View Full Version : Everyone missed my point.....

6th Mar 2010, 06:41

The redundancies are confirmed. Talk to AIPA if you dont believe me.

To everyone else:

I actually have no problem with going beyond 60 in normal circumstances. I understand many have no choice because of bad luck with women or money


Many are flying on just for greed. This would be ok in normal times, but we are looking at a significant number of layoffs this year.

All I can say is if you can afford to go, then go.

No arguments about experience ect ect


6th Mar 2010, 06:52
The redundancies are confirmed.

Utter rubbish. All this type of vexatious post does is to cause junior crew members untold stress on a weekend where they are unable to seek that confirmation you have suggested.

According to one of the fleet managers a couple of weeks ago there is no chance of redundancies at this stage. There are certainly no confirmed redundancies.

The over 60 thing has slid a mass of retirements that were expected a couple of years ago back a few years. That is all.

6th Mar 2010, 06:53
How would you know why they are flying past 60?
Suggestion, pull your head in, or donate half your wage to the people you are so worried about to prove you really are concerned about them and not yourself.

6th Mar 2010, 07:05
What next? Mandatory euthanasia! Shiiiiiiit!

6th Mar 2010, 07:07
Looks like discussion on this issue is like discussion on jetstar being subsidised by mainline - impossible to have a rational argument.

Direct anywhere - The fleet managers said that last year also, then suddenyl we were all on leave and flexi lines to save 9m which was promptly given to Dixon to sort out his tax.

RENUP - I know why a lot of these guys are still flying because I used to fly with them when I was an F/O.

Many of them used to boast about "dying in the seat" before giving up their place to a junior pilot.....

6th Mar 2010, 07:17
Direct anywhere - The fleet managers said that last year also, then suddenyl we were all on leave and flexi lines to save 9m which was promptly given to Dixon to sort out his tax.

Indeed they did. And how many redundancies did we see? And what, pray tell, does Geoff Dixon's tax have to do with the possibility of current Mainline redundancies and the over 60's?

6th Mar 2010, 07:28
It was interesting reading parabellum's comments on the other thread:

... when today's over sixties cut their teeth in aviation there was no such thing as a cadetship...

Many of QF's over 60s are ex cadets. Heaps of them. They served their time as S/Os- many for 12-13 years before spending just 2-5 years as F/Os before upgrading to command in the mid to late '80s.

There was no such thing as 'superannuation', if you wanted a pension you saved it yourself...

Most of QF's over 60s have extremely significant super savings. If they don't then it's because the ex-missus has half.

Finally, the retirement age when we joined was 65 in most airlines and many of us had to stop at 60 when the rules were arbitrarily changed. We lost five years pay and pension as senior captains.

The retirement age in QF when most of our over 60s joined was either 50 or 55. Many of them have had careers extended multiple times.

With those things corrected, it's still their right to continue on. The fact that we have 100+ Captains over 60 (and many on the 744) has certainly changed the dynamic over the last few years and blown out some of the times to promotion accordingly but that's life. I reckon if the market rebounded back to 6000 by the end of the year many of them would go in a hurry. If it doesn't then they're welcome to stay on the international fleets until international law precludes them from operating that type or they can bid back to the 737 and 767 and keep operating until they can no longer hold a medical or pass a sim check.

Personally I think any intention to be rid of S/Os would be extremely short sighted by QF and I'd be surprised if they actively pursued that outcome. That said, it's something to be wary of.

6th Mar 2010, 07:31
All I can say is if you can afford to go, then go.I can't speak for long time Qantas guys, but were I in their position, I think I'd be saying "I'll go when I'm damn well good and ready".

Which is worse, the greed of the old guys who don't want to go, or the ambitious youngsters who will crawl over the heads of their drowning comrades to get the gig?

Greed (if you can call it that, which is debatable) isn't just a vice of the old guys...

Angle of Attack
6th Mar 2010, 07:36
The redundancies are confirmed

Again Can you let me know where you got this info?
My LWOP and leave requests have just been denied so I sort of doubt there is a formal document saying reduncies are imminent.

Iron Bar
6th Mar 2010, 07:56
Keg, come on,

"served their time as SO's"

In the 60's and 70's and bought into Sydney north shore at the same time. My heart bleeds!!!!!! Real hard SO time that. Lets go to Tehran and root ourselves stupid!

"Bid back to the 737 and 767"

Good luck! Many since Stark and Bill? (honest question) can't think of any?

6th Mar 2010, 08:08
Iron bar. Read the comment in context. My point is that most of the over 60s in QF are not the type that parabellum alludes to. Their 'hard yards' weren't slogging it out in GA. It was in the back seat of a 747. I think most people would prefer that to GA.

I don't know of many either. I can't think of many 744 skippers wanting to bid back to the 767/ 737 at age 65. They have that option though and if they want to take it they certainly can.

Iron Bar
6th Mar 2010, 08:12

Oicur, Baron, Tee Emm, Goblin, Metro, and Air Ace . . . . . .


When grumblings of discontent from the junior ranks, who have had all the opportunities you enjoyed pulled out from under them. Become an "industrial action"* will YOU support them?????

*Yes I know, no shit, got to be smarter this time around.

Iron Bar
6th Mar 2010, 08:21
Gotcha, context failure acknowledged.

Given that, remain happy to keep my B58 seat over a 743 jumpseat any day. Rampaging around the world included. Made up for it later . . . . .

6th Mar 2010, 09:21
Sorry Keg and others I wandered off thread. I was commenting on the industry generally rather than specifically QF, I have never responded well to youngsters who thought I was sitting in 'their' seat!;)

Mstr Caution
6th Mar 2010, 10:18
The redundancies are confirmed. Talk to AIPA if you dont believe me.

I believe the term AIPA used last time was "Imminent Redundancies" & that never happened.

Besides why would QF choose to have redundancies now? If they were going to, the best opportunity was last year when the industry was in a worser state of affairs.

1. The Domestic market is picking up.

2. QF has had the hand on the J* lever the last few years, with JB now at Virgin the company (QF) may need to switch gears.

3. The company hasn't activated the MOU for transfer QF to J* yet.

4. QF will avoid redundancies at all costs in an attempt to maintain it's experience base.

5. Polictically - It wouldn't go down well having redundancies in Mainline whilst recruiting at J*.

6. The Mainline EBA is up for negotiations this year.

7. The company doesn't have a timeframe as to when senior crews will elect to retire. As mentioned previously, an upswing in the share market & 100+ guys may walk with minimum notice.


tail wheel
6th Mar 2010, 10:46
Read my post:

1. Your thread contains no news and this is a professional pilot news forum.

2. A number of posts were critical of, or took exception to your appalling suggested discrimination against "senior workers".

Senior workers continue working for many reasons, none of which include the specific intent of keeping you out of their job.

Regardless of one's superannuation and wealth - whether a retiree is self funded or funded by society - there is a significantly greater cost burden on our Australian society when a worker retires. Statistically, if the present retirement age is retained, by 2045 one in three Australians will be retirees, which is economically unsustainable on our Australian society.

In case you missed it, Australia is currently debating an increase in the retirement age to 67 and I suspect within a decade that will further increase to 70.

Learn to live with it dude, don't be in a rush to grab a senior worker's job. He is just as entitled to work as you are - and one day you too may reach the same age.


FRQ Charlie Bravo
6th Mar 2010, 12:47
Everyone missed my point.....

No, you just realised that you sounded like a git and you want to pretend that there were much deeper issues you were highlighting.

Change PPRuNe handles and start over.


6th Mar 2010, 12:48
Mastr caution, you forgot one last point
8. Spoke to Manager in QCC the other day who said that mainline is about to pick up a lot more work because Virgin is going under.

Ahhhh, don't we all remember that one.

Mach E Avelli
6th Mar 2010, 13:50
Hey Mohican I did not miss your point. But I am going to disappoint you. By staying in the game until I am 80, earning a buck and thus not being a burden on my taxpaying offspring or the State in general. At 81 years of age, after a year of retirement and debauchery (continued), hopefully I will get to blow all my ill-gotten superannuation. Then I want to bow out like a true gentleman by being shot by a jealous 35 year old's husband.

40Deg STH
6th Mar 2010, 15:07
Mach E, well said.

I was thinking of retiring from Longhaul at 60, but now seeing how much I can piss Mohiken off, I've decided to stay until 65. Lets hope for RA85 before then though.
We must remember life revolves around Mohiken. I would ask anyone who does not like 65 to hand your resignations in now to take effect on your 55th birthday. That will show the men from the boys!!

I love my job and flying, why should I quit at 65?
I for one will not be retiring at 55 and I'm still with wife number 1 and fly a 747-400 on longhaul.:ok::ok:

I fly because I love it, the fact I can be paid well is just a plus. So I'm staying!!:D