Paramount Airways

[Wannabe Flyer]

No relief to Paramount Airways from apex court (http://sify.com/news/no-relief-to-paramount-airways-from-apex-court-news-national-kd4vkdfgfcf.html)

'De-register two Paramount planes' - India Business - Biz - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/biz/india-business/De-register-two-Paramount-planes/articleshow/5744883.cms)

Does this mean they will shortly have no more planes to fly?

According to a news paper they are down to one aircraft in the air as the remaining one is grounded due to technical issues.

[jimmygill]

No worries, they have ordered A320s with all business configuration.
Doing business in aviation is sure not as smooth as silk.

[metro301]

I had heard that Airbus said no to the 320's as Paramount was not paying for there E170's.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Paramount to pay $5.25 mn to UK firm : Rediff.com Business (http://business.rediff.com/report/2010/apr/01/paramount-to-pay-uk-firm.htm)

From all the brooha they made in the past about being one of the only profitable airlines in India, it seems they have a bit of a "cash flow" issue too much like the others.

Not sure who then are sustaining infrastructure with 1 aircraft.

[profsx]

i seem to be getting some form of sadistic pleasure out of this:E, cant believe they wanted 25 lacs for a piece o **** E170!!
serves them right i tell u!but i feel for the guys who paid up

[kilwhang]

The problem is not the Embraer..........BA, LH, JAL, AF/KLM and many other 'premier league' airlines are operating the E-Jet profitably.

No, the problem is the country that lies a lowly No.84 in the International Corruption Perception Index.

That country is India.

[jimmygill]

i seem to be getting some form of sadistic pleasure out of this, cant believe they wanted 25 lacs for a piece o **** E170!!
serves them right i tell u!but i feel for the guys who paid up

Have some respect for the machine and men who make and fly them. What is ****ty is not the E170, but the 27 year old CEO they started with.

[profsx]

sry, i din mean the E170 is a piece of **** (a fit of anger), just the fact they were charging 25 lacs for it, im sure the rating dosent cost as much and yes i was cursing the management ,really feel for the pilots, especially the freshers who paid up

[niksmathew24]

Well at the end of the day some of us are having that sadistic pleasure and enjoying it :E

At the same time its sad to know that a company which was running in profits going down, that too first of its kind from S.India.

[jimmygill]

At the same time its sad to know that a company which was running in profits going down, that too first of its kind from S.India.

If they were running profits, why won't they pay for the aircrafts which they were using.

[shanx]

If they were running in profits ..

1. Why did they not pay salaries to their pilots and cabin crew and some other staff ?

2. Why did they charge 25 Lakhs for E-170 rating and 15 more lakhs black money under the table for trainee FO job ?

3. Why did they charge 1 lakh cash under the table for job as cabin crew ?

4. Why did the F@CK face MD of this airline have to resort to pathetic PR spin and "purchase" a few awards to be in the limelight ?

[niksmathew24]

I dont know the answers to your questions guys. But as far as I know Paramount posted a profit of 7.26 crores and that too profit for three years in a row.
Only Paramount, IndiGo in Profit (http://www.prlog.org/10572315-only-paramount-indigo-in-profit.html)
And that concludes my point to prove it was in profit.:)

Not sure on this, but at then end of the day money is money and the company will take it from whom so ever they can. Be it flight crew,cabin crew or ground crew,its just business.

And could you please elaborate on why you think the MD is that kinda person?

Unfortunately I don't work for paramount and so I don't know why they didn't pay off their crew or for the planes. And I honestly feel sorry for the guys who didn't get their cheque.:(

[profsx]

ohh come on niks

theyr not worth defending, besides if im right there are 100s of ways of hiding thier losses because the airline isnt their main business, i think its textiles....

[Wannabe Flyer]

They make profit cause they dont pay........

Simple it is all gross profit

And yes since they are a private firm no way to validate their numbers. Did some one say SATYAM

[King Julian]

Being a private firm doesn't mean that they've got their numbers manipulated (Not everyone is a Raju:\)
You cannot hide these kind of things for long. The bubble will break at some point. Likewise in the case of paramount the quest to prove that they'd been manipulating profit numbers is definitely not going to stand a chance.
And which sane company would want to show the Govt during recession times, yes am running in profits and don't require a bail out even if you want to give us one.


