Vista Jet [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

PicMas

20th Apr 2010, 13:54

ok... Even though I have sworn secrecy I will share the highly classified information about Vistajet with you.
Please understand that this information is sensitive and very difficult to obtain, please also promise to NEVER do a random search on the very site on which you ask the question.
I agree with you that those with first hand info (which you request) should not be trusted when they answer the questions you ask.
If the answer is not to your liking or if you are a fella not easily convinced by truth and facts I understand and admire your quest for the real truth.

The interview is not really a test, as they have already decided that it is YOU that they want. Instead, you are given a pick and choose scenario, which aircraft would you like to fly and which seat of course.
You are then given a list of destinations, you pick your favorites and thats where you will fly primarily. In case the company decides to send you to a destination not to your liking you may decide not to fly this leg and release the flight in the Vistajet worldwide booking apparatus (VWBA) this can be done from any public payphone.

Blah blah blah blah...

deskjockey101

20th Apr 2010, 15:49

now i am confused, what does all that mean!!!!!????!!!!!

Evanelpus

20th Apr 2010, 16:08

now i am confused, what does all that mean!!!!!????!!!!!

Are you serious?

yacan

20th Apr 2010, 16:45

PICMAS
just brilliant :-)
Just don't forget the Hilton and Amex Platinum Cards for free upgrades and business class travel only.

Jetaim

21st Apr 2010, 10:23

Well may be you think you are funny but you are not.
Again I'd like to find some one with first hand info,and a lesser sense of humor, in order to be as much as able to take an informed decision.

thanks

jetaim

Evanelpus

21st Apr 2010, 10:29

Ooops!

C'mon guys, let's tell it how it is. This isn't Jet Blast you know!

Jetaim

21st Apr 2010, 12:53

My friend..I'm not pushy at all.
I'm just asking for some info on the company, the working environment etc etc as anybody would do.
I don't see why it should be such a issue unless you are working for the CIA.
On the other end the fact that nobody jumped on me to dissuade me or whining like hell,looks like a good symptom and, since this is the only clue I can get ,apparently, I should assume the job ain't that bad.
As far as being a gentlemen I think I still give you lessons...mon ami.

Jetaim, moi non plus..

PicMas

21st Apr 2010, 12:59

Are you applying as cockpit or cabincrew?

yacan

21st Apr 2010, 15:43

JTM
Look, you tell everybody who knows and gives you advice and valuable information that they are wrong or telling “99% plain bull****” (your words).

So what do you expect? More help? I don’t think so.

It is quite a strange way to ask for information.

Privatejetbroker

21st Apr 2010, 20:51

Avoid their COO Scott Plumb if you can help it

He has the commercial acumen of a tomato

dynamite dean

21st Apr 2010, 21:04

Who said plumb ripe tomato ?! - never met him couldnt help the pun though.

Big Money

22nd Apr 2010, 06:50

a·cu·men

/əˈkyuhttp://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngmən, ˈækhttp://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngyə-/ http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.html) Show Spelled[uh-kyoo-muhhttp://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn, ak-yuh-] http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/dictionary_questionbutton_default.gif (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html) Show IPA
–noun keen insight; shrewdness: remarkable acumen in business matters.

For all those who need a little help. (I had to look it up for myself also:ok:)

But does a tomato have a good or a bad commercial acumen?

fly now

26th Apr 2010, 20:39

Hi guys ! passed all..but who is accepting their contracts????
who can effort to sign that crazy bond??? especially the bank security???

please give ideas...opinions

:confused:

Harlem

27th Apr 2010, 08:05

Fly now,

would you mind to explain what you mean? I have hear that their contract isn´t too good but I don´t know anything about it.

Thaks in advance.

No RYR for me

27th Apr 2010, 09:58

especially the bank security???
In Business aviation nowadays it should be better to ask the operator for a bank security :}

fly now

27th Apr 2010, 10:06

the selection is okay guys.
get prepared for the personal interview. and sim check is basic one. take off.ils ndb.
Very easy!

the problem is the contract:

YOU CANNOT START THE TYPERATING UNLESS YOU SUBMIT TO THEM A BANK GARANTEE OF THE TOTAL COST OF THE TRAINING:

IT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO GIVE TO THEM 30.000 APPROX € AND YOU CANNOT TOUCH THEM 4 THE 3 YEARS DURATION OF THE AGREEMENT.
THEY CAN! THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THAT! IT MEANS THAT IF YOU QUIT OR SOMETHING APPENS THEY TAKE THE MONEY.

