777 or Airbus [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

mensaboy

18th Mar 2010, 18:15

Airbus side is brutal.
''Take the Airbus , you may end up on the 380 within a year or you could be looking at the 350 before you know it.''

There is absolutely ZERO possibility you would end up on the A380 within a year. NONE< NADDA< ZERO>AINT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!! That assertion is either meant as a joke or downright insane. I won't even get into the EK flight time requirements or heavy jet requirements. It is deceitful to pretend there is a possibility for a new joiner to go onto the A380, a year after their arrival......... even taking into account how things change here each day.

STAY away from the Airbus fleet if you can. Regardless of the 'probable' arrival of the A350 in 2014 (which apparently is now in doubt according to TC, who is the big cheese when it comes to things like aircraft procurement).

Airbus sucks at EK for more reasons than I wish to explain.

ps. yeah you are nuts to come here, haha.

c46r

18th Mar 2010, 18:44

How about being grateful to have a job, you are luckier than a lot of guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mensaboy

18th Mar 2010, 18:59

Well how about my company being grateful for having experienced pilots flying their aircraft? How about a certain level of respect for our professionalism, which far exceeds each and every Managers abilities and knowledge when it comes to THEIR JOBS!!!

Being grateful for having a job?? You got to be kidding me! It is people like YOU who have destroyed this profession.

Thanks for that wonderful and insightful post, you putz.

Honestly, being grateful for having a JOB, when most of us have spent at least 20 years working towards being good pilots and good managers? You might be a simpleton, a company stooge or just someone who knows NOTHING about this job, but in any event, you might want to educate yourself after you delete that post.

Man, this world is full of people who have no excuse for being so uneducated, boggles my mind sometimes.

777boyindubai

18th Mar 2010, 20:25

Hi lchristler,

Just want to wish you good luck with your choice.

Please read and re-read the many relevant EK posts and let us (and other potential recruits) know your thoughts after you have been here a while.

I hope that you won't be disappointed.

Safe flying.

InnocentBystander

18th Mar 2010, 20:29

Let me put it this way: I'm on the Boeing right now. If I were transferred to the Airbus for some reason, I'd quit.

Simple as that.

Iver

18th Mar 2010, 21:03

What experience do you currently have? If you have Airbus time you will likely get Airbus. Boeing time will yield the 777.

If you have the choice, pick the 777 fleet if you want to fly back to the States every now and then. Airbus will put you mainly in Middle East/India, Africa and some Europe.

fatbus

19th Mar 2010, 03:47

direct hire FO 380 2011, mensa you are quick to over react, also a move underway to change roster pattens to help A330 , oh forgot you did not get that memo

Sheet House Rat

19th Mar 2010, 04:10

You will regret accepting an Airbus co-pilot position with Emirates.

The rosters and destinations are miserable. What's left of the decent layover trips are mysteriously "pre-assigned" so bidding means precious little, especially for non-management/non-training pilots. Your assigned trips are even poached because of "training requirements", so understand you are accepting the worst seat in the company now that the A310 has been parked.

When the A350's arrive they will likely migrate 777 skippers over to them as they are "proven" commanders, and you will be sitting on an ever dwindling, increasingly miserable fleet. 777 fo's will then get their upgrade, and you will wonder why you didn't listen to folks like Menso Boy as you ply the airways between Dubai and India (in the wee hours of the morning).

If you are stubborn enough to disregard the warnings you have read in other threads, and are determined to come to EK, hold out for a 777 slot. They'll call you back (especially since they've already paid your way to/from Dubai for the interview), and mysteriously one will appear as EK is desperate for bodies. The only need for 330 f/o's is to replace those Airbus fo's transferring to the right seat of the 380 (beginning cadets can easily fill these empty seats).

Don't be a pushover as this is the only time you will be able to negotiate for anything during your time at Emirates. Insist on the 777 slot, and play hard to get if it's not offered immediately. My guess is you'll be much happier if you do.

