Gringos wanting to fly in our airlines haha

[gasguzzlerlatino]

I know this is gonna make some of you gringos and non latin americans angry, but guess what? Its callee reciprocity.
I read these forums on gringos wanting to fly in Copa, Lan, etc... are you kidding me? Why dont you stay with your racist people up in USA and fly your airlines? OH wait you don't wanna fly CRJ 200s and fly crappy schedules and get low paid?
For all I know, COMAIR, AMERICAN EAGLE , COLGAN are hiring. There are few others that I cant remember. So why dont you go fly in those regionals? It is not as if you gringos dont have jobs available cause there are. Gringos have ruined the possible jobs for many panamenians in the recent past for example. So now gringos wanna fly in our countries, our airlines? Quedense en su pais.

[privateer01]

Well thats quite the racist rant there.......

[Coto]

One day you will be without a job, you will need to go and work in another country. When that day comes, lets see if your words are the same....

What a crappy post you made....

[gasguzzlerlatino]

Actually , if you would do some research you would see what I wrote. Gringos, at least do not justify them coming to latin america. WHY? Their regionals are hiring, and I mentioned some of them. If you dont want to work when there ARE job openings it is YOUR problem but do not come to our countries and try to take away the job from someone who deserves it. There are plenty of qualified pilots that had to wait just because of gringos in the case of Copa, and there are plenty in the region as well. I agree it is in some cases the airline's fault as well.
Just as you guys ask for green card or citizenship , we do as well, dont think that you can have it all the way you like it. I did see your location is Portugal and I hope you and your friends have jobs and enjoy them.

[PPRuNe Towers]

And our little troll is writing from an American (aviation) university..............

[Coto]

I work in the portuguese flag carrier TAP and I am portuguese. And we have spanish, belgium, italian, Brazilians...flying with us. We welcome them here, like we do with any person who wants to apply and pass all the tests(includes a portuguese language exam - difficult part for foreigns). For them to enter, some portuguese didn't. That's the way it works and that's the way i think it's fair. I think everybody deserves a chance to work in any country they want. Nationality should never be a requirement IMO.

Why does COPA prefer American pilots?

If you think things are good in the States watch

FRONTLINE: flying cheap: special video | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/view/special.html)

[gasguzzlerlatino]

Oh trust me, I saw that show, as a matter of fact I viewed it when it aired, I like to stay on touch with the happenings in aviation.
I have had my fair share with some foreign pilots, dont get me wrong there is great people, I have friends in major US airlines.
That doesnt take away though the fact that there is people who come to our countries and ruin the industry. If not take a look at the COPA threads ( people suggesting other to go and get the TR and leave ASAP). I have friends there who are crew members and tell me how arrogant and unpolite foreign crews are. For example, how they do not try to even learn the language, come on, you need to talk english with atc, but you can speak spanish with you gate personnel and say hi.
My problem is with those who want to come to latin america for jobs, when there are jobs here ( as bad as they are or can be).
Now when there is no more people down south ( or qualified pilots) and there is a need for pilots and these pilots convert licences, pass tests, etc... then welcome, but until then don't close doors on my friends not only south but also in US ( the case ) since it is the country that has the most restrictions to work.

[privateer01]

If your from Panama.....

I was born alot further south then you were.

Frankly I find your view as expressed here an embarrassment to anyone born or raised in Central or South America.

PS. Don't like Americans? Can they have the Canal back?

[chileno 777]

I think everybody deserves a chance to work in any country they want. Nationality should never be a requirement IMO.



Probably the nationality is not a condition in USA and Europe but they DO require a residence permit. By the other hand, to fly in Brazil you need to be a national. Hence I truly believe that reciprocity must always be the rule between the countries.

[Bus Junkie]

In my small airline our standards captain, soon to be chief pilot, and three other captains are from El Salvador. We have two from Columbia and one from Chile. And no, we don't fly freight out of Miami (which really isn't part of the US anymore, even though it is a great city).
Um... What was the posters point?

[joethechinesepilot]

can you imagine trying to discuss politics or anything that requires rational thought with this numskull?

