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View Full Version : Unions join forces against Voz .....again


oicur12
21st Mar 2010, 17:57
My reply from previous posts before moderators shut it down.

Ahhhhh, freedom of speech, where are you?

“There will ALWAYS be a market excuse for low employee wages & poor conditions.”

The market has no interest in accounting for subjective human emotion such as “low” or “poor”.

Perhaps you should modify your expectation of what constitutes “low wages” and “poor conditions” in order to be more inline with what the market is willing to provide.

“There is a great deal of asymmetry……”

Really. Was it ever cast in stone that such an asymmetry should not exist? Did you think organized labor was going to hold airlines to ransom forever?

Al E. Vator
21st Mar 2010, 20:30
...hold airlines to ransom for ever! What delusional planet are you from?
You obviously enjoy making stupid but provocative statements oicur but they make you look foolish.

Dixon was obviously being "held to ransom" when he hauled in disgustingly vulgar amounts in both salary and bonuses whilst doing everything possible to savage staff wages whilst simultaneously belittling staff, and destroying the morale of a once proud airline.

Back to the land of the sane. Before the GFC airlines were desperate for pilots. Rex and Virgin were cancelling flights. The GFC is over and the shortage of pilots is far worse now. My advice to professional pilot groups is to fight tooth and nail to not only claw back what has been lost to line the pockets of the Dixon's of this world but also to regain some of the benefits that once were associated with the career of professional pilots before people with the attitudes of oicur tried to undermine it.

In simple oicur terms. Why do you think pilots were scarce before the GFC? Because nobody wanted to do it? The free-market allowed the underminers to have the T&C for all professional pilots cut to the degree that it was no longer viable being a professional pilot. However the same laws of supply and demand will now force employers to do anything to attract scarce pilots, otherwise their billion dollar aircraft investments stay grounded.

If we don't take full advantage of this situation we are mad.

Tidbinbilla
21st Mar 2010, 21:14
1. There is no "freedom of speech" on PPRuNe. Well, not as long as the owners can be held legally liable for the scrawlings of its members. Members are given quite a bit of latitude on what they can post here.

If you want to start yet another whinge fest about the "race to the bottom" of T&C's, kindly start it under its own topic - not under "Jetstar" "VB" "VOZ" or (insert airline name here). It's been done to death over the past few years, and quite frankly, nothing new has been written on the topic for quite some time. It's like listening to a scratched record!:}

We get quite a lot of feedback from members lamenting the way D&G is going. To the point where many of our very knowledgeable people no longer bother contributing to these forums any more. YOU are the ones who lose out by not gaining the benefit of what these people freely offered you in the past.

As Mods, we try to leave threads to "self moderate". Unfortunately, we increasingly have to cater to the lowest common denominator and intervene where threads drift off along the well worn path of T's & C's..........

So, if anyone has genuine NEWS to post regarding EBA negotiations between VOZ and its employees, please post it here. If you have nothing better to do than whinge about T's & C's, please take it elsewhere. Preferably Jet Blast.

TID.

AnQrKa
22nd Mar 2010, 22:45
“savage staff wages”

How much of a “savage” pay cut did Dixon force upon his pilots?

You need to relax a bit. Life aint that bad mate.

oicur12
28th Mar 2010, 23:31
“The GFC is over”

Lets wait and see. Google Marc Faber/Jim rogers/Nouriel Rubini/Gerald Celente for their views on where the global economy is heading.

“… and the shortage of pilots is far worse now.”

I know of several airline pilots o/s still waiting for a call from Jetstar/Tiger/Virgin/Vaus. They will be sad to hear of this “shortage”.

“….no longer viable being a professional pilot.”

Could you explain why $80,000 starting salary is not “viable”.

“However the same laws of supply and demand will now force employers to do anything to attract scarce pilots”

No, the forces of supply and demand will force employers to make the employment proposition more attractive to prospective employees. And yes, this will result in a moderate increase in Salary, probably. But don’t hold your breath waiting for Vaus to offer QF conditions.

Airlines will not do “anything” to attract pilots. The business can only sustain labor costs until a certain point beyond which it is no longer viable to provide the service.