SHR

a747jb

19th Mar 2010, 04:49

I'm currently on the 330 and will say this, you would be f...ing stupid to come here on the 330 fleet. As soon as we come off the long haul (Australia, starting with MEL in August) we will have nothing left. You will live life with 8-9 days off for a very long time. As 330 only (which you will be for at least a year) you will hate life. If my schedule goes back to what it was when I was in that position, I will quit. Hold out and don't except the job if they won't change you off the bus. You will be happier unemployed. Yes, the airbus is that bad!!! Now, on a bright note, not to be mean towards the Boeing guys, but I think everyone will agree that the guys on the bus are much more laid back and relaxed, especially in the training ranks. Note: the last sentence is an opinion, everything else is fact!

FlyingOW

19th Mar 2010, 05:59

Icristler,

Congrats on the job! Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the assesments. I have an interview in about two weeks and would really appreciate your intel, since the whole recruitment process has changed somewhat.

I have P1 time on A320 and a good amount of P2 time on B767+DC10, which fleet would I be considered for?

Thanks and congrats again!

OW

Hook

19th Mar 2010, 08:18

When the A350's arrive they will likely migrate 777 skippers over to them as they are "proven" commanders,

By "proven" you mean having the ability to turn every destination that the Airbus previously went to without any problems into a potential fu**up. Damascus, Addis.........

Icristler, welcome to EK. Most of what has been said about Airbus rostering is sadly true. The pilots on that fleet make up for most of that though........as the quote above shows.

Sheet House Rat

19th Mar 2010, 09:06

Some clarification. All I intended to convey is that the company will more likely wish to transition an established (tenured) Captain over to a new airframe (the New Flagship of the Fleet mindset), and thus avoid the additional risks/costs/time required to upgrade an f.o.

For what it is worth, I don't believe there has been a transition training problem for Airbus Captains jumping over to the Boeing, so why not Boeing to Bus? Not so for the f.o. upgrade failure rate on the Airbus of late...

As to matters of personality and cockpit atmosphere, these things are intangibles that will ultimately matter little each month when you receive your roster assignments, and even less when you contemplate your seemingly terminal rank of Airbus co-pilot come each payday.

Jump on in... the water really is fine... but don't say you haven't been warned.

We eagerly await you here in Pilot Heaven....:E

SHR

donpizmeov

19th Mar 2010, 09:10

But what happens when the 380 takes all the "nice" destinations and the 350 starts to replace the classic 777 and the 330/340? With the command requirements as they are now, would you still want to be on the 777 then? This will be the case for a new joiner now when command comes round right?

To try and pick a fleet here requires a larger crystal ball than is available on pprune I am afraid.

Good news is you will be treated the same and become just as tired on both fleets.

The Don

Oblaaspop

19th Mar 2010, 10:30

Just my 'Tuppence' worth......

We have approximately 20(ish) more 777's arriving over the next couple of years with several older ones being returned, so probably a net increase of 8-10 aircraft!

In around 4 years time, we will start taking delivery of between 70-120 (if options are taken) A350's, not to mention the 50 A380's that remain to be delivered. Despite the nonsense above, the NEW Airbus WILL be crewed by CURRENT AIRBUS pilots. If this means that an A330/40 F/O has to go RHS in it for 6 months before upgrade, this is how we will fill the left hand seat, and moreover the seat will initially be filled by CURRENT AIRBUS Captains, which will obviously leave a big deficit of skippers on the Airbus 'Classic', just right for A330 F/O's to fill.

You do the maths, its not rocket science to figure out that commands will dry up on the 777, and will suddenly explode on the Bus at about the same time as you qualify for upgrade!

Yes the routes are sh1t on the Bus currently, but you must understand that things change and it will certainly be swings and roundabouts..... 6-7 years ago, the 777 guys were moaning about their routes and time to upgrade, now its the Bus' turn. Soon enough, it will be the Boeing again!

Just think about it a little more deeply than 'what are the rosters like'.... Things change buddy, you need to look further ahead!

Good luck with your decision.

pool

19th Mar 2010, 10:51

Just think about it a little more deeply than 'what are the rosters like'.... Things change buddy, you need to look further ahead!

Your deep thinking is more of a wishful one ... 350ies in 4 years, almost satyrical.

But back to the thread. Whatever equipment is irrelevant. If you really need to come, take whatever comes up, you'll hate it both ways very soon. If the company has to reshuffle pilots in the future, they will do it their way and it will make no difference if you're A or B qualified, they'll simply take the cheaper option at that time. Sorry Airbus lovers, but anyone can handle the stick within minutes, it's not rocket science.