I HOPE NOBABDY WILL SIGN THIS !!!

GUYS !!! LET S STOP THAT!!!

IT S NOT OSSIBLE TO PAY TO WORK!!!

IT S CRAZY!!

BE CAREFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wondering

27th Apr 2010, 13:07

If you really need the job, insist on using an escrow service. That way Vista cant touch your money in case the company goes belly up. That does not only apply to Vista. Any company out there which requires a money deposit should be dealt with appropriately. Protect your assets!!!

Good luck!

fly now

27th Apr 2010, 16:24

Guys this is what they are requisting!!

it s ridicoulus !!! we do not have to pay and show the bank account to noone.
I believe this bank security is out of the world. it s just thanks to who accept this condition that it s becoming impossible to work without paying!!

hope nobady will sign a contract like that one!!
be careful!!

LR45

27th Apr 2010, 19:05

Fly Now

What A/C are they asking you to go on?
Are you rated on any of their types?

swampthing

7th May 2010, 11:57

If there are any Vista Jet pilots here.. please PM me .. i need to get some info from you ..I have passed the assesment in Furstenfeldbruck, but need some info on further steps.

Thanks

Jetaim

14th May 2010, 08:25

Hi

Same situation and same need for info.
If anyone feels like sending me a PM I would appreciate.

salut

Jetaim

G 14

16th May 2010, 00:30

My dearest colleagues!

If your parents have enough money - join
If you don't care about a fair contract, don't let it see your lawyer/union - join
If you don't have any friends at home - join
If you don't care any more about your friends - join (you will loose them anyway)
If you don't want to see your girlfriend anymore - join
If you are already in a separation - join
If you con not read any OM-A Chapter 7 - join
If you don't care about planning your privat life - join
If you are a "yes-man" - join
If you don't find any other job - join

And the best: Slaves can't be fired, they must be sold!!

Don't ask why you probably should join this company, wonder why at least 30% of the pilots already flying there, are looking for other options!!

brgds

Dont worry

16th May 2010, 07:30

I totally agree !
By the way, I am ex Vista Jet and happy that everything happend the way it happened.

Jetaim

16th May 2010, 08:46

Any chance we can have some facts instead of moaning and whining.
I understand that Vista is not the best option around but still some more detailed info on this outfit and its operations could be helpfull to make an informed decision.By the way if 30% of the pilots are unhappy means that 70% ( the majority ) still are. It could still be a good way to stay current until something better comes around.

salut

wondering

16th May 2010, 12:38

@Jetaim

I would not conclude that 70% are happy. Maybe, they are just complacent. Maybe, there are some who would not get on with another company anyway? Most insiders could name a few.
____________________________________________________________ _____

As for the negatives, G 14 summed it up pretty well.

I would add the missing seniority list. You get the idea what this could mean for your progression at Vista. To give you an example. Are LR60 pilots who joined Vista before happy about new joiners going straight to the Chally? Go figure.

For most ppl there, it´s certainly not a 'career company'.
____________________________________________________________ _____

So, here are just a few general thoughts.

It depends what you people are looking for and what you want to get out of Vista. Are you a co-pilot looking for a fast upgrade? 2000hrs might get you a LR60 command and 3000hrs a Challenger command. Where else can you get this in the present economic climate?

Most of the new joiners are going to the Challenger fleet. Did they all have the Challenger rating? Of course not. Well, not a bad rating to have once the market picks up again.

The rating and experience gained at Vista could position you for jobs at Execujet, TAG, Ocean Sky etc. in the future. Just to name a few which hired Vista crew in the past. You might want to look at Vista as a 'FTO'.

The worst case scenario would be your three year commitment. But, there are ways to work around it as well.

Think about it, is Vista right for you as next career step? Does it fit in your career plan? It all depends on your present situation.

For those who are out of work, Vista is certainly better than nothing.

Good luck in your decision making process.

Klimax

16th May 2010, 17:04

Wondering,

Very,very good post.

Thanks for that.

Energetic Pilot

17th May 2010, 10:31

@ wondering

thank you for your reply.
I need some more information about the roster. There is an 17/13, 9/7 roster and I am wondering how "good" this one works? Is there an difference over the fleet?
What is the other way to get rid of the three years commitment?

Uncle Wiggily

17th May 2010, 14:28

There is an 17/13, 9/7 roster

Interesting. A roster in corporate Aviation?

Energetic Pilot

18th May 2010, 10:36

... plus / minus a few days :bored:

Flying Mechanic

20th May 2010, 10:18

see if u can get the Hong Kong base on the 604/850, its about 9000 US a month, some good flying around asia to.

