Red Arrows collision (Merged)

[Polarhero]

Sky reporting two red arrows collided nr crete.

Update. Now reporting pilot in hospital after ejecting.

[iwalkedaway]

BBC 24 reporting collision over Cyprus - one 'pilot' in hospital after baling out, other a/c involved landed safely. Here's hoping no second crewman in lost a/c, or if there was there's another survivor.

[sucksqueezeBANGstop]

They don't carry passangers when flying formation (which the news reports say they were), only on transit flights.

[Wholigan]

Oops!


It seems that 2 mods were merging the last 2 threads on this topic at EXACTLY the same time and have totally confused the wiggly amps, so that the redirects are going into what seems to be a closed loop and neither of the old threads is now available.


So, feel free to post what you did before in here.

:O

[G-CPTN]

BBC News - Red Arrows pilot in hospital after mid-air crash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/8583263.stm)

[MagnusP]

Some information at:

BBC News - Red Arrows pilot in hospital after mid-air crash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/8583263.stm)

[sucksqueezeBANGstop]

More trouble than they're worth these Mods ;-)

Times Online (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7072608.ece)

Hellenic Defence News (http://hellenicdefencenews.********.com/2010/03/red-arrows-update.html)

[goudie]

The state of the two aircraft is not yet known. Times


Well one is certainly a cat 5

[G-CPTN]

How long do we have to endure the automatic ban on the word b l o g s p o t ?

DefenceNet just posted that the number of aircraft that were involved in the accident were 2. Initially it posted the number of aircraft involved was 3. According to this site there was only one ejection. The other pilot managed to land his aircraft. The Red Arrows team has been at the Kastelli Air Base since yesterday and was scheduled to be there until 31/03.

Reportedly the pilot who ejected has been seriously injured. No fatalities have been reported.

Edit: According to another report the injuries of the pilot who ejected are not threatening.

The pilot ejected at low altitude while over the runway. There were no injuries on the ground as a result of the crash.


DefenceNet - ??????? ????????? ??? Hawk ??? Red Arrows ??? ??????? ??? ??????! (A???????) (http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11349&Itemid=139)

http://greece-salonika.b l o g s p o t.com/2010/03/red-arrows.html

[Mad-Air]

Worrying thing is that they Op from Cyprus at this time of year. Lets hope it isn't one the two new members of the team. My thoughts are with the team.

[BOAC]

It seems that 2 mods were merging the last 2 threads on this topic at EXACTLY the same time and have totally confused the wiggly amps - just cannot get the staff, can you?

EDIT: To remove confusion over pic of 'crashed Hawk'

[gareth herts]

Red Arrows Collide Over Crete: One Pilot Ejects Before Plane Crashes, Second Craft Makes Landing | World News | Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Red-Arrows-Collide-Over-Crete-One-Pilot-Ejects-Before-Plane-Crashes-Second-Craft-Makes-Landing/Article/201003415580343?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_1&lid=ARTICLE_15580343_Red_Arrows_Collide_Over_Crete%3A_One_Pi lot_Ejects_Before_Plane_Crashes%2C_Second_Craft_Makes_Landin g)

[Flarkey]

image from the sky webpage...

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/Mar/Week4/15580386.jpg

[callsign Metman]

doesn't really look like Crete in that pic of 252 though..

The one on the Greek website I mean.

[tubby linton]

The blurb on sky says that the picture was taken at Iraklion,and that is right next to the sea.

[ACARS]

At least is didn't happen during the airshow season. Many more could be affected. This is exactly why they go through such demaning training.

Let's hope there isn't a big backlash with this one. Best wishes to the team.

[Nashers]

just heard one is in hospital after ejecting. his status is not known yet to the media and the other managed to land safely.

hopefuly nothing serious and they will be up and running again in no time.

[teeteringhead]

They don't carry passangers when flying formation

They don't take pax as such in formation, but in their PDA workup they have on occasions taken senior supervisors (and VERY senior supervisors) in the back......

[Romeo E.T.]

as far as I have it

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/Mar/Week4/15580386.jpg

1 of the 2 aircraft and the rest of the Team landed safely while the other has crashed into the sea - pilot ejected safely and is now in hospital with a dislocated shoulder.

