Equal Opportunities & Diversity

[kirstybird]

Proudly emblazoned across all career websites these days is the boast that the employer has a culture of equal opportunity and diversity. After yet another humiliating experience with a UK Airline I now have to ask the question, has the UK Airline Industry (and the Ground Operations segment in particular) really embraced this concept.

I joined the industry originally in 1974 and worked continuously from 1976 until 2006 in the area of Ground Operations and Crewing. I started with a small Jersey based carrier and then moved on to Dan-Air, Air UK, Jet2 and laterly several carriers on a contract basis. I was respected in my field and had a good reputation as a competent performer (colleagues words, not mine).

In 2006 I took the personal decision to "change gender" and since that time I have become "unemployable" in the airline world although fortunately not in other more enlightened industries. Aviation then as now remains my first love but it seems that I will be forever denied a place back in the industry that I believe that I have served so well.

Two airlines actually phoned me up at the time (it's a small World, word gets around quickly) and expressed their disquiet at what I had done and told me not to bother applying to them in the future. (Something which in anycase I had not been contemplating at that time)

Since then the application process for any position has been remarkably similar. I submit an application, it is greeted with interest, I am invited for interview and then Stone Age Britain comes to the fore.

In this latest case, when rather foolishly, I decided that I would put myself through it all again by applying for a Crewing Controller's position, this is how it went.

I submitted the job application last Thursday. Within an hour I had been phoned and asked to complete some competency questions by the next day. These were duly submitted and I was called for interview this Tuesday just gone (1 day ahead of the closure date). I duly attended the interview which commenced with an In-Tray exercise which was based on on-the-day priorities and included a crewing problem to solve. (Nothing that was Rocket Science to use the dreadful cliche) I completed this exercise extremely well. How do I know this? It was debriefed immediately afterwards and I was given the outcome. There then followed a 1 hour 40 minute competency discussion. I felt that I gave a good account of myself (but then I would wouldn't I). I felt uneasy, however. I was not born yesterday. The HR Girl bless her, was a young slip of a thing and was clearly not going to rock the boat. The Operations Manager was straight out of the dark ages and clearly could not cope with Kirsty. His body language said it all. Where do these people come from, and to think modern airlines employ them.

Kirsty I should add is not Claudia Schiffer but niether is she off the set of Little Britain. My boyfriend has absolutely no idea about my past and does not question my authenticity.

Anyway today I was told that the application was not being taken further because I had failed the in-tray exercise. Anything else I would have accepted but this was clearly nonsense. I had worked out on the day that this would be the outcome. He might be from the dark ages, this Ops Manager, but he was certainly no thespian.

The four most recent interviews prior to this had not been dressed up in the same way, the employers made little effort to disguise the reason for my lack of success.

My ramblings are at an end. Someone, somewhere out there, please tell me that my believes are mis-placed and that the UK Airline industry has entered the 21st Century in this very basic area. I remain to be convinced. All I want is the chance to be able to earn a living in an area in which I remain extremely experienced and competent. Jobs do come up (few and far between these days admittedly) It would be nice to think that if I was called to interview again I could rely on a level playing field.

Kirsty:(

[Crewing Gimp]

Easyjet are looking for Crewing Officers! Get your CV in they are the kings of equal opportunities. :)

[SteadyEDI]

Try SAS (Scandanavian Airlines). Don't know whether they are recruiting or not, or are based at any stations near you, but they are an airline with a good track record of equal opportunities.

[Waving_tug_boy]

did you say your boyfriend doesnt know you've been through gender reassignment?

Fair play to you for the post, but why do you need to tell anyone? surely whats in your pants or what used to be has nothing to do with a job application....

[Dropline]

I think that's the point Kirsty is trying to make!

