Single ETOPS alt operations

[jackdaniels]

Dear Ppruners,
my company is adopting the single ETOPS alternate policy...
I do have a lot of problems with this for various reasons:
-it stretches unnecessarily the window of suitability of the alt selected
-it does not provide an ETP
-the etops scenario is completely phony
-if the alt goes bellow plate mins or notam closes while airborne you are f*ck*d:ugh:

Just wondering who else is using this technique and what do you think about it
jd

[DXR]

My company policy is that you can use a single ETOPS alternate if you need to, but it's preferred to not. If it's a case of nothing else is legal at dispatch and you can make it work with one, then go.

Personally, I don't have any issues using one alternate. The ETP issue isn't a problem, since it is to determine which alternate you would go to if you have multiples. In the case of one, you're always going there (per the plan). If the weather drops, or the airport closes, make a new plan. if you can't continue on safely... go back. And if the catastrophic happens, i'm sending the airplane to the closest piece of concrete (or gravel if need be), whether its a closed AD, a taxiway, or fogged in.

I've never had to use a single ETOPS altn, and more often then not it will add more ETOPS fuel then using 2 or more. Plus ou pilos aren't trained on single ETOPs ops, and it just leads to a lot of questions I try to avoid.

Later

[jackdaniels]

Depending on the flight planning system one is using some are able to calculate etops scenario without ETP, which I agree it is still completely legal however this raises some questions regarding the logic of the whole philosophy of etops! For example flights wb ovr the NAT area that are using as a single etops EINN once they have a failure right bfore hiting the 60 min border of the first adequate aerodrome on Canadian soil according to your rule the guy has to go full backwards to EINN! Now this doesn’t make sense does it??? It is true that the PIC has the authority to divert anywhere he pleases, but I’m pretty sure that the whole purpose of giving them two good alternates, basically telling him where to divert is all about making his life easier during emergency and is not gonna hurt the feelings of the PIC!
And furthermore when the crew inserts the OFP in the FMC they insert as well the etops ALT and the ETOPS scenarios, and in 99% of the cases when a diversion occurs the crew always diverts to the designated etops alt.

[DXR]

JD (like the name)

I think the use of single etops is only worthwhile if, in the example above, everything in the Canadian maritimes are below legal mins. Sure, you could use EINN to get all the way across, and it's perfectly reasonable to say that's dumb. But, by using EINN only, wouldn't you (most likely) be caring a whole bunch of fuel to fly back across the NAT at 10,000? It would most likely not be the optimal fuel economy if you're able to designate 2 or more just to use one.

Like I said, we can do it, but almost never seen it used. usually it would be some pace in the middle (BIKF or in the pacific if it's the day PASY has good weather). It's sort of a last resort before cancelling.