[Lancasterman]

BOAC:Having zoomed the pic of the jet, it looks remarkably as if 252 is having a really bad time, no matter what colour it is painted.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif You can almost hear it saying "oh no, here we go again...."

Whats the deal with 252 and your comment?:confused:

[finfly1]

A spokesman is quoted: ""We can confirm that an incident has occurred "

Does the fact that it is termed an "incident" rather than an accident suggest they are keeping open the possibility that it was deliberate? Otherwise, why not just say an accident.

[tubby linton]

252 is not shown as a current team aircraft so it may be an old photo.
RAF Red Arrows - The Hawk Aircraft (http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/behindthescenes/hawkaircraft.cfm)

[mark25787]

There is a generalised train of thought to get away from the term "Accident".
In Police circles, the definition RTA (Road Traffic Accident) has now been moved to RTC (Road Traffic Collision).

No-one for one minute will be suggesting that this was a deliberate act. These guys are the cream of the crop of RAF pilots, but due to the nature of their performance, there is always the chance of an incident, particularly in training where new maneouvres are being undertaken and new Reds are being brought on board.

Let's wish the injured pilot a speedy recovery, and hopefully with it being so early in the season, they'll be able to bring in a replacement Red without too much disruption. I assume they'll have a "reserve" pilot for incidents such as this? Will they just go on practising using the Red 10 aircraft now? Can they shuffle a new Hawk from training duties @ Valley or somewhere else as a replacement aircraft?

[Deano777]

finfly1 you are just being pedantic and nit picking. Why do you feel the need to do it?

[XV410]

Hawk T.1A XX252 17 Oct 98 RAF Cranwell, Landed short after practice. Ejected OK.

[troddenmasses]

All accidents are incidents - it's just that all incidents aren't accidents. A pic of the one that lost.

Red_Arrows_Hawk_Crash.jpg (image) (http://tinyurl.com/ygsulbg)

[Pilot Positive]

finfly1 - would the use of the word "incident" refer to the fact that they were intentionally undertaking dangerous display flying where a collision could occur (and in this case did)?

These guys are the best in the world. So lets all just hope they are both are OK.

[Betablockeruk]

Describing such events as a 'collision' or 'incident' are an avoidance of initial blame (until proven otherwise). Stops the "have you had an accident?" types getting excited about a claim and commission.

[TwoOneFour]

Troddenmasses - I think that's an old photo. It has an old livery.

[Lancasterman]

That pic was taken in 1998

[mark25787]

This is the Reds 2010 Team...

RED 1 - Sqn Ldr Ben Murphy (from Loughborough)
RED 2 - Flt Lt Ben Plank (Worcestershire)
RED 3 - Flt Lt Kirsty Moore (Lincolnshire)
RED 4 - Flt Lt Dave Davies (Colwyn Bay, Wales)
RED 5 - Flt Lt Zane Sennett (Lincolnshire)
RED 6 - Flt Lt Mike Ling (Kent)
RED 7 - Flt Lt David Montenegro (Kent)
RED 8 - Sqn Ldr Graham Duff (Cumbria)
RED 9 - Flt Lt Simon Rea (New Zealand)
RED 10 (and Road Manager) - Sqn Ldr Graeme Bagnall (Cumbria)

Let's hope it's not Red 3 that crashed or else it'll give the anti-female aviator lobby ammunition.

[Lancasterman]

ok is that pic the one circulating and being passed off as the greek crash? Do they not realise that an aircraft that crashed on land and one ejected and crashed into sea are too different things?

[srobarts]

The RAF report (http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0DDA8E91-BE34-4E88-B26E-25CC0BD2E153/0/maas98_04_hawk_t1_xx252_17nov98.pdf) on the '98 crash of 252 has the aircraft destroyed by the impact

[clunckdriver]

Having spent a portion of my miss spent youth performing for the "ice cream lickers" I still have the impresion that this is just what a portion of the crowd come to see, I made a habit of doning civies and wandering amoungst them and engageing in conversation, most interesting to say the least, human nature I gues.