Payscale

19th Mar 2010, 11:00

As you see, some people are just born to complain. Dont worry. Congratulations with the job. I am on the airbus for 10 years. Thinks change around here.

The people whining and moaning cant manage their expectations very well. Dont expect favors or gifts from EK. Its a job. Do it safe and well. Stay out of trouble. If you dont like it after a while. , use it as a stepping stone..

Oblaaspop

19th Mar 2010, 11:17

Why's that Pool?

Do you know something Airbus or EK don't? If you are aware of a major technical reason that the A350 won't or cant fly in 2013, then I suggest you impart your wisdom forthwith to the manufacturer and the airline in order that they amend their plans accordingly........

Who knows (not you I hasten to add), maybe it will be delayed a little, but one thing's for certain, there WILL be more AIRBUSES arriving over the next few years than Boeings.....Even if they are just the 50 A380's......No crystal ball, no wishful thinking (I really don't give a stuff what I fly, the money's the same!), and no bullsh1t............... Just FACT! Something that appears to be a bit thin on the ground on occasions here at Pprune:ugh:

Sheet House Rat

19th Mar 2010, 11:33

For the benefit of the original poster, let's return to the original question, should I ask for a Boeing class????

Shame on you guys implying a guy should take a job, particularly this job, with hopes for how it is going to get better in the future when some event or other takes place.

Instead, look at the track record for broken promises/contracts, and double-standards of behavior, and any new joiner had best sign on for the job he wants for the long-term, not the one he thinks will come around because of fair play and the changing winds of fortune....

Yeah things will change around here... but for the better??? :=

Tell 'em it's Boeing or I'm not going.

SHR

sheikmyarse

19th Mar 2010, 12:09

Airbus or Boeing? You will be screwed anyway mate... Stay away from EK , don't bite the bait! You will regret it big time!

McGreaser

19th Mar 2010, 15:29

Easy Mensa......people have different circumstances and coming to Ek for some is a blessing ! (very hard for lot of whingers in EK to believe !) The fact that some of us complain whilst we are here should not give us grounds to chid somebody who wants to make their way here due to their circumstances. The nuts and bolts of it is there are actually people out there who need jobs and EK is hiring, go figure.

......meanwhile back at the ranch, for now B777 has good routes but at the end of the day it's just a job, hotel bed, toilet, same piece of concrete you land on !:cool:

Welcome on board whether B777 or Airbus.......we are all soldiers of the same struggle:ok:

Dune

19th Mar 2010, 16:19

For what it might be worth, I am a long time (which in EK is 10 years +) EK Captain. I would reiterate what has been said above; should EK give you any sort of "choice" or should you be able to "negotiate" a deal, I would highly suggest the choice would be the 777.

Irrespective, in any case it is obvious you are either oblivious to what is happening in this company or are so desperate to have a job you are coming to EK/Dubai in spite of the well documented issues on this site. I do not walk in your shoes so I would never allow myself to be one to judge your decision. If you are so desperate you feel you need this job/this place; I commend you on your decision.

What I can say is......myself and my wife were in HQ the other day and saw 4 obvious new-hires going through "the process" (nice new suits, bad haircuts, cheesy flight bags, big watches, optimistic yet somewhat nervous banter). We both looked at each other, shook our heads, and just smiled (and believe me, it was not the "aren't these guys clever coming to Emirates" kind of smile). You guys were warned, you made your beds, you knew beforehand..............

While I do listen and try to understand the complaints expressed by the majority of the F/O's I have flown with over the past 5 years,.......I have no empathy for ANYONE who has come to this company since 2005 and has any bitches/complains about anything this outfit has done since they arrived. Every single issue currently occurring within EK was well discussed/well documented over the past 4 years. Those of you complaining now are fools.

My time here is in "countdown" mode. We have used this place to our advantage and we experienced the best of times at EK. I cannot express strongly enough how we cannot wait (literally counting the weeks) until we can leave with the limited "extras" EK offer (staff travel) and leave this cesspool.

All the best and welcome to Emirates!

Dune

EK380

19th Mar 2010, 21:54

You want to look where the expansion will be 4 to 6 years from now, not what the rosters are like NOW!

I've seen the cycle several times... Joining on a fleet which has "better" rosters now will be "bad" rosters in 4 to 6 years. Would stay away from the B, except if you only plan on staying your 3 years.

