Eva and China Airline

[tzuchen2003]

does anyone have any info on Eva and China Airlines ? rumors have it that they are recruiting soon, or they might have already been recruting ?
any info is appreciated !

[armchairpilot94116]

A newsclip on TV in Taiwan mentioned EVA and China Airlines and Far Eastern Airways (newly restarted) are hiring hundreds of stewardesses between them. Could mean something.

[armchairpilot94116]

Some news.

China Airlines, EVA Air to hire over 100 pilots this year - The China Post (http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan-business/2010/03/25/249729/China-Airlines.htm)

[cosmiccomet]

"International experience Pilots" for NT$ 100,000= U$D 3,250:}:}:}

[Fly4Fun]

No comments!

[blackbird71]

:ugh::ugh: show me the moneeeeeeeeeeeey!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh:
no big surprise why people are leaving then.

[Fubaliera]

Have they actually started the interviews again, anybody on the forum apply yet with any details. I know about the low pay but I own a house In Taiwan. Thanks in advance

[WhatThe?]

Ok, money sucks, but what about 1.Housing 2.Education and 3.Medical?
Working conditions and what type of life is available for an expat?

I see Cx is destroying these perks for the "cadet's" and I have determined it to be easier to be poor at home with my friends and family than move to HK and be poor and miserable.

Any input would be welcome.

[cosmiccomet]

Housing allowances= NT$ 24,000/ U$D 740
No school allowances/International Schools not less than U$D 1,000 per month...
Medical by the state and if something happen to one of your family memembers before the sixth month of residency you would have to pay by yourself.

Not interviews yet...

By the way, CAL is gonna charge for the type ratings...
U$D 18,000 or more...

So by ready with your checks before starting any thinking about CAL...

[Stu Gats]

surely it must be a training bond you "pay" for to the get the type rating though... a 3 year bond or something like that? not just some big $$$ right out of your pocket.

and that U$D 3,250 quoted... is that before tax? thats pretty low...

[cosmiccomet]

Nop, it is not a training bond. CAL requires to deposit that amount of money in a bank account in Taiwan which is going to be frozen for three years after check out in the line.
More over, if you resigned before the end of the pledge you would have an additional penalty of two full salaries.

So, you have to show real money not the willing of paying if you resign before the end of the third year.

More information, PERDIEM U$D48 per day.:{:{:{
If you fly to the west you can get free breakfast but if you fly to the east you don't get it.

[dabssa]

fo: with per diems, flying 90h per month, about 190,000nt, you also get 13th month+tax return(depends on your family circumstances). Last year I got 160,000nt tax return so all in all with good flying 90h per month or so clear 75000-80000usd per year. Taxes in your home country are your problem.... This is a commuting job, I would say less then 5% expats actually choose to live in TW. In that case you get some housing which is just ok. Not great but not that bad either.


As long as your hours are up around 80+ every month than its decent.

[Fubaliera]

The 18,000 deposit was in 2007 when the salary was hight and ther were lost of other jobs pre 2008 crisis. They havent announced yet whats it gonna be this time around

[cosmiccomet]

I would like to know how many months during 2008 and 2009 did you get more than 75 hrs flying as FO:confused::confused::confused:
Next month are you gonna get more than 75???

Maybe you are working for a different company.:cool:

[bowing]

whats the terms of the commuting contract via roster etc?days off etc

cheers many thanks

[dabssa]

Don't compare last 2 years, they were tough, not just in Asia but everywhere. Still managed to pocket a little over 70,000usd(13th month and tax return) in 2009. This year will be at least 15-20% better. Last 7 months I have not blocked less then 85h. A lot of us were over 100h for a few months in a row but that includes a few dh sectors. And guess what, it is not letting up. Average block hours for April seems to be 95h, subject to change ofcourse. Don't know where you work or what fleet (don't really care), these are just my numbers....

[cosmiccomet]

At this moment we are less tha 31 FO/RP in the B744.
And for FO, the roster for 2008/2009 have been always below 75 hrs per month.

RPs is always much higher, so you would be RP I guess.

Another thing you have to take into consideration is the expatriate contract pay is calculated base in FLIGHT HOUR (TO to Landing), so if your block time is 78 hrs it is usally less than 70 flight and no overtime.

The 13th salary, is not a full salary, it is only the basic wage.
For 2008, the 13th salary was U$D 3,900 but for 2009 it was U$D 3,600.

Up to November 2009, most of the expatriates contracts were not renewed after expiring.

After November, CAL is renewing but in local terms and for one/two/three years.

My terms and conditions were at the moment of hiring,
-Ground School
U$D 2,940 (-20% tax) + hotel accomodation

-Route Training
U$D 4,304 after passing the sim check (-20% tax)
+hotel accomodation

-On the line
U$D 4,335 (-20 tax) from the next day after passing the Route training
Market allowances U$D 1,000 (not taxable)
Housing allowances: NT$ 37,000 (-20% tax)

After January 2009 for FO/RP the Market allowances were cut to U$D 500 and the Housing allowances were cut to NT$ 30,000.

For getting the tax refund, expatriate pilots have to be more the 183 days in Taipei per year.
As we were flying less for 2008/2009, we were getting those days, so the tax refund is around 10% of what you had paid.
Depends also in how many dependants do you have.

The numbers for an expatriate FO flying the basic 75 hrs per month are:
-Basic Salary (U$D4335-20%)= U$D3.468
-Market Allowances (U$D500)= U$D500
-Perdiem (12 days per month)=U$D576
-Housing allowances after tax=NT$24,600/U$D 773

Total pay check=U$D5,317

If you get the refund, mine is for 2009 NT$200,000/U$D6,289/U$D524 per month.

Adding the bonus (U$D 3600) makes an average pocket money per month of=U$D 6,141

There are few guys who are based in Vancouver/LAX/Frankfurt.
CAL calls them ELO=Extended Lay Over.
They start and end their duty in those bases.
So the company doesn't pay housing allowances but CAL provides hotel accomodation in TAIPEI (NOVOTEL at the Taoyuan Airport).

