£100,000 plus UK jobs

[cptdivz]

few questions folks- how realistic is it for a pilot at a UK airline to earn a hundred grand or more? how many pilots are there currently employed by uk airlines? 10,000 pilots? And how many of them earn £100,000 plus?

I wanted to know this for a few reasons. Mainly I want to know if their is still earning potential for pilots who fly for British airlines? Look forward to the replies people.

Regards,

CptDivz:ok:

[hollingworthp]

NetJets skippers - depending on how the Euro is doing.

[cptdivz]

i would have thought netjets skippers would be quite high earning. How about Ryanair and easyjet pilots? There must be some high earning skippers there?

Kind Regards,

Ccptdivz:ok:

[hollingworthp]

Try PPJN

Plenty of info on there although some may be out of date

[cptdivz]

i had a look on ppjn but the information seems to be out of date and inaccurate hollingworthp. Plus when I asked for the £100,000 plus wage question- i mean overall including all duty pay ect.

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[Man Flex 37.5]

Easy trainers and long serving captains are on £100 plus.

[SloppyJoe]

A second officer with Cathay earns over GBP100,000 if they get housing. I know not UK and maybe won't be offered again but some airlines still pay a reasonable amount. It is reducing though everywhere, maybe if demand picks up again we will see a rise in T&C's. If my kids wanted to be pilots I would try to convince them otherwise. It is all going downhill.

[redsnail]

Phil, :E (and you're right, if the Euro is strong, the pay's very good)

Throw in the per diems, BUPA and other such benefits, it does go over the £100,000. When you look at our duty days? It's very very good.

easyJet B737 captains, would be very close to the £100,000 mark. (not a line trainer, not a TRE etc)

[cptdivz]

Cheers for the replies people- I am considering the career once i graduate from university however if the money keeps dropping I don't see the point in it. I know people are now going to have a go at me and say '' i'd fly for free or minimum wage''. That's a load of BS in my opinion- pilots should be paid what they deserve. Anyone got any other numbers on how many pilots are employed by UK airlines? How much you would a TRE or TRI for EZY earn for example?
Kind Regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[SloppyJoe]

I can tell you now that if all you want to be is an airline pilot because of the money you should become a doctor or lawyer or anything else. If you love flying then become a pilot, have you ever flown a plane? If you are just looking at it as a money making plan there are far far better options out there that are not so hit and miss. You could be the most skilled pilot that the world has ever seen, passed everything first time with flying colours but still end up broke and without a job. Not the same with most other careers.

[Agaricus bisporus]

EZY pilots on Euro salaries are way over this. Most of those on meagre sterling rates and living in Ripoff Britain are not so fortunate.

A level playing field it is NOT.

[redsnail]

cptdivz
I should add that my salary didn't happen over night. It's taken many many years, many job changes, a continent/hemisphere change to get there. Not to mention a shed load of luck and timing.

I don't have the TRE etc wages for eJ to hand.

[cptdivz]

SloppyJoe cheers for the reply. Obviously I have flown before (and done the medical to make sure I am fit). No one goes into this career for the cash, I could easily make more money in dentistry (if i chose to study it)- but flying is a drug, I would love to do it for a career but if the money does not justify the job I don't think it is worth doing. I read somewhere that there is only 300 pilots in the UK that earn 100k plus- any truth in this?

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[cptdivz]

Cheers for the post redsnail- I understand that your wage didn't happen overnight-if it did I think everyone would want to fly for a living!

Kind regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[hollingworthp]

cptdivz - 300 sounds like rubbish to me.

There must be 150+ (reddo?) uk based NJE captains alone let alone the big metal boys.

[SloppyJoe]

No, that is absolute rubbish, there are 1000's of pilots in the UK on more than 100K a year. The thing that should concern you though is what it will be like in 10-15 years.

[redsnail]

Phil,

Some have shifted to France ;) but yes, there'd be probably close to that. At the moment, quite a few are trying to get back to the UK...

[cptdivz]

Yea I thought they would be more than 300. The wage for the near future is another problem (5-10 years). Pharmacists 10 years ago were paid quite generously and now the average is probably £35k. What comes up must come down surly? On the other hand it could be argued while pilots are still flying passengers around the high responsibility will equal high pay? Just like British Doctors have always maintained a high wage for years on end ( not that I’m comparing doctors to pilots because it’s not possible in my opinion).

Kind regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[hollingworthp]

If money is a key motivator, then don't bother with uni or flying; just go to work in the city and retire by your late 20's.

[MaxReheat]

'there are 1000's of pilots in the UK on more than 100K a year' - true.

