VFR in jet aircraft

[Cecco]

Hi to all, would have conducted a flight tomorrow from southern Germany to a VFR airport in northern Germany in a citation as PIC. Despite the news that large parts of the airspace should be opened tomorrow, I decided to cancel the trip considering that even if the flight went smooth, it couldn't be 100% excluded at this stage that some damage to the engines might occur, which could possibly not be detected until the next maintenance is done and of course, being aware that flying VFR below FL100 across Germany in a jet is not very sensible (particularly now that Lufthansa and Air Berlin aircraft have joined SEPs and gliders:} ). I would be interested to hear if any bizjet operators have dared/will dare going out there anyway flying VFR?? I assume, of course, that the majority stays on the ground for the same reasons (until flying IFR is permitted again). P.S: PAX will still get there but with a MEP aircraft.

Cecco

[OutsideCAS]

Cecco, some operators are doing it with some success - on another forum i have just suggested that maybe it is worth the UK CAA borescoping the operators that have been flying with some regularity over the duration of the ash plume in order to ascertain if any damage has occurred - this should be a more accurate reflection of long term wear (if any) - and this should re-assure one way or another the true results ??

i apologise if this is slight thread drift.

[what next]

Hi!

...being aware that flying VFR below FL100 across Germany in a jet is not very sensible...

You don't need to stay below FL100 for this kind of flight! You can ask for (and will be granted) clearance to climb through airspace C between FL100 and FL200 and get an IFR pickup there (for some obscure reason, the airspace above FL200 is considered to be ash-free enough for instrument flying). The same procedure in reverse then applies for the descent. I talked with DFS myself a few hours ago.

I was faced with the same decision as you this morning and "delegated" it to my boss, since he is the one who is going to pay for the engine overhaul. Very sensibly, he decided to postpone the flight for a few days.

Regards, max

[lear60fellow]

I did the same with my boss and he understood, it´s not worth risking the aircraft until more info is gathered.

[Daifly]

Hangar 8 seem to be happy to go on record as doing it:

Iceland volcano ash cloud flight risk 'blown out of proportion' airline claims | Metro.co.uk (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/822250-iceland-volcano-ash-cloud-flight-risk-blown-out-of-proportion-airline-claims)

For us it's just proving impossible to ensure continued airworthiness of our aircraft, which is after all the operator's responsibility - the only way we can ensure it is to boroscope after every single flight which would obviously be a logistical nightmare as well as totally impractical. Plus the fact that engine programs aren't going to cover any damage caused by volcanic ash makes it seem difficult to justify both on safety grounds and on commercial ones too.

Add to that the insurers, if God-forbid something happened, would I'm sure be happy to have a discussion in court over the merits of flying when all the airlines (we hold the same licence after all) are grounded and all the advice is to not fly.

Whether it's all been an overreaction is another argument though, but liability-wise, to me at least, it's clear that we shouldn't be flying.

[Opsbeatch]

AOC flight...VFR...

Discuss...

OB :ok:

[Cecco]

@what next...the IFR pick up would make things safer regarding traffic wise and fuel consumption wise but then you would knowingly go through the densest layer of ash (I understand that is between 15´000-20´000 feet from what I have gathered so far)...IFR above FL200 is based on the VAAC forecast chart (SFC-FL200). At least good to hear that others made the same decision!
@opsbeatch...in Germany, you must get a special authorisation by the LBA to operate commercially under VFR (regardless of the weight and type of aircraft). I don´t know, however, how long it takes to get that authorisation.

Regards
Cecco

[Opsbeatch]

True Cecco, I would assume it's not a quick process though.

Good luck to the operator in question if they get away with it but I think they'll be ramp checked a bit more often now...:suspect:

OB

[cldrvr]

We just had what looked like a G5 from a distance depart from MAN VFR.

[Aslak]

No problem with flying VFR with AOC aircraft, provided of course that it is permited and approved in your OM-A.

Also, despite of most likely flying with FMS, you better have VFR charts onboard.
Otherwise not legal.

The ash thing is then altogether another thing. If there is ash, don't fly. If not, go ahead.

We might be facing this for many many weeks in a way or other, so I do not think that grounding the fleet will be the option.

Cheers!