Thomson drops to new levels

[Gibblets]

Thomson is offering contracts to Canadian pilots (the recently laid off ex Skyservice guys) to start May 1st flying G registered, Thomson AOC A320s here in Europe to cover the loss of those Skyservice pilots WHILE some of the 90 odd pilots they recently served notice to in their own airline are still working said notice (a few are even A320 current). Either I am missing something or it is simply cheaper to payoff the few unfair dismissal claims from those without a new job against the losses that will be incurred with no reciprocal agreement with a (new) Canadian company (I am rather hoping it's the latter).
And while I am here any new pilots just starting out who wish to pay BALPA a monthly fee (if their 6 month contracts allow them to afford it), just take the cash and flush it down the toilet. It will amount to the same thing.

[Marvo]

Gibblets, Surley Thomson cannot make guys redundant, then in the same breath take on contractors! I heard that the BALPA reps at TFly only made matters worse but this is crazy! Good Luck...

[Gibblets]

It's happening. And BALPA has agreed to it.

[stansdead]

I mean this is just outrageous.

Why only offer jobs to Canadians? There's loads of qualified Europeans, or even British A320 pilots looking to stab someone in the back for work.......:mad:

Thomson Airways, hang your heads in shame.

[PropellHer]

I back up Gibblets, it is true. I too would like to hear Thomsons justification for this. If they have current A320 pilots available who are still employed and serving their notice for redundancy how the hell can they employ Canadian pilots to work contracts on the A320!!!!!!!!! Someone tell me how this can happen????:mad:

[captjns]

Not to roil the pot any more than it is... with the number of pilots redundant in the UK let along within the EU, would the UK issue work visas to the Canadian pilots?

[Airbus Girl]

Allegedly its because Thomson want to keep the reciprocal agreement that involves its UK pilots going to Canada for the winter to fly the Canadian programme. Apparently if the Canadians don't come here, the UK pilots can't go there. More UK pilots go to Canada than Canadian pilots coming here, and without the Canadian contract this would mean that Thomson would make more UK pilots redundant. Apparently.

[PropellHer]

My question is....surely the so called reciprocal agreement was dead in the water as soon as the company involved in Canada went bankrupt? Aren't they making this up as they go along? I would love to know what an employment lawyer would make of that as their arguement!

[Wingswinger]

Why don't you ask an employment lawyer through BALPA. It's what we pay subscriptions for.

[PropellHer]

I am answering on behalf of someone else here....they have tried. BALPA are not returning their calls or emails. And BALPA have allegedly supported Thomson's actions.........

[simufly]

Its the big picture dont yer know

[Gibblets]

I think you may be right Airbus Girl but that doesn't justify the situation for the guys on notice at Thomson.
And I can confirm BALPA have co-signed the agreement from what I hear. Are they in bed with the management or something?!

[frozenpilot]

I too am a redundant Pilot from Thomson, and support what the other guys have said.

While BALPA may have their hands tied on this occasion as the Management will take any excuse to force people out due to the summer/winter imbalance. I think the biggest problem is in a round about way the presedence is being set for summer contractors and it is apparent Management see this as the future ( and yet another career Airline down the drain..).

The union in Thomson have let down all junior F/O's with the lack of a right to return, keeping all Captains in their ranks, and now with little communication about how the union will help us redundant Pilot's back in to the company, I find myself asking where has my £40 per month got me and come the 30th April I will be gone and forgotten.

[First.officer]

Sounds like a dire situation.........still, i guess at least Thomson can still send more UK pilots out in winter 2010 to Canada to fly non-existent aircraft for a now defunct carrier......highly profitable and sure to safeguard those 50 jobs at risk without the tie-in !!!!

[stansdead]

There are no MP's in UK until after 6th May, when we have a General Election.

Parliament has been dissolved.

That's the way it is....

[frozenpilot]

EGCC,

Yes you can ask and yes I have spoke to RM, who I have a great deal of respect for, and I am not persecuting BALPA, but they have done very little to help a junior F/O, unless you count those who have been offered a six month extension to their contract.

Looking at recent events: snow, ash, SSV and the impact they have had on the business etc you would expect a robust CC to be using this as an opportunity to gain back an advantage against a ruthless management, who quoted during the consultation 'we will not base our pilot establishment on assumptions'. Unfortunately this is not the case, and while to some extent compromise is necessary, to gain no ground is playing into the managements hands for future attacks. I agree with your comments re: right of return, however to be told you can leave your contact details, shows little regards for the efforts I have put into the company.

I genuinely believe right seat checking Captains gives the company greater flexibility, needing fewer F/o's for the quiet winter period as Captains will fill their shoes, which will delay the need to recruit full time First Officers, which is poor.

BALPA told us during the consultation period they were in negotiations, so what place does a 'shot gun to the head' have in a negotiation . . . . .

[Gibblets]

EGCC. You're a marketing mans dream.

[Airbus Girl]

I really cannot start to know how you guys made redundant feel, other than to say I have been at the bottom of the list and under threat of redundancy previously.