Energetic Pilot

20th May 2010, 11:01

I was asking for the ON/OFF planning on the Lear and Challenger fleet, not for the salary...

CaptainProp

20th May 2010, 11:43

I know guys who regularly do 13-16 days on and then get 4-5 days off.

Bare Plane

21st Jul 2010, 12:50

at Farnborough 4 Globals and 2 605s.
Flohr says business is good.
:)

KirkyMS

21st Jul 2010, 13:58

Colleagues of mine had the same problem - months later Vista called, but they already had new (and better paid) jobs :D

one-to-go

26th Jul 2010, 09:24

30,000 as a bond that you cannot touch for 3 years is outrageous!! I understand why they want to bond pilots but when are these companies going to realize that the only way to get pilots to stay loyal to the company are to offer them better working conditions including stable rosters and reasonable salaries. Until this happens of course we are all going to be sending our cv's out and continually looking for pastures greener.
I really dont know where people in this industry keep finding clumps of 30k from... Good luck to all that have the financial resources to support this job application.

CL850

31st Jul 2010, 06:05

Vista = Madhouse! :=

Uncle Wiggily

31st Jul 2010, 16:11

Even if you are a pilot and offered a job at Vista it would be unwise to accept such outlandish terms and conditions. It would be better to do an alternate career at this time. You are only going to get older and it would be cruel to go through life experiencing multiple reduncancies, shuffling your family around the world, accepting lower and lower conditions, etc, simply to fly an airplane. That is not only insanity it is unfair to yourself and your loved ones. Why not get a real job?

golfo34

31st Jul 2010, 20:30

what are the real conditions like? anyone of you knows if they are calling people after the interviews of the last months? thanks

Propellerpilot

2nd Aug 2010, 13:01

Judging Vista as an uninvolved observer, all the negative rumours you read about them in the internet including this forum are sadly quite true. I would personally love to work for a company with such equipment - who would not? but this seems to be like a rotten apple which is infested with a few fat worms at the top and for that reason, it would simply be a bad choice unless they change some of their arrogant attitudes in the future.

The problem is: many pilots do not have a choice and sign up for short term gratification, just to have a job and being ignorant, that they will pay the price for it long term.

What is the benefit of being able to show off great equipment if the operations side is totally disorganised and chaotic to the detriment of the flightcrews ? If they can not get it right with the present situation how are they going to cope when the fleet expands in the future as rumours pledge ?

How can it work safely if not even basic CRM is practised and cultivated by many of the senior staff ?

How can it work if a company is not even willing to cater for a crew's basic needs ?

The list of questionable practices could be continued as already mentioned in this thread. It is not without reason why many competent pilots have either resigned or have been mobbed out. Human factors are said to be non existant.

I can only advise collegues to stay away - until this operation has undergone at least some evolution towards the positiv and there is a proper representation of the crews. If people keep falling for the eye-candy, things will never change and all this will remain a shame.

And if anybody from Vista's management feels adressed by my words, I can only appeal: it is time to pull finger! Look into the mirror and actually start caring about what you actually claim to stand for and get the job done. Please make this a company with a reputation and character that it should deserve - there is such a hugh potential in making this a great operation to work for.

Big Money

5th Aug 2010, 14:51

And as an added bonus, your flight planning is contracted out to a company with not 1, not 2, but 0 licensed dispatchers on staff!
Ask them sometime to read the NOTAM's for you, or even better, ask if they know what NOTAM stands for, especially the General Manager, he really knows his stuff. If you are lucky, you won't end up with an alternate in Iraq. :ok:

deskjockey101

5th Aug 2010, 19:50

As an ex senior VistaJet employee I would suggest that while some of your comments may possibly be true (as they could be true of a number of operators) but you are way off the mark in certain areas, and it is most likely that the reason is because you are as you put it, an "uninvolved observer", and do not have any direct internal contact with the company.

your coment that "this seems to be like a rotten apple which is infested with a few fat worms at the top" is way, way off the mark......and casts totally unfounded aspersions on some honest/talented people, who have put a significant amount of their OWN ime and assets on the line.

Before everyone starts shouting forum/rumour etc.... I totally agree, but this is one rumour that is very wide of the mark, in some areas and it's overall tone.

DJ101

Propellerpilot

5th Aug 2010, 21:43

@deskjockey - I do understand what you mean and I would generally agree. It is just the way that I have heard crew from Vista talking and complaining about their own company. I am actually only trying to support the guys and gals working there, also knowing that writing this probably does not help them much - but why always "shut up" and hold your peace ?

