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BOAC
13th Apr 2010, 08:43
By all accounts (Google) there is no option to connect to a LAN in Safe Mode, which is a shame since it would enable another weapon in virus cleansing. Mine does not 'see' the LAN adapter in Safe. What exactly IS "Safe Mode with Network" and what can I use it for?

Saab Dastard
13th Apr 2010, 13:20
From MS:

Safe Mode with Networking (SAFEBOOT_OPTION=Network): This option uses a minimal set of device drivers and services to start Windows together with the drivers that you must have to load networking.

SD

BOAC
13th Apr 2010, 13:30
That's where I fall into the ignorance pit! What exactly does that mean? How will I connect to a 'network' if my LAN is not seen? What is 'load networking'?

Bushfiva
13th Apr 2010, 13:41
Wired LAN only.

BOAC
13th Apr 2010, 17:54
If by that you mean RJ45 to router, that is what I have. NVidia Nforce 10./100 Ethernet. Not there!

Saab Dastard
13th Apr 2010, 20:53
Works for me.

What doesn't work for you?

SD

BOAC
13th Apr 2010, 22:24
Well, like I said, my ethernet card just ain't there!

DG101
13th Apr 2010, 23:11
BOAC

Try disconnecting or unplugging your router before booting XP in Safe Mode.

No guarantee, but I had a similar problem that was solved by connecting to the router after the PC had completed the full boot up sequence.

BOAC
14th Apr 2010, 07:18
Thanks DG - will try later today.

Saab Dastard
14th Apr 2010, 09:25
BOAC, do you mean that the NIC drivers aren't loaded or that the IP stack isn't loaded or that it hasn't got an IP address configuration?

SD

BOAC
14th Apr 2010, 10:23
I just wish I knew! I don't know how to check any of that:confused:. Ethernet is on the mobo and runs normally in 'Normal' mode but is not even shown as Hardware in Safe Mode. .

I have also discovered that while I can 'enable' my wireless adapter in S Mode and it shows a connection and speed, I cannot connect to the internet with it.

DG - no joy there, I'm afraid.

BOAC
15th Apr 2010, 07:55
Anyone able to offer advice on what to do re post #10? Simple English preferred:)

BOAC
15th Apr 2010, 19:38
I would very much appreciate some Windows guru help here.

Can someone explain why a mobo ethernet chip is seen (and working) in normal mode but disappears in Safe with networking mode - and how to 'reinstall' it?

BOAC
15th Apr 2010, 20:32
No. Not me Sir/Madam.
Any Windows gurus on call?

BOAC
15th Apr 2010, 21:48
Saab post #6 - "Works for me."

Does not work for me. I cannot see that it is just a driver issue - the mobo ethernet chip is not even SEEN in safe mode. If it were drivers I could reinstall from the mobo CD.

I can see my wireless card, and it can 'see' the wireless network, but even then I don't seem able to connect that either. Bizarre. What can block the ethernet adapter in Safe mode? As I understand it I need neither drivers, services nor software just to see the adapter in device mgr - is that correct?

Bushfiva
16th Apr 2010, 00:33
BOAC, what's the machine (& motherboard if you know it)?

BOAC
16th Apr 2010, 07:37
Bf - Winfast (Foxpro) NF4UK8AC I think but Sys info comes up with a NF-CK804.

Proc is AMD Ahtlon 64 3000+ (939)

Once again - Ethernet is NOT SHOWN in device manager in Safe Mode with networking. No exclamation mark as there is nothing to 'exclaim'.

Tis there in normal. Has been uninstalled (in normal) and 're-installed'. Driver installation run in Safe mode from CDRom. Not sure where I will find the network drivers - are they not irrelevant at the moment? - but I would have assumed that the board CD driver installation would have done the job.

Back to Socal #14 - is there a known infection that paralyses only ethernet connections in Safe Mode?

Thanks for info on Wireless card. (Surprised, however, that it can see a network in Safe!)

BOAC
16th Apr 2010, 16:51
How does it go? "here is no such thing as a stupid question..........."

Unless my menu is crook, I am selecting correctly. The desktop does not show any reference, however, to 'Safe mode with networking' but just 'Safe Mode'. How can I check? Am I correct in assuming that if it shows the wireless card it is ok?

BOAC
16th Apr 2010, 19:44
From post #22Unless my menu is crook, I am selecting correctly.- you are correct about the symptoms!

EDIT: I've just run my HP Laptop (XP Home SP3) in that mode and there is perfect internet connection and a visible adapter. Am I perhaps missing some registry keys?

I've just compared the SAFEBOOT/NETWORK keys and they are identical except for a procexp90.sys, Data 'Driver' on the problem desktop (XP PRO SP3) which is not on the lap. (Different adapter). Cannot locate the .sys on the machine. According to info it should be in sys32/drivers.