And... if you think you're an astronaut, go B, you'll feel at home!

Wizofoz

20th Mar 2010, 04:29

Rumours are that Boeing is close to announcing the B777-300ERX, which will have 200LR range but carry the same or more than the 300ER. This is largely at EKs request and if it happens, we will no doubt place a big order.

donpizmeov

20th Mar 2010, 07:06

I would hang out for the B777-300ERXXX it has the range on the 200LR, can carry the load of the 300, but has an extra special crew rest facility. Defo gonna cause a happy ending to all Boeing orders from now on. Rumour has it that EK will fit said crew rest in the rear!!!! Now that will bring a tear to the eye.

You read it in PPRUNE first.

The Don.

What is it about MAC owners and boeing pilots?

halas

20th Mar 2010, 07:42

Dunno. What?

halas
:}

pool

20th Mar 2010, 07:49

Dear Oblaaspop

Some poor chap asks what fleet to join. You propose fleet of aircraft that exists on shiny folders and that's pretty much it. You want facts, show me a prototype of a crosssection or a wing -> zilch. Therefore advising him to join that fleet is .... (chose your own word as you seem to be somewhat touchy).

The Wiz reflected above what I have also heard and that T7 flies nicely and has proven its worth. That's for facts, isn't it? It does 351t now and the tires and engine performance allow 374t (as the 345) this afternoon, just a matter of a few dirhams. Between a flying 777ERX and a drawing of a 350X there is an universe.

Now to guesswork:
This new B has the performance to push the 350X to a very much more distant first flight, as it will now have to match something already on the pitch. I guess this is not an easy task. My take is that a 777ERX will dominate the 350 to 450 pax ULR pitch for quite some time, taking a lot of intended orders away from the 350X initially,even from EK. At a later stage it might well replace the T7, but it will most probably not be in your 4 years.

mensaboy

20th Mar 2010, 13:54

Take Boeing if you have the option or can force the issue and forget about trying to predict things 4 or 5 years down the road.

Historically Airbus has not delivered on time (Boeing too I might add) but the big difference is that Airbus often doesn't live up to it's claims regarding aircraft performance. Take the A345 as a prime example, and in part consider the deferred A380 aircraft too.

Emirates is very good at negotiating with Airbus and Boeing because they place large orders for aircraft and they fly a large number from each manufacturer. EK bargains from a position of power but in order to maintain that advantage they must maintain the relative numbers of each aircraft type.

Emirates is also very good at determining which type is best suited for its operations and in my time here, Boeing has outperformed Airbus by a wide margin. I suspect this trend will continue although that is pure conjecture.

Emirates # 1 rule for its operation, is to make as much money as possible and since Boeing is clearly more economical, this leads me to believe that Boeing will continue to be the work-horse of this airline. If this remains true, then upgrades, lifestyle, route structure, and destinations on the Boeing will continue to be more desirable than on the Airbus fleet.

One other factor is that there are 4 types of Airbus and only one type presently allows for upgrade. This causes complications and requires proper planning and a strict adherence to seniority, in order NOT to disadvantage pilots who through no fault of their own, find themselves on a particular Airbus type. It costs the company money to transfer pilots back and forth on types, even taking into account CCQ's, so inevitably the company chooses the most cost-effective upgrade policies, which often has little to do with seniority.

Consider History when making your decision. Yes, things have gone in cycles but for certain, Boeing pilots have had 'on average', much better skeds and lifestyles as compared to Airbus pilots.

Consider what has occured, what is occuring (not the Emirates PR machine in action), and not the predictable defence of any particular fleet by its respective pilots and you should agree that Boeing continues to be a better option at EK.

ps. I enjoy Airbus, love flying the damn things but gotta be realistic.
pps. In the past.... which fleet choice was rarely a concern as this job was good for all pilots here.

Oblaaspop

20th Mar 2010, 15:23

Pool, I think you're missing my point?

The company has placed FIRM orders for 70 A350's plus options on 50 more for delivery from 2014. The 777ERX 'may' exist in someones mind but will be many years away from being delivered (look at timeline of B748 production), and even if EK want some tomorrow... Boeing doesn't have any spare production slots for a very long way into the future. These my friend are whats known as FACTS.

