FlightSafety International Johannesburg

[Prop Job]

Has anybody heard when training will commence and what prices we are looking at? According to the press release they were planning to start in March, but I haven't heard anything yet.

https://www.flightsafety.com/data/news/fp_169.pdf?u=18d46409-7a1e-48dc-a5e4-8aac0da08cfd

Regards,

Prop Job

[MungoP]

Don't know the prices but I can say for sure that ...

A. For Sure: The cost will definately be the highest available (unless you're a company able to negotiate a discount)

B. For Sure: The training will be the best available.

If you're looking for the cheapest training... go elsewhere.

[proceeding outbound]

The most expensive – yes.
The best available - a very bold statement but perhaps you have tipped over the "edge of reality". I'm sure many organizations provide top quality training, some may be better and some may be worse.

What are you comparing them to - the local flying school or CAE, Simuflight etc?

[MungoP]

Check your PMs

[Fuzzy Lager]

FSI training is streaks ahead of anything available in SA. Truly a different league.

[verreaux eagle]

I agree, FSI is miles ahead of their competition!:ok: I speak from experience. Will have to see how they do in SA though!

[proceeding outbound]

FSI will not use our company SOP unless we sign a 3 year contract - way to go for customer service.:ok:

It's all about the money with them.:ugh: We will be swapping TRTO's as soon as an alternate is available.

[Der absolute Hammer]

I do not think that FSI are opening a base/training center in South Africa in order to 'do' well in SA. I do not think that the domestic SA market will have figured that importantly in FSIs calculations.
They instead possible are looking for a mid - global southern hemisphere training base with excellent and reliable communications and a certain technical reference ability. A feeder trainer route, the Simonstown of the air.
They may also make a lot of money during the world cup from all those fabulously rich executives splashing out to fly simulators in what passes these days among the great fritterers of the filthy lucre, as corporate bonding.
Good luck to them anyway. Who knows and who dares say if it were true but perhaps many SA pilots could do with a dose of a different, stricter and more demanding type of training from that which they usually enjoy?
The answer to that sortof question might be written once again in the sands of Namibia?

[DASHER 8]

All i know is that as a Dash 8 operator SAX was pretty excited about having a Dash sim on our doorstep untill : 1) Believe it or not we are going to continue to use the Madrid based sim because despite the travel costs and hotel bills etc it is cheaper than using the one on our doorstep.
2) The JNB sim is an old ex Paris sim which was and still is in pretty bad shape.(thats why we stoped using it when it was still in Paris)

I am not sure of the wisdom of this pricing strategy nor the quality of training that will be provided with this sub-standard sim.

[diegrootwitbeen]

As far as the 1900 simulator goes it is an exeptional piece of equipment, and I have trained at FSI NYC, and flew this one on invitation a few weeks ago.

The simulators are dry lease, therefore I cannot see why they wont accept a company's SOP, since you provide your own instructors and training material, as approved by CAA in chapter 4 of your company operations manual....

The contracts with FSI are valid for ONE year renewable, I know, We have two.

As far as pricing is concerned, less than a 3rd of actual aircraft cost, maby your company should have signed that training agreement sooner, 1900 "simulators" like 43adv MUST LOSE CERTIFICATION, it is not a 1900, and should be used for what it was built for, a procedural trainer.

A large operator's Chief Pilot informed me that the sim will cost as much as the plane and only here to train foreigners and run by the Chinese !

Stop believing everything you hear at the watercooler or the bar, pull your head out of your ass and go see what the facility is all about

Bone

[proceeding outbound]

Thanks for the wonderful piece of advice but we have our wires crossed slightly. You are referring to FSI Jhb specifically, which I agree is the topic of this thread whilst I am talking about FS INTERNATIONAL - the company as a whole.

My information IS directly from my frequent dealings with FSI. Compared to the other companies in Europe, FSI is very expensive and in our case a lot more expensive than operating our own aircraft. We cannot use our own instructors at FSI and the training standards are good but so are the other service providers in Europe.

[Q4NVS]

Stop believing everything you hear at the watercooler or the bar, pull your head out of your ass and go see what the facility is all about

That is quite BRAVE for someone with 10 Posts...:ugh:

[diegrootwitbeen]

WOW Q4,

Did you think of that one all by yourself? with 484 posts YOURS MUST WITHOUT A DOUBT be bigger than mine or did it dawn on you that I might only say something that I deemto be relevant?

and yes, Brave I am, and if you look at my name, very likely bigger than you....

So, why dont you post something relevant to the thread, instead of dispensing your vast wisdom on my amount of posts.

Bone

[Der absolute Hammer]

Many long hours I have spent in sims, all over the world and on many different types, from 747 to PA 34. Standards have always been consistently high throughout and the job has always been successfully done to satisfaction. However, as with all training, two simulator instructors remain firmly imbedded in my log book as being outstanding.
These were. I hope still are, the instructors with whom one would gladly go into the red eye slot over and over again and with whom the training detail passed in a twinkle of time.
As a point of interest though, if you cannot use your own IRE/TRE in the simulator then are all FSI Jhb/Int instructors licensed by lots of different CAAs to sign out customers IRs and 1179s or equivalents on ICAO, JAA and FAA licences and how do they manage to keep current on such qualifications? Perhaps it is only that FSI/JHB will not let anyone who does not work for them actually operate the simulator? That is the same rule as ANZ used to have in their simulators.

[diegrootwitbeen]

Hammer,

The Sim's are dry lease, Part of the lease agreement is also training for your company instructor/s to operate the sim, about $2000 US per candidate, Actual behind the scenes running and maintanance is a French company, cannot recall the name.

FSI will oversee the business side, slot allocation etc, but will not supply instructors or their training material.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Thanks, that is what has to be would and what is the common practice, nothing else would make sense. Some sim technicians get on a bit better with some sim instructors than with others, especially in those early hours.

[ZFT]

The Sim's are dry lease, Part of the lease agreement is also training for your company instructor/s to operate the sim, about $2000 US per candidate,

..and if this is not a rip off, then I don't know what is. Any reputable operator should/would provide instructor training/briefing via electronic means (DVD etc) or hands on as a free service and any good IOS should have an on line help system anyway.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Well, as you may say, hang on a mo!
If it were my simulator, I do not now that I would want just anyone restarting or resetting the suimulator based on self taught DVD. You used to have to be signed out as a simultaor instructor. Time may have changed things but you can, if you now how to do it, do serious damage to a simulator even with out throwing it off its jacks.
Still FSI or any training operator would be able to confirm what they require to sign out a company IR/TR as a Sim trainer.

[Q4NVS]

WOW Q4,

Did you think of that one all by yourself? with 484 posts YOURS MUST WITHOUT A DOUBT be bigger than mine or did it dawn on you that I might only say something that I deemto be relevant?

and yes, Brave I am, and if you look at my name, very likely bigger than you....

So, why dont you post something relevant to the thread, instead of dispensing your vast wisdom on my amount of posts.

Bone
In fact, I did...

Now, when the blood returns from your "diegrootwitbeen" to something more usefull, you will realise that it was You telling someone to "pull your head out of your ass" := while that person was giving an opinion on the very same Sim he had actually flown when it was based in Paris.

I am sure we are all convinced that it was deemto be relevant

:yuk:

Coat, Hat, Door...

[ZFT]

Der absolute Hammer,

I do not now that I would want just anyone restarting or resetting the suimulator based on self taught DVD. You used to have to be signed out as a simultaor instructor. Time may have changed things but you can, if you now how to do it, do serious damage to a simulator even with out throwing it off its jacks.

We do just that with JAA approved Level D sims. Are you seriously trying to tell me that an airline TRE/TRI isn't competent to operate a sim? (If the instructor is totally new to the sim we will even put a sim tech in with the crew to assist if requested).

As to "do serious damage to a simulator even with out throwing it off its jacks" Sorry but this is total rubbish. There is nothing the operator can do to cause serious damage.

The worst action an instructor can perform (and they do often) - hitting that damn emergency stop button,

[Wagw370]

A TRI/TRE is not competant to operate a JAA level D sim until they have completed the relevant training course.They then become a SFI/SFE.I am an SFI training on JAA level D simulator.

[ZFT]

I'm sorry. There is no course required or necessary to operate a specific sim as a TRI or SFI. (I am surprised no TRE/TRI has challenged your comment!)

[Spadhampton]

If you are concerned, why not just book a course with an existing Flight Safety facility, purchase travel and attend? Nice to have local training but this training is available elsewhere.

[maxrated]

Anyone know where they are going to operate from ?

What are the facilities, classrooms, groundschool going to be like ?

[Contract Dog]

About time! The 43 advanced sausage factory has had the upper hand for too many years at OTT prices. to be given the right to give 1900 ratings on that piece of **** BE20 sim with NOTHING working on it and BE20 power settings and characteristics is beyond me. Somone in the CAA mast have a good bank account statement by now for that piece of crap to be certified in the first place.

The fact that FSI saw potential here in **** hole SA to put a sim here (D sim) means

A. there is money to be made

B. We need training cos we are all ****!

C. SA has a rep for being the best in Africa and needs to continue in this vane regardless of cost.

I go with A and C

Dog

[wessel_words]

Let me give you people some advice.

Just because it is expensive does not mean the training is the best. If you want the most cost effective and the best training go to FSI, in the USA. The money you will save will more than cover your air tickets, hire car etc., with money left over.

FSI has a setup at Paris. That is expensive and the worst training and the worst sim instructor I have ever Had (one even tried to steal my job). They went out of their way to complicate things.

I will never ever set foot on their premises again and instructed the pilots I am responsible for, never to go there. They all go to the US for their training.