There are even more earning much, much less than that and............

there are many hundreds of experienced, unemployed pilots earning zilch.

Just to balance the discussion.

[Watersidewonker]

80k for a SFO at BA dumb enough yo leave his payslip on the Printer

[Knee Trembler]

Take a look at the ever-popular, 'what is your take home salary' thread.

There are certainly many more than 300 pilots earning over GBP 100k pa. But for someone coming in to the industry the outlook is nowhere near as good. 70-80k would be a more reasonable figure now and that after 10-15 years.

Unless you have buckets of cash to spare, I would give flying a wide berth. It is a VERY cruel mistress - but then some people like cruel mistresses ;-).

KT

[BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES]

shhh....there is an election on in the UK. Any sniff of potential 100 grand salaries will involke a Pilot pay super tax by the next chance of the exchechthemoneydownthedrainer.

[BusyB]

Sloppyjoe,
That is rubbish about CX SO salaries even with housing:confused:

[SloppyJoe]

No it is not after two years as an SO. Depends when you got in on the housing.

[Wizzaird]

Cptdivz I think you need a reality check old son. If you are already considering that one of your factors for becoming a pilot is making a shed load of money then you are not the sort of person that will become a career pilot. I don't think I even knew how much I got paid for the first 10 yrs of my flying career, I didn't really care... all I wanted to do was fly. This industry is a rollercoaster of good times and bad times. Unless you have the passion to see it through the bad, you will fall by the wayside. If you really want to fly, don't concern yourself with how much you will earn, just focus on how you are going to get your licence and then a job.. It won't be handed to you on a plate just because you are a University graduate.

[Airbus Girl]

And also with the number of pilots training now and the number of airlines shrinking or merging rather than expanding, I think what you should ask yourself is would you be happy to live on an FO's salary for the next 20 years, after you have paid an extortionate amount for your training? Spend £80k, fly the first year free (or pay to fly, as some airlines have started) or on low initial salary and then gradually it increases each year. You cannot predict when you would get a command and whether you would ever get a TRE/TRI position or line trainer's position. When I started flying a wise old Captain told me to always live on an FOs salary - ie. don't mortgage yourself to the hilt - that way, if anything ever happened and you lost your job (or your command) for any reason, you could work pretty much anywhere and still survive.

[ZBMAN]

EZY pilots on Euro salaries are way over this. Most of those on meagre sterling rates and living in Ripoff Britain are not so fortunate.

A level playing field it is NOT.

And what exactly are you implying?:mad:

[Bruce Wayne]

cptdivz,

if you want the 100k plus salary and have enjoyed buggering about in light aircraft, go to Uni, study law and look at corporate law. you'll make 100k easy on a three day week and be able to afford your own 182 with a glass cockpit and enjoy that a couple of days a week.

The aviation industry is not a career, it's a life commitment.

[OPEN DES]

Dear cptdivz,

Well done on your reasoning. If only more people thought like this we wouldn't have this pay2fly crap and people willing to work for less and less.
The root of the problem in flying is that we (aspiring) pilots are our own worst enemy.
Ofcourse flying is the best job in the world and a lifetime commitment. But at the end of the day it's a JOB and a lifestyle needs to be paid for. There should not be the need to accept unworthy conditions just because you like the job that much.
I don't think you're getting in for the money, even IF many airline jobs were paying 100k+ there are far easier and secure ways to start making that kind of money in other careers.
I can fully understand that you're making a very conscious decision on a once-in-lifetime investment, naturally you'd like to assess your return on investment as well as a future lifestyle (read: money) commensurate with your qualifications and professionalism.
So in short: do not enter this career if you want to make big money. But please do enter if this has been your lifelong dream.

I am 26 now and have made over 100k euro in 2009 as an SFO in Europe. Taxwise a lot more favourable than the UK as well. PLUS some income from other flying related activities outside of the airline. I've got friends my age making 3-4 times this money doing entirely different things in life on which I could easily join in. I love my job however and feel that I am worthily compensated.

Regards

PS: not caring about what you make the first 10 years is something really stupid. It should be top priority once inside of the profession so that you can get rid of your trainingloans ASAP.

[cptdivz]

Cheers for the replies people- no one does flying for the money, it does not make economic sense even if there are huge salaries to be made however the initial investment is too great. Flying is a passion but I do not think I would not be satisfied playing around in a Cesna at the weekends working long shift in an office during the week. I appreciate your reply OPEN DES. I still think young pilots especially P2F ect are ripping themselves and the greater pilot community off. Who wants to live in their 20’s and 30’s living out of a car while friends are putting down deposits on houses/flats?
My opinion is if pilots worried a bit more about what they are getting paid we would not be in this P2F situation and the rest of it. Although as said before pilots are back stabbing, greedy people and will do anything to work and keep out the way of management, which is a shame especially for the younger generation like myself who are seriously considering taking the plunge in the not too distant future.