Your position is based on nothing more than a 'hunch' or a 'feeling' or the age old Boeing is better than Airbus diatribe, unless of course YOU can come up with some HARD evidence to back up YOUR claims.... I don't know, maybe a drawing of a wing box cross-section broken in half perhaps...(look on the Boeing 787 website, you may find one there):E

Incidentally, the A350 is not and has never been aimed at competing with the B777, it is a SUB 300 seat aircraft to replace the A330/A340 and to compete directly with the B787 (which incidentally is gonna be over 2 years late)!

BTW I see you have 'conveniently' forgotten to acknowledge the small matter of the 50 more A380's left to be delivered.... Selective reading no doubt, a bit like my Nan's selective hearing I guess?

Get YOUR facts straight.

pool

21st Mar 2010, 08:25

Yeah, I might get you wrong, so be it, dear Oblaaspop.

The way I see it is that the 777ERX is almost the same aircraft that actually takes off daily, only recertificated to higher weights, maybe some structural alightenings.

Another way we experienced "firm" order treatment from EK, is that when another aircraft outperforms the ordered one on the field, EK is fast to cancel orders (346).

Make your own assessment, but I concur with Mensa, for quite some time the daily displayed performance talks Boeing and if we want to give advice to newbees (apart from better staying away from EK), we might give the adequate one.

Take a chill pill

fatbus

21st Mar 2010, 09:46

777 erx is a ways off, they are working on a new winglet just to mention one thing. EIS 350 is 2013 and EK planned on 2014 allowing Airbus to screw up a bit . Looks to me EK is putting pressure on boeing before they confirm the 50 options of the 350.

EK looks like its going to be 2/3 Airbus and 1/3 Boeing, as mentioned, you cant plan on anything, boeing good today bad tomorow.

Sheet House Rat

22nd Mar 2010, 23:16

Lchristler..

Now that you've heard the good, bad, and ugly, maybe the best advice is this, DON"T COME HERE until you get a chance to see what the puppet masters have in store for the pilot group.

Specifically, wait and see what happens to salary/profit share/flight pay during the yearly compensation review before you commit to a job here.

If you have to come NOW, leave your family behind, see what happens to our compensation package, and if you don't like it, bail before your PPC when your bond becomes binding.

By no means sell cars, home(s), and commit to this job until you put your boots on the ground and give it a good sniff test. Only then should you consider a more definite type of move.

Ultimately, it's not about which fleet you are on (though Boeing seems to be better at this time), it's about whether you can tolerate being treated like a second/third class citizen on a regular basis.

If you enjoy feeling marginalized, dismissed, and expendable, this place is for you. This is not an airline job in the sense a proper airline pilot understands the profession, it's a whole different environment.

As I said before, jump in, the water is fine... just don't complain you weren't warned.

SHR

mensaboy

23rd Mar 2010, 13:19

It is so obvious that the Boeing fleet IS much better off and WILL be much better off for the foreseeable future, but that should be the LEAST of your worries. EK is not a good choice irrespective of fleets, but the Boeing vs Airbus question respectively equates to Bad vs Appalling.

If you could see my April Airbus sked, you would definitely agree that it couldn't get any worse.

In a nutshell.
-a few Reserve Days allocated at the whim of Rostering
-over 135 Duty hours (doesn't take into account the plus 1 hour before duty time when we are already at work, nor does it include the post chocks-on 1 hour at work) So add another 20 hours to that INSANE roster
-close to max flight hours with only ONE layover, which is less than 23 hours
-3 Variation Flights (approved extensions to the normal maximum flight time limitations),
- Cat B* or Cat C airports
-NO european, OZ, USA, or Canada flights whatsoever.
-7 DAYS OFF IN TOTAL ! Several rest days yes.

If anyone chooses to come to EK, they are either mis-informed, dillusional or so desparate that although they ''MIGHT'' understand the consequences they have accepted the life-altering and life-reducing conditions here.

Either way, the vast majority of new-joiner pilots, will regret their decision to take a chance at EK, more than any past decision in their life.

jackbauer

23rd Mar 2010, 14:41

For F**K sake Mensa are any of your posts less than 5 chapters long? The FCOM's pale when compared to your repeditive verbage.

mensaboy

23rd Mar 2010, 16:11

Dear Jake Bauer (aka OJGuilty),

If you don't like my posts then don't read them!