[Finn47]

Reuters now reporting "broken legs", according to a Greek official, FWIW:

"The pilot who ejected has broken his legs. He is being transferred to an Athens hospital," said the official.Two Red Arrows jets collide over Crete | World | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE62M2XY20100323)

[Chris Scott]

For what it's worth, troddenmasses is right. Anything non-standard can be described as an "incident".

An "accident" (as defined in UK Air Law) is, if memory serves, an incident in which anyone is injured, or the aircraft is substantially damaged.

Media definitions, however, are presumably the product of their fertile imaginations...

[seven4mankind]

Best wishes to them both for a speedy recovery; it always stops your heart hearing news like this.

[NigelOnDraft]

Let's hope it's not Red 3 that crashed or else it'll give the anti-female aviator lobby ammunitionA local interviewed on R5L seemed to give a coherent account... and from that I would suggest it involved 2 "more experienced" members of the team, possibly proceeding in opposite directions :oh:

NoD

[Betablockeruk]

"synchro pair" from BBC reporter located at Scampton

[sitigeltfel]

IIRC the synchro pair are Reds 6 & 7.

[cats_five]

It looked pretty destroyed to me as in clearly never going to fly again even though not splintered into several thousand pieces.

[Pure Pursuit]

The Daily Mail online shows a photo of one of the guys being put in an ambulance. It's a close up and it does not take a rocket scientist to ID the pilot. :ugh:

I appreciate that there is a freedom of speech issue however, I do hope the photo went out AFTER the NOK were informed.

Get well soon mate.

[Fg Off Kite]

Ahh yes,

the old 'you go right I'll go left' routine.......

[wokkamate]

That photo is in pretty bad taste I think - makes you wonder who took it. :mad:

Get well soon mate! :ok:

[Pure Pursuit]

RAFAT are working on getting it binned.

[MadsDad]

Firstly I hope the pilot concerned is ok.

I was also wondering what would happen to the displays this year if one of the pilots became unavailable. The only thing I could think of is one of the pilots who 'retired' this year could be brought back - although a '7 ship' would be an option obviously. (I was thinking of last year when the Tucano displays had to be cancelled after the pilot there was injured).

[MichaelBuckle]

MoD have confirmed it was Flt Lt Mike Ling who ejected and Flt Lt Dave Montenegro who managed to land.

More info here (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/TrainingAndAdventure/PilotsSafeAfterRedArrowsCollision.htm).

[2Planks]

Wokkamate - please don't be too hard on the photographer - save your ire for the Daily Mail. The photog works in a country (much like most Mediterranean ones) where death and injury are pretty much public property. Its not wrong - just different, for example on a recent Spanish hol there were pictures on the news of dead bodies by the roadside and on a construction site - certainly on National TV before anyone could have been informed.
Where UK morals and standards should have been applied is the Editorial Office at the Mail - they have failed to act in accordance with British Values of what is decent in our eyes.

[Talk Reaction]

Drastic thoughts about team cuts, wasn't someone injured a year or two back and they flew 7/8 until he was fit part way through the season?? I hope excuses aren't made to cut. Get well soon and back in the saddle for a great season!

[ArthurR]

Sky news reporting dislocated shoulder on pilot who ejected, good to see no serious injuries, aircraft can be replaced...
I would say that was a good result from a collision on the type of flying these guys do.

[Pure Pursuit]

The DM has blurred the pilot's face out. Not before time!

[RetiredSHRigger]

Glad to hear all ok.

I for one, can not understand why the pre season work up is not being carried out at Akrotiri as is normal, bearing in mind the current defence budget furore. Any reason for Crete?:=

[Si71]

The Sun is still carrying the photo without any blurring of the pilot's face/rank.

They were/are still planning to go to Akrotiri in a few weeks.

[helimarshaller]

Pleased to here that both pilots are OK. Lets hope they are back in the air soon.

RetiredSHRigger

I for one, can not understand why the pre season work up is not being carried out at Akrotiri as is normal, bearing in mind the current defence budget furore. Any reason for Crete?

The past few years has seen the Reds start there training in Greece before moving onto Akrotiri to finish the training and get the OK to display. This year is no different. According to the Reds website they are due to leave Kastelli for Akrotiri on 1st April.

[Trim Stab]

Apparently it was the syncho-pair, according to the concurrent thread on R&N.