KJ

[itsbrokenagain]

has paramount stopped flying, I havent see a plane for a while ? and at CCU I see all the ground equipment parked in the corner with all the dirt covered MDLR stuff.

[jimmygill]

If you see a private firm which is showing profits, fully knowing that profits will be taxed, it means one of these

1. The firm is actually getting profit, and the managment is being honest about it.

2. The firm is not making profits, but is interested in keeping a good image in media keeping in mind some Initial Public Offer.

In aviation business where profit margins are low even a half wit chartered accountant can churn the numbers to show losses and hence avoid Income tax. In fact thats what paramount has done, they showed profit of less than USD 2.00 per passenger (in an all business class airline).

What Raju did was a foul play at large with very imaginative numbers, Paramount on the other hand is currently not in a position to do something of that scale. Per passenger profit at Paramount is comparable to per passenger profit at Indigo, an LCC with many of the depreciating assets owned by the airline itself. Which imply that on per passenger basis Indigo made much more profit than the business class paramount.


Any ways the figure of profits is what is provided by the Ministry of Civil Aviation and not by Income Tax Department, these two numbers could be different.

[Dagar]

keeeeeelwhang,since you seem to know a lil bit about India,here is one thing you also might want to add to your shallow knowledge bank-India is also an economic powerhouse and one of the largest economies in the world.

[BritishGuy]

And please define 'largest' economy in the world for me please? Just because you have a massive population, by comparison you DO NOT have one of the LARGEST economies in the world.

India is on the rise and doing VERY well - but please, lets not kid ourselves, it is still a developing nation and is a front runner in that aspect. India has the potential to be a force in the future no doubt - but please, leave the 'largest economy stuff out of this. Because it just isn't so.

[kilwhang]

You mis-understand me............... I like to think I have some knowledge of India. I have been travelling there, both professionally and for pleasure, since the late 70's. I have a love/hate relationship with the place - love the people/hate the beaurocracy and corruption. I am fortunate to have many Indian friends, all of whom cite corruption (followed by poverty) as the main problems. And I didn't publish the Corruption Index.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Perhaps, located in LA, your vision is a bit distorted.

[Dagar]

British guy I wrote one of the largest not the largest economy in the world,which is a fact.And just to refresh your memory there was a time whent it also sustained British empire.:)

[jimmygill]

What Dagar said was:
one of the largest economies in the world

One of the largest economy is not same as the largest economy. In PPP terms India is 4th after, USA, China and Japan.

So if the set of largest economies is limited to 4, then India is surely one of the largest economies.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Saw a Paramount 170 all dusty and covered up sitting in a corner in GOI. In fact there was an armed guard posted right under the wing of the aircraft. Not sure if he as ducking the sun or is there on court orders. There was a notice taped to the cargo hold door with some scribbles on it but did not get close enough to see what it was. Staff were still manning empty counters probably in the hope of the court order being lifted.

My guess is that it will probably go the MDLR way. Flew them once and did not see any feasibility in the model. RIP, and fee sorry for the 400 people plus who might lose their jobs. :uhoh:

As far as arguments on economy size etc, it probably has nothing to do with any of this. I buy the manipulation argument for an IPO, sounds prudent enough.

An observation

India's GDP is the 4th largest as pointed by Jimmy (i might I add all made in the last 15 years which has resulted in mind boggling wealth in the hands of some kids who do stupid things).

India Per capita is 123 on the list

naturally a population problem, so both DAGAR and British Guy seem to be arguing about the same thing. :{

We still have a very long way to go, but thankfully it is moving in the correct direction.

[jimmygill]

And I didn't publish the Corruption (Perception) Index [CPI].

I am sure you didn't publish the Index, and at least I will not dispute the index. In recent few years we have seen an improvement in the CPI. Partially owing to factors like introduction of Right to Information Act and an overall economic growth.

Since the index is related to perception of corruption rather than the corruption itself. In a growing economy people ignore corruption, only when it is stagnant than corruption matters more and is perceived more.

But the already introduced Right to Free and Compulsory Education Act is liable to better Indians ranking regarding corruption in long term.

[kilwhang]

If you have read my previous posts, you will know that I have a great affection for India and its people and I wish them great success in the future....................