Saab Dastard
16th Apr 2010, 22:17
procexp90.sys is part of Process Explorer, the Task Manager replacement you have installed.

Hard to see that stopping the NIC drivers loading.

SD

BOAC
17th Apr 2010, 07:10
Thanks Saab - that makes sense.

For SoCal - I have obviously confused you for which I apologise. By 'Desktop' I mean the screen with all the Icons. I have now discovered (via the laptop) that the (correctly functioning) 'Safe with Networking' desktop is identical to the 'Safe' mode desktop - no clues that I am in 'networking' which is one less question. As for the Boot Menu, yes that is correct and yes, I am selecting the correct line.

Regarding 'comparing' the two machines - I am stuck - there appears to be an inscrutable problem to which no-one has a solution at this time, so I need to establish some baselines. I will look at Services next on both - is there a service that needs to run in order for the ethernet adapter to even 'appear' in Device manager? Is there a simple way to see which 'Safe' mode I am actually in?

Is there any point in trying to re-install the ethernet drivers in 'Safe' mode, when they are already present and functioning in 'Normal'?

BOAC
17th Apr 2010, 17:33
As for the Boot Menu, yes that is correct and yes, I am selecting the correct line. padded ..........

The Voice
18th Apr 2010, 00:27
Dear Gurus' - so sorry to gatecrash this thread ..

I've got a similar thing happening too!

My desktop is running XP pro and hubby started noticing differences yesterday (some sort of driver error message which he can't remember the wording of)

I've been trying to start the ruddy thing in a safe mode.

safe mode + either networking or command prompt produces a black screen with safe mode in all 4 corners and the OS running across the top and then nada else happens, but in safe mode alone I get the windows restart blue page with the 5 things it goes through.

It gets to a point where it wants the Nvidia driver disc to continue then seems to hang - the mouse is unresponsive and I can't use the keyboard - so I can't command it to use a different drive to read the driver disc.

At this point in time I'd be just happy to get my ultra important doc's off the hard drive before I start doing anything else ..

any clues?

TV

BOAC
18th Apr 2010, 07:37
TV - welcome to my party:) Hopefully someone will be along soon to help with the buffet.

In the meantime, are you having a problem either backing up or copying these files in normal mode?

Edit: I don't think there is much point in trying to run the Nvidia disk in Safemode - it does not install the adapter on my machine.

boe777
18th Apr 2010, 13:34
It might be that only a basic TCP/IP stack is loaded in networking + safe mode, in which case only the wired network will work, also you may go in to command prompt C:/ and type in ipconfig/all, that should give you the details of all the ip addresses and the gataway, if there is no router ip or gateway than you wont have any connectivity.

Also only FTP and UDP protocols may work.
Try pinging an ip address....

BOAC
18th Apr 2010, 13:43
boe - I don't think any of that will work without an ethernet adapter!

BOAC
19th Apr 2010, 11:12
Via another forum it has been decided that a mobo ethernet adapter will not work in Safe mode, hence the problem. Has to be a card.

alisoncc
19th Apr 2010, 12:14
My XP machine has the NVidia chipset on the mobo, and when I hold down the F8 key whilst booting I get all the "Safe" options. If I select "Safe with networking", once booted I can happily run IE v8 and access PPrune with no problems. Doing so right now. I am running an RJ45 patch cable network via a Switch box, with static IP's. DHCP disabled.

BOAC
19th Apr 2010, 15:03
alison - there you go - don't believe ANYTHING the experts tell you! I will quote your words on t'other forum and see what response I get. Thank you.

Which mobo, do you know, and do you know which chipset and current ethernet driver?

BOAC
19th Apr 2010, 17:19
I'm resisting following that line at the moment
a) Because alison's news is interesting
b) it is humungously drawn out
c) it refers as far as I can see to disabling network services which I don't have anyway.
d) I have been tapping other 'experts' opinions elsewhere

It is 'in reserve'. Right now some details of alison's setup would be good.

BOAC
19th Apr 2010, 21:57
I think trying to compare is not really going to resolve your particular problem.
Well, IF the same kit, it just might

What XP Service Pack are you running. SP3

When you boot and select Safe mode with networking - you will see all the drivers loading - do you see any errors as that screen flashes by?

No

Have you considered calling Microsoft to see what if anything they have to say?

No - I was hoping someone here (or there) might have an answer first. May have to.

Saab Dastard
19th Apr 2010, 22:26
What I would do in your position would be to install a gash HDD and do a clean install of Win XP up to and including SP3.

Check to see if that works correctly - i.e. provides networking correctly in Safe Mode plus Networking, and NOT in plain Safe Mode.

