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Critical Reynolds No
15th Apr 2010, 12:21
Was poking around and found this:
ATMOSS - Australian Trade Mark Online Search System (http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_details.show_tm_details?p_tm_number=1216747&p_search_no=1&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED&p_rec_no=119&p_rec_all=141)

Any ideas?

Kanga1
15th Apr 2010, 13:30
My guess is that this will be the new name for Pacific Blue

http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/tmimages/cgi-bin/get_tmi_image.pl?list=1211970.1&resolution=thumb

The V in the logo is very similar to the V australia V, but has the 4 'Five Point' stars from the NZ flag incorporated into it.

I can also see Virgin Blue becoming V australia :)

PBN
16th Apr 2010, 00:15
This was mentioned earlier http://http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/401267-vbulletin-restructure.html?highlight=vb+restructure (http://http//www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/401267-vbulletin-restructure.html?highlight=vb+restructure)

I believe HR are in NZ at the moment looking at a restructure. I heard some will be made deputy to VB or VA equivalent. Some will probably go. No surprise really, how can they compete with J* domestically whilst trying to maintain a NZ AOC, a big flash office in NZCH, and all the admin staff and blackberry phones that go along with it.

Simple really, re-brand it, paint VH on the tail, cancel NZ AOC, then you wont need 80 or so management and admin to run it, now your in the competition with J*.

Ultimately Vpacific with a common livery to VA makes good economic sense. The PB name is only known in NZ, ask the average Australian about PB and they wouldn't know who or what your are talking about. I don't think the VA name would work domestically in NZ, unfortunately the average kiwi takes the rugby rivalry a little to seriously. Finally the new aircraft order just announced will no doubt be a good time to change the brand............... Overall I think this is a good move, I wouldn't mind betting that this will be JB first move aligning 4 Brands to one or two. Who knows VB may get a rename as well. I believe the 10 year lease on VB is over in a month or two.

windytown
17th Apr 2010, 10:25
Interesting and thanks for sharing.

I have recently seen V Aust adverts on Wellington buses (very much branding type adverts rather than the normal PAc Blue route orientated adverts). Given the limited connections Wgn has to V Aust flights, this fits together very plausibly.

Within NZ I have heard many people refer to Pac Blue as Virgin and overall I get the impression the Pac Blue brand names isn't that strong even in NZ.

AirNZ charging $30 for the meals (ie premium for Works and yes I know it includes a movie) makes Pac Blues but on board menu look good value.

Interesting suggestion on the shift to an Aust AOC.

porch monkey
18th Apr 2010, 07:09
Well, I'm sure they'd love to have oz AOC/OZ bases, cause then they can take over the DPS/HKT stuff from VB. Cause of course we're too expensive........ Where have I heard that before????

neville_nobody
18th Apr 2010, 22:27
Well, I'm sure they'd love to have oz AOC/OZ bases

That's no longer required thanks to the Trans Tasman aviation agreement. Pac Bro could even come and operate domestically in Australia if they so desired.

Chocks Away
20th Apr 2010, 10:38
PacBro have had an Aust AOC for some time, as that's how they're able to service all the Pacific Islands ex-Australia.
As per Nevilles' info above, that merges the two into one sphere of operation between NZ and Aust but is still req'd for the Sth-West Pacific & Asian Ops.
...then they can take over the DPS/HKT stuff from VB.... That was all off the PB (Aust) AoC anyway, on wet-lease. VB also got an International Aoc, early in the piece, for the Malaysia/Indo/PNG areas, as opposed to their previous Charter licence they had back during the Indonesian Tsunami.
(Airwork and Jetcon both operate domestically through Aust with their freight ops too?). That's my understanding anyway :)
Rest assured though that a 'Bro Oz base is a long way off on their current terms & conditions, considering their poor exchange rate outbound!

neville_nobody
20th Apr 2010, 11:48
So how do they operate ZK regos under a NZ Check and Training system on a Australian AOC? I didn't think that was possible?? Do CASA also audit them as well?? I was of the understanding that was the whole purpose of the agreement was to allow Airlines to operate domestically in each other countries without having to go and get a separate AOC.

Chocks Away
20th Apr 2010, 20:35
Yes, that's part of the purpose as I understand it too.
PB I guess have had no need (or enuf staff:}) to operate domestically in Aust. There's a difference between domestic Aust ops and International Aust ops approvals, as stated on an AoC, apart from the Trans Tasman set up now. P-bro's (and Poly's) is International ex Aust.
Maybe someone there could elaborate further on the fragmented AOC's of the VB family?

