Oman Typhoon

[pubsman]

This on BBC Latest News:

"Oman is to buy a number of Eurofighter aircraft from the UK, Downing Street says"

[Herc-u-lease]

and they likely won't be the only nation to do so

[Lyneham Lad]

There is also some information on Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6311C620100402) albeit very sketchy.
Oman has indicated that it intends to buy an unspecified number of Eurofighter warplanes, Prime Minister Gordon Brown's spokesman said Friday.

The possible deal followed three years of talks between Brown and the leaders of Oman, the spokesman said without giving details of the size or timing of any sale.

Media reports in late 2008 said Oman was in talks with BAE Systems (BAES.L) to buy 24 Typhoons worth at least 1.4 billion pounds.

The British company makes the Eurofighter alongside Italian group Finmeccanica (SIFI.MI) and European aerospace group EADS (EAD.PA). The engines are supplied by a group led by Rolls-Royce (RR.L) and Germany's MTU Aero Engines (MTXGn.DE).

A BAE spokesman said the company had no immediate comment, but would release a statement later Friday.

If confirmed, the deal would give a boost to the Eurofighter project after years of uncertainty over whether European countries would agree to buy the full number of jets they signed up for.

More to be released later today...

[Lyneham Lad]

Seems the Conservative spokesman knows a lot about the aircraft (4th paragraph from the bottom)

And what, pray, is wrong with describing the Tiffy as 'swing role' (http://www.eurofighter.com/et_sr_mc_sw.asp) ?

[ian16th]

Will Bae be able to offer very short delivery dates, because of the delay or even cancelation of MoD orders for the RAF?

[Impiger]

This is pretty old hat really. OK the project may have nudged forward a tad but in essence there's nothing new in this that hasn't been reported before. No dates, no numbers, not even a hint of something new such as whether they'll train in UK or Oman. Not surprising that BAES didn't have a statement ready to go - they were probably taken aback by the Downing St spin machine releasing a 'good for Gordon' item based on this subject at this stage. OK, I'm a cynical old git and I'll pour another glass of claret.

[barry lloyd]

Old News - New Spin

This is pretty old hat really. OK the project may have nudged forward a tad but in essence there's nothing new in this that hasn't been reported before. No dates, no numbers, not even a hint of something new such as whether they'll train in UK or Oman. Not surprising that BAES didn't have a statement ready to go - they were probably taken aback by the Downing St spin machine releasing a 'good for Gordon' item based on this subject at this stage. OK, I'm a cynical old git and I'll pour another glass of claret.

I'm a cynical old git too, especially when I see stuff like this trotted out on a Good Friday:confused:

[orca]

Lyneham Lad,

Does that fit actually work? I've sort of lost track/ interest in the upgrades as a direct result of Torpy banging on about the system when not much seemed to be happening to the actual capability. My last understanding was that A-G wise the aircraft had a pod and an LGB, but no stand off weapon and a clear air-mass ML only capability...am I wrong?

In that fit, yes, swing role isn't a fib, but if my suspicions are correct it would be better termed an 'AD platform with austere A-G weaponry'.

Before anyone bites, i am sure that it's already a great A-A aircraft and given more time and money it will be ace at A-G...and will probably solve third world debt and cure cancer too.

Just lost interest again...

[A2QFI]

I am not sure what role the Oman government are buying the Typhoon to fill, bearing in mind they already have F-16s and are perhaps considering retiring their Jaguars. BAe managed to sell Lightnings to Saudi, for ground attack, and the Jaguar to Oman for Air Defence even though it did not have any sort of radar fitted! Top sales people!

[Squirrel 41]

A2QFI

To replace the Jag Force, I believe.

S41

[Double Zero]

Well deserved cynism aside for a moment, any idea which tranche model they're after ?

Personally I'd love to see the RAF flog off their tranche 1's, then go all tranche 2 & upgrade - last I heard, tranche 3 was unlikely to happen.

As for replacing Jaguar...!

[Saintsman]

I'm sure BAES never offered any 'inducements' to get this deal ;)

[Jackonicko]

Since it's Government to Government, BAE S would have had little to do with it, thus far, Saint.


Double Z,

You'd like to flog off the Tranche 1 jets - the only jets we have with any A-G capability - would you? :rolleyes:

[RumPunch]

Bit Off topic but would I be right in thinking the Oman Air Force was looking at C17s, when I was out about 18 months ago the US were displaying one there. Maybe the Oman military is trying to be 21st centuary as well as keeping ties with the Western world. Lets face it there military force until the F16s arrived was pretty poor for a Gulf nation.

God knows as they have about so few years left of Oil they investing noew perhaps

[robin]

It's the only way the Guvmint can meet its contractual obligations.

It has to buy them but can't afford them, so it gets its chums to buy them instead (probably brokered through Mr Bliar)

[Spugford]

The 'SEAD' fit/link on that page made me giggle aswell.... what world do they live in??

:ugh:

Eurofighter Typhoon - Suppression of Enemy Air Defences (http://www.eurofighter.com/et_sr_mc_so.asp)

[Navaleye]

You'd like to flog off the Tranche 1 jets - the only jets we have with any A-G capability - would you?

Not entirely accurate. We have JFH plus 7 Squadrons of Tornado GR4s more than capable of doing the job, so we are not imposing any capability holiday by offloading our oldest models with an austere capability.


If you want true A-G then F35 is the way to go and this frees up more cash to buy them.

[Jackonicko]

Don't be obtuse, Navaleye.

The Tranche 1 jets are, for the time being, the only A-G capable Typhoons, and the only jets in the inventory with a swing role capability.

By the time F-35s are anywhere near ready, the Harriers will be long gone, the GR4s on the verge of retirement, and the Tranche 1 jets close to their end of life.

