Qantas does the right thing

[Ken Borough]

From the Herald-Sun, Melbourne tonight

In his lunchtime address to the Australia-Israel Chamber of Commerce Association, Mr Joyce canvassed many issues and announced that Qantas would resume flights to Europe last night.He said the five days of cancelled services had left about 15,000 Qantas passengers stranded and that 2000 people had been placed in hotels and given meals and access to telephone services at the airline's expense.

Revealing that accommodation costs had run to about $700,000, he said rival carriers would not have offered the same service and most likely would have left people to sleep in airports or find and pay for accommodation.

He said Qantas underwrote the accommodation costs not covered by insurance.

Once again QF has done better than the right thing for some of its customers but one can only speculate if Jetstar would have done the same thing in similar circumstances - sometimes good old Charlie Q can and does surprise and delight. :D:D:D

Alan has set Bruce a difficult and costly precedent should the parasites aka Jetstar venture to Europe.

[donpizmeov]

I am surprised QF management aren't paying themselves a bonus for limiting the cost damage of the whole ash event by their superior judgement of not letting the airline fly to anywhere in Europe.

Their foresight and lack of ambition for the national carrier took some time to pay off, but man can they stand tall now and say I told you so.

To think that after 5 days only 15000 people were stranded by the NATIONAL CARRIER is pitiful. No wonder the like of SQ, EK AND CX frequent as often as they do. EK are taking over 1100 seats per day out of Sydney alone, and just shy of 3300 seats from Australia per day. The demand must be there, why isn't the national carrier going after it?

Rather than being cashed up and looking into buying some foreign airline, shouldn't it be time they attempt to grow the QF business?

The Don

[Capt Kremin]

That was 15000 going to two destinations there Dom. QF did carry people to other parts of the world.

But you are right in that the continual erosion of market share has to be addressed and soon. When I first joined QF we had almost 50% of the market. Now the combined QF/JQ market share is less than half of that.

[skybed]

18% of outbound travel and shrinking. great strategies from the team:yuk:

[rmcdonal]

International travel mostly works on a 1 in 1 out system where if Qantas is allowed to fly out of Aus to the UK then a UK airline must be allowed to fly to Aus with the same number of seats, hence why when V Aus went to the US Delta came back.
These deals are negotiated at a political level where they come up with the seat numbers and these seat numbers need to be shared with every airline based in Aus wanting to compete on the route.

[Timber]

Not so great it seems.....

Cautious Qantas refuses to fly from the UK | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/cautious-qantas-refuses-to-fly/story-e6frfq80-1225856689759)

[ROH111]

It is about .. "QF excellent passenger service"

Did you even read the article you posted timber?
So, SQ, EK and other's are departing... So SQ, EK and other's all jump off a cliff, do you?

I have underlined the bit's you should read buddy.


QUOTE:
" ...consecutive Qantas announcements stating that the airline needed approval from Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) to depart.

Perhaps your snyde remark should have said, "Qantas is being held back by CASA"


"Qantas corporate affairs spokesman David Epstein said UK meteorological services had informed Qantas that a second volcanic cloud might be approaching Heathrow airspace.
Mr Epstein said Qantas operated under CASA policy no matter where it was flying in the world and had to consult the agency first.
"It's a safety first policy ... and it's very frustrating and we stand by it entirely," Mr Epstein said.

Or perhaps you could have said... "Qantas put's safety first, unlike other, profit chasing, ego driven, risk taking airlines in this world."

RANT OVER !

[Timber]

Here is another quote from the spokesman.....

Qantas corporate affairs spokesman David Epstein said UK meteorological services had informed Qantas that a second volcanic cloud might be approaching Heathrow airspace.

Mr Epstein said Qantas operated under CASA policy no matter where it was flying in the world and had to consult the agency first.

"It's a safety first policy...and it's very frustrating and we stand by it entirely," Mr Epstein told AAP.

"Other countries have different regulatory systems and the fact is that we haven't lost a plane in the jet age and other countries have."

Especially the last bit gives a good insight in the mindset of the QF/CASA "axis of overconfidence".

Don't get me wrong, QF is a good airline with a very good record, but in this instance they are just overcooking it a bit.

[rmcdonal]

SQ and EK also have bases halfway there, so if it turns ugly they can just park up in a home port.

[Timber]

Yes, that could certainly be a consideration for flights leaving Australia westbound, where there is a 20+ hour time lapse before "you get there".

It doesn't hold much ground for departures from Europe, and that is what the news paper article is about.

