Detrimental effects of media coverage (QF) [Archive]

campdoag

5th Apr 2010, 09:59

I dunno about the rest of you guys but I am fast tiring of the media's reporting of relatively standard engineering incidents. ie: QF delaminated side windshield......(as many would know this is ABSOLUTELY a NON event)

Cracked windshield grounds Qantas plane | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/cracked-windshield-grounds-qantas-plane/story-fn3dxity-1225849938386)

The media seem unrelenting in their continued Qantas bashing.

These events occur in every single airline from small turboprop regionals to large jet international operators with the best of safety reputations, this I can promise!!!!

When will we come across a journo with some credibility... one who is willing to research and compare these events with other similar operators and report in a non biased manner??

Perhaps QF need to become more clandestine about the cause of delays, engineering events and other internal matters. More akin to SQ....

bolto_79

5th Apr 2010, 10:55

All airlines have their issues. But Qantas just seams to cop it from the media day in and day out. My question is, why don't DJ issues end up in the media? Like a air return back to SYD yesterday with a mech issue?

If it had a rat on the tail, there would've been choppers taking footage of it landing, with it being "breaking news" :ugh:

Capt Claret

5th Apr 2010, 11:03

QF sure have upset some one.

I guess one question is, is it the media, or perhaps a group feeding the media? :bored: :hmm:

Keg

5th Apr 2010, 11:10

I suspect that the particular group that Clarrie is referring to fed the media for so long that it became a self perpetuating thing. Now not only does that group feed it all but every wannabe wanting their 15 minutes of fame is feeding it also.

aussiepax

5th Apr 2010, 11:25

As a PPrune reader and SLF, I feel sorry for QANTAS each time this media frenzy goes on. The media must be so desperate for headlines to dredge up these non-events.

The other side of the problem is the (lay) consumers' USA-type expectation of everything going perfectly, and that no equipment failure can be acceptable ! While ludicrous, this is the brave new world we now inhabit. While they may be inconvenienced on the ground, would these pax really prefer flying across the pond in less than reasonable condition? Anyway, to their minds, an engine flame out is no different to a wing falling off (admittedly a poor comparison) .

Good luck to all you professional aviators. The media sharks are here to stay. :ugh:

Cactusjack

5th Apr 2010, 11:30

I will tread cautiously about what I say in regards to the Media, as my last media coments were removed.Obviosuly false and ficticious stories printed by the media are accepatable, but my references and comparisons of media to 'brown matter' have been deemed unaccepatble,even though the majority of what Journo`s write is the colour of 'brown'.
But in response to Bolto_79's comment :

All airlines have their issues. But Qantas just seams to cop it from the media day in and day out. My question is, why don't DJ issues end up in the media? Like a air return back to SYD yesterday with a mech issue?

The reason QF gets so much attention over DJ is simple.
* QF has been in existance for around 90 years,compared to DJ's mere 10 years.
* QF has a proud history of servicing Australia,and is a part of Australian history,a pioneer.Whereas DJ is part of Branson's legacy and has always ridden on the coat tails of others which hardly rates in comparison.
* QF HAD a reputation built upon excellence,service and safety.Most who flew with QF in its prime,or worked for QF when money was spent on safety,service and excellence would agree.The honest truth is that DJ has never built for itself a reputation that would come even close to matching QF in its prime.That is why DJ flies under the radar while QF receives the negative spotlight.Sure,some will argue that today DJ offers an alternative to flying QF,but that is the fault of greedy mismanaged pathetic QF mangement at the top and middle layers in the past 7 years or there abouts,not because DJ is a half decent carrier.

Sadly QF has its senior people to blame for the negative publicity.It is one of the most monumental and famous losses of all time,to see an airline who profited by simply providing an absolutely world class safe service decline to an airline scrambling weekly to uphold and maintain it's former standards that made it without doubt the safest airline in the world.

And no,I am not bagging out QF on this thread.Sadly the present day facts speak for themselves.Its just a shame that the media don't listen to the frontline people who are trying to hold the place together.The media spotlight should focus on the poor legacy of managers and leaders at QF. And I am not talking about profits,which were managed quite well,I am talking about the morale,service,faults,safety decline and mismanagement of resources and skills and outsourcing and downsizing that has taken the worlds most reputable airline down to a level comparable with second rate carriers operating in third world countries.

Transition Layer

5th Apr 2010, 11:46

It's a perfect example of Tall Poppy Syndrome, and Australians are the world's worst offenders.

Definition from Wikipedia:

Tall Poppy Syndrome (TPS) is a pejorative term used in the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand and Canada to describe a social phenomenon in which people of genuine merit are resented, attacked, cut down, or criticised because their talents or achievements elevate them above or distinguish them from their peers.