I think there may be some repercussions from this in the medium term. Given the swingeing cuts that the RN and Army are accepting in their PR budgets I can't see them offering much morale support to the RAF's decision to send a C-130 and ten Hawks to Greece, then accidentally damaging/destroying two £5m aircraft by deliberately flying them headlong at each other...

[BEagle]

Now on the official MoD website:

Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Training and Adventure | Pilots safe after Red Arrows collision (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/TrainingAndAdventure/PilotsSafeAfterRedArrowsCollision.htm)

......ejected from his aircraft sustaining a dislocated shoulder and minor injuries associated with an ejection. His aircraft was severely damaged on impact with the runway.

Get well soon, old chap.

'Severely damaged' - no $hit, Sherlock...:\

[Gwladys]

C130 Bloke & Trim Stab: Well done for your posts - I'm sure the Families at home are really considering the impact of the medical condition of their son/partner on the PR10 outcome. You wouldn't happen to be frustrated fast-jet mates would you (as a multi pilot, I can say that with a clear conscience)? Did you always want to be in the Reds, like most of us if we're honest, when you were young and now enjoy taking any opportunity to comment on those significantly more talented than yourselves??
You should be ashamed. I hope the Pilot makes a speedy recovery, and gets back to where he has worked bloody hard to be - 9 ship and all.

[RetiredSHRigger]

Thanks for putting me straight Helimarshaller.

I watched one half of the syncro pair bounce down the runway with the luckiest pilot alive pulled out of the disintegrating wreckage by his own parachute at Akrotiri back in march 84 whilst on the beirut evacuation with 18 sqn. The reds were not amused when the score cards came out as they taxied back to dispersal, zeros all round :D

[SaddamsLoveChild]

I do envy these boys and girls flying ability but do have to ask its net worth to Defence per se. Whilst these things (collisions and crashes)always give me the jitters I do have to ask if the circa 1.5 million (I have checked my figures and they were last years) spent on coloured diesel may be better spent on the defence budget and not touting a morally and financially suspect british waste of space company. Wouldnt a reduction in jets mean a freeing up of TG1 and 2 to the fleets that need them?

I am sure the green army would have something to spend the money on in the sandy place of happiness.

[bakerpictures]

The pilot who ejected appears to be Red 6, the Synchro Leader so he'll be hard to replace at this point in prep for the season if he's out of action for long. They're weeks away from PDA so these weeks are crucial to their work-ups.

I don't know this particular flyer personally but wish him and RAFAT a speedy recovery.

[Gwladys]

Oh come on fellas - there really is a time and a place for this nonsense. The Reds debate is hardly for today, or do we get some enjoyment out of kicking people when they're undoubtedly feeling pretty down.

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned.....?

[Quazzi]

no matter what you think about the validity of the team at least keep those opinions to yourself until the pilot is up on his feet again.
Shame on the media who have released pictures of the pilot being taken into hospital.
Get well soon fella and hope to see all nine performing their world famous display many times this season.

[Farfrompuken]

Well the Sun's pics has confirmed my fears.:uhoh:

To the both of you: get well soon.

Thoughts are with you and your folks.

[Farfrompuken]

I know the ejectee well and am gutted he's in pain.

However better outcome than could have been.

Speedy recovery and a face-lick awaits!:ok:

[barnstormer1968]

Farfrompuken, Well said.

Best thoughts and wishes to those involved, and their families.

As for:
"one of the pilots has some very minor injuries, unnecessarily inflicted through bravado of dubious worth?"

I only know what has been reported in the media so far, so as you know the full details, please post them. I always pray that the only thing hurt in an ejection is pride, but do they are pretty violent experiences to say the least.

As for knowing the accident involved bravado, don't forget to make yourself available to any BOI:ok:

[louis261288]

I think he may have signed a red arrow book for me last Bournemouth Airshow ... (However I didn't try licking his face though Farfrompuken :p )

God speed thier recovery.

[The Old Fat One]

Tis not the time to be writing "Tis" when you are trying to say "it is not".

The rags carrying the photos are amongst the most worthless products humankind has managed to find a market for. if you read such ****e, you deserve all you get.

Get well soon mate and get back in the air. This old fart still gets goosebumps whenever you appear.

