RAF/ATC Air Experience Flights (AEF)

[LHR747]

To all military and AEF pilots.

[Note: AEF flights are where cadets in the Combined Cadet Force (CCF) and Air Training Corps (ATC) are taken up for 25 minute air experience flights (AEF) in order to stimulate an interest in aviation and the RAF.]

Last year there were two tragic mid-air collisions involving the Grob Tutor aircraft, where 3 young ATC cadets and 3 AEF pilots lost their lives. Since then it is understood that a number of changes have been made to the way AEF flights are operated in order to address these two accidents and the safety shortfall in AEF operations.

As an ATC Training Officer I have been asked by the parents of a number of cadets what these specific changes are. Whilst I have been given some information it would be interesting to hear from any pilots, whether civilian or military who operate AEF flights, what changes they have implemented to date.

Many thanks
LHR747

[gijoe]

:eek:

:uhoh:

:D

:=

...and have it punched over the front page of the Sun - no thanks!

:ok:

[ibbi]

I'd suggest that you should contact your Wing HQ, and ask the WgExO to provide the info you need..... that way you can be sure of the accuracy of the information provided.

[gijoe]

Correct answer.

[gazellemiester]

In addition to the WgExO, try your Wing Flying and Gliding Liaison Officer who (I would imagine) will also have information at their fingertips.

I am also pretty sure that if you were still struggling then a polite telephone call to your local AEF Commander would also ellicite some info for you. :ok:

[Jackonicko]

The first thing to tell any parent is that there never was a "safety shortfall in AEF operations", and that the recent changes to the operation have merely improved what was already an extremely sharp and safe operation.

And that from a journo.

[Old-Duffer]

Basically, the safety video, which is shown to all cadets before every flight, has been amended to make it more explicit as to how the canopy comes off in extremis and how to give it a friendly nudge if it does not. There is apparently no suggestion that the canopies had anything to do with the survival aspects of the accidents but is more a careful review of procedures following the accidents.

There are some changes to the number of sorties each AEF pilot may do without a break (3) when flying cadets.

Parents can be assured that AEF flying is as safe as it can be made and I've never met a cadet yet who - whilst perhaps nervous beforehand - does not want to go again.

ATC & CCF(RAF) - BEST YOUTH ORGANISATIONS IN THE COUNTRY

O-D

[Sook]

Also from my last visit to an AEF a few weeks ago, all first time flyers are required to show they can open their QR harness, get up and pull a dummy D-ring on their chute. There has been one other change that I'm aware of but I agree a quick ring to the CO of your local AEF will get you the answers you need.

[RUCAWO]

It came out on paper and BADER a while back , look at your Sqn admim it's all there as I briefed all my staff and cadets about this when it came out. I find it strange that a "number" of your cadets parents have approached you about this as none of mine have asked about this at all and I think this has been normal across our Wing.

[LHR747]

Thank you for your replies so far on this matter. Perhaps what is being elicited here is the possibility of there being different safety criteria between civil and military operations. This is perhaps only something which those with experience in both types of operations would be best placed to answer. Allied to this, are changes to operating practices specifically aimed at avoiding mid-air collisions or air proximity incidents. For example by directing each AEF pilot to operate in a different quadrant from that of the other flights at each base. The AEF flights differ in many respects from normal instructional flights of the sort that form the basis of the PPL license. These differences would require additional care and involve the cadet in taking on some aspects in the safety of the operation.

Clearly until the two accidents in 2009 the AEF flights had an unblemished record and deservedly so.

[barnstormer1968]

Hi.
Just as RUCAWO has pointed out, it is strange that you do not already know, as you are an ATC officer!

I also find it strange that you seem to know less about some procedures than the cadets themselves.

The answers you need to answer your original question, are already posted on this thread above. I am merely trying to be helpful, as I guess you would not want this thread to run into trouble, or be removed, and lead to another censorship thread on your part:)

Is it just me, or does any talk of AEF flights bring back the words "Jump John jump":ok: (Oh, and little paper sick bags)

[G-KEST]

58 years ago I had my first air experience flight in a service Tiger Moth at Cambridge while a member of 1361 ATC squadron located at Fakenham Grammar School. What a blast. Some 13,200 flying hours later, and somewhat wiser, I well remember the thrill of that flight. It reinforced my ambition to have a career in aviation. Young folk need real inspiration in this age of instant gratification. AEF's provide such an inspiration.

Life itself is risk.... though that is not appreciated in this PC and H&S world of today.

Cheers,

Reaper 69
:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Postman Plod]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, or sciolists*, to elicit certain reactions.

As an ex ATC Training Officer myself, I have alarm bells ringing in my head... I might be wrong, and I apologise if I am. Why ask these questions here...? A rumours forum seems a very odd place to be asking for reassurance? My first points of contact if I was looking to reassure parents would be Wing Flying & Gliding Liaison, the AEF, Wing, Bodger, the cadets themselves etc. I'm not sure exactly what kind of response you're looking for here that you wouldn't get through asking the right people?

[ian16th]

AEF were part and parcel of Boy Entrant and Aircraft Apprentice life.

My 1st flight was in an Avro Anson at RAF Lynham in 1952 :ok:

[Bluejay]

'Jump John Jump' now there's a memory

1st AEF flight 1988 first year CCF(RAF) Cadet in a Chipmunk at Teversham (Cambridge) Airport with 5AEF, last AEF flight 2002/3 as an ATC AWO was with 5AEF at RAF Wyton with the Grob Tutor, whilst on Summer Camp at RAF Wittering

Fantastic experience right from donning the cloth cap and bone dome to being allowed to take control and fly your own aeros - recommend it to anyone!

:ok::ok::ok:

[barnstormer1968]

Postman Plod.

Check your PM's:ok:

[Geehovah]

Dare I say that the risks are so small and the professionalism so high, that if either cadets or parents are worried by that risk then a career in military aviation is not for them..

[astir 8]

Also see GASIL publication 2010/02, last 2 paragraphs of the item "Gliders are difficult to see"