Jet Man
20th Apr 2010, 21:26
As I understand it PB has both NZ and Aus AOCs with both line pilots and C&T pilots qualified for both. The six monthly checks meet the requirements of both regimes.

neville_nobody
21st Apr 2010, 00:16
I'm sure that's all set up for a rainy day if the need arises.

Oakape
21st Apr 2010, 03:57
The ulterior motive may have been to set it up for a rainy day - who knows what goes on in the minds of senior management.

However, the the main objective was to allow PB to use a Virgin aircraft (on the Oz register) while one of theirs was in maintenance, without the hassles, time & expense of changing it to the NZ register.

I guess they could have wet leased the Oz aircraft, but I believe that VB were short of crews at the time this came about.

As I understand it PB has both NZ and Aus AOCs with both line pilots and C&T pilots qualified for both. The six monthly checks meet the requirements of both regimes. Jet Man, you are correct & the pilots hold both licences.

rescue 1
21st Apr 2010, 07:16
The ulterior motive may have been to set it up for a rainy day
No - management aren't that bright.
If only I could tell you what I know
NeedABiggerHammer - go on...tell us. This is a rumour site afterall :ok:

Capt_CheeseDick
21st Apr 2010, 08:53
...let's just say it's time the VB/PB/Poly/V flight crew all got together under ONE umbrella for the good of all crew & conditions. You can see it a mile away, just like QF have done for years with their "staff".
This is even more critical now, with the shortage of experience already evident in large sections of the globe as majors ramp up rapidly (just comb the crew-sourcing websites!) ...such experience & skills (management of a multi million $kit plus lives onboard) has a high value and needs to be finally reflected in T&C's.

neville_nobody
21st Apr 2010, 09:20
The problem there is that Australians will never be competitive with NZ wages. It is unrealistic to expect Pac Blue wages to go up to Australian levels. And there lies the issue. If VB crew are not willing to take pay cuts to compete with the Pac Blue operating cost they will just start setting up Pac Blue bases around Australia on NZ conditions. It already happens in many other industries, aviation is really dragging the chain in comparison.

I guess the other option is to dissolve Virgin Blue and make it VAustralia and rewrite the contracts but not to sure how legal all that is.

Dehavillanddriver
21st Apr 2010, 09:23
Chocks away - sorry but you are mistaken.

All the wet lease stuff is done on the VB AOC.

bowing
21st Apr 2010, 12:13
will there be SYD bases for Pb? I know BNE base is a work in progress and may need alot of it if VB crew have a say abou:=t this

slice
21st Apr 2010, 12:27
rescue 1 - needbiggerbollocks has posted lots of 'rumours on this site before - the problem is that they have all been utter tosh!

Ahhh yeah A380s arriving next month and ummm everything rebranded VirginPussy

SilverSleuth
21st Apr 2010, 12:52
Ok a few things.....
If VB management could set up a PB OZ base they would. Don't doubt it. They have canvased the idea plenty of times in the past. The BIG problem with PB in NZ and OZ, is the conditions. It has been from day one. While people do accept NZ PB conditions, as soon as the market picks up, there is a race for guys to leave to go to better paying jobs. (to VB including) That is why Vb has had 2 secondments in the last 6 years when PB didn't have enough drivers for Aircraft. That will always be the case as well. The other BIG problem VB would have setting up PB bases in Oz is the anger it would create amongst VB drivers. Some might say that is Irrelevant however with nearly 1000 pilots now, it really is not that simple, especially with regular EBA's. As for dissolving VB for a VA style contract situation, that s not legal under federal IR laws. I am sure they would do that also if allowed.

SilverSleuth
21st Apr 2010, 12:56
PS, the only integration there will be is POSSIBLY one branding. Companies will stay separate as such, CONDITIONS will stay separate also.

PBN
21st Apr 2010, 20:54
Neville Nobody, I'm almost cretin that employment in Australia under a different countries employment laws is illegal. No super, taxed elsewhere.........................and would ultimately become a burden on the AU tax system. I'd put money on it that if a loophole was opened, the pollies/ATO and other bureaucracies would make a VERY BIG deal out of it. VB are not that stupid when it comes to PR.