[belliott]

I see multiple things wrong with your argument. But as a gringo I may not have a right to comment on "your" thread.
1. Comair isn't hiring but if you did your research you would have known that.
2. I would rather fly a CRJ200 for low pay than an E190/B737 for the same amount of money.
3. As of right now there really aren't any jobs out there.... except expat jobs... but I guess we are all too arrogant... again according to you.
4. As for Panamanians who "deserve" a job at Copa.... you are out of your freakin' mind? A 500 hour pilot shouldn't be flying a CRJ much less something bigger.

No one should ever have to justify their employment with a company to anyone much less to a racist prick.

[gasguzzlerlatino]

Lets see if this reply gets posted, cause my first reply didn't , people don't like reading the truth apparently.
To summarize, there are several pilots that for being too picky they don't want to fly in their countries regionals , but they want to in other countries? Look at what they came to do in Panama, thankfully Copa is doing the right thing now.
I have heard it from my colleagues and not only crews from Copa, foreigners are there just for the flying, at least be polite, learn the culture, it doesnt take away anything to do so.
Why should the rest of the world or at least latin america be open towards foreign pilots (majorly gringos) and the US not be open towards foreigners as well? Why should we allow foreigners to jumpseat while, someone else don't? There is plenty of qualified colleagues in the region that are waiting for their turn because there really isnt as many vacants as in OTHER countries. Ill give it to you guys, it is the airlines fault as well for not giving priority in the past to nationals. However if there is no more locals and the airline still needs to fill vacants, then a foreigner , if he or she passes the tests, converts licenses ( if needed to) and does meet the other requirements then welcome, but until that there are a couple or regionals hiring right now up north.

[Robert Palmer]

I can understand why you are frustrated. Look at it from the airlines point of view, they want the best qualified candidate.

I am also a latino and I hate these evil white people that exploit our countries
Yadda, yadda, gringo this, gringo that.

Was that better?

[chileno 777]

We Northern Europeans are superior to any latin american out there - at everything


WTF:ugh:

Robert Palmer after that statement now the troll must be you. And some people wonder why "gringos" sometime are not welcome in South America. :=

[privateer01]

We Northern Europeans are superior to any latin american out there - at everything. I hope that answers your question regarding airlines predelection for gringos.


Now that was a racist rant too......:yuk:

Beaner? Really? You just had to type that? TOOL!

[Neptunus Rex]

El Capitano Toss Parker reincarnate!

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/gringo.gif

[Robert Palmer]

I get flamed for sarcastic remarks to an obvious windup?

How do you know I am not from Argentina? or Guyana?

Maybe some caucasian folks take offense to the reverse-racism-gringo-calling crap displayed here?

So now that we have established that...


... Anybody know some websites for finding employment in Latin America?

[privateer01]

I dunno...start in Panama tho.

You guys deserve each other.

Out

[GlueBall]

South America is not a mecca for expat airline jobs, but a mecca for the hottest looking babes, especially at CLO, BOG and CCS. :ok:

[gasguzzlerlatino]

Belliot,
Really, So I just happen to have a friend get hired in January at AE, which is one I mentioned and you are telling me I didnt do my research? As matter of fact, some of my good friends that happen to be gringos have gotten hired to fly CRJs with around 250 hours, don't think it only happens in latin america.


Glueball, you hit it right on the spot, there are beautifull women down south.

So most of the above say Im on a racist rant... take it how you like it. If I am not mistaken who are the ones that generalize and call non english speaking people "wetbacks, beaners, spics, etc"
Gringo is not even an insult and does not suggest anything like wetback , beaner , etc... I challenge anyone to tell me where the word gringo comes from, cause I know where the saying comes.

Anyways the point is there ARE jobs out there, do your research, I know it might be flying something you dont like, so what, at least you have openings. There is flight instructing as well, so what, a downgrade from flying heavy metal? It is still a job.
There are several countries that have shut the doors to fellow colleagues in the past, then reasonable it is for having reciprocity. If someone wants to jumpseat on X airline, then their airline should allow jumpseat from X airline as well.
And for the european who was quoted saying they are the best in whatever they do , good for you , if that floats your boat , great. In no wawy am I saying Latin americans we are superior to someone else at whatever, skin color and language doesnt mean anything :=when it comes to flying.

