JAA ATPL (A) Modular Course - Distance Learning

[DA42_Pilot]

Hi everyone,

I'm in Vancouver, Canada right now and I have a Candian CPL and just about to finish my IFR in the next couple of months. Also, it's worth mentioning that I have dual Canadian / EU (won't mention what country) citizenship, so I have the right to work in the European Union.

My plan is to get my ATPL course done at Oxford Aviation Academy, more specifically the Distance Learning course. I have some questions, so please scroll down and see, if you don't care to know details about the course.

Details of the course (hopefully I understood this correctly)
Here is the breakdown of the cost:

Distance Learning course: £2300 ($3500 Canadian Dollars) + £924 ($1410 CAD)exam fees.

Of course on top of that I have to add:
£150 ($231) = Aviation medical JAR
$2000 = Two flights to and from UK
£100 ($152) = Shipping of the JAA ATPL Oxford Manuals
£1080 ($1650) = Accomodations (for 2 months)
$600 = Food (estimated for 2 months)
$500 = various things... (a beer here and there, transportation to and from Heathrow to Kidlington, etc)

So how does this work?
You have 18 months to finish this course. It's broken down in two phases

Phase 1.

1. Study 1/2 your courses (not sure which). Each phase is broken down into 18 frames and each frame takes about 15 hours to complete. That means about 270 hours of self study... (minimum). This should take about 90 days if you study 3 hours / day; so let's say three months.

2. You have to go to UK to take part in their classroom training. That is 2 weeks of "review" / phase. This is a JAA requirement that you complete at least 10% of the course in an actual classroom. On top of that two weeks, you have another week to study / review, then the fourth week, you write 7 exams.

You are now done half your course and Phase 2 wil repeat in pretty much the same manner.

All in all, it should take about 8 months to complete the JAA ATPL and cost me about $10,000 Canadian (£6500) including Airfare, accomodations, food, medical, exams, etc.

If all goes well, I will start my training in July 2010 and Finishi by March 2011. So here are the questions:

1. Has anyone here attended Oxford Aviation Academy?
2. Has anyone done the JAA (A) ATPL Modular - Distance Learning?
3. How did you find OAA?
4. Is their training worth the money?
5. What do I need to do once I finish my ATPL exams? I will have to convert my Canadian IR correct? I heard that if you have an ICAO IFR you just need to do 15 hours of IFR Training in Europe. Is that true?

Thank you very much everyone... I'm looking forward to your answers.

[irishpost]

that is a very expensive method

search around a bit more
there is cheaper and just as good quality if not better

USA schools you could do the writtens but only the CPL flying
Ireland - Atlantic Flight Training very good package
CATS online only for £999 for the theory then you complete at a UK flight school
The UK Bournemouth schools are worth a look for the conversion

Yes the 15 h is for the IR conversion
and CPL is hours as required

It is this bit that costs the most so don't overspend on the distance learning ground school - you simply do not need too

[DA42_Pilot]

Hey irishpost,

Thanks for your reply. Good points too. The main expense for me though, is flying (twice) from Vancouver to UK and living there for 2 months. I don't think there is any way around it. I might save a couple of hundred dollars here and there, but I was also thinking about the school.

When I apply to airlines in Europe, I think "Oxford Aviation Academy" has a better sounding name (on the resume) than say other ones. Maybe I have the North American mentality of "Name is everything" and should just worry about getting her done.

Also, I found out that I need an MCC course. Do you know a place I can get that done cheap?

Also, what do you mean "hours as required?" Basically, the instructors will evaluate you and say "Okay, you're good to go for the flight test?"


Cheers

[kaptene]

-ATPL ground school via Distance learning with OAA is 1200 £ (new price, with books included).
-JAA class I : 300 £ (I know, very expensive comparing to the US class I:ugh:)
OAA are a the school by excellence, it's the best quality in the world I would say, but the price also...:ouch:, and also you need 2 weeks brush up before passing the sets of exams. however, some schools like CATS, with 1000£ for the ATPL D.Learning, you'll need a week for the brush up....
Everything dependes on how big is your pocket :}

[Explore]

Just a question: Is it possiable to do the JAA distance learning at OAA, and flying with Atlantic Flight Training?

[kaptene]

AS Far as I know yes, if the Ground school has been done in the same country as you will fly. If not, it is still possible but not very easy, it requires an approval from both CAA authorities for each country.

[sion22]

There are two Atlantic Flight Trainings with slightly similar names


One is in Cork, Ireland the other in Coventry, U.K.

The Coventry one is having a few problems at the moment
The Atlantic one offers the online distance learning and the flight training in Ireland

Ireland and the UK have reciprocal arrangement to take exams

[terry123pilot]

can someone clarify please wether you can do the jaa atpl groundschool in europe and for the flying part of the conversion do it in spain or elswhere in europe

[Whirlygig]

You normally have to do the ATPL groundschool in the same country as which you wish to complete the flying training and Europe is not a country.

So if you wish to do your flying training in Spain, you should complete the ATPL exams in Spain.

You can do it in other countries but you need the permission of both countries' aviation authorities and it's not straightforward.