Any long haul airline flies routes that get close to volcano's all the time. Some are burping out ash at regular intervals, some prefer the bigger bangs from time to time and some are sleeping (but might wake up anytime).

After the airspace in the UK was opened there really was very little reason not to get going. I don't know for a fact that CASA was involved, but they shouldn't be in any other capacity than a facilitator. Modern airlines like Qantas, Lufthansa etc. really don't need regulators, and even less politicians to make operational decisions. The State (in this case CASA) should however be required to make any data, information and intelligence available to the operators to help them is assessing risks and planning operations.

To put it different. How can non-AOC-holders, like CASA or the politicians, take operational decisions for AOC holders? They are not competent to make such decisions by virtue of not having an AOC!

[ROH111]

Anyhow, the topic was about how WELL Qantas have treated their passengers in comparison to other airlines.

" accommodation costs had run to about $700,000, he said rival carriers would not have offered the same service and most likely would have left people to sleep in airports or find and pay for accommodation"

I am sure other airlines would need to hurry up and get moving to get passengers to their destinations as they have not provided for them.

Well done to Qantas for doing the right thing in a situation, which is well out of the control of anyone.

[Transition Layer]

I'm still waiting for Jetstar to help out big brother with some supplementary services...and of course the subsequent headline in a media release:

Jetstar successfully commences Europe operations with 100% load factors

:}

[bythenumbers]

Modern airlines like Qantas, Lufthansa etc. really don't need regulators


Ummm... Yes they do actually...

Although since CASA is in Qantas' pocket what difference would it make.

[Old Fella]

Timber, I notice your profile says you have an ATPL. I would have thought that you would understand why Qantas decided to stay put. Any ingestion of volcanic ash will harm not only engines, but also if heavy enough will erode windshield panes, remove paint, clog up air conditioning systems and generally play havoc with the aircraft as a whole. As far as the engines are concerned they do not like having crap left all over the compressors and, worse, the ash turning to glass like deposits on turbines. If Qantas chose to stay on the ground you can be sure they had very good reasons for so doing. I don't know, but I would think that CASA played no role in the decisions made by Qantas despite what was said about "consulting the agency first".

[blueloo]

I am sure pitot systems don't like ash either....

[ozineurope]

From the perspective of someone who is in Europe. Air traffic is only just beggining to return to normal around FRA today. There had been no short haul flights at all except for some repositioning flights by LH and AB. LH only announced this morning CEDST that operations had returned ot normal schedules.

[Flying Spag Monster]

Is it possible you guys are buying your own companies spin? QF missed the starter's gun and are now trying to make it look good. Statements like rival carriers would not have offered the same service and most likely would have left people to sleep in airports. is conjecture. No proof to support this statement but it sounds good. I suspect QF's rivals all provided the same service to their customers but lets not let that ruin a good press release.

[ROH111]

ohh, there's always one.

[donpizmeov]

Think you will find that the EU has ruled a few years ago that all airlines flying to and from the EU must look after pax regardless of the cause of the disruption. This applies to non EU airlines as well. So it would seem that QF were not alone in the duty of care for their pax.

Might as well spin the situation if you can though. Some good press will never go astray.

The Don

[Tankengine]

Just saw the late news. Ryanair gave refunds ONLY!!:yuk:

never ASSUME anything!:E

[Flying Spag Monster]

OK, I take every thing back, my mistake completely. It has been a while since I flew with QF and I didn't realise that one of their "rival carriers" was now Ryanair! How things have changed...

[CabinCrew747]

Spag,

It has been widely reported that Virgin didn't support it's customers, in most cases providing only 1 nights accommodation during the 6 day stoppage. Other carriers including bmi also failed to provide the same care that Qantas did. While it may seem Qantas where 'slower' at getting things moving, remember, Qantas aircraft are likely the furthest from LHR of any of the airlines affected, thus taking them longer then others to resume a full flying schedule.

[bythenumbers]

Qantas aircraft are likely the furthest from LHR of any of the airlines affected

What does their distance from Lockhart River have to do with this conversation? :rolleyes:

[CabinCrew747]

Because people are moaning about QF's 'slow' response including, once again, the Australian media who are widely mocking Qantas' cautiousness along with the fact that their first flight from London 'only' landed this morning. However, since Qantas fly further then most carriers from LHR it is clearly going to take longer to get aircraft to and from London and take longer to get ops back up to speed.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

From the Age website this morning:

Qantas passenger Justin Davis was angry that he could see other planes take off while Qantas's sat on the tarmac.