[Robert Palmer]

Gringo is a racist term, everybody can look that up on wikipedia. Pretty much any generalizing slang tends to be derogatory (look that up too).

... And while you are at it...
Look up "fluid time" and "rigid time", see which describes yourself.

Finally, thanks for the great advise on jobsearch, I wish I had 33 years of experience when I was 23...

I am done... This was my "reciprocity" for you my racist colleague

[joethechinesepilot]

just like Forrest Gump says, "beaner is as beaner does" if you want to act like the type of person representing your ethnicity by saying things out of total ignorance, then you are worthy of name.

[belliott]

Ummmm.... 7000+ pilots on the street and less than 500 pilots hired in the last 6 months by Colgan/AE... you do the math.
and in reference to your rebuttal of the 250 hr pilot.... I never said they didn't get hired I said they should not have been.... if you want to debate me over this drivel (especially when you aren't really reading what I am typing or having real facts in hand) I recommend taking it to PM's.

Gringo may not be a racial slur but it is insulting... just because one person utilizes these terms to bolster their pathetic vocabulary does not make it right or pardonable.

[6000PIC]

Gasguzzlerlatino , if you ever hope to be a real professional aviator , you must lose the attitude. Your know-it-all , racist , egotistic , and poor human skills will find you a smoking hole in the ground someday.

[HURZ]

It´s always up to the company to decide who they hire..... However, the unions can have a word as well, as long as the pilots stick together. I enjoy working for a Euro company with more than 30 nationalities. Latin fuelguz, calm down and see the world as it is. Try to get some experience in life and on the airplane...

[Fubaliera]

He has a point just doesnt have a clue how to express it. Aviation should be handled ina diplomatic way. For example, Mexico, Brazil,Ecuador by law only allow thier own born citizens to fly. In that case Mexicans,Brazilians or Ecuadorians should not be allowed to fly in the States(if they have green cards) unless there own country change there policy. Or for what it worth any other country until they open up their own countrys to expats.

[HURZ]

Fubaliera,

you got my point. I just tried to be diplomatic....

[Willie Everlearn]

gasguzzlerlatino

Your rants are somewhat immature, if I may state the obvious. Are you sure you've reached the ATPL level yet? I'm not sure you have.
Since you've indicated an interest in aviation, how about this. There is a pilot shortage gaining momentum worldwide. That would include Latin America. You have indicated that you are Latin American so there's no need to inform you on the impact that shortage will have at carriers like COPA. Since English is the international language of aviation you can do what you like with Espanol. Si? But in the final analysis, COPA wishes to serve nations beyond its' own borders, which includes a rather sizeable English speaking nation to the north. You're painting yourself into a bit of a corner my friend. I encourage you to open your eyes, your mind and your options. I'm sure you are capable of something with a lot more intellectual and professional content in your rants than you've delivered. :D
Aviation has gone global while you were asleep at the switch, which is another reason emerging nations and markets like Panama could use the expat help and there are expats who are willing to live and work in a third world country like Panama (not my definition but the United Nations definition of third world) and make it a win-win for applicant and COPA. :ok:

I feel your pain amigo. Panamanian flying jobs for Panamanians. When Panama runs out of 'acceptable' candidates, what then? Force them to hire candidates they may not wish to hire? Like English impaired, low time CPLs? :ugh:
Good solution. Not one iota of common sense. But a solution.

A country like America will not experience the kinds of pilot shortages other nations will, so to look for options like working in the U.S. as an expat, just isn't going to happen. There will be however, many other countries (like Panama) that will rely heavily on expat pilots as a solution. That's not news but that too is a reality.

Maybe you'd care to help find the solution or better yet, an answer? So far, you're just spewing charlie romeo alpha papa.