[Grasscarp]

Perhaps it was relevant. Kirsty said she was debriefed.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

One of the considerations any Manager has to consider Kirsty is how you'd fit into the team. I suspect the HR person might have had a say on that, albeit after the interview. In very generalised terms and with the greatest of respect this was likely to be considered over competence in my humble view. Over the years Ops rooms (generally considered male orientated places of work) have been "infiltrated" by the female species much to the overall benefit of the team / airline (and the Office as "they" tend to tidy up unlike us blokes...). I have to say that or else they'll string me up.
In all Airlines the Ops room banter can get quiet close to the mark and occasionally some head banging has to take place to ensure peace and harmony rules.
In a previous life I employed someone from the other side (i'm not sure which side now :hmm:) and once it became public knowledge I had a hard time (not literally :=) maintaining departmental morale for everyone. Now days I let my Staff interview and vet prospective joiners....

So, in a roundabout way does that help ? :\

[plans123]

If there are 'trans gender' people serving in HM Forces in many roles (including aircrew) I cannot see why the civil aviation industry is putting up artificial barriers. Teamwork is paramount in the military,the banter is harsh, but they still serve

I have to ask - is this just your perception of the situation or is it actually happening?

[ei-flyer]

My boyfriend has absolutely no idea about my past and does not question my authenticity.

Hmmm......

[kirstybird]

Hi,

Firstly may I thank Crewing Gimp and Steady EDI for their helpful suggestions. Mr Angry of Purley also makes some good points. I fully appreciate what you are saying but rest assured I do know exactly how the banter in an Ops Room works.

In reply to Plans 123, no this is not my imagination, this is actually happening. My situation apart, I know of at least one case where a person was constructively dismissed for transitioning. Had KLM uk kept going, I would have been fine. KLM as the Parent company (Dutch) , were fairly enlightened on all of this. I had served them faithfully for 21 years and was well respected. I would have got a load of banter, that is to be expected. I am thick skinned, I can cope with that. Unfortunately during the year of my planned transition all ground staff were made redundant. At that stage I had not transitioned and I got myself another job without difficulty.

As someone so delicately put it in an earlier posting, what I've got in my pants should not come into it and indeed I never refer to my status when applying for a job. Unfortunately, as you all must know, the UK Airline Operations Community is a relatively small and close-knit group. It is impossible to apply for a job within this community without encountering someone who knows of your previous life, either directly or through a colleague. Contrast this to if I had pursued a career with a Building Society or such like. In most cases I could quite easily have shiped myself off to another part of the Country and been totally anonymous. Unfortunately, in the Airline Ops World there is nowhere to hide.

As to ei-flyer, I feel that you are judging people such as I by the unfavourable image that is served up by the media (and if you are not then I appologise). Contrary to popular belief, people such as I don't merely slip on a frock and then declare ourselves female. To get to where I am I have undergone an intensive course of femaising hormone treatment which will continue until the day I die. I have to date undergone 250 hours of painful facial electrolysis in order to permanently remove facial hair. I have undergone three major surgical operations, one to my face and the other two to my body. I have had to undertake extensive voice coaching and deportment coaching. My build was such that I didn't look bad in anycase, now I look great and I sound believeable and hence my boyfriend does not know!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I have financed all of this myself, to date in excess of £30,000.

But to return to the orginal point. The hardest part of all of this has not been all the procedures listed above, has not been the fact that in the early days I was spat at and sworn at and on two occasions beaten up. This goes with the territory, I made my choice and this is what I had to live with.

No the hardest part has been the fact that I have been denied and continue to be denied the opportunity to earn a living in a field in which I am eminently qualified. And why, all because I took the brave decision to be truthful to myself. On top of all the emotional strain of this difficult journey has been the added struggle of fighting to make ends meet and keep the ballifs away from the door.

I estimate that it will be another whole generation before people such as I can just get on with our lives and apply for jobs without predjudice. In some sectors in this country this has started to happen. it would be nice to think that the Airline Industry, which is always percieved as being forward thinking, could also emerge from the Dark Ages and start to embrace this culture. However, I am not holding my breath.

Kirsty:*

[DCS99]

Kirsty - wish you all the best, don't get me wrong, but surely it was a bad idea to start this thread on April Fool's Day?

[Grasscarp]

If this is for real, and the April Fool Day factor had not occurred to me, the bit about your boyfriend knowing nothing doesnt really make sense. If this is causing you problems with employment, and you have undergone all this work on your body, deportment, voice etc etc why do you never talk about it. Are you ashamed about your past? Are you frightened he would leave you if he knew the truth? To share everything on pprune with anybody who cares to log on, but hide it from your partner seems bizarre at the very least and could be seen as deception by him when he does find out - and he will.

[Ballymoss]

I joined the industry originally in 1974 and worked continuously from 1976 until 2006 in the area of Ground Operations and Crewing

That must be twice as long as most would give this 'non-career'. Should
have got it out of your system by now, despite your 're-working'. If your
not taking the pi$$, move on, there's more to life than ops control..........

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

[jackdaniels]

Kirsty,
I dont get the point here... are you trying to be sympathetic while trying to shed some tears here??? trying to move someones heart while sharing all your personal stuff??? to be honest i dont think anybody here cares how much you paid for your brest surgery or hormons therapy... and personally I wouldnt favour a sexually disordered individuals mainly because they are a constant "distraction" and believe me I do have a helluva lot of reasons more for why I wouldnt hire a transexual in my division... I'm talking for myself of course! (but it seems that I'm not the only one sharing this ideal) so please make me a favour cut the effen crap!!!!

[Chopper69]

Kirsty

I know that you do have a point about a male focused Ops environment and all the banter, but for an Ops Manager and as previously stated, it would be a nightmare to manage. The reason that all in the industry know about your situation is that you declared it previously on an industry wide email! Maybe a bit more discretion, especially when after many years in the industry, you would be aware of 'how it works'. I think again, as previously stated, it might be good to move on, reflect on a long career and all the 'stories', of which there were many in the early days, it really isn't that much fun anymore!

Chopper

[waco]

......wish I could get to the interview stage.............

[Jack_P]

I can only assume you have applied for the airlines, and not the ground handlers at the airport?
My suggestion being take a dive into check in, getting a foot back into the industry, or better still dispatch.

Airlines seem to be reducing costs and thus using ground handlers more and more, decreasing the need for the amount of staff, so I would personally apply for either Swissport, Menzies or Servisair (Aviance does not exist outside of LHR now) at Manchester (if thats your closest airport) and maybe see what companies handle the larger contracts like Emirates, as the "A380" will be flying there from the 30th of September, meaning extra jobs within that company may become available for you then to apply.....

I wish you all the best of luck, and dont make these few disappointments push you away from a job you love

[kirstybird]

"The reason that all in the industry know about your situation is that you declared it previously on an industry wide email! "

I can't deny this point. Early in 2006 I did e-mail "my colleagues", if nothing else to put an end to the speculation which was doing the rounds. Stupidly, I took the view then, that honesty would be the best approach. It was a believe that was sadly misplaced.

If you try being open you are condemmed, if you try hiding things you are condemmed and therein lies the problem.

It might be a dead-end carrer, as someone put it, but I was good at it and I earnt enough to keep me happy. I have moved in other directions career-wise but surely anyone who has worked in the industry can understand the allure. I loved the industry and loved being a part of it.

There has been some well thought out comments on here but also plenty that merely confirm my original beliefs. The message coming through loud and clear is that the bigots rule the day and will no doubt continue to do so for the foreseeable future. I am flogging a dead horse here.

Kirsty

[Agaricus bisporus]

"if you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined..."

[Waving_tug_boy]

Kirsty is that not agaisnt the law to withold this info from your boyfriend?

its like rape .... :oh:

[kirstybird]

Waving tug boy, do some research. You really do not seem to understand what any of this is about. How can this be rape? By whom and when.

In the eyes of the law and physically I am female. To put this one to rest, I have now told my boyfriend. He was shocked but has accepted it, after all everything looks right and I am still the same person that he was first attracted to.