Being ELO doesn't mean that those guys are flying always to those destinations.
It means that the first day of their working month is started from their bases flying to TPE (operating or dead head).
The ELO guys usually don't get the refund because it is very hard for them to have 183 days at Taipei.

Those are the numbers for the expatriates in CAL in the 744 fleet.

[flynhigh]

cosmiccomet Great post...Thank you.
I was told EVA pay's even less than CAL....WOW flying widebody jet around the world for less than what I make in the right seat of A320.. I guess it would be a great place to build some jet time and leave....as long as you don't have any family to feed or see.

[flyinryan76]

That is great information posted above from some of you guys. Is there any other information on what kind of pilots they are looking for hours/experience wise? Turbine time required, previous type ratings, etc? Are guys getting hired with more or less than what I listed above? When do they plan on conducting these interviews and when does the window close? I know the pay is not the best but I am trying very hard to get to Taiwan for personal reasons. If anyone has additional information or is able to provide any assistance it would be greatly appreciated!

[wayyyoutthere]

Some more advice on CAL/EVA


ELO... outstation bases... Its not avail to all. Depends if there is a slot available and only generally on the 744 fleet only. Typically you will get 8-10 consecutive days off a month, and then the rest of the month operate from Taiwan. If you take the 10 days/month I believe also you no longer get vacation days. (I didn't do ELO .. but I think your 2 vac days/mo are added to your 8 days off... not sure about it...if wrong please correct me) Housing allowance is removed, which is about 800 usd so don't forget to subtract that from your take home. You won't get the favourable resident tax treatment, even if on ELO you will pay 20% to Taiwan I believe. If you stay in Taiwan, it is only reduced to about 13-17%. Anyway, its a sliding scale so the less you make the less you pay. typical rent Taipei is about 1000-1500 usd excluding expenses. So, if you take the cash, and no word if its available anymore, you will be out of pocket most likely. If you take co accom, you will stay in a hotel at the Airport with nothing around and about 1 hour drive away from Taipei. AND dont forget to pay tax in your home country whatever that rate will be. So.... maybe at the end of the day you will walk home with 4k in your pocket if your lucky, and be jet lagged and worked to the bone. Those that say takehome 70-80k/yr? Hmm... i don't know aboutthat. I was on the highest foreigner widebody rate I thought and I didn't take home that much. Maybe with OT and before taxes, and def not on ELO.

If they offer you a new Type rating, you will be stuck with a bond that they will deduct from your paycheck. Another 500-1000/month gone. And don't think you will be able to skip out. Some have tried and they have taken those people to court in their own countries and made them pay the bond.

Do not give any credit to the pension quoted in the offering, it is totally bogus. You have to reach 55 years old to get it. If you don't you get nothing. What they do is after your initial contract they will renew annually or something like that and before its your turn to collect, they will just not renew you. This has happened to so many guys now its not funny. One was in court suing (worked for many years, and was very close to 55) recently and was denied at the supreme court level. In any western country you have Labor standards/fairness Laws, that protect everyone equally. Not so in Taiwan. The supreme court easily stated that because the Foreigner was not a National, he is not entitled to the labor fairness laws. So, Apparently discrimination is alive and well in Taiwan. You are not entitled to severance either.

They lie and tell you what you want to hear to make you think there is promise and long term potential so they can screw you and keep the salary low, and then in the end just before you are going to gain something from them, you get notice so they can save on the pension and rotate a new idiot in. They say there is chance to upgrade, but its very scetchy and there out of hundreds that I have seen come and go, only about half a dozen have actually done it. You will get fought all the way... the check pilots will fail you on something small just to make the Nationals look better and give the official reason why the 2500 hour wonder will get it before you. You will get an SB on something where the national won't and it will be the reason you dont get your chance. They think they can get away with it endlessly, but don't think about the reprocussions of the guys that they screw. They don't think that those guys can reach the others that they will hire. They think that there is an endless line of foreigners that are begging for the job, and that they can get away with it forever. This is why I am writing this. Pilots should show some solidarity and gumption, and do not work for these outfits, especially since they don't pay. Show CAL/EVA that they have to compete properly for our talents. Don't be fooled, there are not the labor protection laws in Taiwan that exist in other countries. You will not get severance or anything.

If your dead set on Asia, go to Korean, where at least they are up front and TRUTHFULL about their policies and pay you more.

Big WARNING. STAY AWAY.

[Hamtarro]

Cal is looking for type rated experienced pilots. They are and have hired some more rocket scientist from the coutryside of Taiwan and at this very moment they are pointing out the difference between a scooter and an airplane. The expats they are looking for need a type rating with experience as I heard. Yes I know this is always a joke. Someone in the freakin Congo says you must be type rated to even think about joining our village and have the pleasure of working here. Anyways the cash will likely not be 3500usd a month that would be stretch even for Cal. No doubt there will be a bond as they realize without the leg shackle this symbiotic relationship generally ends very soon. Cash wise 6k-7k a month for an Rp is not unheard of with the present OT we have been doing. And yes ELO pilots do get tax returns and there required days in country. An ELO base may or may not be available. In my opinion if these guys decided to pay in the future this would be a reasonable job. Kal is an Fo option but does not upgrade. Commuting is easy, and the new CP is a good dude. Upgrading does happen, but you have to survive and it is rare. Personally I enjoy 98.9 percent of my flights here. Iam however a dork at the best of times. Anyways yes they are recruiting and have discussed increasing the pay to attract candidates. Believe it when I see it myself.......just my opinion.

[flyinryan76]

What would the chances be of getting hired there with 3,000 hours, an ATP but no TR?

[matador15]

i was reading these posts regarding the hrs, i am curious in what country are u employed? seems to be a good number of hrs despite de worldwide crisis !
i'm a prospect pilot by the way I'm just looking at options

cheers !

[flyinryan76]

I'm employed in the U.S. Could've gone to the regional airlines here a number of times but I can't stand the crappy pay and horibble treatment of pilots! Come to think of it, it doesn't sound all that different from what many of you guys have described at CAL. At least I get to be in Taiwan though! :)

[wayyyoutthere]

Hey Ryan.

Taiwan? Have you been there? We are not talking about KUL or SIN. This is Taiwan..... Its not GREAT to be there, but its just ok. I would say actually that it rather sucks here. I would waaay rather be anywhere in the Continental US or Canada or Europe than Taiwan anyday. If you want to come to asia, I suggest you try Air Asia, Vietnam Airlines, Tiger, Cathay, or KAL. Yes its tru CAL/EVA doesn't say "we won't upgrade you" but you might as well read it as that. I would say less than say... 2% of any foreigners that come here actually get it. You think your gonna be that 1 or 2 %??? Dream on! I know others that have worked here read this soo.... speak up if you agree with me! I saw no less than a few hundred foreigners come here and leave, not because they just found better jobs, but because CAL was a really bad place to work. Many even left and paid the bond to leave. And I will repeat, out of that 300 that were here, about a dozen are left! I suggest you read between the lines!

I don't really think that you realize what you are giving up or missing if you come here. If you come here, you will probably get stuck forever in the contract world, and most likely, miss that chance you may have for a legacy in the US or your home country just by not being present in the country. Also, you will be living like a travelling gypsy, unable to sustain any meaningful relationship. You will also be missing much of the years where its important to meet your life partner. One day you turn 40 and you realize why you are still single, have no kids and probably now never will. Its because you decided to go to that commuting contract job in another country during your best years. Many of you thinking about this may scoff at it as I did when others were warning me, but believe me, its important.

My best advice from experience, is stay in your home country and build your castle. Be with your friends, meet your partner, and live a good life. This commuting thing is neat for a short while, but after that it sucks. Pay your dues in the regionals, and give the majors there a shot. When you have done that, then try this.

Life is not perfect, and neither is aviation, but the grass is not greener on the other side.... EVER. Its the same, it just has different weeds growing!

Remember, you will pay 20% tax in Taiwan, then you will have to pay tax in the US. And that on about 5k/month minus whatever your bond is, and then you will be worked to the bone for 22 days a month.... yes...almost every day!!!! (ok...1day a week off then) Your 8 days off/month you will have to commute back and forth, and so effectively you will have 6 days in your home, where you will be jet lagged and sleeping during the day probably.... feeling like ****, and then back to work again for that after tax 4k/month. And you will be stuck with it for a few years unless you want to pay the bond. And when you go, you are entitled to nothing! Think im exageratting? Why would 99% of all the foreigners that have come here have left?

Trust me, go to Cathay or something. Don't come here. Unless they finally ante up and actually pay market++ to compensate for the shortcomings.

If you come for an interview, ask how come so many foreigners have left in the past. I would love to see what answer they come up with for that!

Good luck.

PM me anytime.

[concordino]

wayyyoutthere

Great and balanced post with really the essence of the real matter.:D

[littlejet]

My, my, how the tables are turned....

Ask them this on the screening:

How many expatriates did you have two years ago and how many are still working for you and why?

Then paste the answer here and wait for the response.

One more thing.
Do not settle with their bond proposal.
Do not give them any money.

[dabssa]

Hey waaaaytoodepressed

Why don't you go to Cathay? It's so easy giving advice on anonymous forums. Basically what you're saying is, if they paid you more all that relationship, possibly never having kids, missing your friends crap...... would actually be worth it? Good, every hooker has her price as well as every pilot. Just because you're depressed, suicidal, your relationship is in shambles, dislike your workplace, dislike Taiwan, doesn't mean everyone else is like you. Sure this place has shortcomings but overall (EVA) didn't layoff any pilots last year, the paycheck was on time and now that we're flying more the money is not too bad, yes it can and should be better. Expats are leaving all the time, apparently for better jobs. I'm looking for my ticket out but have not found it yet.

I have a TW girlfriend, seldom go back to my home country, my tax rate end of the year is 12%, don't have to pay tax in my home country, life here is cheap. It's definitely not expat like HK or SIN but having a local gf helps a lot.

I'm waiting for the day waaaaytoodepressed becomes a one line news in Taoyuan Bugle,"expat no name pilot commits suicide by stepping in front of a truck transporting pigs...''

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. :ok:

[littlejet]

Good, every hooker has her price as well as every pilot

A bit harsh don't you say?

May I ask you two questions, seems that you really like the place.

1. Why don't you marry your girl from Taiwan?
2. Why are you looking for a ticket out?

[dabssa]

No, not harsh at all. The depressed one said ''Unless they finally ante up and actually pay market++ to compensate for the shortcomings. '' So he has a price he would be willing to suffer for.

1. Why do you care about my personal life? I may marry her, I may not, who is to say what the future will bring. There have been more then a few foreign pilots marrying Taiwanese girls. I'm happy, she's happy and that's all that matter. This has nothing to do with flying here, just improves my life immensly.

2. Looking for better opportunities elsewhere because of that well know grass story... I know command will probably never come here, money is on the low side when comparing other places, but still fine and acceptable for my personal situation. Sure, living in Taipei as a foreigner is challenging but I get on with my life and make the best of it.

I just choose not to be depressed, pissed off, angry, suicidal... I mean, the depressed ones story is like ABC movie of the week. A pathetic sob story. One man's (I use that term loosely) life shouldn't be a determining factor in taking a job or not.

But I'm just talking from my ass, this being pprune how could I actually have something positive or at least neutral to say?

[groundtoflightdeck]

How is the commuting policy and how difficult to hold a western North American outport base? All the minus' to the company aside flying a widebody from YVR is fairly coveted job in Canada. So I'd like to judge the company myself at an interview. All the critizisms and praise is gratefully noted though. Cheers.

[cosmiccomet]

Something positive about CAL are the peanuts...are great:}:}:}

[dabssa]

With EVA, the only way you can be flying a heavy out of Vancouver is if you get the 747. There are no outport bases anymore as far as I know. Then once a month you could bid for a YVR trip, most of the time you will get it. You start and end all your trips in TPE. Commuting to YVR I imagine is easy, block days off + 2 days annual leave per month you will have perhaps 8 days off at home (you lose some days commuting). And if you get that one TPE-YVR trip every month maybe stretch your home days to 10.

If you get MD11 that's a totally different beast, 330 regional flying with occasional Vienna or Brisbane, 777 the best and most stable roster of all but mainly reserved for Taiwanese. Overall take a look at your current experience, age, where you wanna be in 10 years and make your decision. It's not the best or the worst job out there, and as long as you keep a good healthy attitude, view it as temp job of a few years you will do fine. Oh, and get yourself a gf here, enjoy the nights out in Taipei. Basically what I'm saying is, enjoy your time no matter where you are. Leave your room, get a metro card, taxi discount card, local cellphone and have fun.

[Pin Head]

so CAL are recuiting on their website? but what about EVA? There is no link. Slightlyconfusing after speaking to a skipper in the hotel who said that they were?

Chances of getting in with 7700hrs TT and 2800hrs B756 RHS?

[flyinryan76]

In all seriousness, thank you for the information you posted earlier.

Having said that...

Yes, I have been to Taiwan many times. My WIFE is Taiwanese and part of our family currently lives there. Personally, I love it there and would much prefer it to any place in Canada or Europe any day! I also speak Chinese, granted its not fluent, but it sure makes a big difference.

I fully realize what I'm giving up by LIVING in Taiwan and not the U.S. I think the problem is that you are expecting to live the same life in Taiwan as what you had in the U.S. (or wherever it is you are from). It is a different country, different language, different people. You have to adjust yourself and get out and enjoy the culture there. This, I believe, is a big part of the reason many foreigners have left EVA/CAL. Yes, I agree that pay and work life have a lot to do with it as well but I don't believe that is the whole story. You see too many people writing on here about how they lose two days commuting back home, and how they are stuck in some hotel/dorm room in Taiwan doing nothing on their layovers. I don't care what country you live in, you will hate any place when you try to live like that!!!

Of course by living there I will have much more time at home with my wife and kids. My taxes will also be greatly reduced from the example you provided since I will be living there. I have my family and friends in Taiwan so I will still be "at home."

***dabssa... thanks for all the information as well. Any help or advice you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated.

*** Is there anyone else on here who has applied and either received a response back from CAL or gone to an interview recently?

[Stu Gats]

hey guys... all this talk about girlfriends brings up another point: if we're hired by CAL (or EVA) and want to make the move to Taiwan, are we able to bring our girlfriends to live there with us? or do they get left behind in our home countries? anyone know?

no response/call from CAL yet for me... +3700TT, +1000Jet, etc... (maybe its not enough). having trouble with the application website again too...

thanks

[groundtoflightdeck]

Just reference the scheduling... how is bidding done? If one was could bid trips to YVR could you not bid all YVR pairings and bounce back and fourth?

Just to be clear, I have not heard from them; 5000TT+, 1000 Jet, 3000 airline

[littlejet]

The reason why people left CAL/EVA is not Taiwan and its people.
It is the Airline.
If you want to go there, by all means go and you will enjoy it.
Nice routes, airplanes, decent roster. Taiwan is clean and convenient.
But do not expect anything. Stability, long term job, salary raise, upgrade, seniority, contract honoring, fair taxation. Training is another issue.
If you are with the family check out the fees of TAS (Taiwan American school) and the rentals at Tien-mu. For the local schools your kid needs to speak Chinese or you commute so you don't see your family.
Contract is only for few years and will not be renewed subject for the requirements.
Bottom line, you are an expat, replacing the cadet until he is prepared to take over.
You are not welcomed, you are required.
Act accordingly and you 'll be fine

L.

[armchairpilot94116]

Taiwan gives 30 day landing visa to citizens of a great many countries (UK citizens get 90 day landing visa). If you get an Alien Resident Certificate by virtue of working for Ci or EVA then your WIFE (but not a girlfriend) could stay in Taiwan by piggybacking on your ARC. You would both be entitled to national health care after a short qualifying period. But she wouldnt be able to work on her ARC thats tied to yours. If she holds a passport from an English speaking country (such as USA/Canada/UK/Australia/New Zealand/South Africa) then she can teach English at cram schools , provided she has a 4 year college degree or a 2 year degree and a teaching certificate . She will then get her own work related ARC based on her teaching English. This is what your girlfriend can also do if she qualifies. Pay is around 20 usd/hour.

Not a whole lot of other jobs. IF she wants to work in another field she will need at least two years experience in that field and be sponsored by a company that is qualified to hire her.

I gather in the past many young pilots have gone to Ci and EVA to get the rating and hours and then left for better positions elsewhere. To stay for decades in Taiwan would mean you REALLY want to be there.

Taipei American School (your child needs to have a US passport to enroll there) and Taipei European School (your child needs a European passport to enroll there) are both very expensive at bout 12,000 us/annum or thereabouts. So if you have children, you may want to let them go to local schools and become fluent in Mandarin.

Please correct me if I am wrong on any of the above, been ten years since I left the island.

edit: Wanted to add that another way for your Girlfriend to stay in Taiwan longer then 30 days each time would be if she enrolls in a Mandarin class. She can get an ARC based on that. There are requirements for how many hours a week she needs to go to school. But its not very expensive and there are many qualified schools.

p.s. A great forum to get info about life in Taiwan is Taiwan's Global Online Community • Forumosa (http://www.forumosa.com) You can ask the expats on that forum questions and get some straight answers.

[Stu Gats]

thanks for the info about 'importing' your girlfriend, thats exactly what i needed to know.

another quick question for those expats living in Taiwan or elsewhere in Asia (or the Middle East)... are you somewhat of a "tight-knit" group when you're there? as in: is it easy to make friends once you're out there, get together for beers when you're off, meet other similar expats to hangout with... or is it an every man for himself kind of deal? making friends with locals is all good too of course, but sometimes its nice to have some type of social structure already set up when you arrive. at my airline here in the West its hard to meet other F/Os, we all have our own thing going on. when we go to work - its to work. then we go our own way and do our own thing after... maybe as an expat pilot its different?

[Fubaliera]

Ive applied with no answer. 6500, 4000Jet 2200 Turboprop

[JammedStab]

How difficult is the medical, specifically eyesight. I have 20/15 vision corrected but 20/200 or worse uncorrected.

[dabssa]

555orange, did you post under a wrong nick?? All my jabs have been at wayyyoutthere for his depressing, sad and narrowminded views. This is your first post under this topic so wtf exactly are you refering to?

Is that how it's done? Have a few nicks and spew verbal diarrhea every chance you get? I'm glad you went to a better airline, equally good as Cathay, even better. I'm speechless, nothing more I can say.

D

[TWN PPL]

dabssa

Hot off the press. 25% payrise for pilots, no layoffs, 2 days off extra every month. 9th floor official news will be released on Friday.

This is what you said on April 02,2009. How did it play out?
With EVA, the only way you can be flying a heavy out of Vancouver is if you get the 747. There are no outport bases anymore as far as I know. Then once a month you could bid for a YVR trip, most of the time you will get it.
How is the duty reg in eva? I didn't know we had a bidding system. mercy from the scheduler i reckon.

[wayyyoutthere]

LOL...

Hey Dabssa, work better for ya? .... :)

I am simply providing a neutral and as close to truth post as I could muster. Reality is that some companies just plain "suck". Im just the messenger... but your post is quite funny.

I did go to another company, equally as good as Cathay. In fact even better. So sorry to hear you are still stuck there. Maybe Cathay will give you a second chance. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif Leaving was the best thing I ever did.

I am simply trying to help our colleagues with what "my take" was on my experience with the Taiwanese companies were. Of course its my opinion only...and of course its an anonymous forum. Your ability for the obvious is striking! And quite funny... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif:ugh:

Ryan, I did not realize you had Married a Taiwanese, and had so much experience with the country. Like Dabykins said, its different for everyone. However, I do stand true to my post. You might have a great time there then, since you will have your family with you, but don't think that it will make you a local at the company. The fact remains that the companies there really suck. I have seen many others there who were just like you, and were passed over again and again. None similar to you became captains. All that I knew similar to you (married a local etc) moved on because they kept getting screwed. And I won't even scratch the surface at how seemingly brainless the managment is! Typical top down authoritarian style management. Policy is spoken by whoever is in charge and even if it does not make sense, no one will question and it will continue forever that way. Its unbelievable sometimes. I suggest you go, and check it out, but then keep looking, and focus on a place where you will be on a seniority list for upgrade, and the pay is way better, and it NOT CONTRACT. Especially if you have a fam.

Keeping it simple: The money sucks...it doesnt compete with the rest of the world, you will be fighting an uphill battle based on your skin colour (sad but true), you will work twice as hard (this is not an exaggeration!), you will get no benefits, less vacation time, no upgrade, etc etc. If your American, you will have to pay tax to the US regardless of if your not living there anymore or not and it sounds like you are. From other countries, maybe you can get away with 13-15%. Fabykins says he paid 12%, which means he was an FO and made ***** but still loved it. LOL. Guess he forgot that the more you make the more you pay... .(hey Faby...its graduated numb*****), which makes the fact that he is defending it all the more rediculous for him since hes basically telling everyone he made a ***** salary there and loved it when he could have been enjoying life anywhere else at double the pay. :ugh:

Although You might accept all the shortcomings since your will have a better family life. However I would suggest that you consider some of the other aspects that you should look at considering you have a family and kids. Pension, upgrade, permanent nature employment not contract, paid schooling, etc. CAL/EVA do not have schooling benefit packages. So you are regulated to the public system. You will not be able to afford the private system. The Taipei/American school is about 20k/year. Just a suggestion, but consider Hong Kong to Cathay or even to the Sandbox and get an upgrade sooner. I think you will be happier as you will get double the money, more time off, work less etc etc. Or stay in your home country and go for the legacy.

Btw, I greatly enjoyed my time in Taiwan, but I hated the company. And I hated how they lied to get you there and use you as an FO, and then get you out so they could only upgrade locals. It even happened to the guys I knew that have local family! But, there is a great nightlife, but I am only dealing with what were MY and most others frustrations with the companies. But then I have seen great nightlife everywhere I have worked. Non of the foreigners stayed... thats just the fact. Think about that. Why would that be? I think Hong Kong would be the best place for you. Dragon Air or Cathay. Your wife will be happy and Hong Kong is in my opinion way more of a better experience all around. And since you have a family, it will have much better of the kind of benefits you should be looking at as a family. Paid school, retirement fund, more holidays, less work days, permanent position etc. Or go and get your 320 command at Air Asia in KUL.

Even though your wife is Taiwanese, you will still be on a contract of the length chosen by CAL/EVA. Recently CAL contract renewal was 1 year. In otherwords, every time you come due, they will look at the req's and either keep you or say goodbye. Put too much time in a company like this, eventually you will be let go and have invested 5+years, with kids in school, no pension savings, and suddenly having to look for a job, no upgrade and having to start over with a real seniority company, and no way to support your family. Taking a big chance man. Over the last year CAL did not renew most foreigner contracts no matter who you were. All nationals stayed, almost all foreigners were terminated! Read between those lines there! You will not be able to be on a local type scheme, and wouldn't want too, because that pay is even more rediculous at about 2-3k month.

Just my opinion for ya.... again! Good luck man!

[dabssa]

Sure works fine oh the depressed one.

Wrong choice of words regarding bidding for trips. Sorry, you can request a trip every month. Aussie 330 guys if you wanna go to Brisbane, or Canadian 747 wanna go to YVR once a month chances are good you will get it. It's not a bid system, but just purely a request which the scheduler may or may not give you. Just live with the fact that for your time on duty they own you and that's that.

And that hot off the press stuff, just goes to prove that any cretin (including myself) can write bs and nobody will refute the claim. That is, bull**** becomes fact. It is a rumour network after all and pilots love rumours.

[Just another student]

I have for a long time considered applying to EVA, mainly for the reasons listed below.

a) I assumed that they were a good employer and that the terms and conditions would be fair.

b) I would love the opportunity to operate within south east asia and EVA seem to have an excellent safety record and interesting route structure.

c) I have always wanted to fly the MD-11 and Eva offer one of few opportunities globally for an ex-pat to operate one.

Having read this thread however, those thoughts of applying have gone straight to the back of my mind. I fully appreciate the grass isn't greener etc but is Eva really that bad? It would seem a good opportunity for an FO to gain 4 years of good international ops experience and numerous heavy hours in the log book.

Nobody is 100% happy at any airline IMHO and all carriers have their faults, but as a current 737 FO who is looking to move onto heavier metal in the future, I am struggling to find anybody speaking positively about their companies, enough for me to want to take the plunge and send an application off. My current airline are a good bunch and I am lucky to be where I am, so I don't want to throw that away and spend years regretting doing so.

Its easy to say go to CX, but you only have to have a read of fragrant harbour and have a chat with some of their guys to see how their recruitment needs are being fulfilled.

Its probably too much of a risk to leave a permanent contract, for a fixed term, non-renewable (it seems) deal anyway (for a guy in my position).

Cheers

JAS

[groundtoflightdeck]

So does CAL use the same concept request 1 trip per month? My current airline does the same but she can make magic happen in the blocks...

[cosmiccomet]

I would not move from a permanent contract B737 FO in Europe to an FO contract position in Taiwan.

You have the four stripes much closer where you are now than in any of these two companies in TWN.

At the moment I came to CAL I had the chance to go for a permanent A320 FO position in my country and I was blinded by the Mighty B747-400ERF in CAL.
All my fellows who had accepted the A320 FO position have been upgraded to Captain at the end of last year...and I am still an FO:{:{

Anyway, you can apply and see with your own eyes.

[Deske1]

Been there 3 years.Fed up with the double-standard ,racist treatment.They are lying on the interview,even when they ask You a question.Upgrade?ha-ha!

CRM:ha-ha!:yuk:
Written and verbal reports behind You?Yes,any time!:ok:
Corruption with rostering?:ok: Take a packed envelope every month!

Also,one more thing Taiwanese CAA is not recognised anywhere in the world.So is your Taiwanese ATPL with your annual SIM checks.If You ever want to fly outside of Taiwan and maintain your ATPL,You pay your own LPC/OPC every year.

When CAL didnt give a ***t to my contract terms and changed it,I did the same with the bond.Its a two way street.

Regarding with the bond,never heard anybody taken to the court.Not even the OZ guy from EVA,who left his uniform in his room and never returned from Home Leave.I personally know 4 guys not going back to CAL or EVA from Home Leave and nothing happened.Taiwan is not recognised as a country according the one-China statement.They cant sue You in your home country unless You enter again to Taiwan later.

Important: DON'T GIVE THEM ANY MONEY!

[flyinryan76]

Once again, thank you all for your excellent responses. I am fully aware of the shortcomings that CAL has. In fact, I am weary of going there myself but as I mentioned earlier, I do have many other reasons to be there.

I was wondering if any of you know or have seen of others making the transition from contract to permanent employment with either company? Of course I relalize you would have to be a Taiwan citizen to do this. I ask because I do have the ability to gain citizenship through my wife. Is it possible to make that trainsition? Before anyone goes off about how I wouldn't want to do this because they make less money, or..., or... That is not my question!!! I am simply wondering if it is possible and/or has been done before.

[groundtoflightdeck]

There has been lots of talk on the lack of upgrades...
So what's happening here if they have expat FOs with the requirments for command and they need expat captains can you not make the switch? Is there a lack of experience or skill or is it corprate culture?

Thanks.

[littlejet]

No.
You are on the time limited contract. Max 3 yrs (CAL). You need few years and few thousand hrs in the company and the RP position + advanced oral test + mentoring + upgrade course. Simply there is no time.
They cannot easily let go a local so it is cheaper and easier for them to train their owns and you will babysit.
And they know that after the upgrade you will disappear....

Just a reminder.
Last year they did not renew any of the expat contract.
Instructors, Captains, RPs, FOs, all very experienced and some of them with more than 10 years with CAL had to go...
At that time locals got the raise and they built a brand new operations center.

[groundtoflightdeck]

So if you were able to stick around the company for at least 1 renewal would you have a shot at upgrading?

[littlejet]

If you were able?
That is the good question.
Being upgraded there is not a matter of experience and ability, as you asked previously. For them it is a privilege and a reward.
It is their culture.
If you like to gamble, say 5 years of your career, give it a try

[EL CAPITAN]

FyingRyan76, you can join as an expat and gain Permanent Resident status if you stay at least 7 years in Taiwan, but since your wife is Taiwanese your case would be different, in EVA expats and locals have the same salary except that expats get either a room at their building or a house allowance, but if you become PR you loose the house allowance (I think, not sure about this if your wife is Taiwanese if your wife is foreigner you don't loose it), but the rest of the salary is the same. In EVA you get a 4 year contract, and is almost like a permanent contract, LAST YEAR EVA RENEWED EVERYBODY AND DIDN'T LAY OFF ANYBODY, I'm not defending EVA I'm just stating the FACTS, is it the best job?? I don't think so, as an FO it would a be very very long wait for upgrade, but as I'm writing this they are interviewing FO's who have been there I think for about 9 years for upgrade, if they pass it or not is a different story. If you are willing to really go to Taiwan go to EVA, not CAL, and hurry they are in desperate need at the moment. I tell you all this because I KNOW FIRST HAND.....Cheers...The CAPT.....

[wayyyoutthere]

Ryan.

I agree with the Skipper. If you must go, try EVA. They didn't lay anyone off last year. CAL laid off lots, and ALL for foreigners who thought they had some protection of experience, or years of service, or extra work in the office. Capts were mere months away from collecting their 200k+ pension allotment after investing 10 years, but CAL let them go so that they wouldn't reach it. This is common practice for CAL.

Also, you cannot become a national (ie: Passport) even if your wife is Taiwanese. Permanent resident and "National" are 2 different things. Only Nationals are protected under the labor laws of Taiwan.

If you were on a national contract, you would not get housing pay, and you would be flying a Heavy 90 hours a month for 3k gross. You really want to put your family through that? You may like it here, but you wont for that kind of take home pay.

Good luck.

[cosmiccomet]

CAL is renewing contracts to expats at this moment but in local terms and for a maximum of three years.

Depends in your face, from where you are, performance, some guys get 1, other two but none more than three.

Anyway, we are less the 60 expats in all fleets and counting down...

[blackbird71]

Appears as though Eva is the best out of the two. Of course one must consider the no chance of upgrade and crap salary before one would make such a critical career and life decision.

My 2 NT's worth

[flyinryan76]

I would definetly prefer EVA over CAL but unfortunately EVA is only hiring locals at the moment. No expat hiring. :(

[EL CAPITAN]

Ryan76, get your application in now, they are HIRING, I tell you this because I KNOW. The salary for FO I believe would around 5K -6K, including per diem for 80-90 hrs, maybe some current FO there can help here, this is after taxes I Think............. Later......The Capt..

[169west]

EL CAPITAN
what are your sources? EVA isn't looking for pilots at all, and CAL will probably get saturated pretty soon too!

[dabssa]

The numbers are correct for 1st year expat, just slightly more 2nd year. You have a 300h in 4 months guarantee. 13th month is a nice bonus plus at least 4500usd tax return if you're single or married with kids, parents.... 7000usd. Depends how you live, it's not too bad. We have been flying a lot. Depends on the fleet, I think MD11 has been doing the most flying. 100h block per month, last 6 months and it is not letting up for them. People come and go, don't let the eternal pessimists deter you from applying. International airline experience you get here can only help you should you decide to move on. If you get 330, 777 or even 747 you're lucky. MD11 well, not so lucky.

[groundtoflightdeck]

Are you able to select a preference if type when hired?

[Just another student]

dabssa, do you class the guys that get put on the MD-11 as unlucky due to the hours flown / roster?

I'm guessing that the rosters at Eva do not allow for international commuting?

[flyinryan76]

I would like to know what your sources are also? EVA is hiring for locals only. I have a few people I know there (locals) who have been trying to help me for the past year or so. In fact, I even spoke with the expat recruiter at EVA about two weeks ago and he told me they are not hiring at this time.

[dabssa]

MD11 guys get a lot of schedule changes, some months there is lots of positioning. Positioning on EVA pax aircraft is in business, other airlines you sit in economy:*. Can't really choose your fleet. They will put you wherever they need you. Most likely MD11 or 744. If they really really need you, might get 330 or 777.

[PA44]

Hi you all,
Just a few questions, 1st is about CAL, they state that the minimus for F/O are around 1500hours with some jet experience, but really do you have any clue what have been the experience off the latest F/O entering on the companny.
2nd is what's the bond they apply to a non rated pilot on their A/C?
About EVA will they really recruit soon?
Being an F/O with an full ATPL license and 2000hours ( 1700 jet time ) with ICAO english level 6 what are my changes or options to an career change.

Thx

[bmwm5]

hi you all,

looking for info regarding eva fo expat recruitment.any info will be well appreciated.thank you

[SsmokK]

Hi all,

I looked throughout the post for some more specific infos about md11. I should have a screening the next month for Md11 in Eva (I think, the girl didn't tell me nothing about the company, but it's the only Md11 in Taiwan), and I'm trying to understand how can the conditions be. The lady told me there's gonna be some 8-9 days off per month. All attached? I understood the TR was paid by the airline, but as far as I read here, do they give you a training bond? Salary is still around 4400 $/month?
Anyway also a personal point of view. I come from an expat contract way crappier than one can imagine, with huge schedule change and about 90 hours med range/month. And most of all a non welcoming company who's been in the last month changing the conditions and taking out the few benefits that made life just acceptale here. I'm just interested in heavy jet experience. Is it so unlivable as many say?? Thanks!

[XINHUEI]

Anybody , the two companies are recruiting only Pilot with experience or have a option for the new pilots...????

[flyinryan76]

It's been several weeks since CAL began accepting applications. Has anyone yet received a response or heard anything from them one way or another? For those that currently work there or have in the past, how long does it typically take before you hear anything back?

[coltrane]

Regarding EVA, how do I apply? According to their website there are no job openings at the moment. Or do they only invite people they already have in file?

thanks

[L1011-500]

heheheheh, amazing

I just had a few good laughs with the ppruners here.

Amazing how feellings , points of view and oppinions difer.

well, a lot that as been said here is true, they only big difference beeing the person it came from.
I allways say: Everything depends where you came from.
A retired guy from a major will most likely get ok with it; flying for fun enjoying is life.
A newbie will love it at first but maybe will soon "open" his eyes. And for them, in my humble opinion is all good. Getting the chance to fly a B747 early in his career its a plus.
Then you have the "experienced" guy who allready came with a different perpective of aviation and he is probably the one who´s led to believe in a carreer perspective, and will very soon find about about the truth, and leave.
Last but not least the one that doesn´t really have another option other than stick with it.For him life is great, or at least he tries to make the best out of it.

So no wonder one will say this is GREAT and on the next second someone will bark at him.

regarding the money everything as been said. Not really good, but once again, it depends on each individual.

As for the "right" experience, as long has you have the barelly minimuns you´re good for it. As far as I know they haven´t called anybody yet, but should start. Fact is the company is short of pilots, again....

The bond, yes , you have to show those greenies in advance, and after 3 years you get it back ( if you still around). As for the amount it differs. based on the time you join and experience. Rule of thumg , boeing experience pays less. Sometimes it doesn´t make any sense why a guy with a 737 rating pays less for it compared to widebody experience for ex.
And that will be reflected on the training later on. But well....
If I am not wrong the last course payed around 16 to 18K . when the previous varied between 13k and 16k for B744 drivers. Airbus tends to be higher , around 20k


In my own oppinion , see it with your eyes, and judge it for your self.

best of luck

[cosmiccomet]

The latest expat groupe without B737NG expirience in CAL (july 07) has to deposit in the Megan Bank U$D 21,500.
They could split half at the start of the ground school and the other half before the type rating check.

They had another two guys with 738 experience who paid U$D 16,000, same option of spliting the deposits in two.

The pleadge is for three years count from the route check, so it doesn't include the ground school and the sim period.

During the ground school and sim the salary was U$D2000 (taxable 20%) plus the hotel accomodation (no breakfast).

During IOE training, still have the hotel and the salary is increase but not full salary until the route check.

You would have 10 days off between the type rating check and the IOE training.
But CAL doesn't allow you to fly JUMP SEAT in their flights until you have passed the ROUTE CHECK.
So you would have to pay an ID90 fare with CAL plus you don't have ID90 with other zed career before 6 month of employment in CAL.

It would be good to have USD 500 for the CAL sector plus the full fare ticket from the CAL destination to your home town.

Those were the numbers almost three years ago.

[Pin Head]

any news on the subject?

[armchairpilot94116]

EVA and Ci have reported a very strong first quarter, which will no doubt help to ensure growth. Which could mean more pilots needed.

Taipei Times - archives (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2010/04/29/2003471767)


EVA reports its highest quarterly profit in five years

By Yu-huay Sun
BLOOMBERG
Thursday, Apr 29, 2010, Page 12
“EVA’s earnings are turning around this year.”

— Bruce Tsao, analyst at Capital Securities Corp

EVA Airways Corp (長榮航空), the nation’s second-largest carrier, yesterday reported its highest quarterly profit in more than five years, with net income rising to NT$1.25 billion (US$40 million), or NT$0.42 a share, in the first three months of the year, from NT$200 million, or NT$0.09, a year earlier.

First-quarter sales climbed 38 percent to NT$23.1 billion, the Taoyuan-based company said in a stock exchange filing.

EVA Airways carried 17 percent more passengers in the first quarter as air travel rebounded after the worst recession in more than six decades.

Larger rival China Airlines Ltd (CAL, 中華航空) reported a record first-quarter profit.

“EVA’s earnings are turning around this year,” said Bruce Tsao (曹伯瑄), an analyst at Capital Securities Corp (群益證券), who has a “buy” rating on the shares.

EVA Airways shares closed unchanged at NT$15.40 in Taipei trading yesterday.

The airline carried 1.64 million passengers in the first quarter, compared with 1.4 million a year earlier, according to Bloomberg calculations of data provided by the company.

Increased flights between Taiwan and China also boosted the numbers and added to profit, Tsao said.

EVA Airways plans to sell 500 million new shares, the company said in a separate filing.

Proceeds will be used to repay bank loans and strengthen finances, the carrier said.

The carrier raised freight charges from 20 percent to 30 percent on average on Saturday last week, said Eric Lin (林司忠), a public relations manager for the carrier.

[PappyJ]

Would like to speak directly with a CURRENTLY EMPLOYED expat pilot on contract with CAL (A340 or A330). PM me if you wouldn't mind answering some questions. Thanks

[cosmiccomet]

If it is enough for you I have been employed by CAL up to last January 8th.

I was flying B744 as FO from July 2007 to January 8th 2011.

Your questions are welcome.

Cheers.

Ariel

[555orange]

Pappy, you won't get any info from the currently employed expat group because there are only a few left. Thus to do so, would be exposing themselves. And sadly, there are not many good things to say.

A few hundred expats to a dozen, and now needing them again. Why did they get rid of them or why did they all run away? Name me any successful airline globally where this has happened to this degree. They are fools running under a gov't nationalistic umbrella. Not the place to be. They make money only by pure virtue that the govt takes on the AC financing and the almighty dollar rules over safety and they employ very cheap labor. This combined with old Air Force mentality or in the office still is a recipe fo something...

If you must go to taiwan, work for a real company. evergreen.

Ps: Tip: since you will be commuting, change the law of jurisdiction to your home country. Then they can't screw with you. Expats don't have labor law protections in Taiwan. The companies know this, and now you do too.

[EL CAPITAN]

OK guys it's been a year since this thread started, some of you didn't believe that EVA was going to hire, here we are 9 months later, lots including female pilots have been hired by EVA, congrats for the ones that made it in, and like the previous poster said , if you want to go to Taiwan, go to EVA, I have said before, I'm not defending EVA, but by no means go to CAL if you really want to go to Taiwan. They even got a little pay raise.....later .The Capt..:ok:

[Beechslave]

Does EVA/China have pilot bases in U.S and do they really hire regularly? It seems like their website always shows openings. Is 2300 jet time enough to get an interview?

[Beechslave]

bump-------------

[burnable gomi]

El Capitan said:

Ryan76, get your application in now, they are HIRING, I tell you this because I KNOW. The salary for FO I believe would around 5K -6K, including per diem for 80-90 hrs, maybe some current FO there can help here, this is after taxes I Think............. Later......The Capt..

Yes, hurry and get your application in so you can fly a widebody jet for less than half the money that everybody else in the world gets.

[EL CAPITAN]

You are absolute right BG, and 3 years later you can go to EK, EY or KA like many other turboprop pilots did 4 years ago, it is all about career advance, in case you haven't noticed and much better than buying a type rating or flying for free like lots of guys do in Europe....safe landings....The Capt...:ok:

[hsuman]

Hi Beechslave,

Get your application in ASAP they are hiring rapidly!! 2300 jet time is good!!

For EVA- I think maybe only MD11 gets basing outside of TPE...but you should double check with them once you have made contact.

good luck!

[hsuman]

Fill out a form and mail it in!

You never know, I think your hours/experience are very close, they sometimes relax the requirements when they are short of crews... which is right now.

[drewteh]

hi, im a fresh grad from malaysia, any chance for a fresh grad to grab a job from EVA or china airlines?

need your advise, thanks

[JotaJota]

hi, im a fresh grad from malaysia, any chance for a fresh grad to grab a job from EVA or china airlines? . :confused:

:ugh:

:=

[drewteh]

hi, really need your advise for this
thanks for help

[etops777]

drewteh

hi, im a fresh grad from malaysia, any chance for a fresh grad to grab a job from EVA or china airlines?

need your advise, thanks

Nop. You will not have a chance. Opportunities with a low times are only given to local pilots.

[malaysiacadet]

hi gents,

any info regarding EVA's A330 FO?

pay, roster, benefits etc.etc.?

thank you.

[Worldtramp]

Hey Gentlemen,

did anyone attend the EVA selection (SIM/Wr.Test/interview)
recently ?
just having an upcoming interview at EVA for the B744 in April and I wonder what exactly I have to expect there, cause most of the info here seems to be older stuff.

Thanks for any tips/feedback!



-Good Night And Good Luck-

[Fubaliera]

If anybody has any interview info pls share, thanks in advance, will payback in taiwan beer