Willie :ok:

[Pugilistic Animus]

GGL

remember this "The Mountains the Storms and the Oceans don't know your name they know no-ones' name: not me, not you, no one"

Y no te insulto,...soy Latino tambien:rolleyes:

[Moretimeoff]

This is not intended at all Latinos. I have flown with quite a few Latinos who are great guys. Most of you are are one sided and sick in the cabeza by not wanting to let gringos fly in your country. When times are not good in the south you have no problem coming north illegally and reaping the bennefits of the welfare system up north or working here if you can find a job. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. So if you do not like it then the north should not let you work here and should deport all your realatives here legal or illegal. :D

[Pugilistic Animus]

It's not to say that racism does not exists:rolleyes:

but it's for the ground!

[Cruiseclimb]

That is very racist and in poor form.. but since we're here.. The reason "white" pilots were getting hired in the south was simply because they were qualified aviators when none were available in those countries at the time.. It had nothing to do with skin color... The wages being paid by Copa and the likes are dirt slave wages though.. so you can have your jobs in Panama.. Your women will still prefer us though :) I find that latin men from struggling economies are so egocentric, that it gets in the way of good cockpit CRM. Your racist post and rants are exactly what I'd expect from someone who has no self confidence and an over compensating ego. Usually means you have no skills my friend..

[TOFFAIR]

I dont get it, here in Latinamerica we must be among the worst paid pilots anyway (at least P2F not common here!), so even there is an interest for forweigners to join, they will leave asap again. It seems to me the problem is something the companies should consider, it want affect you as a local to get the job once you are qualified.
Racism is a bad approach anyway, disagree? maybe you should do only local flights instead :ugh:

[rcl7700]

My understanding was that most of Copa's pilots are Latin American and Spanish. How many "non-iberoamericanos" are there in Copa?

[Whatsit Doingnow]

Jobs for the locals I say it should be. Sure, when there aren't any more local people to fill the positions, then look elsewhere. But a country should be looking after it's own people first and not allowing foreign labour in unless they cannot get locals who are suitable for the position.

Having said that, if a country allows companies to employ foreigners ahead of their own people when there are locals available and qualified for the job, then don't blame the people that take the jobs. Blame the company for hiring them and the government for allowing the companies to hire them.

[Schickfuss]

That is all about ! EXCELLENT POST WHATSIT DOINGNOW ,100% I am agree with you ...

[NG_Kaptain]

Aviation is global, here in the Middle East we have pilots from every single Latin American Country, from Mexico all the way to Argentina. Should they be excluded because other nationals are not allowed to fly in most Latin American countries?

[PTY_girl]

Oh my...to the OP...are you panamanian? Yo tambien...

If we go down to the "jobs for nationals only" then me, and all our colleages in the Middle East and all over the world should lose theirs too? And go back to Panama to get slave wages with the one and only "proper" airline, because, you know, it's OUR national airline and all that?
Come on.

Think of the other side of the coin: Some of us left Panama as well, and to some people, we are taking their jobs as well. But the main reason why we got the jobs in the first place is because at the moment of hiring, we were the most capable. Nationality had nothing to do there, and I find anybody who implies that aviation jobs are given only because of that, very insulting, for me and for them.

Now, I sense a lot of frustration as well because the "arrogance" of the expats. Newsflash: It's the same EVERYWHERE. You are going to find nasty people from all nationalities and amazing, nice people from all nationalites too. People who will blend with the nationals, and people who would rather stay as they are. So what? As long as they behave in a professional manner and do their jobs as they should, I can't care less about their "arrogance". I have my friends, I don't need their friendship too.

And, remember, at the end of the day, the one who decided to pick them up over nationals was COPA. They just went for the job and got it. Why getting angry and annoyed at them?

[NG_Kaptain]

Well said PTY....No soy panameño, but that guy is way off base.

[Wyle E Coyote]

This doesn't look like a racist rant to me, it's just some 250 hour pilot who's just returned home (probably from flight school in the US) to discover no one will hire him. He's bitter, disillusioned, and is suffering from the post CPL "poor me's"

I've been doing the Expat pilot thing for a number of years now, and it's the same in every country I've lived in. The local airlines won't hire the locals because all they have to offer is a new CPL. The locals get pissed off because they think they're qualified for the job..... and no amount of explaining the value of EXPERIENCE to them does any good.

It's simply a case if not knowing what you don't know.

Believe me, when you have the same experience you'll get the job, because you're local or you hold the right passport. That's not racist, it simply makes sense. Every airline want's to hire their own people first, but until their own people have the required experience, it's Gringos for you.

life's a bitch huh?

[marketaero]

quite the comment there...

this is just a case of open market, outsourcing or whatever you want to call it.

Some Americans are too proud to getting a salary cut or work more for the same salary. So they prefer to look for better opportunities or just remain unemployed.

Not the case for this posting as some Americans are resourceful enough to compete in Latin American market.

As an Hispanic, would you prefer to compete against a weak or a strong player?

In my humble opinion, if you compete against a strong player, you end up learning a lot.

[johns7022]

Plenty of jobs overseas...maybe not at the airlines because the country's regs say no foreigners.....but the jobs are there, for the guy that wants to hop on a plane and get infront of someone and try to make it happen...the pay might not be 'US'...but hey...living in Rio, shacking up with a Carioca has it's benefits....

If someone local wants to rant about the gringos taking his jobs, well, we got same whiners up here complaining that they take our jobs...in reality..if the owners of planes, just hired the most experienced guys...not race or nationality, we would all be better off...

[Gusz]

to the OP...
Buddy... get a clue...

[flyingswiss]

I'm a pilot living in Brazil, I'm not Brazilian and this stupid law here does not allow me to work, btw if the govt would allow it there would be no more jobs for Brazilians that got their training here, standards are really low, most pilots I flew with (lots, since I can't act PIC I need to hire some guy to fly around and keep current), most of them would not pass an FAA PPL ck ride, aeronautical knowledge is piss poor. I also met lots of pilots with fake hours in their logbooks...but they fly for Azul, Passaredo....


ANAC is a mess, nothing works (like most things in Brazil), the ck pilots don't even know the planes they are giving a ck in.....

Never saw anybody doing performance calculation or W&B.

But everybody is happy to tell you it's a COMANDATE!!!!BS

Brazil should remember who built aviation here!!!

As a kid I lived in Guatemala, I do understand some of the points that the author of this thread pointed out....

[Charlie Alfa]

Flying Swiss

I hope you are joking...i used to live in swizerland some years ago and know how the stuff works there.


Brazil doesn´t needs you, go back to your country...Why Not?

[flyingswiss]

No I'm not joking.

I know Brazil really well (and I speak portoguese fluently), since I was a kid I use to come here. My dad worked here for many years, he worked for the many foreign companies that built things here (sometimes with foreign money), before the govt took over everything.

I know Brazilian aviation pretty well, I use to be a CFI where some FAB pilots were trained and my girlfriends dad is a former Varig Capt (but he flew in ASIA, MIDDLE EAST, EUROPE and USA.....he started flying with that company that the govt crashed, remember that?), now he is a CFI for EMB, teaching Brazilians crews (he is the only Brazilian CFI the rest are Americans and Europeans).

I came to Brazil, I have an RNE (I'm not illegal here like many are in my home country), in september, guess what, I don't have my license yet. One of my friends did everything with me, he is Brazilian, he got the license in 5 months, during his ck ride the ANAC (one of their Comandante) cut one of the engines totally (something you were not supposed to do in that model), the engine and couldn't start it anymore, the poor twin comanche was not able to keep altitude (4 peoples on board) and they were going down and had to do an emergency landing in Cabo Frio. Btw they took-off overweight and out of CG.
You know how long it took to the ck airman to schedule the ck ride, about a month.....

One of the ANAC ck airmans even trains illegaly, if you want the name just PM, he owns is own C310, charges 1200 R$ hour, nobody of the students gets the 15 hours, they just fly less but log 15 hours, and the guy works for ANAC!!!!

Do you work for lider? just let you know that one of your pilots has 800 fake hours in his logbook...you think I'm making this up?

ANAC makes you take the English test? why? I have it on my foreign license....guess what the wait was, 4 months (when I did the test i was the only one there)? and I could get it done only in SP, had to fly there....btw the test is not the same you do in other ICAO country, even a pedreiro could get a 4 here.