But, let's get back to the subject of this thread - Paramount. I am privy to a lot of info about this airline and there are some indisputable facts:

The E-jet is a great little aircraft and is making money for a lot of airlines around the world..........including many loco's.
Paramount is in heavy debt. They owe money to fuel suppliers, caterers, airfields, and leasing companies.
Their maintenance compliance is 'suspect'.
Ditto their Flt Operations ( I personally know a very experienced F/O who resigned because of unhappiness with the flying standards)
They owe money for their Sim Recurrent Training. Their original facility has blocked them and the facility they use now requires them to pay cash first.
The DGCA (not the most 'hands on' Authority in the world) have decided to audit them fully.

So, where did it go wrong? Where has the money gone?

Perhaps you can tell me.........but I still think a lot of it has to do with India's place in the Corruption Index.

[Wannabe Flyer]

So, where did it go wrong? Where has the money gone?

Perhaps you can tell me.........but I still think a lot of it has to do with India's place in the Corruption Index. The above statement would be largely true if the guy had raised money from the capital markets or from some VC. From what I understand he pumped in most of his own money so siphoning it off would be a :confused: process.

I think his business plan was flawed. Very simple and straightforward you cannot fly in India in only one region and give the major trunk routes a miss and expect to make money. He basically ran out of cash........there was a dialogue."ego issuing cheques that his business plan could not cash!" Instead of stepping up to the stone and hiring people who could fix the problem or being more humble the bugger till recently was also thinking about acquiring spicejet. :yuk:

Regional low cost carriers in India such as MDLR, JAGSON, Paramount have and will never be successful until they link up like in the US or go national. To top it all the south is the most thrifty market and to get emotional and launch from ones home town is not thinking straight.

I agree however the the E has the potential to make a lot of money in India if deployed intelligently.

[kilwhang]

I thank you for that illuminating viewpoint, your understanding of the financial aspects of Paramount is far superior to mine.

According to the latest info, the DGCA is very close to removing their permit to operate.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Paramount grounded on low fleet & loan defaults: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood. (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/93661/Business/Paramount+grounded+on+low+fleet+&+loan+defaults.html)


I guess you were right. :bored:

[Roj approved]

Well, this is very sad but not unexpected.

I worked for the company, and it was generally fun, most of the F/O's were great to fly with and the Flights Ops department were trying to do the right thing. One of the major problems was the HR manager, Mr U**al. He couldn't lie straight in bed!! Taking advantage of the staff, slashing wages and fining ground staff for late departures. He was responsible for breeding a culture of ass covering and had the staff running scared.

Also the Long Haired Wonder Kid that strutted around the office like he knew everything was nothing better than a "YES" man. I believe these two were booted out of DECCAN when it was merged, for good reason.

The E170/175 is a good aircraft, but on the short sectors around south India that they were doing, it would have been twice to three times the cost of the ATR's and only saved about 4 to 6 minutes maximum.

For the run to Goa, Pune, Kolkota and Delhi it performed well and with a good load it would have made money.

I extend my condolences to all the staff and crew, everyone tried really hard and some of the girls and guys made the best South Indian coffee i have ever had. I miss that the most.

Good luck finding a new job, I hope you all land on you feet soon.

cheers
ROJ:ok:

[Wannabe Flyer]

Roj

Thank you for that.

I guess a few bad apples can spoil the lot. Sad day for a great aircraft. Sorry the founder could not see what you have so eloquently put!

[Capt Apache]

“History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.”


Karl Marx


Rediff On The Net Business News: Why private airlines in India are in such bad shape (http://www.rediff.com/business/jan/28crash2.htm)

What an uncanny resemblance.

"In June last year, the DGCA sent him a notice of deregistration of two of his Boeings. Reason: he owed the American firm, PLM Equipment and Transport, close to $ 1.4 million in lease rentals. He made his ad agency R K Swamy run around in circles for a mere Rs 30 million; he defaulted on payment of Rs 5.6 million to a television software company; till September last year he owed over Rs 7 million in inland air travel tax and last December he refused to pay Rs 60 million to the Taj group of hotels which caters to his airline till it threatened to go to court against him."

[courseitsfixed]

So has the worlds best airline MD managed to persuade Delhi that he can keep flying without paying any bills?????????:yuk:

[HAWK21M]

Too bad lately its only about Unrealistic expansion plans to the media.
But practically no Aircraft are flying.