Jetstar is proof of how critical labor costs are to an airline.

slice
29th Mar 2010, 01:40
starskate - I would characterise the hiring situation as 'steady'. VB and J* are interveiwing and hiring FOs. Skywest soon to be looking for crew for A320 / F100 (or are looking now). Alliance (F100 charter operator) expanding with several more aircraft. Tiger (A320) employing in dribs and and drabs I believe. QF nothing and hasn't been for a while (but only hire as SO anyway - good money but a long while out of a window seat). REX hiring and a Cadet scheme of dubious value underway.Qlink Dash8 a few recently but may pick up when crew leave for jets. Not sure about Cobham (Dash8 Surveillance Australia contract and Qlink 717 operation). V Australia get a 5th jet later this year so a few there probably.

nasa
7th Apr 2010, 03:38
Lets wait and see. Google Marc Faber/Jim rogers/Nouriel Rubini/Gerald Celente for their views on where the global economy is heading

I'm not buying into the discussion/argument, however, I was just doing my occassional read around and noticed the above.......:rolleyes:

Cactusjack
9th Apr 2010, 03:46
Strange how an organisation which preaches 'staff first' would need to go down this path ??


New Ethics Hotline

Virgin Blue Airlines Group is committed to maintaining the highest ethical standards at all times. The reputation and integrity of Virgin Blue will only be maintained if everyone in the Group, from senior management through to contractors, acts and are seen to act; in a way which is exemplary and to the highest standards.
We are committed to always acting with honesty, integrity and fairness. Ultimately, this is reflected in benefits to our people, returns to shareholders and in the willingness of the travelling public and others to continue to do business with us. Virgin Blue believes its reputation for integrity is a competitive advantage which is essential to maintain.
Even though we already have the A Fair Go (http://vine.virginblue.internal/intranet/our-company/virgin-blue/corporate/people/navigational-instruments/policies-and-procedures/supporting-you/a-fair-go-policy/VB_010781) policy which provides ways of reporting issues of concern, we understand that some team members may feel more comfortable if they can record issues of concern anonymously to an independent operator, rather than to other team members.
Accordingly today we are launching the Virgin Blue Ethics Hotline, to provide all Virgin Blue Airlines Group team members and contractors with an independent and anonymous communication channel.
While the Ethics Hotline does not replace other existing lines of communication we want to provide team members with a range of ways to provide feedback about any concerns you may have, so you can choose the channel which most suits you.
This additional – and confidential - way of reporting concerns regarding potentially unethical practices or breaches of company policy demonstrates Virgin Blue's commitment to integrity and accountability.
Team members are guaranteed anonymity when using the Virgin Blue Ethics Hotline, names will not be disclosed by the independent service provider, McGrathNicol.
Virgin Blue's Ethics Hotline number for calls from Australia is (free call) :mad: and callers in New Zealand can dial (free call) :mad:. International callers should call :mad:. Such calls will be received and dealt with as normal but will not be toll free.
Team members and contractors who use the Ethics Hotline to make a disclosure about another person in good faith, and who reasonably believe it to be true, are assured they will not be subject to:

dismissal, suspension, demotion or intimidation;
disciplinary action;
refused transfer or promotion;
refused a reference or provided with an adverse reference;
threatened with any of the above; or
otherwise adversely affected in his or her employment/contract, including employment opportunities and work security.

forgetabowdit
9th Apr 2010, 14:50
Team members and contractors who use the Ethics Hotline to make a disclosure about another person in good faith, and who reasonably believe it to be true, are assured they will not be subject to:


And we wonder why there is such a dominant dobbing culture in our little airline... I can see plenty of 'he said, she saids' coming their way...

rescue 1
10th Apr 2010, 05:57
The business can only sustain labor costs until a certain point beyond which it is no longer viable to provide the service.

Agree. Defunct airlines are scattered round the world where labor costs have spiralled out of control.

KRUSTY 34
10th Apr 2010, 06:51
And just as many have failed because inept management have bitten off more than they can chew. :suspect:

Oh sorry, beancounters don't make mistakes do they. :rolleyes:

faheel
10th Apr 2010, 08:39
How I hate that term "Team Members" sounds like a telemarketing company rather than an airline.
I wonder if someone dobbed in via their hotline will get a "fair go " or just told to go :suspect:

Cactusjack
11th Apr 2010, 05:05
faheel,

How I hate that term "Team Members" sounds like a telemarketing company rather than an airline.


You can add the following to your list that they dribble on with - 'shiny red toy's, 'must have's', 'keeping the air fair', 'guests', 'staff come first' and 'safety before schedule' !