What's funny is that ANAC never asked to see my logbook, my foreign one, they just told me to turn in a CIV.......

One more pearl, I went to Jacarepagua to take the Air law exam, I was cleared by the ANAC to do so, when I got there the engenheiro civil working there (no aviation background) tells me I can't take the test, I went back to ANAC (oh yeah they don't answer phones) after a week i finally take the test, the gave me the wrong one, after the 10. question on helicopters I ask the guy if this was the right test...well i had to take it again.

I flew in the USA, Europe (in the Air Froce), Central America and Brazil...well I think I can judge how things work....

Why I'm in Brazil, I'm here to invest in aviation, I'm planning to get peoples involed in GA. Starting a Flying club, with aircraft rental (like an American FBO), flight school, do something like in the US...but if you can't bring votes to somebody nobody will help you here...

Since you have been to Switzeralnd, you could help out frequencia livre, so they can put correct informations about my country on their magazine...they don't answer my e-mails.


un amabraco

Alex

[flyingswiss]

I'm not saying all Brazilians pilots are bad, it s not their fault, it's the GA here that sucks, the flight schools (I flew at many) are pretty bad.
There is no CRM here!!!!!

I did some Gemini flights with two guys taking their Multi engine license, never, never, never saw doing a Vmc demo in the total of 30 hours I flew with them.......what you say about this? One time the Ac had a part missing, something on the door of the landing gear, well the airplane still flies, but because that part was missing the up lock switch of the landing gear would not not engage, so the landing gear light would never turn off from the transition position when retracted....last time I checked that part has to be there to be airworthy.

I flew on a ck ride flights to, in the Corisco, the ck airman did the landings and the CFI in the back with me was teaching him, the student was just like wtf.....

At this aeroclube where I'm a member they have a paulisthina the airplane was grounded for a while, one of the bush that keeps the strut together broke off, one day they told me it was fixed and that I could fly the plane, so I went there, I asked to see inside the cover (just to ck if the work was done right), I couldn't believe my eyes, they just put one of those elestic straps you use to secure things on the roof of a car to hold it together.

At the same shop where they fixed this they work on half a million cirruses...btw nobody speaks english there but all the mx manuals are in english.....

The problem here in Brazil is ANAC and everything DAC has done in the past, they destroyed GA

I wanted to bring a US registred AC and build an international flying school. In the past a lot of peoples use to come to train in Brazil, many from Portugal and Holland (but ANAC now makes this impossible). I'm able to teach in a N registred and give non primary ck rides in it (I wanted to do something like Orbi does in Europe). I started looking for a field where to base it, I found it, I would have my own Hangar and clubhose for pilots, the airport admin told me that I would have to pay almost twice for AVGAS and pay landing fees, what? i'm trying to invest and bring jobs and money!!!
Btw ever flew in Argentina? the AVGAS there is petrobras, they sell it almost half then in Brazil....

I have a ton of stories....

one more for you, I was at this airport in MG, a G5 landed there from the US, both pilots where american, I entered the airport from the C room, becaus eI wanted to talk to the pilots (they where both former Flight Safety Instructors in Savannah), when I got close to the AC, one of the sinart guys takes my arm and tells me I can't stay on the airport because I'm not a pilot, i had my license with me and the guy told me that I need to have a Brazilian license...this at an International airport!!!!!! so I had to leave, that evening the same sinart guy went with his family to take pictures of the plane.....

An other time, still in MG, I was comming in to land, at the same time there was TRIP ATR, here in Brazil there is no use of common sense by the controllers, and they told me I would have to leave the airport to make space for the ATR in the pattern (for some reason here piston and turbine airplanes fly the pattern at the same altitude!!!), i told the guy that i could do a right traffic so the ATR would have the time to overtake me and land on the other side, the controller told me that right traffic is not allowed, you can only make left traffic, i asked him what he wants me to do he gace me a heading and total forgot about me....

At the same airport I was about 5 miles out, the controller told me to follow a a R22 in the pattern, I told the controller that my plane is going to stall at the R22 pattern speed, he was like just slow down...I devide to do a not authorized 360..I don't care....well here in Brazil helicopters have to fly the same way airplanes do, when i got in final that R22 was still taxing on the runway (he can't cut over the grass) to the taxiway at the other end of the runway, I had to go around....when i was on the climb out I ear an ATR on the approach...I was about to cry.....why the hell helicopter here have to fly like airplanes?

[flyingswiss]

I can't forget to post this two other stories

We flew to BH one time, the NOTAM reported that there was problems with the VOR and it could not be used for the approach, only for the STAR, there was no way to leave the STAR VMC and land, I told the controller to divert to the other BH airport and do the NDB...but guess what the rest of the planes were actually flying the approach even with the NOTAm of problems with the VOR, when flying on the star the needle was out 15 deg from what the GPS said.....

This one is the best:

One of the students I did the Gemini with, planned an IFR flight to Rio, with a landing in Galeao. In the flight plan we put that the airplane was not GPS equipped (if you want to fly to galeo they tell you you should have GPS), the wetaher in Rio was bad and when we departed Galeo they gave us the GPS DP, what we filed that we don't have a GPS. The CFI takes an hand held garmin and we fly the DP with that, in IMC!!!!! he told me that DEP does not give vectors and this is the only way of doing the flight!!

Not to mention that here they use hand held GPSs in Lieu of a DME!!!!
One time I asked one of the many ATPL CFIs over here if he knew what slant range was...

and I can't believe ANAC does not allow a cirrus to fly an NDB approach with the GPS!

[flyingswiss]

The Brazilain regulation, if you read them well, actually allow in some way for a foreign to work here as a pilot. The regulation says if there is reciprocity in the country the pilots comes from he is allowed to act as a CPL pilot, lots of englsih pilot have used this to come here an fly helicopters. I got a letter from FOCA for ANAC, but at ANAC they do what they want and they still stopped my process and they tell me I can't get the CPL license.....how did the Englissh guy made it then, well the helicopters they fly they are at petrobras service.....this is BS

here the document:

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac113/ExpatAviator/FOCA.jpg

[alemaobaiano]

Alex

Your postings come across as the bitter ranting of someone who can't get a job here.....everything in Brazil is complete crap, according to you. Pilots, controllers, the aviation authorities, airport owners and operators, flying clubs, and Zé Mané who sweeps the runway :ugh: If it's that bad, why would you want to invest?

You might be trying to make some real points, but your posts go a very long way to confirming the attitudes alluded to by the OP, insulting everything and everyone because you can't get what you want.

What paragraph of the aviation regulations covers reciprocity? I have never come across this, so I would like to read it for myself, as would a friend of mine from ANAC, who despite your very clear insinuations, isn't actually a complete moron.

There have always been special cases where a foreign pilot may be employed for commercial operations, on a temporary basis, where they are in possession of particular skills that cannot be found on the national market. Long over-water helicopter operations would probably fall into that category.

I'm with Charlie Alfa on this, Brazil doesn't need you to save it.

TTFN

[alemaobaiano]

The Brazilain regulation, if you read them well, actually allow in some way for a foreign to work here as a pilot. The regulation says if there is reciprocity in the country the pilots comes from he is allowed to act as a CPL pilot, lots of englsih pilot have used this to come here an fly helicopters. I got a letter from FOCA for ANAC, but at ANAC they do what they want and they still stopped my process and they tell me I can't get the CPL license.....how did the Englissh guy made it then, well the helicopters they fly they are at petrobras service.....this is BS

It took me all of 10 minutes to find this one out.

Bristow owns 42.5% of Lider, and Lider are wet leasing S-92s from Bristow to meet the extended Petrobras requirements for 3 of the type. There are very few S-92 rated Brazilian pilots at the moment, hence the need for wet lease.

So it has absolutely nothing to do with reciprocity, and everything to do with practicality. The British crews will not be operating commercial flights, there will be no fare paying passengers on-board, so it doesn't contravene any regulations.

TTFN

[flyingswiss]

My point is to say that in Brazil there is not the willing of making a nice GA, the authorities put all kinds of obstacles, this way things will never work.