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[Wizzaird]

OPEN DES

"There should not be the need to accept unworthy conditions just because you like the job that much"

I don't consider that potentially earning less than 100K a year is accepting an "unworthy condition". There are plenty of excellent jobs out there with salaries much less than that. My point is that I would question the motivation of someone who makes a post about earning more than 100K before he has even got his licence. A better question would be to find out if he can make enough money to finance a loan for training. Maybe he doesn't need a loan.. we dont know from the post. When I fly with a FO it is easy to see who is motivated about flying and who is motivated by money/lifestyle. I dont need to tell you who make the better FO's.

[OPEN DES]

Hi

When I fly with a FO it is easy to see who is motivated about flying and who is motivated by money/lifestyle

Well would you agree with me that it would be ideal if you would be equally motivated by both? The former one being the reason you start flying.

When I started off I was very motivated about flying and I still am. But at the end of the day it's a job and we should treat it as such.

Perhaps you're right that a newbie asking about 100k+ salaries seems a bit strange. But still I would argue that potentially investing/wasting 100k+ for training justifies any query!

Do they still call you wizard in IT airspace?

Regards

[cptdivz]

Wizzaird,

I asked the question to find out the potential earnings for a pilot in this day and age. Who would go into a job without knowing what there earning potential would be, only a daft man no matter what the job. Being a commercial pilot is a career not a lifestyle choice. Bills still have to be paid at the end of the month. I have the money for training waiting if needed as a large lump sum was generously left to me in my uncle's will. However there is not a chance in hell I would waste it on pilot training unless I knew I would be happy flying for a living( including getting paid what I deserve in the long run).

Kind regards,

Cptdiv:ok:!

[eagerbeaver1]

Cptdivz - You query about money is justified. It is important to know potential future earnings. I earn about 6k sterling net a month however I must sacrifice an awful lot for that money. I have been flying for ten years now and whilst it has been rewarding I feel that the the job is now seriously affecting my life in a negative manner.

The salary does not compensate enough. If you want to earn in excess of 100k then aviation is not where you need to be.

If you want a totally unique job then flying is a great place to be.

My advice to anyone considering becoming a Pilot is to think very carefully about what you want from life, where do I want to be in ten years, twenty years. By that I mean your life - where do I want my life to be?

My job has afforded me many things that otherwise might have been out of reach.

Good luck, don't rush any decision.

[Wizzaird]

Cptdivz, If I were in your enviable position of being young and presumably able to travel anywhere in the world to start a job I would not go straight into an airline job. Flying a big shiney jet isn't always, I'm afraid, the best flying you will ever get in aviation. I would go to somewhere like Canada/Australia/South Africa/NZ and fly float planes/ ad-hoc charter/meat bombing(skydiving)..anything you can get. You will probably have some of the best flying in your life and will have built up invaluable experience for when you do put your arse in a shiny jet. You will get paid peanuts, but it will have not cost you and arm and a leg to buy your 737 or A320 TR + line trg in the first place. The aviation world is big out there and there are still opportunities for those who are prepared to get out there and bang on the doors! Anyway, enough ranting. Good luck whichever way you choose.

W

[Guff Heron]

EZY pilots on Euro salaries are way over this. Most of those on meagre sterling rates and living in Ripoff Britain are not so fortunate.

A level playing field it is NOT. Agaricus, why the bitterness? It's not our fault the pound is so weak at the moment, and if you earn, live and spend in euroland then it makes no difference.

If it makes you feel better I TOOK HOME 110k euros in the last 12 months. (Easy capt-Italian contract incl 5+ years loyalty bonus). Oh, I'm sorry I guess that won't make you feel better...............

[bananaman2]

Think most Training Captain's on the larger airlines flying Jet Aircraft will be on 100k+ (inc benefits). Likes of BMI, Thomas Cook, BA, Virgin etc. BA defo don't need to be even a Training Captain - all on seniority from what I hear... as mentioned previously an SFO, longhaul with 10-15 years service is going to be on good money.

I was a contractor in Financial Services before piloting. Helped me fund the training but given the lack of piloting jobs about, sometimes I can only but reflect with a slight twinge of regret at what i've left behind - hopefully will all come good soon. The point - definitely more lucrative jobs out there if money is the objective. Anything contract/consultant related is big bucks... IT consultant, Finance Consultant(specialised) can get you anything from £300 - £1000+ per day. Work can be irregular though and sometimes hard work - remember with piloting you may be working 25% the number of hours of other types of job.