Cheers

Whirls

[manu848]

Hi Fox,

Since UK and the USA have bounds for the issue of licenses would it be possible to do the atpl exams in UK and some of the flying over in the US? and the other way around?
One other thing, are all the atpl exams from USA school conducted in UK or can you actually take the tests there?
Doing some of the flying in usa could really save you up a bunch of money if you not afraid of planes falling apart..:}

Fly hard

[LAI]

Hi DA42

I will try and answer your questions as best I can:

1. Yes I have...

2. Yes I have...

3. From the groundschool perspective, I found the course excellent.

I have to say that at times, some of the "support" while on the distance learning phase wasn't as good as I would have hoped, but over the last 12 months or so they seem to have done a lot of work in this area.

When it comes to the two-week brush up courses, I think they are worth the total cost of the course alone. The instructors are all excellent teachers, in my opinion, and highly experienced.

4. As far as the groundschool goes, I would have no hesitation in recommending them to anyone (though of course other schools such as Bristol are also very good from what I hear). They got me through all mine with first time passes at over 90% :ok:

With regards to the flying, I am personally not doing it with Oxford, but as with all these things it is a very personal decision and I would always recommend going and visiting several schools in person before you decide on that side of things (other people's opinions are only of so much use... ;))

5. As far as I know, you need to complete a MINIMUM of 15 hours and an IR test in order to convert. Beware though that this is only the CAA minimum requirement and it may take more. As others have already commented as well, I think you need to complete the flying training in the same country as that in which you did the groundschool exams (unless you manage to get approval from both national authorities before you start).

Hope you find this helpful :)

Rich

p.s. I just noticed the date...so I'm only about a year out! I wonder how you are getting on with things now...?

[zondaracer]

Hey DA42,

There has been some good information in this thread. Let me give you some more info.

First of all, if you plan on doing your exams in the UK, your initial class 1 medical must be done at Gatwick at the nice price of £341. Now, you can actually get your initial done in another country and have it transferred to the UK CAA for a nice fee. I know a couple guys who did this. Last guy who did this is still waiting for it to be transferred over as he is on a "waiting list.".

Also, unless you get prior approval, you will need to do your flying for your initial CPL issue in the UK as mentioned before with a couple exceptions. Exception 1. Go to Ireland as they have a standing agreement with the UK
Exception 2. Go to FTE Jerez in Spain, as they are actually a UK registered FTO
Exception 3. Go to the USA (with the bargain you could get on the dollar this might be a good option. For example, a Piper Arrow dual in the UK runs around £230-320 = $380-530 US!! In Florida, you may find an arrow for $260). As was said earlier, it is a personal decision and you do what's best for you, many have gone down a different route.

There maybe other exceptions that I'm not aware about. I have been told that Greece accepts UK exam results. There is also an outfit in Spain who claims he can do a license conversion for you with exams from any JAR country but I didn't take him up on his offer so I dont have first hand knowledge.

Now, once you've already done your CPL conversion, you can add ratings. These can be done in any JAR country and then your country of license issue will add them to your license. So for example, if you get your CPL in the UK and then want to add the ME and Instrument Rating in Spain using a Spanish school, you may do this.

As far as CPL conversion hour requirements, there are no minimums. Just whenever you're ready. IR must be done in Europe and 15 hrs is the minimum, 10 hrs can be done in a sim.

Lastly, I used Bristol Groundschool and can't recommend them enough. I also stayed at bed and breakfasts while doing my exams and brushups and it saved a bit of money compared to a hotel.

Good luck. I actually enjoyed the whole process and it was a good experience apart from being away from my family and spending all my money to get it done :)

Edit: I just noticed the date too haha oh well

[kaptn]

Personally I would't recomand you to just do the CATS distance learining ATPL, then go for the CPL/ME IR in the US (JAA), that will save you a hudge money.....I went to OAA, it's true that 's a cery good school, very high quality, but look at the price...it for the ATPL studies,that does not make too much diffrenc because I think it's 2 weeks brush up (Cats is only 1 week), but for the flight training, still expensive...

[kaptn]

that's correct....IR have to be in a JAA country....but the course and I think the flying hours/Sim can be done in the US with less price...need to check that.

[Alex Whittingham]

Yes, you can do the training in the US and the test in a JAA State but beware, it's a plan that often goes badly wrong - usually because of inadequate preparation stateside. I think you'd be better off doing your IR in Spain or Greece if you're trying to avoid UK prices. It depends on the euro rate, of course.

[manu848]

Thanks for the reply,

Which cheap and good school would you advice in Greece?
I finally found out after some research that in the us, if you do atpl theory the testings can be done over us territory but are then sent to UK for validation.

Cheers

[Alex Whittingham]

The ones I know are Egnatia and Global Aviation in Greece and Aerodynamics Malaga in Spain. You'd better do your own research on these, I think they are all delivering quite good training but I'm not sure about current prices. There are some threads about them if you run a search.

[zondaracer]

I finally found out after some research that in the us, if you do atpl theory the testings can be done over us territory but are then sent to UK for validation.


The UK CAA has several testing facilities outside of the UK, one of them in Florida.

http://www.caainternational.com/site/cms/contentCategoryView.asp?category=305

You will find all of their international exam centres in that link. Note that in some of these locations, they charge 88GBP instead of 68GBP.