If you never left Brazil aviation wise you can't understand some of my points. I have been to South East Asia, over there things work really similar than in Brazil (outside aviation), but there is a big willing in investing in aviation, in GA, I'm not talking about airlines here! They are building airparks and new airports, they open military airport to the GA. Brazil has lot more money and his way better of then this places, but there is not the willing of doing anything.
I'm not interested to come here and fly for an airline (and get paid what a maid gets in my own country), I'm here to invest in aviation, I don't want a job, I want to make jobs, I want to build a school with some good standards (before you say flight school are good in Brazil tell my if you ever flew anywhere else).

It's not that I can't get a job, trust me I have more qualification and hours then any Azul, Ocean or Passaredo FO.

Everything I said above are facts, I lived that..are you really say this is ok!

[AEST]

Flyingswiss,

Having flown an N-reg in Brazil and having some work done on it there I am afraid I have to agree to a large extent with your observations.

Unfortunately the Brazilian state is full of incompetents and a nightmare to deal with. Foreigners seem to be viewed as "targets" to be ripped off. Don't expect it to change any time soon. However, I find most private firms involved in the business helpful and often competent.

May I suggest you consider Paraguay or Bolivia to set up your operation as they are much more GA-friendly. (Bolivian state even pay half your fuel bill :))

[The Dominican]

One thing that I have learned in my going on three decades in this business is that good and experienced pilots never ever state that they are good and experienced, and when you have been flying and training for a long time you also develop a six sense to spot the self proclaimed "God gifts to aviation" and without exception it always turn out to be a pathetic character behind those proclaims.

[alemaobaiano]

Alex

I applaud your intentions but not your attitude.

Yes GA here could be much better, and I have no problems accepting your stories as true, I have experienced similar situations away from my "home" aeroclube. But surely you know by now that Brazilians do not take kindly to being told that their country is a sh!thole by arrogant gringos? This is the kind of attitude the OP was referring to, and you won't get anywhere unless you try a different approach.

BTW, in 35 years in the aviation industry I've worked in Europe, the US, various Gulf states and several countries in Latin America, so I have seen how it works (or not) in other places.

TTFN

[flyingswiss]

My family and my investor both live here in Brazil.

The reason I started with this idea is because it was so hard to find a job here as foreign in the first place.

Brazil is a nice place, but the govt is really strict with anything coming in from outside, just look at the car prices, and the taxes on anything built abroad. My dad has worked here in the past and he keeps telling me that it did not use to big like this, that foreign investors were welcome.


How much do you know about GA in Bolivia? My cousin actually works for the govt there..


I was thinking of starting something in South east Asia, GA there is amazing (Thailand, Malaysia and even Cambodia), there are entire airports for sale (really cheap)....but as I said my family is here now.

[AEST]

Don't really know too much about Bolivia, but stopped there a couple of times as the friendly customs folks in Brasil wouldn't let me extend stay without handing over 10% of the value of the aircraft (in maintenance in Brazil)

Once you get your permit for entry it's all quite good, no more hazzle. Still remember I was there "visiting", not "establishing".

As I said fuel is half price (that's half the US price), people extremely helpful, and everything else is cheap too. Hence you should be able to set up a pretty competitive operation. If you want my contact at the local CAA, send me a PM.

Paraguay is even more relaxed, but fuel is normal price.

[TOFFAIR]

How long are you in Brazil? I think you can build a flight school here, but its not going to happen the way you expect... btw the experiences I had with BAZL in Switzerland werent easy either!
If you re serious about getting a flight school here, PM me, could be handy...
regards

[flyingswiss]

@TOFFAIR, I saw you are from Germany, where you flying for LTU?

[TOFFAIR]

ex SRAS, flew DE and LH, but im Brazilian. Live here now. And though I had a similar impression on how aviation is here, specially in regard to GA, I believe there are plenty of opportunities now. Its hard to do something new here, but its worth to be persistent! There are good examples in commercial aviation to prove it. I hope the infrastructural environement improves, hopeful some might be done by the private sector!
cheers!:ok:

[Fern271]

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