[thirty5000]

Hey guys I have not been on this but I just got to know that they might be having a lease arrangment for 320. I have done some digging with some guys working at Paramount and what I hear is its not U***L but the main man who does all through this guy I don't know how far it is true and why one would want to join a comp I have heard some horror stories of U***L with Deccan as well butr the other guy seem to have done a good job but as all he too has his hands tied.

As an airline I think its a great product I have flown it once when I flew to Coimbatore on a family visit and my friend flew the bird anyway what most say not to join but at this day an age sometimes we also need the jobs.

I would suggest watch out for a few weeks and then decide as all airline management guys do their things but we make them fly.

[IndAir967]

I dont know who is mad enuf to lease planes to paramount airways having
known their prevailing credibility :rolleyes:

IAC967:ok:

[thirty5000]

Even I thought the same thing but I feel for the guys who are there apparently they have got frustrated and also alot of young kids doing training with them so whatever that comes there way would indeed be a good thing. Anyone from PA can confirm these for us. Have they started letting go of staff yet and what is the plan going forward?

[IndAir967]

each kid payed 25 laks to join paramount and get type rated by them :mad::mad: also heard a couple of them paid upto 40 laks..

No idea wat their state is at the moment..

Feel so sorry for them..

IAC967:ok:

[HAWK21M]

All About Good Management.........That leads to a sucessfull Airline.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Indigo, Jet, Paramount, look to add capacity-Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/Indigo-Jet-Paramount-look-to-add-capacity/articleshow/5884733.cms)


Apparantly as per the article he has applied for permission to to import 17 jets, which include 10 Airbus 321, one Embraer ERJ and six Q400.

As per another publication Airbus India head has denied any orders from him and clearly stated that all he has is an inquiry from Paramount at last years air show which does not add upto an order. Embrarer has also denied any orders.

Response given to this by the MD was apparently on the line that he does not need to buy from the manufacturer as there are sufficient aircraft lying parked due to the downturn. Considering how small the leasing community is the guys probably going to need an all cash down payment to get these aircraft. Any educated guesses how much he would require?

[thirty5000]

my guess is that leasing community is a bit scared with all the things that are going around in getting the E's back hence your right about one thing it will have to be an all cash downpayment but I feel for the kids if Embr concentrate more on the continent and india may be these kids will have a chance for redemption if not i guess more court dramas will follow. I heard they resumed operations since Saturday any idea of this?

[Wannabe Flyer]

Not sure how they resumed ops if the DGCA has de registered them. website does not mention anything but try making a booking and it says seats not available.

[thirty5000]

and the show just goes on..

[Wannabe Flyer]

The Hindu Business Line : Paramount, IndiGo get Govt nod to import 168 aircraft (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2010/05/04/stories/2010050451340100.htm)

:p

Wonder who is on the take now!!!!!

[magician191]

Please read this

Expat pilots seek salary dues from Paramount Airways - Corporate News - livemint.com (http://www.livemint.com/2010/05/05231935/Expat-pilots-seek-salary-dues.html)



Dont forget to read the comments below.:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\

[viking320]

Hi all
To the good guys out there
Please tell whats really going on at Paramount
I got an interview coming up for A321 for Capt.
Hearing many many rumours not to go and a lot of Bad press????
Viking

[silent_scream]

@ viking320,

Stay Away.

Try your luck at Indigo or Go Air if you must.

[Sky Dancer]

Err Viking , which A 321 are you doing the interview with Paramount for..the model airplane on Thyagarajan's desk ?There are much better places to work buddy...:ok:

[itsbrokenagain]

there are also ads on climbto350 site for emb170/190 captains!!!

[takeoffpowerset]

The latest Aircraft Acquisition committee report says that Paramount has got an NOC from MCA for getting 10 A321 , 5 A320 and 6 Dash-8-Q400 ....

[av8r76]

I believe the folks at paramount have just created a new game called 'registration musical chairs'.

[Indian Pilot]

Expat Pilots, stay away from Paramount. All but two expat Pilots have left the Airlines. Paramount is a FRAUD company they are CHEATS. Don't believe their lies.