[eagerbeaver1]

I wish I worked 25% hours of other jobs, my duty day will be from 7.5 hours to 13 hours (that is check in to check out - not including travelling) I (we) will do 5 days most working weeks, bank holidays and weekends.

If it wasn't for this ash business I will have been up and out the door at 4am every day.

[cptdivz]

Thanks for the comments folks, if anyone else has anything to add that would be great!

Kind regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[bananaman2]

I stand corrected in your case then eagerbeaver1 (apologies).

I do however have mates who work for the likes of BA and Flybe and they do get plenty of time off. 25% was plucked out the air though - emphasing the point that you will be working less hours than most other F/T forms of work, for a start if an annual limit of 900 hours per year? this will bring you in considerably less.

Many ways of looking at it though... all points to consider cptdivz.

[moonym20]

currently I'd do anything just to take home a thousandth of that a week :{

[Max Angle]

Please don't get taken in by the 900 hours a year and the fact that some of your airline friends appear to get a lot of time off. When you factor in anti social hours (time away from home, shift work, night flights, early mornings, late finish etc. etc.) the majority (and there are exceptions) of UK airline pilots don't get any more USEFUL time off than most other full time workers. Quite a lot of my colleagues have found that the only way they can generate a civilised lifestyle is go part time.

[Right Way Up]

I don't know where you lot are going wrong but 900 hours is all I work.

My chauffeur drops me off at the aircraft & I hop in to take over from my flight deck slave who has kindly warmed the old girl up for me.

Although turnrounds are getting shorter my minions sort out the finer details whilst I pop down to the local beach for a bit of R&R with the best looking totty on the flight.

At the end of the day I chuck the old girls key to the nice valet parking chap, & then my chauffeur drives me straight to the nearest champagne party.....

.....or at least that what I dreamt last night.

[cptdivz]

Again thanks for the comments guys and girls. Lifestyle is important in my eyes, enjoying your job is just as important. I understand being an airline pilot and having a decent outside work life are difficult but i'm sure it is possible?

Out of interest how much does a part time BA pilot earn, and how much do they work? How does the whole part time pilot for a british airline system work? I would have thought it would be more difficult to work part time now for a british airline given our current economic climate.

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[eagerbeaver1]

900 hours is the maximum brakes off-brakes on - there is 45 mins duty before, the turnarounds and then thirty mins post flight duties.

This all adds up to give you a total duty hours which must not exceed 1450 (or so I think) hours for a 12 month period. There are then sub-limits defining hours in 7 days/28 days etc etc.

My flying for the past 5 years reads 890hrs,895,900,899,815. I had on average 145 off days.

Part-time? You would be lucky to get a fair part-time contract these days.

As for trying to find a happy medium with your life? Your in the hands of the company you work for - end of.

[kingofkabul]

I think for the hours worked the salary is reasonable. To make £100k+ in other walks of life you are gonna have to work your little balls off!

I live with a corporate lawyer - he is almost always in the office from 9am to midnight , every night. He says the work is fairly dull and incredibly hard work, with constant deadline pressure. He's on no way near £100k, but should be in a few years if he keeps up the efforts.

Another friend is an investment banker (IBD - M&A). I haven't seen him in 5 months, as every weekend he is in the office, averaging 90 hours a week. I kid you not he had to fight to get Christmas Eve and Christmas day off. Was straight back in on Boxing day.

It's never going to be easy to make that sort of money, in flying it seems like you need a lot of luck and patience, but please don't make the mistake of thinking it's a walk in the park outside of aviation! Remember also that there are plenty of failed bankers, barristers, consultants and lawyers who never qualify out there - money is not guaranteed. I think one of the few exceptions to this is trading - they rake it in!

....Just trying to strike some balance

[hollingworthp]

If you don't suffer from metal-envy, then bizav can be a very comfortable lifestyle.

We fly c350hrs per year for similar money to the guys bashing out the legal limit. Very stable roster (soon to be published 2 months rather than 1 in advance we are promissed) with 6/5 or 7/6 and when you are on an off day the company will not call you. Free type ratings - which looks to be a rare thing these days. Max 50 duty days per quarter. Almost airline-like SOP's which are constantly improving. We get to fly to a huge variety of airfields / approaches and none of this autoland cheating!

[HundredPercentPlease]

for a start if an annual limit of 900 hours per year?

According to my logbook, I do about 1600 duty hours a year, out of a maximum of 1880. On to that add about 380 hours commuting / turning up early.