(Edited to reduce verbiage)

fatbus

24th Mar 2010, 00:25

Jack do as I do , just skip over it.

Dune

24th Mar 2010, 14:33

mensaboy:

The late-arrival EK Kool-Aid drinkers hate to look in the mirror. They would prefer you (and others on this site) not reiterate and/or reinforce how uninformed they were in their decisions to come to Emirates.

This, combined with those who are floundering in their careers and looking for the "Rosetta Stone" that will lead them to the "aviation promise land", leads to the animosity surrounding any post you/others submit that reveal the truth about Emirates.

Anybody with half a brain would think a day spent looking at the past 6 years of posts on this site would have been enough to educate them on the perils of their endeavors in coming to Emirates. Unfortunately for many it forces them to face their personal choices/realities. That reality is painful for many of them to swallow.

I would like to think for every uninformed pilot who has come to EK there are at least twice as many who have read all that is available on this site (inc. your posts) and have made the wise decision to stay where they are at and make the best of their aviation careers in their home countries (unless they are unable and desperate due to being unemployed). I am a firm believer they will experience in the end a significant benefit in terms of all around "life" benefits compared to the "package" offered by EK (akin to the Tortoise and the Hair analogy in their careers). I wish I had been in such a position when I was forced to come to EK.

Some have been lucky (myself included) coming during the good times but those times are LONG past at EK. I have always been agnostic on this company and tell it like I perceive it to be. The recent desperate attempts within the company to coerce it's pilots to forward names of "friends" who might be willing to become future slaves speaks volumes of the desperation in the management department. They know they are in a corner and are desperate to save their hides/jobs........Note to Management: don't clutter my email in-box with your pathetic whines.

Anyway, keep up the good work. I hope to address this "MM" and his rantings at some point in time but I do have a full life/existence outside EK in spite of their attempts to limit it otherwise.

I would suggest all of you in the company do the same:

-no working on days off (personally have not done so in 7 years irrespective of the pleas of "we have no one else able to do the flight" and offers of overtime pay/etc......... my response has ALWAYS been:....."that is a crewing/manpower management issue; not my issue. Sort out your own house". I would suggest it would be in all our favors if you each did the same.

-no Captains discretion unless you are 100% CERTAIN there are ZERO chances anything that could go wrong that might jeopardize your decision will be backed 100% by the company (ie. that will NEVER happen but insist upon it 1st IN WRITING before declining afterwords). If you do so, you are 100% covered. Every time I have been put into the Capt discretion predicament I have insisted upon the above in writing, not received it in turn, thereafter declined to accept the legal indemnity of going into discretion, and NEVER once been questioned by the company afterwords for refusing to do so). Just a FYI.

In short, treat this job exactly for what it has become. It is a short term contract where you owe them NOTHING other than the limits of the terms of the contract.

I give no more/I expect no less. I land, sign the book in, go home, shower the stench of EK off my body and am happy man. End of story.

mensaboy

24th Mar 2010, 15:07

I was feeling a trifle bad, having offended some of my colleagues....... even the likes of JB and TU and Fatbus, because agreeably, they do have a point that I am a tad verbose. I will attempt to change that characteristic in my future posts.

Odd though, that the few who detest my posts, never offer up a counter-argument; just that my viewpoints shouldn't be considered because they dislike the verbiage.

ps. a Jack Bauer quote.... ''your repeditive verbage'', which is extremely funny, except for the fact it demonstrates that his thought processes are in-line with his intelligence/education.

bilibili

17th Apr 2010, 04:33

I wonder who these belong to..
Boeing secures a new order for 12 777s from an unidentified customer (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340738/boeing-secures-a-new-order-for-12-777s-from-an-unidentified.html)

shneidertrophy

17th Apr 2010, 07:04

What always surprises me is how quickly any EK thread turns into either a pissing contest or a bunch of little overly spoiled boys whining about their toys.

To the new joiner....consider yourself lucky and take the job. Congratulations. Airbus or Boeing...As if it matters!
This is the Sandpit mate...rules change at the blink of an eye so it is impossible to predict the future.