It just seems that those that actually try and make a difference end up leaving for some strange reasons - especially those in senior positions, maybe you where one of those people ? If so, I can not blame you.

Anyway, I hope things will improve soon - there is much to gain.

deskjockey101

6th Aug 2010, 08:33

On the subject of crew, I have never worked for or had dealings with a company where there aren't pilots moaning about one thing or the other, and rarely have i seen them offer any level of loyalty simply jumping ship regularly for better money/terms (apologies in advance to the few who have remained loyal!!!) so it's no surprise that with a fleet of 20+ a/c and 130+ crew there wil be a bit of chatter out there. Despite the rumours the senior guys that have left/been replaced have been on the non fling side (original Chief Pilot still in place since the inception, and senior pilot moved to senior management also) and have been replaced with more appropriate people. I, on the other hand, left to take up a position elsewhere that was too good to turn down, and so left on very good terms and will continue to do business with VJ in the future.

As a general comment (as this is a forum) let me leave my personal opinion. European Business aviation continues to struggle to move forward and still has the cottage industry feel. With approx. 2800 a/c and 950 AOC's (excluding the BS private/illegal operations) this leaves 2-3 a/c per AOC (factor in NJ/VJ and GJC and this reduces the ratio even further which is nowhere near enough for any sustainable level of profitability. Not until the industry as a whole get's to grips with this and EASA plays it's part with regulation change ( some form of biz jet specific AOC) will the industry be able to move forward and be profitable enough to grow, and re-invest and not rely on the charitable donations of wealthy enthusiasts and illegally run a/c......

Only my view but interested to hear others.....

DJ 101

aviatn

7th Aug 2010, 07:13

Is Vista still adding people to their pool or are they actually hiring?

Klimax

7th Aug 2010, 20:04

Aviatn,

Good question.

jar-dk

16th Aug 2010, 09:50

Hey

Can anyone give a few hints to what is gonna happen at the "psykologishe untersuchung"? or PM me!
- I expect a bit of water torture and good cop bad cop :)

Flying Mechanic

16th Aug 2010, 09:57

are they hiring for HK base still?

aviatn

16th Aug 2010, 14:32

As far as the psychological question is concerned, it is a good cop/bad cop scenario. I did the tour a couple of month ago and must say that the entire procedure was not professionally conducted at all.
During the psychological part I was given a scenario where the handling agent had brought the wrong food. We were very late for departure and a new delivery would take about an hour. The blonde, (psychiatrist) didn't know anything about aviation, but expected a professional answer from you.

Uncle Wiggily

16th Aug 2010, 18:03

The blonde, (psychiatrist)

Wow...was she wearing tight leather, held a whip, spoke with an authoritative tone and would spank you if you answered a question incorrectly? Sounds very uber-German erotic?!?

aviatn

17th Aug 2010, 08:10

They tried to make this assessment look relaxed and fair. But it is not. They told us at the start that the entire assessment will be taken in to account and not single steps. The first lie. After mid day we were told that we all did well and passed the single steps and would proceed. At the beginning you are given 5 minutes to prepare a flip chart about YOU and three minutes to talk about the flip chart you have prepared. After that a "fun" game of team work. You will be lead in to a room and transform a Lego airplane into a Lego helicopter. They want to test your team skills. The psychologist, (a blonde woman with big hooters) is absolutely useless!!! She played the "bad cop" but has NO clue about aviation. The good thing about her is her huge top.
Then there is a sim test. A Microsoft sim at home is better. You have to fly a hold and 2 approaches. This "aircraft" is very difficult to "fly". Though they tell you at the beginning that no emergencies are going to be presented, they pulled a very nasty one on me, on the missed approach. Despite what they told us at the beginning.
I didn't get an offer. :D I know quite a few pilots there that day who were very qualified and didn't get one either. Judging by their terms and the fact that many were told they had "passed" the assessment but never received a job offer since, I am quite glad to have escaped that trap. :yuk:

P.S. She didn't wear black leather but it would have been fitting. Vista is Austrian, not German.

aviatn

23rd Aug 2010, 10:23

They also have a technical part but it is a total joke and counts for nothing. You will be given a questionnaire about the Learjet 60. Most people didn't know much about that aircraft. We did the exercise as a group session. No one was in the room except the applicants and the door was closed :D We were told at the beginning that this exercise has no weight at all. We wasted about 30 minutes and then went on to the next part of the selection process. :}