[viking320]

Any updates on the paramount airways.Are they flying the aircrafts.
Do they have A320 planes.My interview is next month in Miami Florida.
Its very hard to know about the facts in india from north america.
so any of you people knows anything please let me know.
Viking

[niksmathew24]

Mate for your own good, stay away from them..!! OR else :{:{:{:ugh::ugh::ugh:

They dont have a single a/c now..and haven't even paid of previous dues to employees and organizations yet.
The company's reputation speaks for itself. Just go to wiki or google and type in paramount airways india..It'll give you more info than what you need to know.

[shanx]

@Viking320

Indian and expat pilots in Paramount have not been paid salaries since February and will not be paid anything till August.

Some of the pilots including 4 trainee pilots who coughed up 25 lakh rupees upfront for their Embraer-170 Type Rating are planning to sue them.

They claim they are going to get 10 airbuses and are planning to start international operations later this year ! :mad:

Just out of curiosity, are you dealing with the airline directly or through an agency ?
Have they mentioned anything else regarding the contract ?
This airline is known to breach contracts at whim. So be advised.

You are better off applying to Go-Air or Indigo for A320 positions.

[aditya104]

Paramount's last completed flight cycle was in April 2010. Since then no flight.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Paramount Airways has many deficiencies and that the airline has developed an attitude to neglect safety requirements. But at stake in this neglect is the lives of hundreds of people.

Read more at: Mangalore crash: Paramount Airways may lose license (http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/mangalore-crash-paramount-airways-may-lose-license-31341.php?cp)

[captnitin]

Paramount licence suspended for not meeting minimum fleet requirement

The Hindu Business Line : Paramount licence suspended for not meeting minimum fleet requirement (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2010/07/04/stories/2010070452070100.htm)

[Wannabe Flyer]

Madras HC provides relief to Paramount Airways-Airlines / Aviation-Transportation-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/Madras-HC-provides-relief-to-Paramount-Airways/articleshow/6132747.cms)

Seems he has managed to convince them that he has convinced some naive people to give him some more aircraft..........

[Sky Dancer]

For all of you who are dreaming of a job in Paramount Airways , the previous posts speak for itself.Mr.Thiagarajan is still learning how to spell the word "Aircraft"....like I said before , open your eyes there are better places to work.:ok:

[IndAir967]

Dont even think about joining Paramount..
There are millions of other companies to join for the BUS pilots..
In india Indigo would be a good option as a Line Captain..
If you are a TRI/TRE then Kingfisher or Go Air may also be a good bet :)

[pieinthesky1969]

@viking - I have to agree with everyone's comments - GO NOWHERE NEAR PARAMOUNT!!! They are a bunch of crooks and I know from first hand experience - they will promise the earth and end up not paying you a bean.

I would also stay away from Go Air..if you are going to India go to Indigo, Jet or KFA and leave the rest well alone.

[magician191]

I am a first officer with Paramount Airways, The MD of the company Tyagarajan has decided not to pay salary to the pilots :mad:. Most of the pilots has not received salary since March 2010. Some pilots have asked DGCA intervention and have received NOC from DGCA against 6 months notice rule.
Guys Paramount Airways has not paid Income Tax of its employees for last 2 financial years. no salary for pilots for last 5 months and are forced to fly in unsafe environment.
DO NOT JOIN PARAMOUNT AIRWAYS :=:=:=:=:=:=:=

[courseitsfixed]

Guys nd Girls,stay away from this circus,seriously no matter how desperate you are for a job,do not believe a word this airline says................Its a disaster waiting to happen.I know I have been there.Go anywhere else but not this circus.Cheers:ugh:

[maverick320]

:* I have a very close friend working with the " World of Difference" airline: PARAMOUNT......And from what I hear, the state is extremely bad:
Salaries not paid since Mar, No taxes paid to the Govt since last 2 years, also Paramount has done Provident fund fraud: not paid since last year!!!
Engg staff is soooo poorly paid, its like they are working for free, the maintenance of the lone single aircraft is so bad that actually its not airworthy at all n the Engg guy who is suppose to sign it off, wanted to put it down but he was getting pressurized not to do it, so he resigned!!!!
There are a lot of other payments which are also still pending and this circle has been there for the last one year, so when he was citing profit, he was actually making it by non-payment!!!! So There..... thats how you make profit!!!!
and they are not letting the pilots go!!!! still telling them about the Q-400z????

EXCELLANT SHOW....... :D