Afghanistan Civil Helicopter Ops

[Bitmonx]

I am interested if any of you guys out there working in Afghanistan could give some info about how the flying is there.

[rick1128]

Bit, I operated there in 2004 and 2006 and while much has changed, much has not either. I was operating a Lear 35 at the time so there are some differences. Depending on what part of the country you are operating out of plan on MEA's that range from about 5000 feet to 21000 feet. The lowest airport is Sheberghan at 1050 feet MSL and the highest is Kabul at 5877 MSL. As of right now, I don't know of any airport in the Northeast portion of the country. The area is known as the Hindu Kush and is part of the Himalaya Mountain chain.

Depending on who you are operating for, you will need PPR's for the various airports. In 2006 there were only 3 airports with approaches, Kandahar had a PAR, Bagram had a Helicopter GPS and Kabul had a VOR/DME and an ILS. The ILS wasn't working the last time I was there due as the airport kept plugging it into the wrong power source.

The US and NATO have been working to improve the airports. Many have been resurfaced. In 2006 Konduz and Jalalabad were probably the two roughest airports in the world. They actually made the Russian airport in Siberia look smooth. Here in the US they probably wouldn't qualify as an abandoned airport. Support is poor at best. Fuel MAY be available at some airports, depending on who you are operating for. There are only a couple of navaids, so you will rely on your GPS. So I would plan on having two installed and carrying a handheld as a backup.

Have fun as it will be an adventure. I enjoyed my time there and wouldn't trade it for anything, but I wouldn't go back again if I had any other options.

[9Aplus]

Approx week ago AN124 (Ruslan) unloaded 3 x Mi171 (upgraded in ATE Poprad) in
Kanadhar. Helicopters belong to one Canadian co, perhaps you can ask them from
first hand....

[Bitmonx]

Thanks Rick,

I know CHL has flown 2 S-61 Helicopters to Kabul or Kandahar with an Antonov 225.

Supposedly there will be more contracts available by Fall.

I am kind of thinking about to possibility of working over there but the thought still scares me, especially the getting captured part and not the getting shot at part is the one that would worry me.......

[rick1128]

Bit,

I would worry more about the bad air and water. The air and the water in Afghanistan, especially in Kabul is probably the dirtiest in the world. Lots of dust in the air. Add in the exhaust fumes from all the old Russian trucks they still use there. You'll spend a lot of time coughing and hacking. Much of the time the visibility will be around 2KM.

[hueyracer]

I tried to get a foot in the door there....but even with experience in Afghanistan-it seems to be impossible to get in...

They are mainly operating MilMi 8 /17, which are flown by pilots from the eastern countries....which fly for less money than anyone else would do..

[zlocko2002]

well there are not much western pilots qualified for Mi-8/17.

[jetA1pilot]

Did a stint there on 212s, not sure if anyone has moved 412s in - there was talk of a contract being closed towards the end of '09 but haven't heard more.

Give a lot of thought to the risk vs reward, especially if you have a family and/or dependants. Read the fine print of your insurance policies very carefully before you go!

Our fixed wing drivers had 'managable' risk in their flight ops, routes & destinations but on the helo side you are basically a civilian performing a military role with none of the cover or benefits to match.

Yes, the money can be good and some of the guys have been doing it for years and have a pot of $$ to show for it but IMHO you should go only if you have no other options and only if you feel the risk is mitigated.

[hueyracer]

Been there, done that....

I have been there twice (as mentioned before), and am trying to find a company to go again, which seems to be impossible for a NON-US-citizen...


So-if anybody of you should here about open positions-gimme a hint!


Yeah-it´s dangerous....but if you had been a military pilot, you are used to the risk.........but everbody has to make this decision for himself...

If you earn 1 million $-it is not worth if you cannot spend the money......:=

[Bitmonx]

huey,

why do you need to be us citizen? there are other companies working FOR the us government. afaik only a background check for a low level security clearance is required.

still nobody posting that is currently in afghanistan........

[hueyracer]

All companies i have applied for an open position answered, that they would need US citizenship...

I already have a NATO-secret security clearance which is also valid in the US-so that shouldn´t be the problem..

Maybe i am not able to find the right ads....?

[9Aplus]

still nobody posting that is currently in afghanistan........ Maybe people there are busy, in attempt to stay alive :},
from RPG in tail during landings and take offs....:ugh:

[zlocko2002]

does anybody have expiriance in training ANA pilots?

[Nubian]

About CHL,

Used the search option and got this result from an earlier thread:
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/364914-afghanistan-work.html

May explain a bit

[grizzled]

hueyracer

check ur PMs


grizz

[helialan]

Everett Aviation in Nairobi have got a UN contract in Iraq and are looking for BK117 pilots and enigneers.

[VikingBill]

Is this information new??? Thanks

[hueyracer]

Just take a look at the Everest Website...
It´s published there.

I have applied two days ago-until now: No reaction...

(Not even an automatic "received" message)...

[afghan stan]

It depends on where in Afghanistan you are based. There are high mountains, strong winds, bad weather, severe dust storms, bad guys everywhere. We have been shot at numerous times with small arms and RPG's. It;s hot in the summer and cold in the winter. The living conditions are alright. The pay is good. No women, booze or guns for the crews. It's not for those who are afraid to die!!

[Epiphany]

Just for idiots then Stan?

[Bitmonx]

Stan, how recent was the last attack? How long have you been flying there? Are you flying there military or civil ops?

Thanks Stan

[tribal]

If You have a wife you still like and kids...i wouldnt come here.
You will get shot at...and probably more times than you realize. The weather in winter is difficult particularly because of freezing rain and low vis. Weather in summer and this time of year is low vis especially in Kabul and eastern areas. Although this year I cant complain so far. There are many russian crews here...they radio work from them is nothing short of shockingly poor...and flight skill not far behind....you need to watch for them constantly.
The mountainous east and north is as you would expect from any seriously large mountain ranges...so if you would like to come it may be better if you have or gain experience in this arena. there is a lot of high altitude routes.
There is booze, if you are in Kabul....but should you go out at night its a good idea to tag along with your security people.....probably safer to stay indoors...and there are no guarantees of safety there either.
Every month or so a helicopter is brassed up....sometimes with fatal endings sometimes not.
You will get the runs not long after you arrive...thats a given. Kabul has more human waste in the atmosphere than any other city in the world...( Told to me personally by an individual who was sent here to test for air quality)there are open sewers lining roads. there are guns everywhere...and there is regular suicide bombers or car bombs.
Over to you guys...some love the place...you may come here and return home safely and then again you may not.....

[rick1128]

Not only are the Russian crews radio work poor, they outright lie about where they are on position reports and even when they don't they are way off from where they actually are.

[zlocko2002]

Did anybody have any experience with Afghanistan crews?

[9Aplus]

Most of commercialy operated MTVs have some kind of position report HW either civilan or NATO one.... so lies are relative things....:}
Russiian Flight skills?!, is not questionable, afrer all they are there in ops 20Y ++ , English language is, try with Eussian than, Votka is real issue only:{

[tribal]

Hey Rick 1128....You hit the nail right on the head there!
And 9Aplus.....load of rubbish...because a nationality has operated in an area for 20+ years...does not inherently pass along skill.....That is whether any skill existed in the first place....and with observation, I doubt it.
They do, I agree have skill with vodka, perhaps far too much....and that skill is in the eyes of the beholder...To the rest of us they appear a sad and inept sight indeed.....

[9Aplus]

It is easy to underestimate the world, someone do not know enough or at all....:)
Either with skills or technology :E

[tribal]

A9plus...I can see how you think russian crews are to be revered......good luck to you....

[hueyracer]

I have worked with russian crews in Balkan operations and in Sudan...

Sometimes they think.....different..

When eastern pilots add twice the safety margin, they take one-if necessary.

Once you understand their way of thinking, it is okay to work with them..

But if you work with them-leave the wodka and stay with beer.....believe me-it is better for you!

[AlfonsoBonzo]

I might get the chance to go to there later in the year but I need some input from you guys who have been there or are there at the moment.

I didnt find the info in the other posts about Afghanistan so here are some questions I would hope someone would please answer.

- What kind of flights are being done by the civilian operators there. (CHL etc) Is it mostly moving crew and supplies?

- Should you expect to get shot at a lot?

- Do the aircraft have armed personnel on board on every flight?

- What kind of accommodation is there?

- And what is the average pay per day?

Any useful info would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Bonzo

[hueyracer]

And what is the average pay per day?


If you have to ask that question, it looks like you´re far away from getting a job down there-otherwise you would already know...


Afghanistan has been and still is a hostile environment-and a high-risk danger area.

It is not only the flying that is dangerous over there-even BEING there is dangerous.
You´ll find yourself in the bunker several times on your rotation because you have incoming rockets into the camp-if you´re lucky enough to make it to the bunker before the impacts...

Lot´s of people work over there-most of them are getting back home in one piece and healthy..
Others don´t...


Unfortunately, nobody can foresee which category you´ll join.....

[Thai Pom]

Did the old TAS S-61's ever make it to the "stan"?

[Outwest]

They sure did :ok:

[zlocko2002]

and it is not Russian crews one needs to be worried about, its French!

[seccon]

Hello folks,well another year almost complete lets hope the new one brings happyness for us all.

Me well just another guy hopeing to follow a dream and fly commercially ex mil not aviation working in one of the hotspots of the world beginning with Afg,doing security contracting .

so my question is to those who may be in the know what companys are working out this way besides evergreen ,exion, dyncorp, seen a few red and white ch46 flying about.

Why well just investigating what work options may be available for a crew member who has all his psd qualifications and 5 years experience working in the country and is also taking the plunge towards qualification for a proffessional rotary licence during his leave rotations.

Yep it is a lot of questions but if you dont ask you dont get am also trawling previous posts to see if that reveals a few gems of info.