And always remember: Things could be worse. EY and QR for example!:ugh:

ekwhistleblower

17th Apr 2010, 08:02

This 330/777 business has always been a bit cyclical. The best fleet to be on was the 330 in the early naughties, great layovers not working too hard and the biggest fleet. It expanded with 340s and gave a nice mix of ULH and M/LH initially. When there was a single daily to a destination it typically opened with the 330. As a frequency was added, the 777 took the nice day flight and the 330 the night return. Then the 777 fleet got updated, went mad and started taking over all of the European destinations.

Joining now most people don't actually care which fleet they are on for a year or so then the reality sets in. So looking forward the 380 will start taking over at LHR for sure and a lot of the cushy 777 routes to Europe. The 350 is not that far away and they will not be throwing a new aircraft onto crappy night routes to India.

Moral of the story, don't make a decision on what is happening now but on where you want to be in 5 years time. But....if you are basing a decision to join on the aircraft fleet route network, you will be disappointed sometime in the future so make sure Dubai/EK lifestyle is for you rather than one particular fleet. Hope it helps.

lcristler

17th Apr 2010, 16:10

We have finally made our minds up and yes we are taking the plunge and joining EK this summer . Its a 5 year plan and I'm ready for it. I have been assigned the airbus and youre right it doesnt matter at this point what I fly. Everyone I have talked to has positive and negative views on each a/c, company and Dubai. We are familiar with the lifestyle and by now have read pages of PPrune unhappy pilots at EK , but on the flip side have talked to many content pilots (including their families) currently flying either the boeing or airbus. Im leaving my job here in the US after 7 years of bull**** and no progression, little pay and a reserve schedule and thankfully wont be here for the potential merger with another US carrier for the second time. I know what we are getting into and im sure I will have a new set of frustrations, What airline doesnt at this point in time? Having a Contract/Union.. I have been screwed regardless.
So with that being said ..Thanks for all of your advice and comments since I first posted.

Iver

18th Apr 2010, 02:30

lcristler,

Good for you. At least you have done your homework and you know what to expect. It's true that no airline is perfect and pilots spend an inordinate amount of time b!tching. The Airbus fleet will offer both the A380 and the A350 in the future and routes will likely improve over time relative to the expanding 777 route system. Good luck and enjoy the ride!

motley flight crue

18th Apr 2010, 04:28

Thats right don't listen to any of us bitching about EK. Join, it's fantastic and only getting better. BS. The ones loving EK are usually the ones that are counting their lucky stars they even got into EK. EK standard is very average for alot of the guys.

Instant Hooligan

18th Apr 2010, 06:07

Good luck with your decision I sincerely hope you don't come to regret it like many here who thought the grass couldn't be any worse. Let us know in 2 years.

BigGeordie

18th Apr 2010, 08:11

Icristler, I'm curious about the first line of your post which says, "We have finally made our minds up and yes we are taking the plunge and joining EK this summer. Its a 5 year plan and I'm ready for it." (My emphasis)

I presume the "we" includes your wife- is she ready for the 5 year plan or is it just you? It sounds trivial but trust me this stuff really matters. I hope your wife came with you for the interview and has some idea what she is committing to for the next five years. How happy the family is depends a lot on personal circumstances and what kind of mood the accommodation department are in when you arrive, but it also has a huge impact on how happy you are.

donpizmeov

18th Apr 2010, 08:31

Interested about the 5 year plan. I wonder if the carrot of a command just a few years after your 5 year date, and only another two yeas to 100% of B fund will make that a sticky conversation closer to the time.

Have you got any kids? Only asking as very little money will be saved in those years if you do. Once you come here, pay to set up etc, it can be expensive to leave. And thats not including the school fees.

Good luck to you.

Confusious says "Inexperienced Airbus pilot will look in shock and say "what the F@ck is it doing now?"; Experienced Airbus pilot will lower newspaper and have a look and say "Is it doing that again?"".

Saltaire

18th Apr 2010, 10:11

To make it really worth your sacrifice and effort, 10 years is a more realistic plan to be fair. Upgrade will take at least 6-7 years and a few years to build enough hours in the left seat to have reasonable options to leave. It's up to you to make the best of it and despite all the negative rants, there are many good things about living in Dubai, having said that, the arriving in the summer will be shocking. Good luck

saywhat

18th Apr 2010, 11:59

"Inexperienced Airbus pilot will look in shock and say "what the F@ck is it doing now?"; Experienced Airbus pilot will lower newspaper and have a look and say "Is it doing that again?"".