Cactusjack

5th Apr 2010, 12:07

Here's a 'big story' that the media gimps can string together.
There was a magnitude 7.2 quake today affecting Mexico through to Califonia.Surely QF somewhere in the world has received a minor delay somewhere,caused by the flow on affect of the quake ?
Surely the media can create some ****e stained sensationalised story linking the two? Perhaps the quake was caused by a QF plane making a heavy landing somewhere in that region ( naturally massive sparks,flames and fire would also be reported by a distraught pax) !
Sorry folks, I figure why wait for the media to make up a crap story, I will do it myself !

fritzandsauce

5th Apr 2010, 12:45

On average how many planes are grounded eachday world wide? But I think it reassuring that a plane is designed so well it can still fly with cracked windscreen, still land without disaster when tyres blow

packrat

5th Apr 2010, 22:08

Until Qantas stops treating all and sundry with contempt~by that I mean customers staff and media~nothing will change.
Qantas as a National Carrier is an embarrassment.Its all about the bottomline and management bonuses,bugger the customer and the product.They have learnt nothing from the WFC.The snouts are still in the trough

psycho joe

5th Apr 2010, 22:11

I dunno about the rest of you guys but I am fast tiring of the media's reporting of relatively standard engineering incidents. ie: QF delaminated side windshield......(as many would know this is ABSOLUTELY a NON event)

Really, a crack / delamination inflight a non event? Are you joking?:ugh: Perhaps you should experience one before declaring it a non-event.

I have no problem with any non-normal event being reported as long as it's factual. The problem is that no-one within the airlines with a hint of knowledge is allowed to talk to the media. The only airline people who speak to the media are the PR spin-doctors who come out with worse one-liners than the media. Me thinks a 5min conversation with a Pilot or Engineer at the time of an event would reduce the chaff that gets reported.

another superlame

5th Apr 2010, 22:47

Joe delaminated cockpit windows while not an every day occurrence do happen. And while the media and the trolls feeding the media beat it up in to something that it isn't, it really isn't a news worthy item.

When an airline has what 200-250 aircraft flying thousands of flights a week then yes these things happen. I guess it is a statistical thing. i reckon the next time some journo see's a wheel change happen at the gate they will misconstrue it into something more routine than a wheel change.

I thought it was funny recently when the mainstream press got hold of the Air Safety magazine and they went on to blow it out of proportion. What a load of crap. I myself find it interesting to read and increase my knowledge of things that pertain to my occupation.

And another thing, if the trolls are going to feed the bottom dwelling misinformed journo's how about feeding them factual information. It annoys me so much to read an article that is factually incorrect and full of hearsay. Miranda Devine are you listening?

I also think the reason Qantas cops a lot of media flak is because they have brought it upon themselves over the years. These days people actually want the truth rather than corporate rhetoric. If you tell them the truth surely it helps to defuse the situation from the get go.

If Qantas has an engineering incident then let an engineer explain the issue. Don't let someone explain it who doesn't know the difference between a rotator splint and a flux capacitor. Most of the public relations people that front the media wouldn't know the difference between a nose wheel or a main wheel.

I will hop off my high horse now.

campdoag

5th Apr 2010, 23:20

Nudlaug

5th Apr 2010, 23:47

The interesting thing to note about the "cracked" windscreen incident is that before the engineers even entered the flight deck after the aircraft landed from LA a news helicopter was seen circling above. Could be coincidence and the helicopter being there on different business, I didn't even check the news on the day to see if there was TV coverage about it, or someone internal in the know must have informed the media.

As for the windscreen itself it was in this case indeed a nonevent, either the internal vinyl layer split or part of the window heat conductive layer, conflicting info being thrown around. Either way not a structural defect at all and the aircraft would have been able to continue if it wasn't for the fact that this particular window was manufactured by GKN which makes the limits for damage more stringent than a PPG window. So the window got changed, with a part from the preferred manufacturer. Unfortunately by that time the crew had run out of hours and the flight finally departed just after 01:00am the next day. So pretty much a completely safe non event that nonetheless ended up in a very big delay and big media coverage. Bad luck for Qantas and deserved media bashing for all the reasons other contributers in this thread already highlighted.

No point crying foul, just get on with the job and get the public and media on the side, not with stupid PR spindoctors that talk obvious crap but honesty, safety and a great product serving Australians, not the managers bonusses. Is it going to happen? I seriously doubt it.

Transition Layer

6th Apr 2010, 01:21

Here we go again...:( This is starting to become a bit of a worry

Sydney Morning Herald

Qantas flight forced to turn back due to engine problem
CRAIG PLATT
April 6, 2010 - 11:13AM

Another Qantas flight has been forced to turn back after take-off, this time due to an engine problem.

QF1 from Bangkok to Heathrow Airport in London experienced an engine surge shortly after take-off at 4am (AEST) this morning.

The captain of the Boeing 747 shut down the engine and returned to Bangkok Suvarnabhumi Airport at 5.30am.

The incident comes the day after a Qantas passenger threatened to bring down a flight from Sydney to Singapore using the power of his mind.

Engineers were examining the QF1 aircraft and a replacement jet was being flown from Sydney to Bangkok. The flight's 335 passengers were transferred to a hotel, Qantas said.

"There was no safety issue at any stage – Boeing 747 aircraft can fly normally on three engines," Qantas said in a statement.

The incident comes after another long-haul Qantas flight was grounded in Melbourne yesterday after a cockpit window cracked during a flight from Los Angeles.