As to the Gentleman in the USA who told me so delicately to cut the effin crap. To me none of this is crap, it is a very real situation. I provided a taste of what I had been through and what was involved, not to gain symphathy, but merely to illustrate that this is not something undertaken lightly. You don't become a woman merely by putting on a frock. I made my choice, I am quite happy to live with that side of things.

But coming back to the original point, something that seems lost on all the people making stupid observations about my original posting being on 1st April, this is about discrimination and bigotry, pure and simple. The same mentality that has led to so many hate crimes throughout history. And incidentally, I was always led to believe that April Fool's jokes could only be actioned prior to 1200 (1100 UTC) on the day in question. My post was somewhat later in the day.

I knew that the path I had chosen would be hard but I had absolutely no idea just how small minded and petty people can be until I was faced with trying to regain employment in my chosen profession. And that is my only complaint. People can make light of it by making foolish observations but think carefully, when you are least expecting it, you to could come up against similar discrimination. Discrimination, after all, takes many forms.

Kirsty:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Waving_tug_boy]

Kirsty i wish you all the best and i hope you find employment within the the avaition industry you love.

apologies for being a tool earlier must remember to engage brain :ok:

[Ballymoss]

What a complete and utter tosser you are (where's that w@nker smilie when I want it) Watch out, that tug might just take you up the ar$e one day!

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

[Waving_tug_boy]

:ok: cheers buddy

[Cluster Bomb]

You better hope this new groundhandling company doesn't discriminate against half-wits or you have no chance of getting employed. Think before you type.

[Waving_tug_boy]

cheers buddy :ok: oh and dont park that belt loader there the fueler cant get in!!! ;):D

[Cluster Bomb]

As long as you don't ram the steps into the kite with such force that the Captain has to call the engineers to check the plane and don't try to chock the aircraft before it stops. The list goes on, unfortunately Alba didn't....

[Waving_tug_boy]

To be fair though clusterbomb lets be honest here, I was let loose with no training what so ever and Everyone who was on shift that night said that the kite had stopped but he took it apon himself to move forward. Even the safedock said Stop on it when i went in to chock it, and the stairs thing well you know as well as i do that wasnt me we didnt have any equipment that could leave a round mark. that was done at another station but scape goat tug boy wasnt on shift to defend himself but nice try. :ok:

[C. Lunge]

Tug boy, Chocking a kite while the anti collision light's still on??? :ugh:Tut tut

[Cluster Bomb]

It's not really his fault, he was new, even though he tried to tell everyone else what to do. Just as well it wasn't a popularity contest, from zero to minus figures in a matter of months.

[Waving_tug_boy]

Yh i know. Sorry CB man I was a ****. Learned my lesson tho :ok: Its funny how being keen and wanting to learn the job loses you respect...

[desertopsguy]

Boy did this thread take a turn or what???

IMHO, I would have kept quiet about the gender switch, if you wanted the job that badly then it wasnt prudent to say it unless you were legally obliged to. Ops rooms are not known for their etiquette and mild banter. The piss-takes are full on and your life choice might not sit very well with alot of the folks you would potentially work with, sad but true.

Maybe reapply somewhere else, do a blinder of an interview and keep mum about the personal stuff.

Just my 2c worth.

D.O.G

[Agaricus bisporus]

How can this be rape? By whom and when.


Oh Lord, you really are so up yourself that you can't see that?

By YOU!!!!

Your boyfriend thought that he was going out with a WOMAN. He wasn't, you'd bamboozled him into going out with another man.

If you'd done that to many men you'd be lucky to survive the natural result.

Please remember that although you regard this "gender reassignment" as somehow "normal" or God forbid, "natural" it is by any biological, physical or psychological asessment totally and utterly unnatural.

This is in no way discrminatory or bigoted, this is a straightforward statement of natural and self-evident fact. To most people it is your attitude that your bizarre bahaviour must be accepted as "normal" that is bigoted and totally incomprehensible, and the reason why your job applications are not working. Is it really fair to expect an employer to hire you when he knows your presence will upset and offend the greater part of their customers? Wake up!