[Navaleye]

Jacko I'm not being obtuse. Under current plans 800NAS will be the first squadron to re-equipped with the F35 with 801 following two years later. What ever they call an IFTU these days will form earlier, so the GR9 and the F35 will be operational together for some time.

We are facing significant public spending cuts and defence is no exception. At the moment all the forces are saying "you can't touch this bit because..." the reality is if we can sell 24 a/c we don't really need right now, then I predict that will happen. Not ideal are not desireable, but we are where we are.

The Oman sale reinforces a relationship with a key ally, and what's the betting they will be flown by RAF pilots for some time.

The alternative is to flog our reduced buy of Tranche 3. I can't see why that would be preferable.

[Jackonicko]

Are you aware of the REAL progress of the F-35 programme?

Do you seriously think the GR9s will last until the F-35B is actually ready?

Are you sanguine that it's a remotely good idea to take aircraft into service before the US have finished IOT&E (after -130J I'm not).

With only about 50 Typhoons delivered, do you seriously think we can spare 24 of them?

You're f***ing deranged, chum.

[Navaleye]

Sticking to the subject in hand. We gave up the Jags, we gave up the Shars (which you supported) all of which felt painful at the time but the reality is we haven't been invaded We are buying 160 of the things. In business the term it's called cascading. You flog the old stuff while someone still wants to buy it at a decent price, then buy something new. if that's deranged in your book then I can live with that because that's what happens in the real world. What else would you offer up when the axe man comes?

[Jackonicko]

You really should go and pollute some Naval forum, chum, because when it comes to air power, you're clueless.

Typhoon is not 'old kit', nor is it irrelevant. It's one of the last things to get rid of.

[Flying Serpent]

What else would you offer up when the axe man comes?

Interesting question.

What's the answer?

:hmm:

[Jackonicko]

If you mean within defence, then CVF and JSF for a start.

And the planned Trident replacement, taking a cheaper (admittedly less capable) deterrent in its place.

[newt]

Is the Typhoon any good at ultra low level? If the answer is no, then the Omani's don't need it!

Is it reliable in hot and high runway operations? If the answer is no, then the Omani's don't need it!

Can it operate off desert strips or highways? If the answer is no then the Omani's don't need it!

I could go on but the answer is the same!

:D

[orca]

Here's a question, and it's reference the whole swing role debate....

Would it be fair to say that a heater and a gun doesn't make you an AD player anymore? Can the same now be said of an LGB that has no GPS help in the A-mud role? What, then, is swing role?

My own opinion is that to be classed as swing role in today's environment (the warfighting one, not the 'I love/ hate aeroplane X unconditionally' one)you need a fox three (well...four or so..), an advanced pod and a GPS guided weapon. Very soon this will need to be augmented by either an LO platform or a SEAD/DEAD weapon as well. No point swinging between roles with gay abandon if all the SAMs in christendom and beyond can reach out and grab you.

I am minded, for the ability to swing into the COIN role that one needs the gun as well.

I realise that the Typhoon must be a swing role aeroplane (I disagree) because the RAF news says it is...the same font of knowledge that shows Seeb, Bastion and KAF as Typhoon shapes in roundel colours...(Off topic but that annoys the hell out of me, and I can't think it overwhelms our heroic SH and hard working AT fleets either)

Anyway, what say you?

[Willard Whyte]

You're f***ing deranged, chum.

So is the guv'm'nt

[RileyDove]

Jackonico - On the basis that some Harrier airframes are sub 3000 fhrs and there are is now a squadron less flogging hours off them why do you believe that they cannot continue flying for the next 8-10 years in the form of the reduced force they have ?

[Easy Street]

orca,

My own opinion is that to be classed as swing role in today's environment (the warfighting one, not the 'I love/ hate aeroplane X unconditionally' one)you need a fox three (well...four or so..)Four x AMRAAM

an advanced podLitening III

and a GPS guided weapon.Six x Enhanced Paveway 2. Picture follows, minus the AAMs...

http://www.skycontrol.net/UserFiles/Image/MilitaryAviation_img/200809/200809-eurofighter-typhoon-50000-hours.jpg

Typhoon must be a swing role aeroplane (I disagree)Errmm, you specified your "swing role" shopping list, and Typhoon has all the elements already... so why do you disagree?!

for the ability to swing into the COIN role that one needs the gun as well.Got that too.

Very soon this will need to be augmented by either an LO platform or a SEAD/DEAD weapon as wellWell, it's got neither of those (yet) but as the bold bit indicates, you don't think they matter at the moment! I'd say your argument was well and truly unpicked there.

Seeb, Bastion and KAF as Typhoon shapes in roundel colours...(Off topic but that annoys the hell out of me, and I can't think it overwhelms our heroic SH and hard working AT fleets either)Probably annoys the GR4 guys too - but we're both assuming anyone out there can be bothered to read the rag in the first place!

[A2QFI]

In all the time I was in Oman the only aircraft that operated off dirt strips and/or paved roads were the Hercs, Skyvans and Defenders. Operating a fast jet from these was not considered necessary, at that time, and I don't think it would be now.

[newt]

A2QFI, In my time in Oman we had contingency plans to operate Jags off the black top road. Several sections were, I believe, built in a straight line for just that reason. Not saying we ever used them like we did in Germany but it was always considered an option should the main Omani bases be knocked out.:ok:

[A2QFI]

Newt - I do agree that it would be possible to land on many stretches of the North/South road but what you would do when you got there might be problematical - fuel, weapns, turnround etc. A colleague, the late Neil McGibbon, once landed at Marmul and had a bowser out from Thurait to refuel him. If you think we know each other please PM me.