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mohikan
5th Mar 2010, 23:19
It has come to my notice that QF mainline now has nearly 170 pilots over 60 still employed.

For many of these individuals, they cannot afford to retire due to multiple marriages and / or poor financial choices. In this light, there is little choice but for them to continue to work.

However, even if 50% of "the 170" fall into this category, it still leaves a substantial number of Captains flying for greed, hubris, or a combination of both.

Flying over 60 is common now elsewhere in the world. In the US it has become a necessity because non vested pensions were wiped out in the post 9/11 bankruptcy of airlines.

In Qantas however, the situation is different. Superannuation is fully vested, and many, perhaps even the majority of the over 60's are sitting on a bomb of super.

One ex -400 Capt now flying the B737 made more money last year on his 3M+ super pile then he did in salary.

Qantas is looking at redundancies for S/O's this year. Perhaps up to 70 if the unions calculations are correct. Despite a desperate rear guard action by AIPA and senior flight ops management, this is all part of Ian Oldmeadows and Joyce's design, and they can proceed regardless of the relatively small scope of activities that can be taken to prevent occurance.

Whilst I realise that for some of the over 60's, being a Qantas Captain defines them as a human being, its worth considering that they have had a great run in aviation, have superannuation and assets that this current generation of pilots will never see, and the capacity to do some good for their fellow pilots.

Therefore, a message to the 170. If you can afford to retire in the next 12 months then do so. Enjoy the fruits of your hard earned labour and give others a chance to remain employed.

boocs
5th Mar 2010, 23:36
No offence, but get used to it!! These numbers will only continue to grow.

b.

oicur12
5th Mar 2010, 23:39
Mohikan,

Maybe you will turn 60 one day.

The Baron
5th Mar 2010, 23:48
Harden up princess!
That would have to be one of the most self-centered egotistic posts I've seen. Surely, this is a windup, at least I hope so. What's next, pushing the older guys down the stairs?

Tee Emm
5th Mar 2010, 23:54
it still leaves a substantial number of Captains flying for greed, hubris, or a combination of both.Unbelievable comment. Go back to when you first leaned to fly and I bet you were bright-eyed and bushy-tailed eager to leap into the air and enjoy the thrill of solo flight. There are many old pilots who still enjoy their job so much they would happily fly for as long as their licence allows them. In Australia we are fortunate that the regulator has never placed an age forced retirement restriction. The unions and some airlines used to, but that changed over 20 years ago, thank goodness for commonsense. If it bugs you that much, you can always go back to the joys of GA

Do you seriously expect an airline pilot that still enjoys the sight of beautiful sunsets from 35,000 ft and the personal satisfaction of a well flown manual ILS in a crosswind, would walk away from all this just to give up his seat in a gesture of altruistic magnanimity? Methinks you are a little naive in this respect.

The Green Goblin
6th Mar 2010, 00:13
Indeed, old young we all fly for the same reasons and provided the old guys pass the checks and the medicals they have as much right to the seat as the younger blokes next to them.

Perhaps if the younger blokes stopped thinking about 'me' all the time and listened to the old crusty bloke next to them they might learn a thing or two :D

These old blokes may not be as sharp as they used to be but in terms of experience, I'd rather them in the left seat making the calls in an emergency any day.

Baxter Dewall
6th Mar 2010, 01:23
Goblin,

I hear you, BUT that is a very long bow you are drawing there.

Just like there is good and not so good in everything, please don't tell me that just because you are over 60 mandates that you automatically know everything.

CRM old chap! Managing upwards! Use all your available resources at hand.

In the sim, I see many young and outstanding Captains in waiting, while on the other hand quite a few "experienced" ones making it go pear shaped.

Not all the time but it does happen a lot more often than some people realise.:ok:

Metro man
6th Mar 2010, 01:41
Euthanasia for all pilots over 60 who can afford to retire but won't. That'll move things along a bit.:E

I bet mohikan changes his tune as he gets towards the end of his career.

Mr. Hat
6th Mar 2010, 01:52
Err, they're entitled to work for as long as they wish to so long as they meet the standard and pass the medical.

You never know they might actually enjoy the job.

parabellum
6th Mar 2010, 02:07
have superannuation and assets that this current generation of pilots will never see,


You seem to forget Mohikan, (or maybe never knew), that when today's over sixties cut their teeth in aviation there was no such thing as a cadetship or straight onto a jet with 250 hours in the RHS of a commercial airliner. We had to serve our time in very poorly paid jobs, if we could get a job at all, or serve our time in the military.

There was no such thing as 'superannuation', if you wanted a pension you saved it yourself, no help from your company in those days and guess what, one year contracts too, with a pay rise in the second and subsequent years, except you got your notice on the 31st December and a 'new' first year contract on the 1st January, they were the 'lucky' ones, others got laid off.

I won't go on but there were dozens of ways the first ten or fifteen years of salary would be minimal with no perks at all before the chosen few hit the big time and got an airline job. QF SOs laid off now will be first in line for re employment when fortunes change. I put it to you that the current generation of pilots will end up much better off when they reach retirement than today's over sixty's.

Finally, the retirement age when we joined was 65 in most airlines and many of us had to stop at 60 when the rules were arbitrarily changed. We lost five years pay and pension as senior captains.

Brian Abraham
6th Mar 2010, 02:09
Heh mohikan, how about you job share your seat in your shiny aluminium tube and let a lowly GA driver have a taste. You're on big bucks and could afford a salary drop so's a poor below the bread line driver could have a livable wage. No? Didn't really think so.

Lookleft
6th Mar 2010, 02:10
At what point do they decide to call it quits? As someone mentioned this is the new world order with an ever increasing number of aging pilots. It is also unchartered territory. There are plenty of examples where the "system" has failed the industry so the mantra that "as long as they pass the checks and the medicals" suggests that those two criteria are enough to prevent incapacitation or incompetence. I have flown with some very good over 60's but I have flown with more who are hard work and demonstrate that age does indeed weary.

FRQ Charlie Bravo
6th Mar 2010, 02:14
What's next, pushing the older guys down the stairs?
Nah, Mohican is probably trying to change the SOPs so that any pilot over the age of 60 is now required to close the door at Uluru.

FRQ CB

Air Ace
6th Mar 2010, 03:19
What a pathetic, discriminatory attitude!

Some of us work beyond age 60 because we like to work, we enjoy our job, we want to work and we can provide invaluable mentoring to our younger colleagues.

One day you too may turn 60 and I'll bet you won't be vacating your seat just to boost some younger ego!

And what is "News" or even "Rumour" about this thread? Mods should move it .... or better still close it before all the loonies get here! :mad:

Qanchor
6th Mar 2010, 04:01
Hey mohikan, matey!!
I think you missed a wonderful opportunity to say nothing:D

Angle of Attack
6th Mar 2010, 04:25
Qantas is looking at redundancies for S/O's this year. Perhaps up to 70 if the unions calculations are correct

Where and when did you hear this?

Don't worry Mohikan, the change to the over 60 rule has delayed retirements but look on the bright side there will be a time soon when a flood of them retire at once! Just sit on your hands a while yet! :ok:

bagchucka
6th Mar 2010, 04:41
Go back to when you first leaned to fly and I bet you were bright-eyed and bushy-tailed eager to leap into the air and enjoy the thrill of solo flight

And how fast were you taxiing when you first learned to fly Tee Emm? :E:E

The Green Goblin
6th Mar 2010, 04:54
The 70 redundancies will be a scare tactic to get guys across to Jitstar NZ, the Darwin base that no-one wants, or Jitconnect for fear of being beached as :}

tail wheel
6th Mar 2010, 06:21
News? No
Rumours? No
Wind-up? Probably
Problems? Maybe

*CLICK*