Training pilot will look over his glasses and say "yes, it does this from time to time."

White Knight

18th Apr 2010, 12:41

Saywhat - I guess you missed the rhetorical part of "is it doing this again?":ok:

lcristler

18th Apr 2010, 17:06

BigGeorgie-Yes its my wife and our two young children. My wife is from UK , she was actually a pilot when we met in US. We live in Phoenix, Arizona where the temps are around 110-115 degrees in the summer time so the heat wont be a total shock when we arrive! We did check out Dubai when I had the interview for a week. I have heard the happy wife happy life phrase alot and am well aware we all have to be onboard with the decision and enjoy our lives in Dubai. Hope that is the case for the duration.

GoreTex

18th Apr 2010, 20:52

dude, the dry heat in arizona is nothing compared to dubai, lets see if your wife will be happy here.
did they tell you during the interview the divorce rate here is way below average and the upgrade takes 3 years?

the recruiters should burn in hell, they lie so much I wonder how they can look the recruits in the eyes when they fly with them one day, don't know why they even do it.

Iver

18th Apr 2010, 21:50

Goretex and others,

How about you let people make their own decisions? While everyone appreciates opinions about EK and your perspectives, the negativity is getting to be too much - things are getting personal. Let people make their own decisions based on the information they have. He did his homework. He's read all of the negativity on this forum. He's talked to current pilots - both happy and unhappy campers. Perhaps you haven't seen how bad the airline business is in the US - it's as broken as anywhere else. No airline is even close to perfect.

Nobody knows what others go through in their own lives - you don't know their personal circumstances. You need to just let people make their own decisions and go with it... Gortex, if you are so unhappy, perhaps you should consider leaving as soon as possible - life is too short to be mad all of the time. Who wants that constant stress?

Sure, this is Pprune and I expect people to be super-negative about everything and very judgemental. Just let people be adults and make their own decisions after they get the information they need... Maybe you'll be right and he'll hate EK and Dubai - or maybe he won't.

dustyprops

19th Apr 2010, 04:33

Wow, I can't believe people can still be fooled into coming down here. The BS machine that is recruitment still manages to net people even with the info around. I'd love to know what was said re. command time, accom, profit share pay rise etc....

BigGeordie

19th Apr 2010, 07:43

At least Icristler seems to have done a bit more research than some people who just put their rose tinted glasses on for the interview and believe whatever they are told- whilst ignoring everything they read here.

I would caution that what you see in one week during the interview isn't the "real" Dubai- recruitment are very careful to give you the sanitised version. I would suggest that anybody making such a life changing decision takes at least a week's holiday as well as the time spent during the interview to get a really good feel for the place. Have a look at the prices in the supermarkets and other shops and compare it to an F/Os salary. Then remember that your pay rises may be minimal for the next 7 or 8 or whatever years until you upgrade but infaltion hasn't been minimal here for the last decade or so.

It isn't for everybody but some people (a rapidly shrinking number) really do love it here.

Oh, and if you think the heat here is going to be just like Arizona, you may be in for a bit of a surprise.:E

Good luck, let us know how you get on once you arrive.

stylo4444

19th Apr 2010, 13:21

The heat is the same as it is in Arizona...

it's the humidity that makes a difference, and this is where one may notice a difference.

Congrats on your new job with EK, do share your experiences after some 6 months to a year. Hopefully you enjoy your job and good luck!

SplashDown

19th Feb 2011, 11:21

Guys & Gals.

Sorry to drag up an old thread but read the following in Flight International this week and wanted to gauge the current feelings regarding the Airbus/Boeing fleets? My motive, I'm just doing the homework on EK......

Link to article: Emirates looking at skipping A350-900 for -1000 (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/02/15/353202/emirates-looking-at-skipping-a350-900-for-1000.html)

One important bit I think is this:
If its -900s are delayed beyond 2015 or it elects to wait for the -1000, Emirates can avail of the "safety net" of 30 additional 777-300ERs ordered last year. The airline's original thinking was for the A350-900s to replace its 777-200s, A330-200s and A340-300s, but it has the flexibility to retain these aircraft for longer.

All the best
Splashdown