Westboud to Europe against the wind

[nomorecatering]

My met books talk about the general wind patterns, flowing pretty much west to east, not to mention the jet streams. Thats no problem.

Now I had a question put to me that I wasnt sure of the answer. So I'm relyi on the wiser more expperianced heads.

Can, given a high enough service ceiling of your jet, out climb the winds and get above the topopause to the calmer air. particularly talking about the region west of India/Maldives towards Europe.

I know what the text books say, but wondering what is the actual experiace of crews. How high would you have to go to get above the strong westerly winds.

[By George]

Ex SIN at heavy weights initial 280, over Bay of Bengal 300, over Afganistan 350, Eastern Europe 380 and nearly always headwind of some sort. Have never outclimbed the wind. Forecast winds tend to increase up to around 450 and rare to fly a long-haul jet above 400. The business jets get up there and above but they seem few and far between in my experience.

[Keg]

Quite often the jetstream over Australia drops off a bit above FL450 (given that it tends to be about where the tropopause is).

I seem to recall that Concorde used to get up above the jetstream into relatively low winds but I'm not sure how accurate that is.

[zlin77]

Also, the flight routing is often changed to escape the worst winds, I've done BOM-LHR over Pakistan, Iran, Turkey....... and over Afghanistan, Turkmenistan.......most modern computer flight planning programmes look at all the options and calculate minimum time (cost) routes.

[Capt Fathom]

Quite often the jetstream over Australia drops off a bit above FL450 (given that it tends to be about where the tropopause is)

Actually where the level of the tropopause changes (or steps) is where you find the jet. And anywhere between FL280 & FL450. The worst turbulence is most often found on the southern side of the jet (in the southern hemisphere).

Sometimes you can stay under them, sometimes above. More than likely, they are just at the wrong height, and you're stuck with it!

The SIGWX Chart provides a wealth of info when planning flights!

[Jay Arr]

Often better to stay LOW and get under the jetstreams. Increased fuel burn is offset by improved ground speed. Going SYD-PER is a good example - sit down around FL280 even if optimum level is much higher.

Once upon a time the Aussie SIGWX charts had 80kt gradient FLs marked on jetstreams. The FL's above and below the core of a >120kt jetstream where wind has dropped to 80kt were marked under the jetstream's core FL, eg, 300/450 depicted underneath FL380 meant that whilst the max speed (at that geogrphical position) occurs at FL380, down at FL300 and up at FL450 the wind is 80kt. Gives you an idea of CAT risk (tighter gradient beware) but also gives you a better idea of whether outclimbing or staying under was worthwhile.

Someone in Australia decided it was too hard to generate these within the latest software so they were dropped from the Aussie generated SIGWX charts. I guess they figured no one bothered to look or understand the numbers. If you do actually want the info for Australia, it's available: you have to get the London generated SIGWX chart that covers Australia.

[mates rates]

Used to fly MEL-MRU usually flight plan at FL240-280 until about 70E which is about 2 hours west of PER.You would then be clear of the jet-stream and could climb to higher levels.

[4Greens]

Just to add a little, the Tropopause is higher in the Tropics which means you can fly higher without encountering jetstreams.

[Tmbstory]

On many occasions in the past, when flying near the Equator at high level the normal westerly winds would drop off and sometimes even change to a slow easterly.

However, when you would leave the Equator area , the winds would return to the west.

Tmb