Air traffic rule change will cause delays

[FL310]

From <a href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001605187,00.html" target="_blank"> The Times </a>

[eyeinthesky]

Quote:

“We have said to airlines that they can expect some delays for a few days, or possibly a few weeks, because we will reduce the flow of aircraft through some sectors as the centre beds in and the controllers become completely familiar with their new surroundings,” an NATS spokesman said.

Unquote

Strange that, as we have been promised a 30% reduction in traffic initially for the opening of NERC, reducing by 5% every 10 days provided there are no problems. By my reckoning it will therefore take 60 days to get back to full capacity. Delays "for a few days" seems a little optimistic, then!

If you don't have RVSM status from 24th Jan you will be excluded from airspace above FL280. This is a change from the UK at present, where we will try and fit you in if traffic permits.

[FL310]

Non-RVSM in the UK worked almost every time I requested it and even the RVSM levels were allocated, a big thank you for this.

With so many aeroplanes not being able to comply to RVSM I assume that it will be a nightmare to find a "slot" to let others climb or descent through the non-RVSM traffic soon...

Also, looking at the amount of traffic which has to stay below 290, my assumption is that delays caused by airway congestion will be the norm for some time now.

If this all will save money and fuel for the companies is a very interesting point we will see in the very near future....guess I need some more coffee now while waiting for departure slots...

[BEXIL160]

Eyeinthesky is quite right about the reduced sector flows at NERC. I don't think that NATS has been 100% honest with the airlines about the swingeing cuts that WILL be made in UK airspace capacity wef 27th Jan
for a considerable time

NERC will require a 30% reduction in ALL Target sector flows for the FIRST TEN DAYS (possibly reducing to 25%)

Then a 25% reduction for a FURTHER TEN DAYS (possibly 20%)

And then a 20% reduction for the NEXT TEN DAYS and so on.....

So, yes it could take up to SIXTY DAYS for the sectors available at NERC to get to full capacity again.

Further. Due to "Staffing issues" (there aren't enough controllers) it is not possible to open all the NERC sectors anyway. The current set up at LATCC West Drayton has a bigger capacity than Swanwick will have for a LONG TIME

These, folks, are the FACTS. I would suggest that NATS has known this for a long time and has yet to be completely truthful with it's airline customers.

Anybody in Airline ops want to call NATS and check if what I'm saying is true or not? Go ahead. You'll find NATS most evasive.

It gives me no great pleasure to flag this up here, but I would rather the truth be told so than the airlines can hopefully take it into account (they should have been given the info MONTHS AGO).

RGDS BEX

[JuicyLucy]

But BEX we are owned by (some of) the airlines ..surely they are not telling porkies to each other !!!

[BEXIL160]

JL.... NATS is only part- owned by the Airline Group (46%). The other parts are the staff (5%), trying to tell the truth, and the UK Government (49%)whose record on the truth would not bear too close an examination methinks.. particularly by Ms.Dunwoody.

Not that I particularly care about HMG. I do care about the airlines (our customers and colleagues), and the effect the extra flow measures might have on them. I would also add that the blame for this lays firmly at the feet of NATS management, not the poor operational controllers and assistants who will make it work, after a fashion.

Still, being head of this fiasco gets you a CBE apparently. Being actually responsible for realtime ATC gets you a pay freeze and a threat to your pension rights.

Bitter? Me? Just a little.

Rgds BEX

[Steep Approach]

Are we heading for a second "I told you so" in as many months?

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[MACC 29 all the time!!!!]

Hands up everyone that managed to get leave or isn't going to be working on the day!!! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

You guys at LATCC got a sweep going on when the system is going to fall over? <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> (if so can I have 10 past midnight)

[ghost-rider]

Bex ..

Please tell me you're exagerrating ... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

So with Swanwick AND Euro RVSM introduction, we might as well give up now ! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

I presume you guys ( UK ATCs ) will have to trim down the flow rates into Euroland to make RVSM intro easier for them ( Eoro ATCs ) as well as them trimming down themselves, and you trimming down for Swanwick ?? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

So basically ... we're doomed !! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> And I've got about as much chance of getting leave over that period as I have of sleeping with Kate Winslett !

&lt;edited for sp&gt;

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: ghost-rider ]</p>

[BEXIL160]

Ghost Rider.....

Nope, 'fraid not. The introduction of RVSM in EUR will create some extra flow measures. Given that the "early" intoduction of RVSM in the UK last year didn't cause too much disruption I don't think that RVSM is going to be the major issue.

The introduction of Swanwick two days later WILL create serious extra flow control . As stated above, the initial target sector flows (TSFs=capacity) will be reduced by 30% for the first 10 days. Raising capacity will only be done as mentioned.

Please don't be fooled. The introduction of NERC/Swanwick is the big issue for the UK, NOT RVSM in EUR. NATS may well "talk up" the EUR delays while convieniently forgeting the mess of their own making.

Let me again reiterate. It's NOT the controllers and assistants who are responsible for this. Confidence in the NERC systems is not high, largely due to the inadequate training that we have recieved. Nonetheless WE will endeavour to provide the best service possible.

While we are doing that, and you are stuck OG waiting for a slot, our Lords and Masters will be sipping champange and congratulating each other on what a wonderful job they've done...

Knighthood anyone?

Kind rgds BEX

[ghost-rider]

Thanks Bex,

I can feel a bout of flu coming on ... !! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

( only joking nosig :) )

[autobrake3]

What an unbelievable fiasco in these already deeply troubled times for the airlines. I wonder where we'll get shafted from next. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[BEXIL160]

Autobrake3...

I sympathise, really I do. It gives me NO pleasure to be the bearer of bad news, indeed I know of no controller who likes to delay traffic, our whole ethos is about safely getting as many a/c thru the system as possible.

The reason flow restrictions are required for the opening of NERC is SAFETY. The Swanwick systems are extremely complex (at least in comparison to our 1970s vintage system) and nobody is very skilled at using them, yet. The Training for controllers and assistants has been spread over a whole year, with "modules" of between one and three days. Sometimes the gaps between these modules has been as much as 9 weeks, and all the while the people concerned have had to retain competence at LATCC (remember up until Sept 11th we were having the busiest summer EVER so fatigue was already becoming an issue)

The analogy goes like this. Imagine you are flying a BAC111 on IT work during the summer. You are about to convert to the A320, but the only training you get is a couple of days in the sim every six weeks. You've practiced SOME emergencies, but that was 8 weeks ago, and the sim couldn't do all the scenarios anyway. All the while you are having to go back and work flat out on the 111.

On the first day you, your FO, and Cabin Crew are supposed to get in your shiny new A320 and carry fare paying passengers. None of you having EVER flown the real thing or had the benefit of a decent Sim ride. Oh, and you have to "unlearn" all the clockwork BAC111 stuff as well!

You see our problem. Yes, we'll ge used to it and soon we'll wonder what all the fuss was about, but initially, until we get some confidence (competence?) with the new systems we NEED to keep the flow rates right down.

Sorry, but there you have it.

Rgds BEX

[Zulu]

BEXIL, the analogy falls down because you would never convert types like that.
You would train, and train properly, before operating a new type.

Which unfortunately begs the question, as to why haven't NATS done that?

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: Zulu ]</p>

[411A]

Looks like the cock-up in Europe will be almost as bad as a snowy day in the NE USA. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[BEXIL160]

ZULU...

I agree entirely, pilots would not be expected to convert bewteen types without proper training.

The 30% reduction in flow rates is an acknowledgement that controllers in the UK have not been given full and adequate training.

BEX