''I've seen British Airways leaving, Finnair leaving, Nigeria [Airlines] leaving - you name it,'' he said. ''Qantas has no balls and they need to get final approval from CASA to fly out of European airspace. The CAA [Civil Aviation Authority] in Europe has let all the European airlines fly, but Qantas can't make a f---ing decision.''



Bloody Qantas, never reckless when you need them to be......

Also heard a passenger on the radio this morning describing the scence at Heathrow and how the little airlines such as Virgin and BA were having hassles....!

[Old Fella]

I wonder if the passenger quoted in the Age would have preferred Qantas to depart Heathrow earlier and later been forced to divert due ash contamination of engines or systems? They did make a decision, NOT to depart LHR until they were satisfied any chance of encountering volcanic ash had gone. For blooloo, as I mentioned, "the aircraft as a whole".

[Angle of Attack]

What does their distance from Lockhart River have to do with this conversation?

Huh?

Here are the codes for Lockart river
IATA: IRG, ICAO: YLHR

London Heathrow

IATA:LHR, ICAO: EGLL

At least do research before crap is posted please.

[OneDotLow]

At least do research before crap is posted please.

What a catch! Yes he's gott'im!! What - a - catch!!!
:ok:

[7378FE]

Why aren't the QF A380's shuttling between SIN-FRA/LHR and then transferring pax to smaller planes (oops forgot to order those 777's) from SIN to AUS destinations?

They could possibly clear the backlog quicker, are the LAX flights busy at this time of year?

[teresa green]

Bloody amazing, a volcano in Iceland can still lead to a JQ V QF blue. Who knows what JQ might have done, I for one would not have a clue. The real problem is that QF beancounters will be now looking for a way of getting some of it back in the form of perhaps more staff sackings, or more engineering sent to Loose Rivets Pty Ltd, (in wallyworldland) etc etc that should be your main concern. You can bet your last dollar, they will be looking for a way to recoup, as they always have.

[Quokka]

Given the history of volcanic ash clouds and B747s... I think QF made the right decision. Not an easy decision to make to resume flights given the potential consequences of possibly making the wrong decision.

And whilst we're on the subject of customer service... I was pleasantly surprised to see that they compensated the passengers for accommodation, however, this in itself is not sufficient to win me back to QF after a series of simple, relationship-breaking customer service failures.

The straw that broke the camel's back... two trips late last year, one Emirates, one QANTAS.

Emirates... flawless.

QANTAS... fail.

The Emirates Lounge in Perth, one of the best airline lounges I've been in (size definitely doesn't matter) and the most proficient lounge staff I've encountered in the last two years. I watched them handle a passenger in the politest and most effective manner. A passenger who had refused to leave the lounge after rushing in at the last minute before boarding and who's flight had almost completed boarding. You could not have handled a situation like that any better whilst maintaining decorum and respect throughout.

The QANTAS Club...

Well, I watched one gentlemen in a party of three business owners being told... after check-in and after having received a boarding pass and just before boarding that QANTAS had no record of payment being received for the flight and that the gentleman concerned could not board the flight unless he showed them his personal online credit card statement with evidence of the transaction... which he reluctantly but politely did. The passenger got up off his seat and went with the staff member to the Internet terminals whereby the evidence was produced and during which a discussion ensued amongst all of the passengers within earshot of the conversation (including those directly involved) as to whether it was appropriate for QANTAS to ask for personal information (your bank statements) in such a situation... the unanimous answer... unacceptable.

A little while later to top-off an already poor impression...

The departure information displays had indicated that my flight was "Boarding" for an hour before anyone saw any movement by the ground staff to open the door to the air-bridge. When I mentioned it to the woman at the front desk of the QANTAS Club she said "oh, that's normal, they're never correct". When I asked if she would be announcing the flight she said no and that I would have to check at the gate. Eventually there was an announcement that the flight was boarding and as I headed out of the Club and I was reaching to press the button to open the glass door (no-one at the front desk), she appeared from the back of the Club behind me and gave a sarcastic remark about the consequences of missing my flight. I politely said goodbye and when I reached the gate, the queue was so long that I sat down for a couple of minutes until it was short enough to join.

Was the comment by the staff member as I was leaving the Club necessary, I don't think so. Would I have copped a comment like that from Emirates... never.

Some people don't think. When it happens from the same airline again... and again... and again... on almost every flight.

Dear QANTAS,

I appreciate the offer to renew my QANTAS Club membership. Thank you, however, I wish to inform you that I have to decline to renew my membership.

Regards,

Corporate member since the inception of The QANTAS Club.