[2Planks]

To stop any further gnashing of teeth re names and pictures - here's the official announcement. Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Training and Adventure | Pilots safe after Red Arrows collision (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/TrainingAndAdventure/PilotsSafeAfterRedArrowsCollision.htm)

[orca]

I might be sick, i might be human - but isn't the thrill of air shows and in particular something as dynamic as the synchro pair, the fact that it is dangerous and that some plucky and talented bloke is up there doing it?

I don't begrudge these chaps two aeroplanes or any amount of coloured deisel. Airshows would be absolutely toilet if there was nothing spectacular about them and with spectacle comes danger. These guys do an amazing display in a modified trainer and charge at each other at speeds that the average human will never experience. In short, it was going to happen at some point! It's part of the game.

I am a fully paid up crab basher, but love the reds. I think that getting rid of them would be a mistake, and know that if we ever make display aviation flawlessly safe, we'll lose one of the main reasons we all love it. It would be like an un-contested scrum. Pointless.

Lastly - I have no idea what the head-to-head sanctuary plan is - but can we surmise that one of them owes the UK an aircraft, and his mate a beer?

Best wishes for a speedy recovery. And a pragmatic BOI!

[ArthurR]

The stay in hospital could be from the ejection, the dislocation from a loose shoulder strap, its possible they will be testing for back injuries, lets hope they find nothing. best of luck you guys.

[reader8]

Oh, and congrats to the mods on a most apt thread title. bravo.:D

[PPRuNe Pop]

You will notice that a few posts have been deleted - and you probably don't need me to tell you why. So stay on topic guys and cut the spats, they are completely unnecessary.

PPP

[Fintastic]

Get well soon.:ok:

[G-CPTN]

I do have to ask if the circa 1.5 million . . . may be better spent on the defence budget and not touting a morally and financially suspect british waste of space company.
The Sparrows have been the major draw at airshows for many years now (XH558 has slightly eclipsed them recently).
I've seen the crowds disperse as soon as they have finished their display (unless they started the day's flying). Joe Public might not fully appreciate the skill required - but they know what they want to watch!
I've also seen people of all ages crowding to get autographs - and who knows how many youngsters have been persuaded to join up through seeing them at some stage of their life, additionally, within the RAF it gives something for the pilots (and ground crews) to aspire to.
So don't underestimate the benefit to the RAF . . .

[SandChopper]

Flown with both guys plenty of times - get well quickly Lingy:ok:.

[Anna's Dad]

May I join in offering my very best wishes to both pilots, their families and their colleagues. I look forward to reading about them all achieving their PDA very soon.

[R. J. A. Taylor]

As the pilots' identities are now in the public domain -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...air-Crete.html

[Aerouk]

Glad to hear they're ok...

Does anyone know if there is a plan in place for a replacement pilot if an event like this happens? Or will the Reds be cancelled for the year?

[Buntybunny]

Well said, with you all the way, hope the poor chap is soon out of pain and ready to join Red Arrows again! Thanks for the post pal!:ok:

[ShyTorque]

The title - two Reds have "merged"? :p

Glad they're OK and hope they're up and about v. soon, flying the flag for the RAF and the UK. Best of luck to them. :ok:

[Greenleader]

Speedy recovery, Lingy. All the best to the whole team.

[serf]

Did he have hair before the collision?

[EGLF24]

On the subject of replacement pilots (the inflatable version above not withstanding!), the Reds do not have them due to the intricacies of learning each of the 9 positions.

I'm not really sure what the implications of this are to the team. I don't expect the team will fly without a Synchro Pair, yet there is no Synchro without a Synchro Leader. I think PDA is still quite a few weeks away but I'm sure Mike Ling's injuries are going to keep him grounded for quite a while.

In the past, a former team member has rejoined the team (Anthony Parkinson) to replace a pilot with a long term illness so I guess this might be an option. Saying that, last year's Synchro Leader was Ben Murphy, but he's now the Team Leader which kinda rules him out!

Anyway, best wishes and a speedy recovery to Flt Lt Ling.

[Squirrel 41]

Great that both ok; all the best to the good Flt Lt Ling.

As has been said, airframes are all replaceable.