The Australian airline has faced a string of technical problems on its flights in recent months - from tyres blowing out during landing, to engine troubles.

On Friday, a flight from Perth to Brisbane was delayed after a wing flap defect was found.

On the same day, a Qantas Boeing 747 travelling from Brisbane to Los Angeles was grounded after a wiring problem was found in one of its engines.

Last Wednesday, two tyres burst on an A380 superjumbo as it landed at Sydney Airport.

The day before, a Sydney-Singapore flight turned back when a pilot found an engine problem.

In December, a 747 flight from Singapore to Melbourne was forced to turn back after an engine surge.

psycho joe

6th Apr 2010, 05:16

I have experienced 2 de-laminations and I re iterate they are in 90% of cases a non event. Next time you get the chance talk to a PPG aerospace (the windshield manufacturer) engineer ask him about de-laminations. The only layer that is structural is the inside layer so if you cant feel cracks on the inside it is still structurally sound. The other potential safety concern is obscured vision.... hardly a worry on a side window......

I've also suffered delaminations as well as a shattered window in flight, and I know how the windows work.:hmm:

My point was simply that I'm happy for all and any non-normal events (such as this) being reported, simply so that:

1. The general public understand that these machines can, do, & will break. And if the flight is delayed as a result it's not because we're all too lazy to go flying on time; and

2. The general public understand that we pilots do more for our wage than mindlessly watch the plane fly itself, sip latte's, and shag lingerie models.

The problem as i see it is not so much bad journalism (although that's certainly true) but lousy PR people who throw out glib one liners instead of an accurate and articulate press release, in the hope that giving as little info as possible will make the news article go away. Of course it only makes it worse because it looks like the company has something to hide.

example:
There was no safety issue at any stage – Boeing 747 aircraft can fly normally on three engines," Qantas said in a statement.

Well thank god for Boeing, FAA certification & dumb luck.:ugh:

I don't wish to pick on QANTAS PR specifically but they seem to be the most prolific at this. It seems to me that if PR people could follow a simple pro-forma like:

1. confirm airline
2. confirm aircraft type
3. confirm location
4. give a brief (accurate) description of problem
5. give a brief description of how the crews achieved a short term resolution
6. give a brief description of long term resolution and if necessary why the event wasn't a near death experience.

Then the quality of reporting would be somewhat improved.:hmm: It would also cut down on the expert opinion of some pax sittiing in the back who would obviously know more about what happened than the crew.:ugh:

Anulus Filler

6th Apr 2010, 05:42

Sometimes, Q management has to sit back and ask itself if all this -ve publicity is worth the few dollars they may be saving themselves by being unreasonable in negotiations. Me thinks many of these issues may be linked to the fractured interaction between management and the current EBA negotiations!!!

nitpicker330

6th Apr 2010, 07:29

I wish I could post all of CX's operational issues each week but if I did then......

QF are no better or worse than most legacy carriers worldwide.

The problem with QF is they market themselves as "the worlds most experienced Airline". ( I feel sick everytime I see an advert )This can leave them open to ridacule,
people that live in Glass houses etc etc.

ROH111

6th Apr 2010, 07:32

Isn't it funny.

The media hammer Qantas, leaving everyone else alone.

I am trying to be sensitive here, but stating facts... I don't know about you guys, but I have not seen ANY media coverage of the sad story out of Darwin. I mean, struth, it's a high capacity RPT aircraft that killed people. Then a window delaminates on a Qantas flight and it's headline news. The Darwin accident killed people, the delamination in no way even threatened life!

Then there is Emirates. As everyone is aware, they have had a very dangerous incident departing YMML (I am refering to the tail strike) and then their flagship, the A380, landed in Sydney, runway 16R, nearly on the road before the runway!! WELL outside of the TDZ, and that get's no media attention! To see what I am talking about refer to the video link on youtube.com below.

YouTube - Emirates A380 hard and short landing AKL-SYD (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOmGd4qpsyk)

Yes, tyres blowing isn't a great thing to happen and the sparks make great viewing on the TV, but a pilot, landing, well short of a runway, no pitch up on touch down, no regard/understanding of a TDZ and they get no media attention!! This could have killed people more than a flaky window!

Come on media, get your act together! :ugh:

Capt_SNAFU

6th Apr 2010, 07:52

ROH 111 you think that one was bad, this one was worse. Touchdown before the threshold. Same runway same airline. :sad::\

lpZvRea4S_8

7378FE

6th Apr 2010, 08:52

H'mm
No cars/buses crushed by an A380, fence still intact no tyre marks on the grass, ATC didn't notice anything and the ILS still worked after the so called short landing. :hmm:

Don't believe everything you see on You Tube. :rolleyes:

Too many holes in the Swiss cheese aligning in QF, time for the QF management to act before something that is actually newsworthy happens.

Going Boeing

6th Apr 2010, 09:40

Too many holes in the Swiss cheese aligning in QF, time for the QF management to act before something that is actually newsworthy happens.

I despise the previous management for the way that they ran down a great airline, but looking at all the recent events, I can't see a common thread as to the failures - perhaps some of our engineering contributors can give us more info on what has happened behind the scenes.

