Passenger use of the jump seat during flight

[man in black]

Question: Does the following make sense?

On a UA flight, midway across the Atlantic at night, in order not to disturb the other passengers, I went to the area near the galley to read. Whilst there, I pulled down the jump seat (right term?)to sit. Immediately, an FA told me I was violating an FAA rule which prohibits passenger use of the jump seat under any circumstances. I queried if this didn't make more sense during takeoffs and landings. I was told never, never!!

Opinions?

Thanks.

[Tuba Mirum]

Man in Black, I would see the jump seat as part of the cabin crew's equipment for doing their job, and therefore off limits to pax.
A question: what is the procedure for FAs in the event of sudden severe turbulence? I would guess that, quite apart from rendering assistance to pax (desirable but optional, I would think) it involves ensuring their own safety by occupying their jump seat. Use of this seat by pax would therefore seem to constitute a risk, and I'm not surprised if the FAA bans it.

[Fast Jet Wannabe]

Tuba,

An interesting question. I was on a United Airlines flight back from New York to London, which was subjected to some apalling turbulance across the Atlantic.

At one point the flight attendant was right next to me with her drinks cart as the turbulance went from bareable to extremely uncomfortable.

At this point something which I didnt catch was said hurriedly over the PA, and the attendant put the brakes on her trolley, took about three steps back, and sat on the floor in the aisle of the aircraft (767) facing the trolley, in the brace position.

The turbulance was by far the worst I have ever felt, and I understand the FA's prediciment with regards to leaving the trolley unattended. However, many passengers were visibly scared at the lurching of the aircraft, and many were being sick. Seeing the FA put herself into the brace position didn't instill loads of confidence!

The trolley was parked right next to me, as I was seated in a seat "B" (an aisle seat). I tried to help by removing the pots of hot tea and coffee from the top of the trolley and placing them on the floor, but as I did so another large jug, this one thankfully full only with iced water, fell straight into my lap! :)

Apparently it is procedure, (in United at least) not to return to the jump seat if it is deemed unsafe to walk to the distance to the seat. Or to leave the heavy carts unattended.

Any one else experienced something similar/different?

Cheers!

FJW.

[man in black]

In my case (as happens many times on trans Atlantic and Pacific flights), the alternative to sitting on the jump seat is to stand in the galley area to read or talk to the crew, which in the case of turbulence would actually be worse.

[static]

MIB,
How about putting your reading light on?

[man in black]

This tends to wake some passengers up when they don't use eyeshades...........just tryin to be considerate.

[Pandora]

Man in Black,

You helped yourself to someone else's seat in a part of the aircraft that is not designed for passengers. While the FA's response may have been OTT, passengers who interfere with parts of the aircraft that are out of bounds will cause a defensive attitude. Security and practicality are the main issues here. If you have been invited to use the galley jumpseat that is a different matter. But how would you feel is after a trip to the coffee machine you returned to your office to find someone you didn't know sat in your seat with their feet on your desk. Would you call security, tell them to get out or apologise for not bringing them coffee too?

[hostie1]

I agree with you Pandora, man in black the only thing I would see wrong in sitting on my jumpseat is that the galley is the only place we can go to get some peace away from the pax and if someone is sitting there we feel as though we still have to be 'on show', lets face it would you like someone to sit and stare at you eating and drinking, because believe me to some people it is a huge fascination to watch the 'air hostesses' having their dinner.

[basketeer]

this is the real reason u cant sit there -

If the aircraft suffers a decompression during the flight (ie. the oxygen masks drop ) where are the Flight attendants going to sit ? on the jumpseat !. the standard drill for most cabin crew is - mask on , sitdown , strap in . if your in the galley making coffee , the masks drop , you go to the jumpseat to grab the oxygen mask and theres somebody sat there reading a book , your going to have to toss a coin pretty quickly ! this is particularly important during the cruise (approx 30 40,000 ft ) when the time of usefull conciousness is only a few seconds ! its going to be pretty hard finding that empty seat in the cabin !

so 'man in black' next time your sat there reading - remember that drill ! and the poor f/a looking for somewhere to sit !

[This message has been edited by basketeer (edited 24 April 2001).]

[man in black]

Actually, on a few million miles on SQ, CX BA and JAL flights (long hauls), there was rarely if ever a problem. Sometimes, the FAs would encourage one to sit down. The problem, frankly has tended to be on UA, AA and the other US carriers across the Atlantic or down to Latin America. Obviously if the seat needs to be used by the crew, you move. The american FAs react legalistically...maybe its the lawyers.

[Pandora]

Oh please,
another passenger trying to tell flight and cabin crew that they fly so many miles a year...when did you last do 4 sectors before lunch?
MIB as I said before, when invited it is not a problem. What is a problem is when you help yourself. For that there is no justification. And no matter how many millions of miles you have flown, the people who aim to serve you on your flight have almost certainly flown further, and have a perfect right to ask you not to sit in their seat.

[GalleyWench]

MIB, As a member of UA cabin crew I can tell you that it is an FAA regulation that pzx may only sit in a crew jumpseat in the event of a prep for evac and that would be only in a jumpseat that was vacant to begin with. The vigilance in enforcing this FAR is because we as individuals are fined as well as the airline in the event of an 'infraction'. While the crew member in question may have explained it harshly, no passenger is worth 1000 of my money. Yes we are fined (a pilot was just fined 3000 for walking into the galley during boarding without his ID badge on). It is rude, as someone else pointed out, to take someone elses seat, although you may not have thought of it that way as you were obviously trying to be kind to your seatmates. The company teaches us to take any seat, including the floor if turbulence hits. I had my leg broken in turbulence because a pax was blocking my jumpseat (reading a magazine) , so yes the seat needs to remain vacant for the crew.

[man in black]

Friends:

(1) I agree entirely that one doesn't take the seat without being "invited" or asking first (the UA example above had actually started with another of the FAs indicating earlier in the flight it was OK to sit down and later when doing so having another say no). That goes without question and you are all very correct in saying so. This started with a query concerning whether there was a specific regulation expressly prohibiting the use of the jump seat DURING flight. In light of the comments to date, it is probably better not to put the FAs in the position to begin with.

(2) For Pandora - frankly, I think you would be surprised. Many international business men and women do fly more in a typical year than pilots and FAs. How often do you do in excess of 50 flights (incl. multiple sectors) in a month or 10 Asia-Europe or Asia/NA round trips in a month, etc.???? Once at a dinner party in Discovery Bay - HK, we polled the invitees, which included two CX pilots, one CX FA, two investment bankers, a lawyer and the head of Asian sales for a major retailer, on the question of how much they had flown in the previous three months.... and low and behold, the FA was in #4 and the pilots were in #6 and #7 place. Now, no one will argue for a minute that the wear and tear on business people in the air in any way compares to the great stress and responsibility with which FOs and FAs have to contend; however, just to respond politely to your mildly sarcastic comment.

[Reginald]

"You don't have to have birthed the cow to be able to taste the milk." As a former pilot and now a passenger, I believe I can say that these berks who carry on as if only the man behind the controls has the right to make a comment about any subject in the realm of aviation are off base. If our pilots listened more to the people who pay the bills, then perhaps our colleagues around the world wouldn't be worrying about staff reductions and all the other problems the industry confronts. Like MIB, I fly more nowadays in business than I did when on service. The industry could learn a great deal from their frequent flyers. Pandora's comments should have been directed towards the topic in question and not to knock another non-pilot down. MIB wasn't commenting on the avionics, but a subject of relevance to him as a passenger on the flight.

[This message has been edited by Reginald (edited 30 April 2001).]

[Iz]

On a flight where me and a fellow flyer, a 13 year captain, were sitting in economy just behind the CA station, he decided to walk around and then sat down on the CA jumpseat and was quickly removed :)
No big deal, no fuss though. Never too old to learn of course.

Enjoy :)

[f40]

Basketeer, yes and no I would say. In principle you are right, but in practice prhaps it is slightly different for various airlines and their respective aviation authorities?
On the A/C our mob operates we have 1 extra 02 mask at each outer seat row for example. In case of a decompression we are taught to grab the nearest 02 mask and sit down immediately, on the pax's lap if need be. :)
As Galley Wench points out, UA FA's are personally liable for not strictly enforcing FAA rules, and will obviously be pretty stern because of it.
We on the other hand often let pax use our take off seats on long stretches, l ike MIB describes, for reading without disturbing others, for being able to stretch those long legs, or to have some more space for someone travelling with an infant on their lap for 14 hours. No wonder passengers get confused about what is allowed and what isn't.

Not sure what the European regs say, but after MIB's question I will certainly look it up in the manual.
Interesting subject MIB!

rgds
flapsforty

[Seat 22C]

GalleyWench,

Could you please refer me to the FAR that prohibits passenger use of jumpseats?

I did find Volume 3, Chapter 15, Section 6 of Order 8400.10 (Air Transport Operations Manual) that specifies the airline to establish a "Policy for use of jumpseat by anyone other than the assigned F/A", but that's an airline rule, not an FAR ...