S41

PS Lingy, get yerself better so that you can finish up this Hawk formation nonsense and get back to Leu to formate on BEARs and BLACKJACKs!

[christn]

Best wishes from a non-military driver! You chaps have given my family and I great pleasure for many years. I can only stand back and admire your skills (I fell off the bog this morning trying to replace a lightbulb!)

[christn]

And before anyone asks I meant in the ceiling!!

[Father Jack Hackett]

Some people will do anything to get out of running the London Marathon!;)

Seriously, get well soon fella.

[Taildragger67]

It appers that some on this thread know the involved pilots personally.

At the risk of stating the obvious, might I suggest that one of these posters maybe print out this thread and send it to them? I'm sure they'd be bolstered by the level of support and best wishes most of us are pointing their way.

Red Arrows = the best of British.

[ChrisKitson]

With the demise of the Royal Tournament and the sadness that surronds those returning through Wootton Bassett we should all apprciate the admiration, goodwill and support that the Red Arrows generate around the UK and within the public. In addition to that they demonstrate around the world the level of dedication, competance and skill that the members of the british forces work to. In that respect they represent us all. All members of the forces, who perform to a high level, know how hard it is to get there, the impact of the sacrafices they make and how important it is to have support back at home. Support the Reds generate for themselves and everyone.
There can be no price put on this - in my opinion!

[Wander00]

Best wishes to the two guys involved, and to the whole team. It was a great privilege to be on the fringes as a Trustee of the Red Arrows Trust in the late 80s and early 90s. You all do a fantastic job for the RAF and for "Team GBR". Speedy recovery to the pilot who ejected.

[H Peacock]

I'm not really sure what the implications of this are to the team. I don't expect the team will fly without a Synchro Pair, yet there is no Synchro without a Synchro Leader. I think PDA is still quite a few weeks away but I'm sure Mike Ling's injuries are going to keep him grounded for quite a while.

In the past, a former team member has rejoined the team (Anthony Parkinson) to replace a pilot with a long term illness so I guess this might be an option. Saying that, last year's Synchro Leader was Ben Murphy, but he's now the Team Leader which kinda rules him out!

I'm sure JH would love to come back and do another year at the front, and then BM could go back to flying as Red 6. That said, I'm sure they've been up all night thinking it through and will already have a solution. Perhaps getting Parky back AGAIN was even considered, but he has got just too much ginger hair for the Red 1 or 6 slot. :D

Knowing Lingy, I've no doubt that he will be back in the cockpit ASAP; and no, he didn't have any hair to spaek of before the incident.

Wishing them all the best for another impressive season. :D

[MATELO]

Gonna be a close call for Flt Lt Ling. 8 weeks away from the display season and "advised" rest on the shoulder for 6 weeks. However, in the medical world, use of the shoulder is encouraged to get movement back as soon as possible.

They also state to keep away from sports for 6 weeks, is pulling left/right/forward/back on a stick doing aerobatics and pulling 'g' classed as a sport!!!:hmm:

[bakerpictures]

I think this may be one of their toughest challenges: Pulling a team back together without the Synchro Leader who has helped plan and execute major components of the show but I'm sure their finest brains are finding the solution as we speak.

But apart from the temporary loss of a fine pilot, do we know the flying status of the other jet that landed safely? They've lost one aircraft but do they have another back at Scampton on a Minor or Primary maintenance?

Testing times for the best ..

[G-KEST]

Best wishes for a speedy and painfree recovery from one who has been there. This at the Barnstormers Weston-super-Mare airshow in 1972. It really ruined my day too though I was flying again after two days. A knackered Mark 1 bonedome, slight concussion and bruising like you have never seen down one side plus a totally demolished Stampe was the result. I did find the local hospital nurses easy on the eye though. I wish you the same.

Cheers,

Reaper 69
:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[BOAC]

While wishing Mike a speedy recovery, let's not forget Dave and indeed the rest of the team who have a huge problem in front of them this time. There have been many occasions when 'retired' team members have come back to help the team recover from illness and fatals but this combination will take some cracking.

Having seen the 'stretcher' picture, for Mike, as some general is supposed to have said, 'Pass me my red (suit) trousers':)

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Get well soon, Sir. (for your own sake)

Can you guys return back to flying duties while the BoI is sitting? I suppose you can.