Captain Sherm

6th Apr 2010, 09:58

It's a beat up, nothing more or less.

But it is fuelled by those inside QF (and others in past ages) who go on and on about "it's just a business".....when of course in fact it's plainly not. NO other business straps its customers in little aluminium coffins and sends them into the high night sky, hours from land etc etc etc.....

The bad things do happen and from time to time in clusters. And sometimes with tears and even blood. Sherm years back did an audit of Delta and it would make your eyes water to see the internal management documents detailing the daily "events" in an airline which, with its code-sharing affiliates, had then about 1,000 airframes in the sky each day. Headlines galore if the wrong journalists got hold of the highlights....but to those of us who actually earn a living at it.....simply daily business as usual. NOT desirable and we all seek to learn as much as possible.....but simply daily life.

Our world is different from most business worlds and we are too......"sui generis" if you like....and so we have to accept that every time an ex BCG clown explains that "new" principles prevail....they're wrong and they are digging a very big hole for themselves every time a hydraulic system lets go or there's fumes in the air con system. For us....necessary evils but for them...."shock horror".

As Marilyn Monroe said (paraphrased) as it today pertains to our world...."those who know us better know better". Our own management don't know us....why should journalists?

Qantas 787

6th Apr 2010, 10:42

I am also sick of the media - they are becoming more and more like the Americans everday. Do you notice the news "headlines" these days include trivial media stories like the diving pigs at the Easter Show? Surely Meanwhile, there was a huge earthquake in Mexico which is actually newsworthy. Oh, and there was that EK A340 which had a very lucky escape last year.......

There is definently some inside information that is being passed onto the media - they also must have sources at the airport who don't work for the airline who help them out.

The biggest thing with the media is they get on thier high horse, interview the "terrified" or "angry" passengers - would they prefer the aircraft continue on? They are getting to the point where it seems like they are having a go at QF for taking the safest option. Planes brake, they need to be fixed. The media seem to make it like QF are the only airline with issues.........

Mind you, any press release from QF in response explaining the issue is always edited (or ignored totally) so QF PR are fighting a losing battle.

The worst part about the media coverage is the average person reads it and thinks QF is unsafe etc. The flight crew in particular do a fabulous job in all these 'incidents' and what they do everyday.

mrdeux

6th Apr 2010, 10:47

Too many holes in the Swiss cheese aligning in QF, time for the QF management to act before something that is actually newsworthy happens.Utter rubbish.

Oh Me Oh My

6th Apr 2010, 11:24

We had a chat round the tarmac office today regarding this exact issue and consensus based on each individual issue was that the A380 blowing tyres mmm maybe the anti-skid system being U/S (and on MEL) had something to do with it but with none of us being the chosen few no more info was forthcoming, 747 engine issues well if you outsource you run the risk of the product not being as good as it once was, cracked windscreen/delam, man if I had a dollar for every one in the world I'd be a gazillionaire.

Qf refused to give ALL its workers little or no respect, pushed a 3% per annum increase over more years than I can remember, ran down their conditions of employment until they could take no more. All the while doing the opposite for it's executive group massive pay increases, conditions beyond the pale even late last year increasing exec travel privileges that reduced ALL other staffs to a point its hardly worth traveling anymore. Its the joke about the rowing crew soon they'll be sacking the rower for being unproductive.
:ugh:

Worrals in the wilds

6th Apr 2010, 11:56

...they also must have sources at the airport who don't work for the airline who help them out.
Why do you assume they don't work for the airline? Maybe they do work for Qantas and they're disillusioned and/or seditious? I've never worked for QF, but working at an airport, talking to Qantas staff and reading what's said on PPRuNe tells me that Qantas has a pretty browned off, under-appreciated workforce across all its operational departments.

It's only a small step from being under-appreciated to sending information to the media, either for aspirational reasons (to fix the problem) or just to be a prick and make life tough for the despised managment drones. On a few occasions the federal government has learned this the hard way.

Hypothetical question with no pre-conceived assumptions...How many of these 'stories' are coming from within Qantas itself? Say It Ain't So :}

I don't wish to pick on QANTAS PR specifically but they seem to be the most prolific at this.
A company's media coverage is usually only as good as its PR staff. Just how good are they at Qantas? As a number of you have said, one of the problems appears to be the airline's handling of potentially damaging stories, rather than the actual incidents.

If the PR team took on a couple of well presented, co-operative LAMEs (possibly a big ask ;)) that could answer stupid media questions with matter-of-fact knowledge and courtesy, they would probably dowse a lot of this crap before it hit the headlines.

Whenever questioned about anything even remotely non routine, Qantas seems to have an oversupply of PR poppets and a lack of simple, plausible explanations. We industry types all understand the issues behind minor incidents and delays, but the average person (even if they are intelligent and well educated) usually has a basic lack of knowledge about what keeps aircraft in the air and is also a bit scared of flying. The modern media exists to either terrify, arouse or disgust you (facts are so 1960s :sad:) so they are happy to play on the public's lack of knowledge and paranoia.

ditch handle

6th Apr 2010, 15:56

April 6, 2010 – 6:55 pm, by Ben Sandilands
Qantas is in all sorts of ‘strife’ today , a turn back at Bangkok, another cracked windscreen in Melbourne, and mechanical delays to a flight from LA to Brisbane, all involving 747s.