Then apply all the MS updates, check to see that it all works.

Ditto with your AV, anti-Malware, firewall, etc.

SD

BOAC
20th Apr 2010, 10:33
It is already done, guys. I just 'happen' to have a second bare-bones XP installation on another partition on the desktop (admittedly SP2) but this happily connects in Safe. I have not run a thorough check on the AV/firewall on that installation yet. Indeed, can you tell me what I can expect in terms of 'protection' other than my router firewall in Safe?

It is obviously SOMETHING in the settings in my primary Windows, and I would rather peg away at sorting it out than wipe a system which otherwise works fine. If necessary I can live without the connection there too.

As far as I can see, the only disparity is SP3 (and possibly the AV/firewall setup, although I cannot see why the latter 2 prevent the adapter appearing) although that connects fine on my laptop with XP Home.

BOAC
20th Apr 2010, 17:41
Well, here's me posting in Safe via my USB-RJ45 dongle, but since I cannot seem to get my AV to run in safe I'm out of here!

BOAC
20th Apr 2010, 21:04
Its Avast and it won't.

alisoncc
20th Apr 2010, 22:23
Not feeling the brightest here this morning - here being Oz, but will see if I can contribute.

BOAC if you boot in "Safe with networking". Then run msinfo32 in the Run dialog box - click "Start" and select "Run" dialog box.

Select "Components", "Network", "Adapter". This should show you what network hardware is installed. Scroll down looking for something like this.

Name [00000021] NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
Adapter Type Ethernet 802.3
Product Type NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
Installed Yes
PNP Device ID {1A3E09BE-1E45-494B-9174-D7385B45BBF5}\NVNET_DEV07DC\4&31C3B0D8&0&00
Last Reset 21/04/2010 7:48 AM
Index 21
Service Name NVENETFD
IP Address 192.168.1.2
IP Subnet 255.255.255.0
Default IP Gateway 192.168.1.254
DHCP Enabled No
DHCP Server Not Available
DHCP Lease Expires Not Available
DHCP Lease Obtained Not Available
MAC Address 00:1F:D0:8E:34:A7
Driver c:\windows\system32\drivers\nvenetfd.sys (1.00.02.06764, 52.38 KB (53,632 bytes), 20/09/2007 5:07 PM)

Note: the lines relating to IP Addresses and DHCP will be different.

Normally when troubleshooting an XP system I start by looking at the System Log to see what error messages are being generated.

Click "Start" and "Run". Enter "eventvwr.msc" into the dialog box and hit return. Select "System" in the lefthand sidebar and view the system error log.

Highlighting a system message and right-clicking it gives more information about the particular error under "Properties". For networking problems look for any messages relating to TCP/IP (Tcpip) in the Source column.

Another option is to edit the "Boot.ini" file in the root directory, adding the "/bootlog" parameter. This enables all boot operations to be logged in a file "ntbtlog.txt" in the Windows directory. This works in all modes and can indicate which drivers were loaded and which weren't even in the various "Safe" modes.

BOAC
21st Apr 2010, 07:44
Many thanks alison - most of that already done with no clues so far. Will compare my adapter.
Here we go:

Name [00000010] NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
Adapter Type Ethernet 802.3
Product Type NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller
Installed Yes
PNP Device ID {1A3E09BE-1E45-494B-9174-D7385B45BBF5}\NVNET_DEV0057\4&20C25E9&0&01
Last Reset 21/04/2010 08:08
Index 10
Service Name NVENETFD
IP Address 192.168.177.4
IP Subnet 255.255.255.0
Default IP Gateway 192.168.177.1
DHCP Enabled Yes
DHCP Server 192.168.177.1
DHCP Lease Expires 19/01/2038 04:14
DHCP Lease Obtained 21/04/2010 08:09
MAC Address 00:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
Driver i:\windows\system32\drivers\nvenetfd.sys (1.00.00.0482, 32.75 KB (33,536 bytes), 14/04/2006 21:09)

Interesting! I use DHCP (I wonder if therein lies the problem) and my driver is slightly older than yours. Other than that I cannot see a difference. NB I have blanked my MAC since my wifi is MAC limited - paranoia rules.

alisoncc
21st Apr 2010, 08:40
Highly unlikely that DHCP has anything to do with the problem. DHCP just assignes IP addresses for NIC's on the network automatically. I disabled mine as I run a Linux/Apache webserver on my home network - which requires a static IP address to enable port forwarding through my modem

Your system is recognising the hardware, so the only other possibility is that the drivers aren't loading. I will do some digging around to find out what drivers are loaded in safe/networking mode and get back to you.