Sorry, but the dictatorship of the loony minorities over the rest of us has to be stopped. That is not democracy, any more than freakish medical sexual engineerig is moral or acceptable to the decent majority of the population who are sick to death of having this kind of awfulness stuffed down their throats..




I'll get my coat...

[Waving_tug_boy]

Oh Lord, you really are so up yourself that you can't see that?

By YOU!!!!

Your boyfriend thought that he was going out with a WOMAN. He wasn't, you'd bamboozled him into going out with another man.

If you'd done that to many men you'd be lucky to survive the natural result.

Please remember that although you regard this "gender reassignment" as somehow "normal" or God forbid, "natural" it is by any biological, physical or psychological asessment totally and utterly unnatural.

This is in no way discrminatory or bigoted, this is a straightforward statement of natural and self-evident fact. To most people it is your attitude that your bizarre bahaviour must be accepted as "normal" that is bigoted and totally incomprehensible, and the reason why your job applications are not working. Is it really fair to expect an employer to hire you when he knows your presence will upset and offend the greater part of their customers? Wake up!

Sorry, but the dictatorship of the loony minorities over the rest of us has to be stopped. That is not democracy, any more than freakish medical sexual engineerig is moral or acceptable to the decent majority of the population who are sick to death of having this kind of awfulness stuffed down their throats..




I'll get my coat...

nicely put. :D

[Vld1977]

Is it really fair to expect an employer to hire you when he knows your presence will upset and offend the greater part of their customers?

It should be fair. People should be chosen basing on their competence. By that logic, if my collegues or customers are upset by a female doing a traditional male role, then we should not employ women. Is that the conclusion? A few years back, a woman in control of an aircraft was unthinkable.

People´s irrational feelings towards anyone different shouldn't be above the law.

[Vld1977]

Sorry, but the dictatorship of the loony minorities over the rest of us has to be stopped

They are only trying to be accepted by you, and to be treated as any other person (who has not done any harm to anyone), not to impose any behaviour or to try to convince you to change your gender. Unlike some people (these being very protected by the law) demanding that their rosters accomodate church visits and that you dress in a way they don't find offensive.

[His dudeness]

Oh Lord, you really are so up yourself that you can't see that?

By YOU!!!!

Your boyfriend thought that he was going out with a WOMAN. He wasn't, you'd bamboozled him into going out with another man.

If you'd done that to many men you'd be lucky to survive the natural result.

Another man without a penis (I presume) and with breasts. Thats what I call a woman. If she worked from 1976-2006, it means she should be past 'reproduction date' even if a genuine (?) female.

So what did the bloke miss/loose there? Rape? get a life!


Please remember that although you regard this "gender reassignment" as somehow "normal" or God forbid, "natural" it is by any biological, physical or psychological asessment totally and utterly unnatural.

This is in no way discrminatory or bigoted, this is a straightforward statement of natural and self-evident fact. To most people it is your attitude that your bizarre bahaviour must be accepted as "normal" that is bigoted and totally incomprehensible, and the reason why your job applications are not working. Is it really fair to expect an employer to hire you when he knows your presence will upset and offend the greater part of their customers? Wake up!

Sorry, but the dictatorship of the loony minorities over the rest of us has to be stopped. That is not democracy, any more than freakish medical sexual engineerig is moral or acceptable to the decent majority of the population who are sick to death of having this kind of awfulness stuffed down their throats..

Will it upset the customers? Why should it? Or does she ware a sign: I had a dick but changed that!
In modern Britain? A person trying to live in body she wants to? Without costing Joe Public a penny? I´d guess your post must be a contender in the 'most bigoted and discraminary' as well as the 'most bizarre' category.
I personally would employ on the base of "whats her qualification" and definetaly not "has she had a willy"....

Dictatorship? Wanting to work is dictatorship? Jeez, you are one weird guy.
Bizarre behaviour? What, applying for a job is bizarre?