The Bangkok incident involved lengthy delays to yesterday’s QF1 Boeing 747-400 to London which returned to Bangkok after an engine surge early this morning. Its 335 passengers are now in a hotel awaiting a replacement 747. And as the airline has been quick to admit, the jet that broke down was last serviced in Australia. Only recently.

As if routine breakdowns weren’t enough, the Fairfax press is reporting a case of a loony trying to bring down a Qantas jet with mind power, and being silly enough to share his obsession with everyone nearby, causing him to finish the flight in hand and leg cuffs.

All up the media spent the day engaged in the biggest Qantas safety frenzy of the year, so far.

And its all a shallow media sham. None of these incidents matter two cents, but a culpable, lazy media is chasing after problems where Qantas has dealt in the safest possible manner with typical operational breakdowns, yet ignored the really serious issues affecting both the carrier and the integrity of air safety administration in Australia.

But those stories are hard to get.

Take the case of the damaged windscreen in a 737 that continued to fly because a so called professional engineer, breaking with his striking colleagues, ignored the intent and purpose of an airworthiness directive that requires immediate replacement of the damaged pane.

As reported in Plane Talking the crux of this incident is that:

…what Qantas saw as a situation that was tolerable on the night of February 7 was deemed intolerable on February 8 and the windscreen panel was replaced before the jet continued in service, even though it was a mere 65 minutes block time from its base in Melbourne.

That’s a story about a screw up that could have killed around 176 people in a full Qantas 737-800.

Or the incredible case of Qantas subsidiary Jetstar, which not only couldn’t produce documentation related to a dangerous missed approach to Melbourne Airport in 2007, but failed to report it fully to the ATSB until forced to do so by a report in Crikey and Aviation Business.

This prima facie criminal failing on the part of Jetstar was followed by NO ENFORCEMENT ACTION by the ATSB.

There is something rotten in the public administration of air safety in Australia, and the government, the opposition, and the general media are complicit in ignoring the situation.

These are the real Qantas group stories.

Footnote: Qantas can’t even report its international traffic figures for Jetstar accurately to the ASX, instead pumping them up the Jetstar NZ domestic figures. Will the ASX act? Crikey filed a complaint with the ASX last Thursday.

This report appeared earlier in the day in the Crikey subscriber email bulletin.

Comments (0) | Permalink

Ngineer

6th Apr 2010, 23:20

The fleet quality is not what it use to be, plain and simple. If anyone has their doubts, crack open an engine cowl and have a good look around. Alot of guys who post here probably seem a little disheartened or negative, but only because they were passionate about something they were proud of.

I am sure that this will upset alot of people, but what is happening is happening for a reason, and is now out of our hands. Just sit back and watch it all unfold.

Oliver Klozof

7th Apr 2010, 02:15

The Lazy Journalists Plane Story Generator (http://radans.net/jens/planestory.html) :ok:

ROH111

7th Apr 2010, 02:44

I love it Oliver!! Nice work! :ok:

Boomerang_Butt

7th Apr 2010, 02:48

ROH, I had the exact same thought re: Airnorth. I was reading a few of the major papers in the days after that event and the only one that mentioned anything of substance was the NT News/Times (forgotten which, probably both) and for obvious reasons. A bit of online coverage from news.com.au but really, compared to Lockhart River, nada.

Oh wait, it was only 2 pilots on a training flight, not a later flight with 33 POB, nevermind then.... training issues don't affect the safety of fare-paying pax, do they?? :ugh:

news

7th Apr 2010, 04:24

The biggest press scandal this century uncovered. Hush money paid to the largest press outlets to safeguard what was almost Australia's worst air disaster. It has been confirmed Australia's largest two media companies were rewarded extensively to not do their job. No reports by any mass media coverage existed following an Emirates A340 near crash as it departed from Melbourne in March 2009. The pilots have been sacked after ironically saving hundreds of lives which they a short time earlier almost killed. Richard Travers of the ACCC reports hefty fines to be enforced and new laws concerning the freedom of information to be addressed. He said "the Editors are sometimes in a difficult position as to what they print. But in cases like these its clear cut." It has been suggested prison time may be served for those found guilty.

ROH111

7th Apr 2010, 05:15

Source: thewest.com.au

Emergency Landing At Jandakot.

"A light aircraft carrying two people has been forced to perform an emergency landing at Jandakot airport after it suffered problems with its landing gear.
"The pilot reported problems ...managed to land safely just before midday.
It is not clear whether the plane landed on its belly or if the problems with its landing gear were rectified prior to landing.

In other words, we heard there was a drama, we'll put a sensational headline on it, get the readers to have a look at the article, aaaannnnnd, we don't know what the outcome was. AWESOME JOURNALISTIC WORK RONAN O'CONNELL, YOU TRULY ARE A PROFESSIONAL!!!

Qantas 787

7th Apr 2010, 09:40

With the PR department giving information, it still seems the more information you give, the worse it gets. You can't win either way.

schlong hauler

7th Apr 2010, 11:44

IMHO news has become the new form of entertainment. Quick, sharp, emotive stories to be dished out by every journo trying to get a name for themselves in the world of media hype to sell advertising space. Thanks to us for tuning in, reading or listening has driven the sensationalist crap that is now entertainewsment. Ask yourself how much news do we really need to know. How much or what will change our daily lives? Perhaps for most that there lives or so boring and mundane that they need this sort of drivel. Luckily I have my head in the clouds and not up some editors arse!

Worrals in the wilds

7th Apr 2010, 12:07

news,
Are you saying media companies in Australia were paid off by EK to not report the Melbourne incident, which IIRC was the week's headline story for all media outlets from The Channel Nine News to the Balonne Beacon, complete with load sheet analysis, groovy pictures of the busted ILS and 'We Thought We Were Going To Die' interviews from several expert pax?

Is that what you're saying? No worries if you are, but what's your evidence, even if it's unsubstantiated, hearsay or otherwise inadmissable? In the words of the great private aviator John Tavolta, Tell Me More :}.

Australia has at least one hundred media companies* without considering unorthadox sources such as PPRuNe and crikey.com, so that's an awful lot of bribes and control, even for a wealthy company like Emirates :confused:.
* B&T : Major Media Companies (http://www.bandt.com.au/browse_company_subsection.asp?pubcatid=1833), and I realize Just For Adults Pty Ltd may have had other things on their minds...

topend3

7th Apr 2010, 22:42

Get over it I say if you don't like what's in the papers then don't read them!

601

7th Apr 2010, 23:51

Latest news

Flight from Hell

Melbourne passengers told of their terrific horror aboard a Canberra bound ****s flight which was told in no uncertain terms to return to Melbourne yesterday due to running out of Everybody Loves Raymond episodes.

Some passengers were devastated that the 247 passengers were told few details of the kerfuffle.

They said the plane 'Turned on it's side and flopped like a fish out of water' before turning around.

As a precaution, fire trucks were on standby when the Airbus Dash-4 Caribou landed.

Passenger Bruce Goatman last night was still recovering from the ordeal.

'The hostess shoved me out of the plane. I landed right on the concrete', the passenger said.

teresa green

8th Apr 2010, 11:31

How much of this crap is being fueled by the Engineers Union who are hot after a pay increase. I don't have a problem with this, these blokes spend many a unpleasant night hanging off a airframe or engine, often in lousy WX ,adding to that, their long periods of study to stay current with types they service. But the reality is continue to damage the brand is going to cause long term effects, and the "nervous nellies" are going to look elsewhere for their trip to Thailand or wherever. They have no idea that this stuff going thru the press is everyday stuff that happens in Aviation all over the world and means little in the large scale of things. So lighten up fellas, keep the press out of such mundane items, and keep plugging away for your increase, but use a little discretion in what you feed to the journos.

BogeyBoy

8th Apr 2010, 11:59

Teresa - not sure which "Engineers Union" you are referring to. From your example, you appear to refer to LAMEs, however I believe their EBA bargaining is yet to commence. If you are referring to the Professional Engs, I have not seen any of their publicity referring directly/specifically to any of the recent "events".

Nevertheless, do not believe that QF, specifically QF mgmt, is innocent and helpless to prevent the brand damage you refer to. Their "style" of EBA "negotiation" with almost all unions typically leaves little other ultimate recourse for the union other than to turn to the media. Add some lingering and widespread "disengagement" issues throughout the rest of the staff, and you have the recipe for the PR debacle we are currently witnessing.

Ngineer

8th Apr 2010, 12:35

How much of this crap is being fueled by the Engineers Union who are hot after a pay increase.

How much of this is not? It depends what you know or who you believe.

But the reality is continue to damage the brand is going to cause long term effects, and the "nervous nellies" are going to look elsewhere for their trip to Thailand or wherever.

Is turning a blind eye to safety issues and Bull$=ting to the travelling public just to keep us gainfully employed the answer? I do understand your arguements but do not necessarily agree with them. If standards improve it will not be the result of us keeping quiet.

Long Bay Mauler

8th Apr 2010, 13:00

I think that teaser greene's post is typical of what Qantas is allowing the media to publish.

Most people think that the current engineers dispute is a continuation of the Protected Industrial Action initiated by the ALAEAand that occurred 18 months ago.The company does nothing to correct the media from showing images of AMEs & LAMEs working on aircraft.

The current dispute is between Qantas & APSEMA,who are termed the Professional engineers.These are the suit and tie engineers who work in offices at the main bases.

But what Qantas is allowing to be seen & and not corrected in the media,is the untruth that it is the ALAEA that is indispute.By constantly using the term "engineers", Joe Public believes that all Qantas engineers are taking industrial action,when the truth is probably closer to only about 300 professional engineers.