But what if there is the possibility of blame, here? Surely him or is mate is going to end up with 3 points on his licence.

Is it true that only one of the synchro pair is responsible for missing the other?

I'll bet you all a quid that the manning people are already working out how many techies they can lay off in the event of a synchro-pair-less season.

And I've got 'em booked for my wedding reception! :{

[cornish-stormrider]

Ahem, so who does one see about the environmental impact statement?


As to the injured Flt Lt Ling (if he is a Flt looie, I can't be bothered to check) will someone please present him with an Arfix model and tell him to get some practice in.....

He's wanted on the rebuild:E

In all seriousness - glad you got out with a pranged shoulder, hope thats all it is, try to get the SMO to give you golf as physio - Want to see you all back in the air asap. I don't like going to airshows JUST for 558.

And someone please make sure the squippers and plumbists get very drunk

Metal and rubber - we'll buy another ( I 'ope).

Pilot - far more valuable

[Pure Pursuit]

2 F3 mates flying together...

No navs...

No ATC or GCI...

It was never going to end well! ;)

Get well soon Lingy. Never met a bloke who smiles so much! I do hope you're back in the air in the very near future doing what you do best.

[Dengue_Dude]

Well, it certainly was a headline catcher.

I presume it won't be a regular part of the show . . .

As a bit of a novelty, couldn't they fly really fast towards each other and . . . miss?




Get well soon guys, you could always go for Hawk Mk 2s, they're not doing much.

[whowhenwhy]

Last time I saw Mike was on IOT - he had a LOT more hair back then! Get well soon fella!

[champair79]

Get well soon Lingy, we need you at the airshows!

In terms of what's going to happen for the upcoming display season, well it couldn't have happened at a worse time! The display has been choreographed and these exercises in Crete and Cyprus are intended to fine-tune the display and practice all the routines (flat, rolling, full and a combination) day after day with continuity with the good weather that is present in the Med. I'm guessing Mike will be out of action for a few weeks anyway so it may set the training back somewhat.

What will probably happen is that the team fly an 8-ship with Monty doing some solo passes when it's time for synchro. Then some intensive out-of-season practices for the first few weeks to get the 2 up to speed again. The team often practice displays with a 'missing man' to cover for illness etc so this shouldn't be too hard. Luckily Mike isn't tooo badly injured but if he was, I don't think they'd bring in a replacement as the team are too far through training to get the new man up to scratch. Previous incidents have occured in October through to January which just about gives the newbie time to get up to standard especially if he's an ex team member.

Another fact often overlooked is the fact that the Reds had 13 Hawks. One is now no more! Monty's XX253 is crocked and will need some serious repair and I don't know about the status of XX227 (which had been undergoing repairs for a lightning strike which occured in Gibraltar last September). If that's still in maintenance, that only leaves 10 hawks for them. Usually one or two are in maintenance throughout the display season and if you get one or two breakdowns, then they are going to be rather short of serviceable aircraft. Remember XX325 which crashed on delivery to Cranwell a year or so back? That's another one that didn't make it. I'm thinking they may have to bring in one or two aircraft from storage at Shawbury and have them converted quickly.

Oh and they only took 10 hawks to Crete/Cyprus anyway so are now down to 8. If Monty is rearing to go again, then they'll have to ferry one or two from the UK sharpish.

Hope the team recovers and wows the crowds this year. Best of luck :ok:

P.S. Which aircraft was Lingy flying?

[ACARS]

video posted on bbc website. Not the best quality though.

BBC News - New Red Arrows crash footage emerges (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8586114.stm)

[fallmonk]

Like been sayed before just so glad the pilot is well and getting checked out ,
machines can be replaced , the soft spongy thing in the seat is wot counts .
The good will thats generated with these guys must keep them the going !

[Lusty Thrusty]

Here's hoping for a speedy recovery Lingy. Thoughts are with you, Baz, and the rest of the team. Good luck for pulling it together for the next few weeks, and the rest of the season. You can do it - Best of British (and a bit of Kiwi!)

[MostlyHarmless]

Scary video - did well to get out! The other jet looked like it bottomed out pretty low as well :uhoh: