Swiss Air Wednesday night

[crwjerk]

What happened to the Swiss A340 on wednesday night in Hong Kong? Anybody know???? ATC????

[hekokimushi]

finally someone bringing it up. i was thinking how the hell did it coverup so well

[bin-gou_bin-gou]

more ...... please!

[Near Miss]

Is that the one that was issued the incorrect SID via PDC? Ended up flying the OCEAN 2 or something over Kowloon in the middle of the night.

[Harbour Dweller]

Swiss A340 stranded halfway down taxiway J with No 4 engine damage & all tyres deflated on right hand main bogie.

Pax were disembarked via stairs & returned to terminal by bus. Aircraft surrounded by fire trucks & engineers trying to work out how to move it.

[BuzzBox]

Some kind of wheel failure apparently. One of the hubs blew apart during taxi, throwing bits into the No 4 engine. Caused extensive damage.

[crwjerk]

Yeah we taxied past as it occurred, couldn't hang around to find out unfortunately, but heard the Pilots asking what damage was evident.......

[N1 Vibes]

Would have been easier if the pilots had asked what wasn't damaged :\

Hub failure of some sort, tyre exited stage right at near light-speed, boing-boing, must have bounced somehow, flipped up, then took out 2x c-ducts on the #4. My guess is BER on the c-ducts. Engine itself was pretty lucky.

But of course this is only a rumour I heard from the guy that shines the shoes in Terminal 1......

Happy Flying,

N1 Vibes:ok:

[Tornado Ali]

Hard to believe that a tire can damage an engine when only taxying..? Surely there was enough clearance between #4 and the ground...?

[Busdude]

Have a look at another thread running on jetblast concerning the American Captain who was killed holding on to a car tyre. Follow that on to the Mythbusters tyre explosion segment. You'll probably treat tyres with more respect from now on.

[mephisto88]

Air under pressure can indeed be a great propellant, ask the mechanic who was shot in the butt :eek: by the top of a LOX cylinder that some idiot was incorrectly working on, from over 20 metres away, almost killed the poor bloke.
So large amounts of damage caused by exploding tyres would not be surprising.

[hongkongpilot]

You'll probably treat tyres with more respect from now on.

O:eek::eek::eek:...I would not kick the tyres again during walkaround !

[Capt Toss Parker]

My hot tip for the day is when you're unsure about anything, enter the hold and dial up IOC, have them patch you through to the RAAF headquarters in Australia or my place in Kowloon. I'll personally enter a deep meditation and channel the aviation god and deliver divine aeronautical advice from the creator.

Another option is to run a CRM model and work through the problem in a clear and concise manner. I like to use the "T.O.S.S" model when things get a bit curly.

T ... Talk about yourself like you've never talked before
O... Observe the faces of those pretending to listen
S ... See the guy next to you burst into tears from laughter
S ... Seek help for delusions of grandeur

I'll be signing autographed copies of FCOMs today in the street, $19.95 and the proceeds go to NAMBLA :ok:

[HKAforever]

A more interesting question is what can cause this tire burst at HKG?

[Fac6]

Captain TP,

Whilst that post had me laughing any chance we can keep this thread on topic?

Fac6 :ok:

[freightdog188]

just a bit of info on how dangerous aircraft tyres are:
the first inflation of a newly assembled aircraft wheel after a tyre change is normally done in a steel cage. they rarely fail, but if they do they could kill anyone standing nearby.

[Toe Knee Tiler]

So the next time that I inflate the wheels of the Volkswagen I should stand in a steel cage. Have I got this right?

[nitpicker330]

the first inflation of a newly assembled aircraft wheel after a tyre change is normally done in a steel cage. they rarely fail, but if they do they could kill anyone standing nearby.

I've had Engineers change many tyres on the 777 and never once did they put a cage around the wheel before inflating it? Was it pre-inflated before arriving at the a/c perhaps?

[freightdog188]

exactly. Once the wheels are assembled they are stored pre-inflated.

@ TKT .. Volkswagen wheels aren't usually assembled by bolting 2 half-hubs into a tubeless tyre, so you can breathe a sigh of relief, now that you're out of mortal danger ;)

[spannersatcx]

Tyre change - when a wheel assy goes to the wheel overhaul facility to replace the worn out tyre. This is when it is inflated in a cage.

Wheel change - when a worn out wheel assy is removed from an a/c.

Wheel assy's are normally stored at 40psi not 200psi, once on they are inflated to the nominal pressure. You'll notice that those inflating the tyre on the a/c stand in line with the wheel assy, so should the hub fail it doesn't take their legs off.

[Steve the Pirate]

Check this out. It's a bit long but does show what can happen to tyres.

YouTube - Airbus A340-600 Rejected Take-Off test (subtitles) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRzWp67PIMw)

STP

[SMOC]

The heat shields had been removed for weight reduction. (they were replaced for #2 test).

The result was the rims failed before the fuse plugs managed to do their job due to the rapid heat transfer.

[Steve the Pirate]

This is getting a bit off-thread but why try to reduce weight? I thought the test had to be done at MTOW.

STP

[bigjames]

its front page news in the SCMP today...

[HKAforever]

The SCMP story seems to be hinting at "foreign object" on taxiway. The question is, what "foreign object" on the taxiway can cause the tire to explode like that?

South China Morning Post Simon Parry
Airbus tyres explode on Chek Lap Kok taxiway
Airbus plane aborts take-off from Chek Lap Kok after tyres explode
An investigation has been launched after an Airbus plane with 243 people on board was forced to abandon take-off from Hong Kong after four of its tyres exploded, wrecking one of the plane's engines.
The A340 suffered extensive damage in the incident, which happened as it travelled down a taxiway at Chek Lap Kok shortly before midnight on April 1. The Swiss International Air Lines flight was preparing to fly to Zurich.
Debris from the four tyres smashed the cowling of one of the plane's engines and peppered the underside of the plane, forcing the pilot to abandon the flight and call for help to unload its passengers.
The passengers were taken off the stricken plane using a set of stairs driven out onto the taxiway. Some were put on indirect flights to Zurich the following morning, while others waited to catch the same direct flight on April 2.
Airbus and Swiss airline experts have since flown to Hong Kong to join the Civil Aviation Department in an investigation to find out what caused the accident, which the airline said was "serious" and unprecedented in its fleet.
The plane was still in the maintenance area yesterday after having its damaged engine replaced and repairs carried out to the landing gear. It is expected to fly back to Zurich within days.
Investigators are understood to be trying to establish whether a mechanical problem with the landing gear or axles caused the tyres to explode or whether a foreign object on the taxiway might have caused the incident.
A civil aviation spokesman said a 16-metre-long scratch was found on the taxiway. It was believed to have been caused by the wheels scraping on the tarmac after the tyres exploded.
Swiss spokesman Jean-Claude Donzel said the incident was "very strange". "It is the first time we have had an incident like this on a taxiway," he said. "You do occasionally have something like this happen after a hard landing if you have turbulence on your descent, but not when a plane is just rolling down a taxiway.
"The damage was quite serious and we had to replace one engine on the aircraft. Some of our people came from Switzerland to Hong Kong to supervise the repairs. We expect the aircraft to be ready to fly again in the next few days.
"We are looking forward to learning the outcome of the investigation. I don't want to speculate, but obviously we would like to know if there was any object on the taxiway that might have caused this to happen."
The civil aviation spokesman was unable to say if any foreign objects had been found on the taxiway but said the scratch - 10mm deep and 16 metres long - was almost certainly caused by the movement of the aircraft while the tyres were deflated.
"Further investigations are required to determine what happened. The [Civil Aviation Department] will collect all the necessary evidence to support the investigation," he said.
A senior Hong Kong-based Airbus captain described the accident as "extremely unusual". "I can't think of a precedent," he said. "I can only imagine that something external to the plane, possibly something on the taxiway, caused this to happen.
"The plane would only have been travelling at about 30 knots or 40 miles per hour (about 64km/h) while on the taxiway. Tyres are pretty tough these days and if anything goes wrong, they usually deflate. They don't explode. In all my years of flying I have never had a tyre go on me. The explosion would have been pretty powerful. If you were near one of the tyres when it exploded, the flying debris might kill you. But the passengers wouldn't have noticed much."
The incident was stranger for the fact that the engine affected by the flying debris was the No4 engine, not the No3 engine directly above the burst tyres, the pilot pointed out. An Airport Authority spokesman said it had deployed staff to inspect the taxiway after the incident, arranged disembarkation for passengers and facilitated the towing of the aircraft for maintenance. Aircraft movements and airport operations were not affected. "After the completion of the immediate on-site inspection, we found that the scratch did not affect taxiway operations and aircraft safety," he said. "While there is no immediate safety issue, pavement resurfacing for the concerned taxiway will be carried out within two weeks."

[Flight Detent]

...and just an addition to post #20,

not only are the wheels pre-inflated to around 40 psi, (to both keep the tyre bead seated properly and to exclude air so no corrosion invasion, remember the tyres are inflated with nitrogen), but you may notice that any ground engineer worth his salt will ALWAYS deflate the tyre prior to loosening the wheel nut.

That wheel nut may be the only thing holding the split-rims together, it has happened.
Likewise, they only inflate after installation of the wheel nut!

Now that's calling on memories of long, long ago!

Cheers...FD...:ok:

[mcdude]

Im sure a KA A330 had a wheel disintegrate during the landing roll in SHA (not PVG) 6 or 7 years ago, closing the airport for an hour or so. From memory it was a normal approach and landing, however the wheel assembly was deemed to be at fault.:ooh:

[atakacs]

Various coverage (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1546714.php/Swiss-jet-damaged-after-tyres-explode-on-Hong-Kong-runway-Roundup) of this incident on April 1st (hope it's not some sort of joke :rolleyes:).

Apparently an A340 had 3 tires exploding during takeoff taxi, damaging one engine.

Sound rather odd - anyone with more info ?

[bigjames]

see thread in fragrant harbour...

[atakacs]

see thread in fragrant harbour...

oops wonder why my search for "swiss tires" didn't match this one :(

That being said it might deserve a promotion around here as it is a rather odd incident.

[N1 Vibes]

attacs,

your search had no success as you used the US (read - Microsoft global standard english - at this point) spelling "tires". This is an A340 operated in a city that the opium-dealing British once called "Occupied Territory"(open for general trading in drugs etc), locally the spelling is "tyre".

Apparently the Brits haven't used the spelling "tire" since the 18th century, nor since the pneumatic "tyre" was invented and named by Joseph Dunlop in the 19th century, only certain backwards looking (in a historical sense - before I start a xenophobic reaction here) nations still use the old version - "tire".

Hoping this clarifies.:ok:

Best Regards,

N1 Vibes

[Basil]

N1,
I guess Chinese characters would avoid all this 'tired' old Roman script confusion. Now in Arabic they don't write short vowels after primary school so 'tire' or 'tyre' - who cares - just bring another sheesha :}

I really shouldn't post after pub.

[N1 Vibes]

Basil,

a potentially good suggestion. Until you discover that the chinese spoken word for fuel can be the same as the word for oil. So if you or anyone you know flies through HKG, don't be surprised if one day you can't start your engine, cos it could be sucking on 20,000kg of Mobil Jet II!!!

Happy Flying!

N1 Vibes

[DCS99]

Shocking photos of the bogey and the engine penetration are in the print edition of 20min.ch

Can't find them online, but will doubtless be around soon.

Edited:

Should have looked at the Anoraks' Site:

LX 340 In Hong Kong "3 Tires Burst" — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4767816/)

Post 14

[atakacs]

your search had no success as you used the US (read - Microsoft global standard english - at this point) spelling "tires". This is an A340 operated in a city that the opium-dealing British once called "Occupied Territory"(open for general trading in drugs etc), locally the spelling is "tyre".Thanks for this most enlightening explanation.

The pictures are indeed scary although clearly the tyres did not "explode" as per early reports.

[Ex Cathedra]

Debris on the taxiway?
I thought Continental had retired all of its DC-10s?
:E

Althought I doubt a debris on the tarmac could cause the hub to fail.

[N1 Vibes]

atakcs,

your welcome. Hoping that when I next falter on elements of Swiss culture equally I can be put straight(!) :)

Back to the thread - those photos clearly demonstrate that when the inner rim failed the rest of the wheel was very much a loaded gun waiting to go off...

If I was the man doing the walkaround that day, or anyone who had been near that a/c when in HKG, I'd go and buy myself a lottery ticket!

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[stilton]

Since debris may have been involved we should all know the answers behind this incident in about ten years after the French justice system completes it's investigation :eek:

[spannersatcx]

I doubt very much that FOD/Debris caused this. From the photo's the tyre carcass is still intact i.e. not burst, and the hub has clearly failed.

[onprofile]

There has been a lot said about the possible cause of this incident, BUT has anyone, including the HKCAD considered the implications for the crew, passengers and the people of Hong Kong below if the wheel explosion had occured shortly after take off ? ie after gear retraction. Not to mention around 80 tonns of fuel the A340 would have had on board.
A good reason for not living under the flight path. If anyone should be buying a Mark Six ticket it would be Swiss Air, their passengers and crew.

[dubh12000]

Who are these "Swiss Air" guys? :}

[onprofile]

Try www.swiss.com (http://www.swiss.com) however if you live in Zurich I suspect you already know.

[dubh12000]

Swissair / Swiss air are long gone, "Swiss" is how the airline is refered to, just like the weblink.

(Its like the "quantas" issue in other threads....)

[N1 Vibes]

RE: FOD/Debris

The shoe-shine man in the terminal mentioned something about a seized wheel bearing....

[jettison valve]

It^s been a while since the event...

Has anyone seen an official report or heard anything about the failure cause?
:confused:

Cheers, J.V.