But then I guess if the media showed a group of guys & gals sitting at desks in an office,answering phones & working on computers,and not pretty pictures of engineers working on aircraft,it would hardly raise an eyebrow with most punters.

airtags

8th Apr 2010, 21:15

1. When it comes to media QF are poor performers - it's a cultural hangover from Dixon's era. Joyce is trying to fluff it up but the real agenda is say nothing and it will go away.
If you want to mitigate a story then be the one giving the story - not waiting to be the token respondent. Then when you do respond use real operational people not pollie leftovers. (eg MFB in Melbourne uses operational firefighters at the scene - some a bit rough but all have cred)

2. When it comes to journalists - the rules of the game are different - balance and fact checking are no longer necessary nor is mature knowledge. It's either reactive tabloid and inarticulate or just Friday Australian puff piece.

3. When it comes to educating journalists the aviation industry and the respective unions get a D minus.

4. Yes the engineers are players in the QF blues game (and good on them), but they do need to be a bit more strategic rather than just "I told you so", reactive 'incident opportunists' (eg. nil parts, an ever growing hold list due insufficient time - even the new toys have hold lists that read like an inventory)

The big & real issue is that each of the major RPT carriers have a different SMS with vastly different parametres in respect of reporting thresholds, despite some token reulatory requirements (although these appear optional for some). This is one reason why QF's 'failures' are more prominent than JQ or DJ. This relates to the operational environment as well as maintenance.

The real question that needs an intelligent media run is the use by ALL CARRIERS of weak and bureacratic regulatory environments that are white-anting of safety in Australian skies and why the regulators (plural) and pollies are letting it happen.

Before the wrath of company ppruners, Qf bashers and LCC heroes hit the reply button - list all the incidents, maintenance and ops from all airlines and then make note of the regulatory outcome - some very serious stuff has been allowed with little or in some cases no action.

AT
:E

captwawa

9th Apr 2010, 06:26

It will be interesting to see if Virgin Blue cops the same treatment from the media as Qantas has when their engineers follow suite.

The Australian article (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-engineers-vote-for-bans-in-pay-dispute/story-e6frg95x-1225851572583)

Surely the general public gets tired of these media beat ups of events....

But there are some dumb people that believe everything the media tells them.

I thought the media was meant to report the news not create it :confused:

another superlame

9th Apr 2010, 10:30

I wonder if Alan Joyce reads this most prestigious of blogs, because it would seem that if he did he must have heeded the writings on his screen.

He has sent an open letter to all FFs in regard to the dramas over the last week. Whilst it is a bit mushy I reckon it is a step in the right direction. And what he has written is pretty damn true in regard to things like window cracks and engine surges.

I think it will pay dividends to tell the truth instead of trying to pretend nothing ever happens. Now all they need to do is continue this openess inside the terminal and tell customers if they are being delayed why and for how long. I believe this is customer service which is something that Qantas has missed for a long time.

p.j.m

10th Apr 2010, 23:05

I dunno about the rest of you guys but I am fast tiring of the media's reporting of relatively standard engineering incidents. ie

I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of

1) all these incidents that are occurring, and I'm sure its down to lack of maintenance (read cost cutting)

2) the fact that every time one of these "incidents" occur, Qantas and their apologists all jump up and down saying "there was no danger" it was a "routine fault" , blah, blah, blah

The time for excuses is long over. Qantas needs to get back to a proper "Australian" headcount for maintenance, and do it PROPERLY with fully trained engineeers who have pride in their WORLDCLASS workmanship. Not some skeleton staff that have been beaten into submission by beancounters, and who's morale is at all time lows (and the resulting "she'll be right, close enough is good enough, do I have to work overtime AGAIN, will I still have a job next week, etc that the beancounters regime has fostered)

mrdeux

10th Apr 2010, 23:12

I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of

1) all these incidents that are occurring, and I'm sure its down to lack of maintenance (read cost cutting)I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of You truly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?

2) the fact that every time one of these "incidents" occur, Qantas and their apologists all jump up and down saying "there was no danger" it was a "routine fault" , blah, blah, blahThat's because virtually all that it being printed is just sensationalist clap trap. Same stuff happens elsewhere, but you don't hear about, therefore you seem to think it doesn't happen.

p.j.m

10th Apr 2010, 23:17

You truly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?Doesn't take long for the apologists to come crawling out of their holes does it?

Suggest you take a long look in the mirror and then ask yourself who "has no idea what he is talking about".

"Risk" is for beancounters, "Preventative Maintenance" (or interval-based maintenance) is for Airlines. the current "Fix on Fail" mentality of Qantas is what is causing all these problems that never existed under the past maintenance schemes.

balance

11th Apr 2010, 04:53

Deux is right in that he states:

virtually all that it being printed is just sensationalist clap trap

Pjm, you too are right when you state:

The time for excuses is long over. Qantas needs to get back to a proper "Australian" headcount for maintenance, and do it PROPERLY with fully trained engineeers who have pride in their WORLDCLASS workmanship. Not some skeleton staff that have been beaten into submission by beancounters

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with you, your problem Pjm is this: you cannot tie these incidents to the lack of good quality Australian maintenance. There simply is no proof. Whilst there is no proof, your media battle is cut out for you.