Well thats all for now folks any assistance greatly appreciated just leaves me to wish you all a slightly early happy new year.

Regards Steve

[fly4cash-ride4fun]

I recently left Afghanistan.
Yes, most operators have contracts with Department of Defense and require US citizenship in order to process a security clearance.

They include, but not limited to:
Dyncorp: CH-46, Bell 212 - Kabul and Kandahar
Evergreen: 214 / Puma Kandahar
AAR Airlift Group: S-61 - Kabul, Kandahar, various other locations
CHL has S-61 in Masir Sharif.

I am now in Iraq: for the post about Everett Aviation, there are 2 BK-117 flying here out of Bahgdad. We have talked briefly with the Everett Pilots. Sorry, no other info.

If you can go there, you must consider quality of life (living conditions), work rotation, and of course, money and benefits. As it varies from one to another.
My opinion, it is not as dangerous as some here have expressed. But then I have been there many years, and I have been shot at. Just not often.

[Afghan_Ops]

As to the requirement for US citizenship, we have a lot of chaps from South Africa, Holland, Germany etc flying on various contracts. It all depends on the company. USAID and UN have lots of aircraft in theater although most of the rotary assets there at MI-8.

There are also lots of shady companies flying fixed wing here.

While is can be sporty, most Afghans had enough of war and want to survive themselves. Having spent time in Africa, Afghanistan is not as bad as some other places in the late 80's and 90's.

[Grenville Fortescue]

DOD Contracts Keep U.S. Helicopter Operators Busy in Afghanistan

http://www.ainonline.com/sites/default/files/styles/article/public/uploads/s92_loading_passengers_2-_copy.jpg?itok=v5lJxfyF (http://www.ainonline.com/sites/default/files/uploads/s92_loading_passengers_2-_copy.jpg)

In Afghanistan, soldiers still pull the trigger. Civilian contractors do almost everything else. While the U.S. and its allies may be preparing for a troop draw-down there next year, for the contractors flying an assortment of 50 helicopters in country, things have never been busier or better.

This eclectic fleet, everything from well worn Russian Mi-8s to almost brand-new Sikorsky S-92s, hauls troops, support personnel, supplies, ammunition and the mail from seven main bases to the forward operating bases and areas in some of the most difficult conditions imaginable. Pilots fly nine to ten hours a day, six days a week, in mostly un-air-conditioned, older helicopters such as the 50-year-old Sikorsky S-61, in an environment where the ubiquitous fine dust clogs engines and other moving parts, in mountainous terrain with highly changeable weather and extreme temperatures–from below freezing with horizontal snow to 120 degrees F. Occasionally, they get shot at. Once in a while they crash. Rarely, they die.

The helicopters are generally kept out in the open and that is where the maintenance is done no matter the weather. The helicopters fly hard, from 100 to 270 hours a month. The avionics–for the most part are VFR basic: upgraded radios and GPS. The pilots, crew and staff live on the same bases as the troops and eat the same food, housed in everything from furnished barracks to bare-bones tents and no indoor plumbing. They rotate in for 28- to 60-day shifts, then 28 to 30 days’ leave. Some have flown there before–in uniform, often with multiple tours of duty, but for significantly less pay.

The individual pay and contractor company revenues are lucrative, substantially above the civil rate in the U.S., reflecting operational costs and risks. Last year six civil helicopter companies–AAR Airlift, Canadian Helicopters, Columbia Helicopters, Construction Helicopters, Evergreen Helicopters and Vertical De Aviacion–received $417.9 million for their work in Afghanistan. This year that amount is expected to grow to $783.2 million, according to the Pentagon. A combination of new construction projects and the draw-down are keeping the rotors spinning. The new facilities are being custom built for forces anticipated to remain after next year, and they are likely to require civilian airlift support for years, if not decades, to come.

DOD Contracts Keep U.S. Helicopter Operators Busy in Afghanistan | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aviation-international-news/2013-06-04/dod-contracts-keep-us-helicopter-operators-busy-afghanistan)

[beebo]

Has anyone flown for BDS recently? Rotations? Good outfit?
Thanks

[pbarlow]

Hi Afghan Stan. This is Patricia in San Francisco ex pat Kiwi. You mentioned that you were in AFG flying in the mountains etc. Do you know anything at all about the Tryco helicopter that flew into the side of a mountain on July 26 2006? All 12 passengers and the crew were killed? If you have any information or have flown the route - which was between Kabul and khost - send me an email. [email protected] ph 415 977 1107 skype if pbarlowsf
Thanks Also I am interested in the weather in the mountains in AFG.
Patricia Barlow

[pbarlow]

Hi
I was wondering if you ever flew in the mountains between Kabul and Khost in 2006? If you did I would like to have an opportunity to talk to you. Also what radio frequency was needed to operate successfully when flying in the AFG mountains in 2006? Was it HFR? Look forward to your reply.
Patricia

[heli1]

Looking to sue someone??