Australian Army pilot height limit decrease?

[Johnny_Chase]

Anyone know the figures or more about this? Just had my offer rescinded due to my above average height. What about current pilots?

[zhishengji751]

From the ADF site:

Height Aviation Class 1:

* Height - minimum 163 and maximum 193cm;
* Sitting Height - maximum 100cm;
* Buttock to knee length - maximum 67cm; and
* Buttock to heel length - maximum 122cm.

[Johnny_Chase]

Thanks heaps for the cut and paste mate, but....

I received an aviation cadetship offer from RMC-A yesterday, accepted, only to be called today to be told I'm no longer Class 1 medically fit as I'm outside the new height restrictions as set by the Chief of Army.

I'm well inside those height ranges posted, but wondering if any current Army pilots have been affected by the new limits?

[Doors Off]

mate, do not give up without a fight. Surely you entered the recruitment process prior to the "goal post" shift, it will be the first of many "goal post" shifts, but it is worth it.

[Johnny_Chase]

Absolutely it's worth a fight!

I entered the recruitment process over 12 months ago. However, should I pass BFTS and chopper training on the Kiowa, I may be assigned to a desk for the next 10 years of my career because it's deemed I can't complete a conversion on the Tiger or MRH-90. (Not sure which variant , or both, are deemed too tight for my frame). They must make them bigger in the US!

[Captain Sand Dune]

JC,

1. Just out of interest, what is the new height limit?
2. Were you given a reason for the change?
3. When you were told you no longer had a valid medical due height, did you get this in writing, or were you given a reference?

should I pass BFTS and chopper training on the Kiowa, I may be assigned to a desk for the next 10 years of my career because it's deemed I can't complete a conversion on the Tiger or MRH-90.

The Army does fly other types mate. The Blackhawk and Chinook drivers are doing some pretty cool stuff at the moment. Can't see the Tger being involved in the fun for a few years yet.

[Super 64]

Tiger and MRH are not the problem.

If you investigate this a bit I'm quite sure that you will find that Kiowa is the problem. So unless you wish to sit in a holding platoon until the new training helicopter comes online you may need to think things over. They used to be sent to Navy, but I believe that is no longer an option due to FAA having their own considerable problems

I believe there are a couple of guys in your situation that have complete BFTS but cannot go any further due to their above average height, something to do with flying with your head at an angle (due to it hitting the roof of the cab) is not the best thing when flying on goggles.

Have you thought of a career in the NBA?

Cheers

S64

[Trojan1981]

Even if you do get through the shifted goals you may be waiting for some time to get on a course. I spoke to my old Troop Commander last week in Brisbane and he descibed AAvn TC as a "basket case".

[Johnny_Chase]

Thanks for the info guys. New sitting height max is 92cm. I'm 98 or 99 I believe. Any further info or advice at this stage would be more than welcome!

[reacher]

JC - Wait out. I assume that you plan to march into the puzzle palace (RMC) for the July intake? A lot can happen between now and getting to Oakey especially with the paperwork for a cadetship as well as the time spent at Funtroon then BFTS.

Anyone know if the driver for this being the "Super" / refitted Kenny(s) having different height restriction? Or is it back to the old neck tilt/headache OHS chestnut.

[Super 64]

From what I have seen there is no change to head room, just avionics.

Maybe wait for the EC 135 (or whatever is chosen) to come online, you'll probably have that much of a wait anyway given the current state of affairs

S64

[reacher]

Wasn't it that EC 135s were ruled out due to instructors not having Cert IV quals.... Down the track however....

[Hillbilly427]

Recruiting in Brisbane just rang me about this issue. I was scheduled to go to Tamworth next week for selection board, only to have them ring today and say that the army had reduced the sitting height standard for the Kiowa from 100cm to 92cm, which puts me at 97.5 cm out of the running. They said I'm still able to go to my board interview, but i can only be considered for RAAF or Navy. Very unhappy about this, the army is what I really wanted, and it leaves me with only a week to prepare for air force and navy selection. Don't get me wrong, I still want to join the military as a pilot and RAAF or Navy would be great, but I was pretty keen on the green.

Does anyone know if there is any way around this?

[cj0203]

There are no exceptions for us, I'm 96 and everyone on my FSP course is over the new limit. Two of us had already got Army offers then had them canceled. I feel your pain mate, Army helicopters is what I truly wanted and to have this happen right after I get recommended is almost too much dude. One guy on my FSP who got his offer and then canceled is 1cm over the limit. The only guys getting considerations I've heard, are those already at Oakey and are between the 92-95cm range who will be individually tested in the Kiowa for "fitting" . And to rub salt in the wounds, for the last 3 days I've seen Army Kiowa's formation flying around my town. Ouch :{

[Hillbilly427]

Does anyone else think that this will lead to a serious shortage of trainees for the army unless they can do something about this pretty soon? 92cm sitting height seems really low to me

[Trojan1981]

They were already short before this happened. This will just exaserbate the problem.

[flyhigh744]

Unnecessary vulgar language and insult = 3 day site ban.

[BBadanov]

Johnny
This has been the subject of ongoing discussions for at least the last 3 weeks:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/333897-raaf-flight-screening-program-merged-55.html

[Johnny_Chase]

Thanks BB, but check the date this thread was started. Unfortunately for me (fortunately for a shorter candidate who was previously uncompetitive) I was notified of the sitting height limit decrease no more than 24 hours after receiving my letter of offer.

Still waiting on an offer from another service hopefully.

In the meantime, just dreaming of being in the air.....

[herkman]

As a layman looking in, maybe the solution is simple.

We had a good pilot sent to us to fly the C130.

Was a short guy and could not reach the rudder pedals, a quick trip to the safety equipmeny guys and a thinner seat cushion was produced.

Geoff used to come out to fly and we would change the cushion and the problem was gone. An excellent pilot who eventually went to Qantas.

I do not know if it would work in your situation, but sometimes we bring up complicated solutions when simpler is best.

Seems to me that a lot of good talent is going by the board and these helicopters will be disposed of one day.

Regards

Col

[madmachines]

Johnny,

The only aircraft at the moment to have restrictions on sitting height is the Kiowa. There are no restrictions on the tiger, chooks, blackhawk or mrh90. The issue was discovered by Canadian pilots after they had complained about back problems which led to a study being performed. 96cm is the actual cut off sitting height but the Australian Army has made it 92cm for new applicants. 96 is ok for the guys already in.

I know a guy who is flying Kiowas at the moment whos sitting height is 99cm. He has to slouch when he flies due to the helmot which is obviously problem with this aircraft.

Your best option is to try and go GSO which another guy on my flight screening did who was over the height limit.

The Kiowa is due for replacement in the near future so I personally cant see these restictions lasting too long. There are also plenty of instructors over height too.

Tips - Your body will be 1-1.5cm shorter at the end of the day due to impact of just everyday walking. So go for a long run just before med.

[Captain Sand Dune]

The Kiowa is due for replacement in the near future
Riiiight.............:hmm:

[Buster Hyman]

:( This brings back memories...

Was told by RAAF recruiting officer back in the early 80's that my sitting height was above the limit...and that was the end of that career. :sad:

[Captain Sand Dune]

RAAF recruiting officer
At least you dealt with someone in uniform. I pity the young kids today who visit a DFR centre.:ugh:

[MudRat_02]

It has been revised to 95 cm due to the number of applicants excluded by the 92cm rule. Still leaves me out at a touch over 97 :uhoh:

[cj0203]

I was also excluded from this new limit. It happened right about the time the first offers came out which was around Feb. There have been 2 Army intakes since I've been in the pool and I've been made medically unfit for both of them. My file expires before the next Army intake and since it was my first preference I think I'm screwed. I've also been informed my file will not be held in the pool any longer than 12 months even though there has not been an Army intake I'm eligible for. I'm 95cm sitting height which it has been revised to but tough luck for me they say. Devastated is not the word. :ugh:

[kaycee]

Currently the sitting height maximum for a GSO Pilot is:

Height Aviation Class 1:

Height - minimum 163 and maximum 193cm;
Sitting Height - maximum 95cm;
Buttock to knee length - maximum 67cm; and
Buttock to heel length - maximum 122cm.

Does anyone have any information as to whether the sitting height is due to be increased?

[Hempy]

Buster, I was 3 days away from Point Cook
when I got the news...

[Arm out the window]

It would be interesting to know the basis of the various measurement limits - the old Macchi hip to knee one was apparently there to stop you taking your knees out on the canopy bow if you had to eject, but I wonder if some of the reductions are based on WHS 'likelihood of developing back problems and later suing us' type things? (Just conjecture, mind you).

There have certainly been some very tall Kiowa pilots who had to just about fold themselves in half to fit in the machine.

[Hempy]

Funny you should say that, because I met an instructor at CFS fully 2 inches taller than I am..

[Genstabler]

It's a policy change initiated by the bean counters. Reduce the size of the item but keep the price the same. Like Mars Bars.