Chocks Away
22nd Apr 2010, 13:02
Dehav.driver: Yes, copied your reply from my:
"That was all off the PB (Aust) AoC anyway, on wet-lease. VB also got an International Aoc, early in the piece, for the Malaysia/Indo/PNG"

Timing is everything.
I won't go into it right now as things are very fluid... standby 1 !

inandout
28th Apr 2010, 06:35
:\ Hell not VB and NZ. :eek:

7378FE
28th Apr 2010, 07:49
There are ASX releases from both DJ & NZ out regarding a possible commercial agreement with Air New Zealand. :E

slamer.
28th Apr 2010, 08:29
Market Announcement

Type:GENERAL

Air New Zealand response to media speculation
Air New Zealand today became aware of media speculation that it is in discussions with Virgin Blue regarding a potential trans-Tasman alliance.

Air New Zealand confirms that the airlines have been in ongoing discussions for several months but no agreement has been reached.

Air New Zealand will not comment further on speculation related to these discussions but will advise markets as required if an agreement is concluded.
Related Attachments

http://static.nzx.com/images/pdf.gif Air NZ response to media speculation.pdf 86 KB (http://file.nzx.com/000/003/3634003.pdf)
Related Attachments are available on nzx.com for three months beyond their re lease date. NZX offer professional products for searching historic company announcements. Please email [email protected] ([email protected]) for a free trial.



http://static.nzx.com/images/virtualTrading.gif

rescue 1
28th Apr 2010, 10:06
Good luck with that.

The QF/NZ alliance was knocked back - nothing material has changed with regards competition? Will it get up?

Cypher
28th Apr 2010, 13:36
An alliance will never happen with Air NZ, because apparently Pac Blue was supposed to go bust ages ago.. don't you read your PPrune....

bowing
28th Apr 2010, 14:18
.....until poly blue came along and saved the day...akl-apw-syd vice versa and bne-apw-bne now....:D

Cactusjack
1st May 2010, 11:15
NeedAbiggerHammer
If only I could tell you what I know - Seriously though I would be looking for another job if I let the proverbial out of the bag but it's gonna be HUGE http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Your posts already 'tell us what you know' - You are full of crap !
Have fun friday night,all the lads know that you will be the first one buying BG drinks. Kiss kiss.

7378FE
3rd May 2010, 08:24
Virgin Blue & Air New Zealand have both applied to the respective authorities for a broad codeshare on the Tasman routes (excl PolyBlue)
combined with FF earning / redemption and Lounge access for their members.

Broad code share means that an trip from Karratha to Nelson could be booked on all DJ codes or all NZ codes.

This is only the start, something much bigger is about to happen (as NeedABiggerHammer has alluded to) stay tuned. :ok:

I could spill the beans here and I would not lose my job, but I may lose some privileges DJ bestow upon me and my ilk, so it is best not to bite the hand that feeds you. :ok:

7378FE

slice
3rd May 2010, 09:45
More bollocks and hot air from the village!!:}:8 Whooohooo!!! Way Coool!!:E Yeah far out man!!:O Rock on dude!!:8:Ohh Yeah funkytown!!:\:8 Bret you're so the man!!:}

slamer.
3rd May 2010, 18:25
4:00 AM Tuesday May 4, 2010

A partnership between Air New Zealand and Australian airline Virgin Blue that could result in up to 80 more flights across the Tasman each week is unlikely to deliver cheaper fares, aviation experts say.
The airlines yesterday revealed plans for a code-sharing alliance that, if accepted by New Zealand's Ministry of Transport and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, will see passengers share aircraft between the two
countries and on domestic connecting flights.