The reciprocal agreement in Canada is to do with the Canadian authorities I believe (only from what I have read on the various sites etc.) and therefore the new plan is to send Thomson pilots to Canada this winter to support the new Canadian company. However, the Canadian authorities wouldn't agree to that if Canadian pilots were denied the right to come here this summer. If Thomson can't send their pilots over there this winter then those pilots are effectively surplus, and Thomson will reduce its permanent ranks by the same number - thus more redundancies.

As for the right to return, well, I believe its TUI and the Thomson directors/ managers that run the show, and as John Murphy (DFO) stated in his "roadshows" this winter, he doesn't want right to return therefore it won't happen. What are BALPA meant to do? They can make the point, but I doubt the current workforce would strike to try and force the company to change its policy, especially in the current climate. BALPA are not our employer!

Surely the anger should be aimed squarely at the Thomson Airways management team shouldn't it?

[EGCC4284]

Airbus Girl, spot on

I was told by RM on the phone this week that had it been blocked, 3 more airframes would have gone and another 50-70 on top of the 120 would of been axed.

Its a very bitter pill to swallow but thats life.

People should get their info correct before posting here.

Edited for correction of spelling and grammar as pointed out.

[frozenpilot]

''People should get there info correct before posting here.''

Care to qualify that statement?

[stansdead]

Are you illiterate?

"3 more airframes would of gone" - should read would have;

"swollow" (swallow) and;

"get there info correct " - should read "their".

Whilst dispensing information, and sounding self important, it is generally better if you can spell basic words correctly.

As for why that lovely fellow JM would not want right of return....well, your contracts are too expensive. Here comes a dose of reality for the old guard from Britannia and Air2000..........

In the meantime, use spellchecker to avoid looking like a cretin.:=

[beardy]

I'm so glad somebody else said that. I had great difficulty understanding wot wuz bein sed.

I know you can't get the staff nowadays, but...

[OX51QG]

For the benefit of Stansdead or anyone else who doesn't work for TOM, doesn't know or chooses to ignore the facts of the situation, here they are:

- Yes, TOM is making redundancies. These have been bargained downwards somewhat, however these positions are permanently surplus to requirement and no employer these days will allow this situation to persist for too long. Many, including EGCC, have had their paths smoothed into Qatar Airways through the efforts of BALPA & the TOM management, never the less there is bitterness out there at what's happened, which may explain the half truths and misinterpretations demonstrated on this thread.

- TOM operates an exchange of airframes and aircrew with Canadian partners, which primarily exist to provide lift capacity to TUI's Canadian tour operation.

- Without this exchange, 3-4 airframes would be lost from the TOM fleet, with resultant further redundancies. EGCC is entirely correct here. Please forgive him for his spelling and grammar. This is because the extra revenue achieved is assigned to airframes that wouldn't be economically viable otherwise.

- Skyservice, TOM's previous Canadian partner went bankrupt, so TOM has signed a deal to continue the exchange with Sunwings, which coincidentally TUI has just made a major investment in. The fact the exchange with another Canadian airline is irrelevant:

- To allow this exchange to go ahead, the Canadian authorities insist it's two way street, i.e. Canadian pilots into Europe. The exchange is allowed on an EU wide basis (i.e. NOT on a company by company), which many are unaware of and explains some of the misunderstandings demonstrated on this thread. From the Canadian authorities point of view, whether the Canadian pilots hail from Skyservice, Sunwings or any other Canadian airline is irrelevant, likewise which EU airline or even which EU country the go to.

- Because of the sensitivities surrounding the unexpected change in circumstances surrounding the exchange, the company agreed to extend the exit date for 12 of the redundant pilots by 6 months. Their terms and conditions are otherwise as before.

- Those made redundant don't have an automatic right of return, although they have the right to be interviewed ahead of other pilots. In practical terms, an automatic right of return is a non-starter. Is the company to invite back some who's just taken them to an employment tribal? What if the pilot isn't available in the required time frame? Assuming they haven't blacked their copy book by behaving like a prat, robbing banks or put a 757 on it's back, they can expect a job offer at some point in the future. It's likely to be some time before TOM does any rehiring, so it's unfortunately the case there's no rush to sort out the details surrounding rehiring pilots.Rather than being bitter on internet bulletin boards, the redundant pilots would be better served by searching out alternative employment. TOM is likely to be like Britannia in the old days, i.e. a case of dead man's shoes when it comes to pilot hiring.

- The TOM MoA contains a scope clause (of sorts), which states that unless otherwise agreed, only those on the seniority list will fly TOM aircraft. Although JM would dearly like to have carte blanche to have summer only contract pilots (perhaps fixed term contracts for all pilots), he will have to breach the collective labour agreement of the 850 remaining pilots to do this, and he knows all bets would be off if he did that.

Whilst no doubt someone will pop up to rubbish my words, I've presented the facts as objectively as I can.

[Airbus Girl]

Wow. And they say women are bitchy :p

[EGCC4284]

OX51QG

Thank you for taking the time to post the facts regarding Thomson.

EGCC4284

[Boeingmann]

Thank you OX51QG for your clear post.:D