Wessex V Sea King

[KPax]

Sorry if this has been asked before, was watching Highland Emergency on CH5 and was wondering whther the Wessex was better in the mountains than the Sea King.

[seafuryfan]

Can you be a little more precise?

[KPax]

As an SAR platform in the mountains which was the better of the two?

[vecvechookattack]

Sea King - Bags more power....

No Wessex...Better winch position

No Sea King....Bigger cabin.....

No Wessex....:eek::eek::eek:

[Herod]

Nah, the Whirlwind beats them both, hands down :ok:

[AdLib]

No way!

Belvedere every time...

[Landroger]

No way!

Belvedere every time...


Cor' crikey - Belvedere? :eek: :) I have no idea how good or useful the Belvedere was, but I can't help wondering why they never tried turbine engines in it? And how good would it have been if they had? Always thought it was a good looking beast. I thought the Sycamore was nice too. :ok:

Roger.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Psst - Landroger: Belvedere = same engine(s) as Wessie 1 & 3, ie Napier Gazelle. Turboshaft, which I'm pretty sure uses a turbine, no?

Anyway, any fule kno that an AB205 beats any Wessex in the mountains any day. And my little Bolkow these days ain't too bad - pity it can't lift much more than half a verbal message when compared to my luvverly Chinook.

[sargs]

Don't know which was best, but I DO know which I'd have rather flown - after carrying out a joint search around Buchaille Etive Mor with Rescue 134, he shut down at dusk and went to the pub with the MRT whilst we in R137 carried on in the dark! Probably why the civvy MRTs always seemed to get on better with the Wessex crews......:(

[Data-Lynx]

Not only is T&B is right about the Belvedere's Gazelles, there is a devil in the detail. The Gazelles ECUs were mounted vertically (look at the belly intakes and the exhausts behind the pilot's ear in the RAF Museum pic below) and both had AVPIN starters. Far too much excitement.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/collections/aircraft/aircraft_images/main_images/belvederehc1.jpg

[vecvechookattack]

are you sure? How often is a Sea king SSE?
Can I ask Vec what experience on Wessex and Sea King SAR you have, and where?

I once saw a Wessex fly into HMS Goldcrest whilst I was stationed there.

I've been in a Sea King.

[Landroger]

Psst - Landroger: Belvedere = same engine(s) as Wessie 1 & 3, ie Napier Gazelle. Turboshaft, which I'm pretty sure uses a turbine, no?


Whoops! So memory is probably playing tricks then Thud? I have this memory image of, on probably the only time I saw a Belvedere in the flesh, the clatter of reciprocating radial? Not so at all? Thanks for the pointer though and thanks too to Data-Lynx for the picture and additional info. :)

So, did anyone ever fly one and were they any good? I believe they were used in Burma?

Roger.

[Herod]

Not Burma, Borneo, during the confrontation with Indonesia in the sixties.

[Guzlin Adnams]

But Belvedere got cancelled coz it cost too much....:E

Eck, where's me jacket...

[vecvechookattack]

Ah, your thinking of Project Belvedere which didn't get cancelled - They just changed the name. The project is alive and well and working hard to try and fit a square peg into a round hole.

[Hueymeister]

gotta be the 'king...it didn't ruin my back...

[Guzlin Adnams]

Thanks VV, I was aware of Project Belvedere and all that bull.
I guess the new name's Project Catara II, using the criteria that you provided.
I don't know much about the old Belvedere other than it may have been the original Wokka. Back to thread though, surely the King out performs the Wessex but I'm no expert so I'll just keep reading.

[Herod]

After two tours on Wessex SRT (I wasn't good enough for SAR), I won't hear a bad word about the old girl. Having said that, I'd have jumped at the chance to have a go at the Sea King.

[rusty_monkey]

I don't know about the flying aspect other than doing air tests but, I did prefer working on the old wessex lovely old lady. both in cyprus and NI. Remember travelling around scotland and landing in a hotel car park to stop for a lovely venison stew, the car park was too small for a Sea King so the wessex wins on the eating out front too!

[bast0n]

A good question!

Having flown both extensively in the mountains and also lots of SAR with the Wessex 5, the Wessex wins on power by a country mile. Effectively the same engines as the Seaking but far less weight. You could not see much out of the Wessex and the Seaking was like sitting in a conservatory by comparison –but – you sat very nearly over the winch in the Wessex so that positioning the hook with whatever was on it was very quick and simple. You could also pop the mainwheel of a Wessex on an outcrop and let people hop in and out! (Remember to have the brakes on!)

Once you come to finding where you were going to, the SK was in a different league. More radios than Currys and TANS et all. With the Wessex, lots of flailing maps and reading of road signs.

In turbulence the SK always felt as though it was going to come apart, (frame 290 probably!), but the Wessex always felt so tough and had an amazingly strong undercarriage for banging it onto the ground.

When watching the Coastguard S61s on the telly they often seem to be very short on power and are concerned to be in a position where an engine failure won’t dump them in the oggin. With the Wessex some people did not even notice when one engined stopped!

At the end of the day I always felt that the Wessex was much more sturdy and FUN to fly – but I suspect the SK has the edge technology wise to do a better job.

Now if you had asked about the Whirlwind 9………………………….

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/jsf_Wessex_Mountains.jpg

[ghostnav]

There's only one way to find out........

[talk_shy_tall_knight]

Continuing with the occasional thread drift towards Belvederes.

Landroger, you may have indeed seen/heard a piston ‘Belvedere’ if it was a prototype. See the link and scroll down about 1/3rd.

Rotors over Churchdown (http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/Rotors.htm)

[bast0n]

As an aside - I once flew a Belvedere and I climbed in up a very long ladder and strapped in. The very kind Crab whose steed it was, appeared up his ladder, sat down and said unstrap now and don't strap in until both AVPIN started Gazelles were started satisfactorily. The ladders also remained in place until a fire free start was achieved. Who ever decided to mount two Gazelles facing downwards with the AVPIN starters underneath them clearly had a perverse sense of humour.

The sensation of flying the beast was like being at the front of a flying railway carriage where the rear followed the front rather reluctantly.

Am I wrong in remembering that when I flew a Sycamore that it only had one collective lever, and if you sat in the left hand seat you flew it back to front as it were?

[Herod]

Bast0n, have to agree about the Wessex and engine failures. I had one shut down on me one summer's day. It was hot (for UK), we were near max weight, and had a 105mm howitzer slung underneath. After some thought we decided not to pickle the load but, with both myself and the crewman ready to let it go at any moment, we came happily to the hover, safely put the gun on the ground, moved over a bit and landed. If I recall correctly, back in the seventies, the only helicopter operating on UK oil/gas support with a genuine engine-out capability was the Wessex; it wasn't until the Puma arrived on the scene that the situation changed.

[Landroger]

Landroger, you may have indeed seen/heard a piston ‘Belvedere’ if it was a prototype. See the link and scroll down about 1/3rd.


Well now Shy Knight, I have no idea how old (or young) I was when Dad and 'Uncle Peter' (a work colleague of Dad's) first took me to SBAC Farnborough, but since I can remember trams in Streatham and watching the Coronation on television, it is chronologically possible for me to have witnessed a radial engined Belvedere! :eek:

This is a fascinating thread and I am learning an awful lot about the aeroplanes and helicopters I watched and loved as a kid. I was not at Farnborough when the DH110 went in - as many others claim - but I did see the Olympus test bed Vulcan; the Beverly when it was almost new; the Argosy when it was; the Javelin 'all weather fighter'; and the "helicopter" (?) I really thought would do the business - the Fairy Rotodyne. Very impressive, very big and very noisy. :)

Thanks everyone for your memories.

Roger.

[sycamore]

If you `google ` Bristol 173 helicopter,all will be revealed..

bastOn, you are correct,the original Sycamores were flown from the LHS,then later modified for training with a central `L` shaped collective,for the QHI in the lhs to operate with a kack-handed right hand.But then, most QHIs are a bit like that anyway !! Great helo ,once you had mastered the manual controls,mechanical trimmers,C of G compensator,propensity to go into ground resonance,`jump` take-offs,and an ability to do max-rate turns,2-stage amber for I/F......
Anyway, what about the WW Mk9..I flew the trials on XM666 when it was fitted with SS11s....recall it`s on a farm somewhere on E Falklands now...

[Flying Icecream]

In the carrier Eagle ,for the Home /Far East/Home commission of 1967-68,we had a whole squadron ,no.820 NAS, of single-engined,Avpin-started Wessex HAS Mk 1. As the name suggests,they were primarily for A/S duties,with their "dipping sonar" and A/S torpedos,but were also used for "planeguard" and "Vertrep" (Vertical Replenishment) duties----all of which is a bit much to ask of a single -engined Helo with known and regularly-occuring gearbox malfunctions ! By the time of the Aden withdrawal,"Vertrepping" all those "Goodies" out of Khormaksar back to the ship, and "Operation Kamaran",the rate of attrition was such that,in order to maintain a creditable and viable "planeguard" prescence,other than using frigates / destroyers, for fixed-wing flying, two Fabulous !!-- Excellent !!-- Wessex Mk 5 twin-engine "Jungly" machines, plus their air & groundcrews,had to be borrowed from HMS Albion.
Sadly,we had to give them back,eventually,and the poor old HAS 1s had their " Un-finest Hour" during NATO Exercise "Silver Tower" in September ,1968,in Arctic waters.By this time,the gearbox situation was so critical that oil-samples were being taken every few hours,and flown ashore to Lossie for analysis ! On one particularly embarrassing occasion,in full view of what appeared to be the whole Soviet "Fishing" Fleet,plus a Kotlin Class Destroyer and,probably, various Soviet submarines,a Wessex gearbox packs up and a Flotation Gear test (successfully) ensues. Jealous of this success, another Wessex,en route to administer aid & succour ,joins in the fun also.Aboard ship,the "Sea Boat's Crew " hurriedly muster (assemble) at their beloved "3-in-1 " whaler,only to find that the engine has thoughtfully been removed.So, Plan B, and they rush off to the other side of the ship, and prepare for deeds of "derring do " in the 25-foot Motor Cutter. In the excitement,however,this boat is released whilst still some height above the water,and there is an ominous "crack!". After travelling for about ten yards,the cutter starts to sink in,under the circumstances,a rather dignified fashion (photo available !) Fortunately,during all this confusion,yet another Wessex is dragged (protesting ?) from the Upper Hangar ; The rotor-blades are spread,the awful,sickly smell of igniting Iso Propyl Nitrate wafts across the flight-deck,and the gearbox remains in one piece,as opposed to thousands,long enough for a whole series of red-faced rescues of Pilots,Observers,Aircrewmen,Divers,Stokers,Seamen et al,to be effected.As far as I know,this was definitely the "end of the line" for the Mk 1 ; But at least it showed that the flotation gear was (but not always !!) highly efficient.Then,in 1969,came the Sea King !! Hooray !!

[Waspie41]

I always remember the safety briefs for the SK were more in depth when mountain flying. Power, wind blah blah.

Can't remember power being a problem in the Wx V.

As an aside, when we withdrew from Singapore in the early 70's. 848's Wx V's did a 100% fly past. One Helo was cleared for a single engine, one flight only so as to achieve the 100%. Such was the power of the mighty Wessex Mark 5's twin gnomes.

[John Eacott]

As an aside, when we withdrew from Singapore in the early 70's. 848's Wx V's did a 100% fly past.

Lead, of course, by the Mighty 826 Vertical Pursuit Sea Kings :ok:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1289-1/826+Sea+King+pair+with+Wessex+forming+for+mass+fly+past+Sing apore.jpg

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1293-1/826+Sea+Kings+with+Wessex+mass+fly+past+Singapore+over+HMS+T riumph.jpg

[Old-Duffer]

baston's right about the Sycamore collective (only one) but it also ran across the cockpit not fore & aft. One needed articulated joints to twist and pull at the same time. In training, there was always a fight between instructor and stude and the poor instructor was flying left handed - so to speak.

The Sycamore also had a habit of running out of cyclic control authority and then over she went. The blades went the other way round as well.

O-D

[bast0n]

John

I think you will find that we were following you out of idle curiosity to see if the Seaking flot gear worked! Below was probably you doing the old "Visual Search" procedure as nothing else seemed to work in locating the enemy submarines!!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/jsf_img460.jpg

Do you remember the Australian 31s tied down to the deck of Melbourne in Hong Kong harbour running for hour after hour to see what was going to break next. Happy days to be in a 5.:)

[John Eacott]

Bast0n,

Not me Chief: RN only, thanks :ok: And that's a much later SK ditching, 6 blade TR. This was our attempt where the flot gear worked for a few hours:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1249-1/824+Sea+King+051+ditched+and+inverted.jpg

Now going totally OT, I'm reliably advised that you are still renowned for pink strides?

[bast0n]

John

I think your informant is probably not far orrff:ok:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll301/tallbronzedgod/jsf_Daddy_red.jpg

[david parry]

Wessex of course with God onboard !!! SAR aircrewman diver:ok: British Pathe - FROGMEN JUMP TO RESCUE (http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=43912)

[vecvechookattack]

What a shame the SAR diver is no more......

[bast0n]

VVV

I had no idea the divers had gone - that really is a retrograde step. Did they ever jump from Seakings?

[John Eacott]

Did they ever jump from Seakings?

When the SAR Wessex was U/S: of course ;)

We carried them on Planeguard, and I dropped one in anger from a SK HAS1 :ok:

[Trim Stab]

An aspect of the Wessex that has always intrigued me compared to current generation helicopters is that the CG was presumably much lower, as the engines were mounted well below the rotor plane.

I expect that greatly reduced roll and pitch rates, but presumably it made deck landings easier?

[Bigtop]

BastOn
Yes they did and we had them at 771 until the end of Mar 2007.

[Bearintheair]

And from Mk 4s at 772

[Waspie41]

Both 771's HAR's and 772's SK's had a larger step to allow the diver to stand prior to dispatching into the ogin.

Standard SKD's had no step at the rear cargo door.

[leopold bloom]

Did they ever jump from Seakings?
And from MK 3A.

[bast0n]

Ok then

Which Dilbert got rid of the best piece of kit in the back of an RN SAR aircraft?

Let him be named and shamed!

[david parry]

Think it was the same Gimp, at the 100th year of the FAA, flypast that i attended, who was the steward in the BAE Alliance tent . Said " We will be able to launch the seaboat, instead!!! and the Sea King would be able to provide ample AEW cover on the new carriers:hmm::hmm:

[bast0n]

David P

Oh dear oh dear.........................does he have any influence nowadays and how can we sort him out?

[david parry]

Another Shinny A**E who hasnt a Scooby doo:hmm: The Navy Net: Rum Ration Forums Royal Navy Branches The Fleet Air Arm Search and rescue info (http://www.navy-net.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/p=366424.html)

[Marcantilan]

Bast0n,

Not me Chief: RN only, thanks :ok: And that's a much later SK ditching, 6 blade TR. This was our attempt where the flot gear worked for a few hours:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1249-1/824+Sea+King+051+ditched+and+inverted.jpg


Any info about this accident?

[DODGYOLDFART]

The Belvedere did valiant service with 26 Sqn in both Aden and North Borneo, much loved/hated by ground and aircrew alike. I seem to remember that the main cause of problems arose from either the gearbox or drive train. The designers of the Chinook learned a lot from the Belvedere and particularly how to get it right.

[Doctor Cruces]

Psst - Landroger: Belvedere = same engine(s) as Wessie 1 & 3, ie Napier Gazelle. Turboshaft, which I'm pretty sure uses a turbine, no?

Anyway, any fule kno that an AB205 beats any Wessex in the mountains any day. And my little Bolkow these days ain't too bad - pity it can't lift much more than half a verbal message when compared to my luvverly Chinook.

The plan was to power them as you suggest, but that development was cancelled (IIRC) and they continued with Bristol Leonides engines.

[Fareastdriver]

but that development was cancelled (IIRC) and they continued with Bristol Leonides engines.

????????????????? All the Belvederes I saw were powered by Gazelles. They could, and would, if necessary, be recovered back to base on one engine without any trouble. The advantage the Belvedere had over the Chinook was that the fore and aft rotors were sufficiently stepped so as not to interfere with each other. Each engine drove it's own gearbox with a synchro shaft to keep them together and to transmit power from a live engine to both gearboxes.

I believe one had a synchro shaft failure in Aden and after the aircraft was landed the noise from the blades belting each other only came during shutdown..

[TEEEJ]

Any info about this accident?

Is it Sea King HAS2A, serial XV698?

11/07/1982 XV698 351 Sea King HAS2A 824 NAS No2 engine failed while transferring supplies from RFA Fort George to Leeds Castle in the South Atlantic. It ditched in the heavy swell, turned over and sank in 2,000 meters of water and was not recovered. The crew escaped safely

http://www.ukserials.com/images/losses/xv698.jpg

From

http://www.ukserials.com/losses-1982.htm

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/73315

[Herod]

Well, TEEEJ, that answers the original question. A Wessex with an engine failure would have just carried on. see my post #24.

[NutLoose]

An aspect of the Wessex that has always intrigued me compared to current generation helicopters is that the CG was presumably much lower, as the engines were mounted well below the rotor plane.

I expect that greatly reduced roll and pitch rates, but presumably it made deck landings easier?

Well there was the still borne Westminster, that was a Wessex with the engines on the roof rather like a Sea King come Wessex.

https://www.google.com/search?q=westland%20westminster&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b#imgrc=3XblL9tpiD9qDM:

[AndySmith]

Is it Sea King HAS2A, serial XV698?



http://www.ukserials.com/images/losses/xv698.jpg

From

UK Military Aircraft Losses (http://www.ukserials.com/losses-1982.htm)

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/73315
These can't be the same incident. The Marcantillan photo has normal white lettering and roundel, whilst the TEEJ photo from south atlantic has the hastily applied black lettering and low vis roundel.

[ex82watcher]

When I was gliding with the ATC in the early 70's,there was a Belvedere on the Fire-dump at RAF Ternhill,waiting to be set-alight,along with a Wessex,and a Vampire T11,that had already been burned.During breaks from the flying programme,we cadets used to go and clamber over these in the hope of 'liberating' any loose bits.I rather regret to say that I still have the rotor-brake handle from the Belvedere,as the aircraft is now I believe in a museum.

[air pig]

And in 2019 when you need a job doing, they call in the Chinook force.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/raf-chinook-action-over-crisis-16686403

[Cornish Jack]

Re. the original question, Herod got it right!! My helo time started with the Sycamore and finished with the Lynx via Whirly 7 and 10, Kaman Husky, Wessi 2 and 3, Sioux, Puma, Gazelle and Sea King. Mainly S&R and then trials. Some stick time on all of them except the Husky and the Whirlwind 10 was way ahead on enjoyment. The Wessex was undoubtedly ahead on the 'Brick outbuilding' scale but I didn't like the SAS and it concluded my rotary time with a long North Sea crossing on one engine, unextinguishable fire light on the other, in the middle of a winter storm, to land on North Foreland and be hosed down (aircraft AND crew!) by the local Fire Brigade! ... long story! Did the Sea King winch trials and could never understand the radar gearbox 'shadow' just where you needed to look or the cabin door opening forward on a helo that hovered tail down! So, it had a lock pin but not ideal. One reported oddity was the suggestion that if faced with gear lowering problems, operating the windscreen wipers might help! No Ops time on it and the crews seem to like it but ... no, Whirly 10 it is!:D

[Marcantilan]

Hello TEEEJ. I am with Andy. I don´t think the SK upside down was related with Op Corporate.

The photo, now in full colour, of the same incident of 824 NAS Sea King:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/550x282/sea_king_brit_malvinas_da546c87299c1a996fe3186cfd44bd3f6dea8 d05.jpg

Note the roundel without the white.

Mistery remains!

Thanks a lot!

[Archimedes]

Hello TEEEJ. I am with Andy. I don´t think the SK upside down was related with Op Corporate.

The photo, now in full colour, of the same incident of 824 NAS Sea King:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/550x282/sea_king_brit_malvinas_da546c87299c1a996fe3186cfd44bd3f6dea8 d05.jpg

Note the roundel without the white.

Mistery remains!

Thanks a lot!

John put a series of photos online somewhere, including recovery - an 824 NAS cab, number 051.

ETA - Ah, here we are (scroll down for ditched SK)

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/v/navy_photos/sea_king/?g2_navId=xudddctumain.php

[Marcantilan]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/733x511/824_sea_king_051_recovery_with_fire_fighting_foam_hanging_fr om_crane_b0bd8afd8ae3e4bc33e676277f912277bb9868dc.jpg
It looks like if you are a Sea King and you have side number 51, you are going to ditch some time or other...

[TEEEJ]

These can't be the same incident. The Marcantillan photo has normal white lettering and roundel, whilst the TEEJ photo from south atlantic has the hastily applied black lettering and low vis roundel.

Thanks, Andy!

I had another search and found that the serial was XV699.

XV699 as 051 on 824NAS

From

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/569210-bent-airframes.html#post9148366

https://www.helis.com/database/cn/14713/

It appears that XV699 made an emergency landing during a rescue mission on 16th January 1974.

In high winds and mountainous seas, the Danish freighter ss Merc Entrerprise carrying a grain cargo, foundered south of Plymouth. Lands End Radio received the distress call and because it was beyond the range of the based Whirlwind HAR.9 SAR Flt, an ad hoc group of available Sea Kings were mobilised from RNAS Culdrose to meet the only recently established (1973) SAR commitment.

Apart from the gallant rescue of survivors and the tragic loss of life, a valuable lesson learned was the threat posed by salt ingestion into the Gnome engines, as both 89 55 and XV699 ended up making hazardous emergency landings, short of Culdrose

https://www.helis.com/database/ops/162-Rescue-from-ss-Merc-Enterprise/

[John Eacott]

Just to correct any detective work here, the 051/XV699 ditching was off Ark Royal (R09) 19th March 1975 sometime early in the morning: about 01:00 IIRC. There is a short mention in 76fan posts here (https://www.pprune.org/9762752-post64.html). I was over the top for a few hours with jerry G , and flew 051 only 2 days earlier when I had an engine fire and made a night SE recovery at the end of a 4:05 hour sortie :hmm:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1267-1/824+Sea+King+051+recovery+with+fire+fighting+foam+overall.jp g

[John Eacott]

And a little dit post recovery: the airframe was given a thorough fresh water wash, and major black boxes removed, dunked in fresh water then WD40. One fairly expensive box was brought out by a senior rate, who gave it to a nearby seaman with the instruction 'go and dunk this in the water, laddie'.

Laddie was back fairly quickly and asked where was the box: "I did what you said, Chief, and dunked it". Unfortunately the Caribbean wasn't quite what Chiefy had in mind :eek:

[TEEEJ]

Thanks for the update, John. :ok:

[Fareastdriver]

It looks as if it has flown through a parachute.

[Lyneham Lad]

The Belvedere did valiant service with 26 Sqn in both Aden and North Borneo, much loved/hated by ground and aircrew alike. I seem to remember that the main cause of problems arose from either the gearbox or drive train. The designers of the Chinook learned a lot from the Belvedere and particularly how to get it right.

If by North Borneo you mean Kuching, that was a detachment from 66 Sqn, RAF Seletar. As a spotty SAC AMechA, new in theatre and still with white knees and standard issue KD, I was detached from 390 MU, Seletar to help the 66 Sqn guys catch up on modifications and some Cat 2 Assist repairs. A story (possibly apocryphal) that greeted us on our first briefing was about an engine start where all three cartridges fired simultaneously, blasting the holder off the engine, across the space between engine and fuselage where its progress was stopped when it smacked into the nicely aligned Avpin tank...
Apparently for a while afterwards it was not unknown for engine starts to be carried out perched on the cockpit sill, one leg and one leg on the spindly ladder, ready for a hasty exit.

A very interest five weeks of of hard work / hard play.

[Marcantilan]

Just to correct any detective work here, the 051/XV699 ditching was off Ark Royal (R09) 19th March 1975 sometime early in the morning: about 01:00 IIRC. There is a short mention in 76fan posts here (https://www.pprune.org/9762752-post64.html). I was over the top for a few hours with jerry G , and flew 051 only 2 days earlier when I had an engine fire and made a night SE recovery at the end of a 4:05 hour sortie :hmm:

http://www.eacott.com.au/gallery/d/1267-1/824+Sea+King+051+recovery+with+fire+fighting+foam+overall.jp g

Thanks for the information! It looks like 51 was a salt water fan.

[Fitter2]

If by North Borneo you mean Kuching, that was a detachment from 66 Sqn, RAF Seletar.

There was indeed, although their serviceability was a bit iffy at times. Once they even got 4 of the detachment airborne at the same time. We were impressed. Their Avpin starter fires were a problem we shared on the other side of the airfield with 60 Sqn. Javelins..... (Avpin was, however, an excellent scorpion pesticide.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1376x875/belvederes_medium_b515ee0faf460008ac486989186db01e2b5efeff.j pg

[teeteringhead]

Have come to this thread a little late, having been away on hols. A couple or three points on previous posts:

Sycamore collective: The collective (only one) was indeed central, but conventionally fore and aft. The throttle was "athwartships" kind of crossing the T at the end of the collective. Still required much manual dexterity from LHS.

Wessex 2/5 single engine performance: Not o much great engines as a a cr@ppy coupling gearbox. Single engine torque limit 2,700 ft lbs, train engine 3,200 ft lbs. You the math(s)

Belvedere life: My understanding is that the Belvedere airframe was lifed at 1500 hours due to (unforeseen) bending loads on the frame. Another procurement triumph: originally intended for the RN with an underslung (from 2 hooks) torpedo, but was too big for carrier lifts! Also accounts for the high undercarriage (and many sprained pongo ankles).