Capt Kremin

14th Apr 2010, 05:02

Cathay had a MAJOR incident in the last day or so. So far the only place I have found reference to it was here on PPRUNE.

One wonders what would have been the coverage if a QF A330 had landed in HKG with both engines shut-down, 230 kts over the fence and a full evacuation at the end of it. (No criticism of Cathay here, the pilots evidently did a fantastic job with the cards they were dealt..) but where is the reporting in the Australian media?:confused:

Transition Layer

14th Apr 2010, 05:14

Here's the reporting you're after CK:

Sydney Morning Herald
Australian pilots hailed as heroes after airliner engine failure
April 14, 2010 - 2:48PM

The Australian pilots of a Cathay Pacific flight who managed to steer an Airbus A330 plane to safety at Hong Kong's airport after both its engines malfunctioned, have been hailed as heroes by colleagues.

Cathay Pacific said in a statement the plane's left engine had shut down as the aircraft made its landing approach at Hong Kong's international airport yesterday with 309 passengers on a flight from Surabaya in Indonesia.

The right engine also began to "cut out inexplicably, leaving the (pilots) to cope with dips and surges in power and the prospect of the plane plunging into the sea short of (the airport)," the South China Morning Post reported.

The emergency landing caused all four tires on the left hand side of the plane to deflate, while two on the right side also deflated, the airline said. Passengers were evacuated on emergency inflatable slides. There were eight injuries.

"It was an amazing piece of piloting in extremely testing circumstances," one colleague of the two Australian pilots was quoted as saying by the South China Morning Post. "One engine was shut down completely and the other was going on and of. They effectively landed the plane on half an engine."

"Their stories will come out in due course when the investigation is complete but what they did was nothing short of heroic. It's a miracle they managed to get the plane down safely," the paper quoted another Cathay Pacific staff as saying.

Hong Kong's Civil Aviation department said it would investigate the "serious aircraft incident" and release a report in a month's time.

Great effort from the blokes involved. It's a pity Qantas pilots aren't shown the same respect by the Australian media when they safely manage an in-flight emergency. :sad:

Capt Kremin

14th Apr 2010, 06:01

Agreed. Some of the reporting is a bit suss however. I really doubt they would have flown from shortly after TOC to HKG on one engine.

I also seriously doubt this tidbit of info from a report in the SCMP.

A Cathay Pacific flight quality controller said it was extremely rare for an engine to break down during a flight unless it was hit by an object such as a bird or birds.
"Even with both engines dead, our planes still have a backup power supply that should allow it to glide for up to hour, with the help of flaps and spoilers.

Anyway it all in the Fragrant harbour forum. Well done guys.

Qantas 787

14th Apr 2010, 10:34

Agree Transition Layer - I know the circumstances were different but both crews from this incident and the QF30 deserve praise. Instead the QF crew were largley ignored in terms of credit for handling such a rare incident.

If the pilots of the CX A330 were not "Australians", the story would have been buried in the news after other the other hard hitting news stories these days.......

OneDotLow

15th Apr 2010, 23:07

I hear that terrified Qantas passengers are grounded across the European Continent after engineers became responsible for making Qantas aircraft unable to fly through volcanic ash. Other Qantas codeshare flights are also having similar problems.

Qantas' media department had no comment, other than
to say that it was part of an ongoing and disruptive campaign by its 'naughty, naughty staff'.

Boomerang_Butt

16th Apr 2010, 06:18

And now we've got some singer claiming that her group got "terrible treatment" on their flight... according to a radio report the group's antics & issues with phones caused a 15 minute delay to the flight.

Kelly Rowland in a rage over cabin crew | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/kelly-rowland-in-a-rage-over-cabin-crew/story-e6frfq80-1225854368649)

Frankly I'd side with the crew going by the kind of behaviour these celebrities usually display- seem to think they are exempt from rules... can't wait to hear the full story, I know some crew can talk to people like they are kids but honestly, if pax act like 5 year olds refusing to turn off phones and having a tantie about it, then maybe talking to them like 5 year olds is the only thing they respond to!!!

fritzandsauce

16th Apr 2010, 07:27

Kelly Rowland in a rage over cabin crew | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/kelly-rowland-in-a-rage-over-cabin-crew/story-e6frfq80-1225854368649)

Shes just pis*ed shes not Beyoncé and has to take a commercial flight and not a private charted jet. Reading the comments by the readers of this artical they all support Qantas :ok:

rmcdonal

17th Apr 2010, 10:23

There is nothing more annoying than having the same crap re-bundled and sold on as a new product, as can be seen on the SMH (http://www.smh.com.au/) website.
"Travellers should expect delays of up to a week (http://www.smh.com.au/national/travellers-should-expect-delays-of-up-to-a-week-20100417-sled.html)"
and
"Qantas predicts delays could last a week " (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-predicts-delays-could-last-a-week-20100417-sl47.html)
Are almost identical articles with several paragraphs simply cut and paste from the original. Really? :ugh::ugh::ugh:
When singers do this their stuff gets trashed.