Were there any TCP/IP related errors in the system log? (see eventvwr above)

Edit:

BOAC if you use the "/bootlog" parameter in your "boot.ini" file, then having rebooted your machine in Safe/Network mode, have a look at "ntbtlog.txt" in the Windows directory.

Use Notepad and do a search for NVENETFD.SYS. This is the NVidia network chipset driver. Make sure it's being loading. You might also need to check that the following DLL's "fdco1.dll" and "fdco1ins.dll" are located in "WINDOWS/system32" directory.

BOAC
21st Apr 2010, 12:09
All appreciated alison. the dlls are there. Bit busy on other stuff at the moment but will check the logs and bootlog when I can go back to safe.


NVENETFD.SYS was loaded.

This may be a clue?

Did not load driver NVIDIA Network Bus Enumerator

although I see the same entry in normal boot log.

Event log shows

7026

The following boot-start or system-start driver(s) failed to load:
Aavmker4
AmdPPM
aswSP
aswTdi
avgio
avipbb
BANTExt
cdudf_xp
enc2dvd
enc2filt
enc2port
FileDisk
Fips
mbmiodrvr
OADevice
RxFilter
SASDIFSV

3 x 7001's which I don't think are relevant.

4 x DCOM 10025 errors

alisoncc
22nd Apr 2010, 07:35
BOAC wrote:
This may be a clue?

Did not load driver NVIDIA Network Bus Enumerator

although I see the same entry in normal boot log.

Could be. Not 100% sure what it does, think it manages multiple network interfaces. You need the following drivers for it to ackle - NVIDIA Network Bus Enumerator that is:-

WINDOWS/System32/bdco1.dll
WINDOWS/System32/bdco1ins.dll
WINDOWS/System32/DRIVERS/nvnetbus.sys
WINDOWS/System32/DRIVERS/nvnrm.sys
WINDOWS/System32/nvconrm.dll

Mine loads in all modes. Check under the Device Manager.

Also see under msinfo32.msi "Start", "Run". "msinfo32.msi", "Software Environment","Signed Drivers", scroll down and check "nvnetbus" has started and is running.

BOAC
22nd Apr 2010, 10:52
Thanks indeed - work to do there. I have sent a second PM to you and wonder if you could maybe continue this by that or by email so as not to bore the rest of the world?

BOAC
22nd Apr 2010, 16:44
Yes - but if it is not 'fixable' I will resort to the USB dongle I think.

Keef
22nd Apr 2010, 17:18
There are ways to find what bits are missing - I can't remember now (blame my age) - might be something like SFC /SCANNOW from a CMD prompt.

When I had a hard drive glitch on my desktop PC a week or two ago, CHKDSK (or whatever that's called now) ran automatically and deleted four files that it said were corrupt. It told me the names it was deleting, but they meant nothing to me, and it rebooted before I could write them down. The machine still didn't work after the CHKDSK but the error messages were different.

I tried the Win7 disk and "reinstall/repair". That said it had done the job, but the problem remained. Google was no help either.

Then I ran the program (SFC or whatever it was). It didn't fix it, but it produced a long (about a megabyte) test and error report. It said, right at the end, that four files were missing (that same four - I recognised the names). I tried to reinstall them from the Win7 DVD, but it wouldn't do that.

I fished out a memory stick, and copied the four off the laptop and onto the desktop. Job done, desktop back in action.

Then the power supply started emitting smoke and smell, so that's off until the new power supply arrives. I have a spare somewhere, but in all the chaos of moving I can't find it.

BT haven't managed to get us a telephone at the new place yet anyway. It was supposed to happen on April 6th, then on April 19th, but each time ... nothing. Apparently, it needs "Openreach" to do something, and they are not contactable other than by e-mail or carrier pigeon. "Customer facing" they certainly aren't, and BT Customer Service tried for an hour to contact them and failed. So we wait for the boon of Openreach.

I bought a Voda dongle to tide me over, but the GPRS signal is on the limits. I get up to the dizzy heights of 20kbps sometimes, 5 kbps is more usual. 3G has not, of course, percolated to such rural parts.

BOAC
26th Apr 2010, 07:53
Still baffled by the mystique of booting up. Kindly provided by alisoncc and present in the drivers loaded for the (working) Nvidia ethernet adapter when running in 'normal' windows mode are:
WINDOWS/System32/bdco1.dll
WINDOWS/System32/bdco1ins.dll
WINDOWS/System32/DRIVERS/nvnetbus.sys
WINDOWS/System32/DRIVERS/nvnrm.sys
WINDOWS/System32/nvconrm.dll

At which point are these drivers for a chip on the mobo loaded and how can I see where and in which particular call they are loaded since there is no sign of them loading in a bootlog? The aim then would be to see where it is that they are not being loaded in safe mode.