Air NZ chief Rob Fyfe said last night the airline's 130 flights a week across the Tasman would increase to 210, which would be more evenly distributed throughout the week.
Virgin Blue would operate 70 of the flights but passengers would travel on Air NZ tickets.
Meals, baggage allowances, fare classes and aircraft would be "aligned" for passengers, who would be able to use each airline's airpoints and airport lounges.
"[Virgin Blue] haven't announced the detail yet but they've announced they're going to roll out an Airline of the Future product and we know that that is going to be very, very similar to what our product offering is," said Mr Fyfe.
"Our belief, and what our alliance agreement requires, is that Virgin's product offering and our product offering are aligned. "If you don't have product alignment it's really hard to make these sorts of alliances work."
Mr Fyfe said the average price of the cheapest fares to Australia would probably stay about the same but it was possible more expensive flights would be at least 10 per cent cheaper.
He said the airline had struggled to make money from the Tasman market and he hoped the move would see an increase in passengers from competitor airlines.
"You either keep reducing [services] until you cease to exist or you find another way to strengthen your position, and the best way to do that is to find a partner to work with.
"Our view is if we don't do this then we'll end up becoming a smaller and smaller player on the Tasman and we won't have any other choices."
Experts contacted yesterday agreed. Brent Thomas, retail director for House of Travel said the alliance appeared to be a great move which would make the highly-competitive Tasman route more sustainable.
It would open up opportunities for tourists to get connecting flights to less-travelled locations in both countries, which would be good for tourism.
Aviation commentator Peter Clark said he was confident the alliance would go ahead.

Air NZ was knocked back in its bid to code-share with Qantas in 2006 because of fears the move would stop competition.
But Mr Clark said the proposed alliance was different because there was no money changing hands. Consumers would benefit because of increased flight options but he doubted it would lead to cheaper fares.
A Commerce Commission spokeswoman said the agency would assess issues relating to competition.
A Ministry of Transport spokeswoman said an official application from Air NZ and Virgin Blue had not been received yesterday.
"Once the ministry has received an application, the next step will be to confirm the details of the process we will follow, including time-frames and opportunities for stakeholders and other interested parties to make their views known."
Reviews of the application for the code-share, which Mr Fyfe said was being lodged last night, are expected to take six months and services are not expected to begin before Mar

The Green Goblin
5th May 2010, 00:21
excuse my ignorance but how does that work with A/NZ being a full service airline and VB not?

I would be mighty pissed if I booked with A/NZ and was put on a VB flight paying for meals and entertainment. Perhaps VB are about to become a full service carrier?

grrowler
5th May 2010, 01:49
GG,

Meals, baggage allowances, fare classes and aircraft would be "aligned" for passengers, who would be able to use each airline's airpoints and airport lounges.
"[Virgin Blue] haven't announced the detail yet but they've announced they're going to roll out an Airline of the Future product and we know that that is going to be very, very similar to what our product offering is," said Mr Fyfe. Sounds like some type of full service is on the cards.

assymetric
7th May 2010, 17:20
It may become full service for the pax, but for the crew it will remain low cost. (I hope I am wrong)

neville_nobody
7th May 2010, 23:26
It may become full service for the pax, but for the crew it will remain low cost

Are you serious?? VB crew get paid more that all the kiwi carriers, Jetstar and Voz....

I'm almost cretin that employment in Australia under a different countries employment laws is illegal. No super, taxed elsewhere.

Well Pac Blue are throwing up the idea of a BNE base and mining/oil companies already employ on foreign contracts. What happens is that you are based in Australia but employed overseas.

cavemanzk
8th May 2010, 09:08
excuse my ignorance but how does that work with A/NZ being a full service airline and VB not?New Tasman and Pacific Service - On the Plane - Economy - AirNewZealand - New Zealand Site (http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/new-tasman-and-pacific-service)

Because NZ is changeing its PI/TT services to be run like a LCC, base fares no longer include free meals & bags!

puff
8th May 2010, 10:41
Not sure how it works the other way but remember that Jetstar have had CHC based pilots on Aussie conditions/pay/super. New hires in CHC are now in NZ contracts though

dueweno
9th May 2010, 06:13
Airwork, Pioneer, Vincent? doesnt seem too hard

assymetric
9th May 2010, 16:15
Not sure how the Airwork, Pioneer and Vincent contracts are set up, I was under the impression airwork freight contracts were under aussie law. The other two might be on short term rotations which is very different to creating a base in Aus.

Anyone in the know may be able to shed some light.

Chocks Away
23rd May 2010, 13:43
Court case over NZ pay levels. (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/qantas-to-face-court-over-nz-pay-levels/story-e6frg6nf-1225869803925?from=public_rss)
and from over there: Recent pay parity to match Aust. (http://www.3news.co.nz/Oil-riggers-on-par-with-Aussie-counterparts/tabid/367/articleID/156202/Default.aspx)

Chocks Away
31st May 2010, 22:24
:eek: Wow. That stopped this thread right in it's tracks!
Thousands more have read it... but not a word in reply.