[plain-plane]

All my friends make well above 100K (normal line Cpts:ok:)… however;
The Fos we fly with most likely never will –
and you surely never will -
such is the business right now…. sadly :{

[eagerbeaver1]

Hundred percent please.

Story for us all, if I don't turn up at least 15 mins early then you don't have time to get paperwork done and get out to aircraft in good time.


I reckon my p60 will say 90k max.


kingofkabul

Your pals work in an office. Big difference. I find it sad that they need to put so many hours in, must be extremely draining.

[cptdivz]

hello there folks,

Hollingworthp I have considered literally all forms of flying from meat bombing to bush flying - however never really gave Bizav any real consideration. I think I am going to heavily research that now and see if is appealing. Cheers for the eye opener dude!

Kind Regards,

Cptdiv:ok:!

[Kiltie]

Autoland cheating? Do you perform manual landings in CAT III LVPs in "bizav"?

[hollingworthp]

No - but I do hear the panic in the voice of the Boeing and Airbus chaps when ATC offer a visual approach

[Guzzler]

No - but I do hear the panic in the voice of the Boeing and Airbus chaps when ATC offer a visual approach


Don't tar us all with the same brush!

I don't think it would be easy to top the variety of a good charter job in the UK. Newquay, Gatwick and Birmingham one day. Helsinki, and Goa the next. 10 minute sector one day. 13 hours the next. Busy international hubs right down to a little Greek Island.

And most of the Captains will have a 6 figure total on their March payslip. (End of financial year.)

[clanger32]

oh dear, oh dear...."sense of humour for a 'Kiltie'?"

[hollingworthp]

Sorry - no brush use intended and sweeping generalisations are not my usual style.

To be fair - being limited to Cat 1 (speaking only for my own company rather than the whole BizAv industry) can certainly be frustrating.

But we do seemingly get more scope for hands-on flying (when ferrying) and it is refreshing to be able to disconnect the autopilot from time to time - especially in the run up to a recurrent :)

[stansdead]

Airbus Girl.

With the current predilection for pay to fly, the old adage of living on an FO's wage is now a load of tosh.

How can you suggest anyone live on nothing potentially?:eek:

In the old days, good advice. In today's day and age, I'd suggest making sure that you can up sticks at short notice and move to where the jobs are if needed to.

One thing is certain, there are going to be few UK jobs for a while......:{

[Kiltie]

Hollingworth I don't know where you have been flying but I've never heard a Boeing or Airbus pilot panicking when they are offered a visual approach. And we certainly often choose to fly non-autopilot approaches. Come and see it from our side one day, or have you already been there and had a bad experience?......:)

[Beafis]

KLM widebody Captains with some years in service earn up to 249 000 Euro's ( = 216 580 GBP ).... With around 3 flight a month many choose to live outside the Netherland ( due to tax, weather, etc). We even have guys living in Canada and Australia....

[cptdivz]

Beafis,

Your comment is quite interesting I never really considered KLM/Air France/ Lufthansa as I cannot speak any of their national languages (only speak English and Hindi/ Gujarati). Beafis, is there any British pilots flying for KLM? Do they speak Dutch fluently? Do they commute from the UK?

Kind Regards,

Cptdivz:ok:!

[Beafis]

Sorry.. No chance! Currently no job openings. Normally they only hire Dutch and Belgium nationals from their own Flight training program ( KLS ).

If this school can not provide enough student they normally hire from the MLD/KLU ( Dutch Marine and Airforce Pilots ) and experienced ex students from NLS ( CAE Flightschool in the Netherlands ).

Some British guys came into the company with the merger of Air uk into KLM Cityhopper..

Good luck finding your 100 K job!

[dynamite dean]

Not as rare as you think although becoming more so (!) Partly why the reason why I have stayed where I am on a light jet as my earning potential at present is far more than someone joining an airline on big metal. Id love to do that if the opportunity presented itself thats for sure not sure I would want the large pay drop:cool: and just happy despite my own issues ; I'm happy to get paid a decent salary right now ; who knows when hopefully it all picks up time to revisit that ambition.

[fastidious bob]

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Just what is a big salary? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8151355.stm)

[deeceethree]

Watersidewonker's post #21, from earlier in this thread:

80k for a SFO at BA dumb enough yo leave his payslip on the PrinterAt least a BA SFO earns his pay, which is more than one can say for the likes of certain troublemakers. Who is the dumb one now? :rolleyes:

[brit bus driver]

Now, now ladies....the thread for CC bashing is in another forum....I wonder if Mr Wonker still has a job? Of course, if he's a CSD I guess 80k is just loose change....(back in your box Driver, don't bait the natives...)

:ok: