View Full Version : JSF Delay?
Two-Tone-Blue
2nd Mar 2010, 18:14
Just seen on Fox ... 2 year delay on JSF. ISD now 2013 ... or later?
Don't rush to build those new carriers for the RN?
OMG ... it just gets worse.
[edit = sorry, Mods ... thread merge time, perhaps?]
Thelma Viaduct
2nd Mar 2010, 19:01
What exactly is the surprise???
Show me a military aircraft project that's ever been on time, let alone one with multi-national partners.
The news would be out of the ordinary if the aircraft was on budget and time.
Just a non-story IMO.
Two-Tone-Blue
2nd Mar 2010, 19:06
Non-story except that it's ...
[a] Just released.
[b] Seems to screw MoD plans for FJ replacement and that carrier thing they keep talking about.
Whatever. I agree it's nothing new in the procurement world. It just seems to me that we're in the process of binning kit that F-35 is supposed to either replace or equip. Again, whatever. Trivia, sorry to have mentioned it. :oh:
Wildcat - it flew on time
Thelma Viaduct
2nd Mar 2010, 19:50
MoD plans for FJ replacement will also lapse, just look at FOAS as an example.
It's called kicking the arse out of your capability.
The MoD & treasury will be pleased as it fits in to their incompetence plan perfectly.
Politicians have no interest in the near/medium/far term future. They 'work' from week to week, jumping from lilly pad to lilly pad as each one behind them sinks in turn.
Did you really think it would be on time??? Honestly....
Two-Tone-Blue
2nd Mar 2010, 19:52
In my experience in Whitehall ... Cost = x2, Timescale = +50%.
Depressingly constant as well.
Thelma Viaduct
2nd Mar 2010, 20:05
If you gave the real cost & timescale in your proposal, then you'd never be awarded the contract in the first place.
Someone else with dubious costings will get the job.
Find out how much an aircraft grade fixing costs from say Westlands.
Find out how much that same part cost from Westlands' supplier.
I bet the mark up is 5000% at least.
MightyGem
3rd Mar 2010, 03:44
Show me a military aircraft project that's ever been on time
Apache. The aircraft was delivered on time.
vecvechookattack
3rd Mar 2010, 09:10
Show me a military aircraft project that's ever been on time
Sea King Mk 4 was ahead of time and inside budget.
Wildcat flew on the exact day it was supposed to (just) and will be delivered ahead of schedule and on budget.
However, getting back to the JSF thread - It doesn't help a project when the team leader is sacked and money is withheld from the project. LM are trying to build this with one arm tied behind their back.
Thelma Viaduct
3rd Mar 2010, 16:35
Great examples......Wildcat, 40+ years to improve on an inherently poor design and Sea King, right
How far back in time are you going exactly.
Weigh up your examples with with all the projects that are both over budget and late, wildcat & sea king are just noise in the big scheme of things.
I wouldn't trust the MoD to procure beer from a brewery, It would be flat and london prices before you got to taste it, and then it would give you the ****s.
vecvechookattack
3rd Mar 2010, 16:52
You asked for examples and plenty were provided. If you are not content with the way the DE&S operates and wouldn't trust them to buy beer then what have you done about your concerns? When you wrote to your MP to complain about it what was his/her reply?
glad rag
3rd Mar 2010, 17:04
Why dont we just bite the bullet and buy a wing of Super Hornets instead?
$55 mill ve $80-120 mill
vecvechookattack
3rd Mar 2010, 17:10
Its a better aircraft but it wouldn't be any cheaper. It would cost us that much to bang out of the current programme.
Phoney Tony
3rd Mar 2010, 17:35
Maybe the delay will allow some flex in the budget to allow other important capabilities to slip thru!
vecvechookattack
3rd Mar 2010, 18:52
Yeah.... Like a hefty pay rise....Yippeeee
Sounds like it is a fixwing problem - simple, buy more helicopters and actually use the fixwing we have properly?? - what will the deployed % be when tranche 3 of Typhoon and JSF (notionally) are here? Will it be more than at the moment?
@ GladRag ...Why dont we just bite the bullet and buy a wing of Super Hornets instead?
$55 mill ve $80-120 mill
Because UK Mil plc will NEVER accept anything other than the latest and the best, regardless of cost and the operational requirement?
Apart from the Fairey Swordfish, but then there were different issues at the time. ;)