ScotAirways Redundancies

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Rumours abound of base closures, plus some redundancies and aircraft disposals at ScotAirways (formerly Suckling Airways). Apparently an announcement was made to staff just before Christmas giving proposed details. Anyone wish to comment?
[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: Norman Stanley Fletcher ]

[ 31 December 2001: Message edited by: Norman Stanley Fletcher ]</p>

[Billy Whizz]

Scotair is feeling the pinch in these difficult times. This year the company has closed it's loss making Luton base with mandatory base changes for those who wanted to keep their jobs. Planned expansion into Scotland has not run smoothly. Direct competition with British European from EDI into LCY eventually forced both companies into a code share on the route and Scotair's INS-AMS route was cancelled after a few weeks. I also believe that a second aircraft added at SAM has also been moved away due to poor loads forcing more mandatory base changes for any who want to keep their job. It has also been rumoured for along time that the CBG-AMS route is struggling, but as the company HQ is at Cambridge with a large number of pilots and other employees based there a company relocation would prove costly.
A few FO's have already been made redundant while others pilots have been asked to take unpaid leave or part time contracts. I believe BALPA is currently involved with the company.

[wysiwyg]

Please can we start thinking about the implications of the titles we give to our threads. I clicked on this thread because the title implies that ScotAirways HAVE made redundancies when at present this is not the case. However, many people will not have looked at this thread but seen the title and the message is now implanted that redundancies have been made when it is not yet true. I don't and have never worked for ScotAirways but if I did I would really be pi55ed off that posts without thought could in some small way effect my position.

wizzy

[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: wysiwyg ]</p>

[Billy Whizz]

Scotair have made 2 FO's redundant in the last few months. Other pilots are on un-paid leave.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Wizzy - these are hard facts in that further redundancies have been announced in the last week. More details will follow.

[Airbrake]

This is not an idle rumour as has been suggested but is based on hard fact. An announcement was made just before Christmas by the company to its staff that 2 bases are to close (Aberdeen and Cambridge). Cambridge will continue as 'head office' but not as a flying base. Redundancy notices have already been issued to cabin crew at these bases. In addition, 2 aircraft from the fleet of 9 or 10 will be returned to Dornier ASAP. Finally 10 pilots out of about 60 will be made redundant. These cuts are in addition to those few referred to in the previous posts. The company have entered into a 30 day consultation period with BALPA where various options will be considered. There is some scope for part-time working, pay reductions etc which may change the final numbers, but that is the state of play right now

[christep]

Just like to say what a shame this is - I've only had occasion to use the CBG-AMS run 2 or 3 times over the years, but it was always invaluable when I did, and such a nice way to avoid any of the London airports. Service from Suckling was always nice and friendly (albeit with midget hostesses :) )

[wysiwyg]

Apologies, I stand corrected. You know what this site is like, sometimes we are our own worst enemies. However I see the original posting has subsequently been edited to make it a little less vague.

regards
wizzy

[ 02 January 2002: Message edited by: wysiwyg ]</p>

[Spoonbill]

.A top bunch <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
I hope they pull through.
I nominate the captain who was recently prosecuted for refusing to fill in his census form as the bloke who should negotiate with the banks. Respect to Julian <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> :) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Wizzy, do not worry - I had to edit my first post as I knew the numbers but had to wait until figures were confirmed elsewhere (see Airbrake's post).

[Mister Geezer]

So ABZ to close...not good news - I take it that the LCY route will no longer exist out of ABZ????

If they have/do pull the route then I am not surprised in the slightest. BE operated the route with a 146 and then replaced it with a Dash 8 due to poor loads. Makes sense... well yes to the accountant but it is sheer folly when you downgrade from a jet to a prop when the direct competition (BA, EZY) all use jets. For Mr Businessman who wants to maximize his time, he will get the jet and not the prop that takes longer, which I think has been demonstrated in the loads with BE and now Scot Airways. Shame to see a route struggle in its early days.

MG

[why me?]

MG,

I think you obviously underestimate the performance of the "turbo-prop" which ScotAirways operate. The Do328 is the fastest a/c in its class and during climb can overtake the humble 146 with no problem. It is only at TOC that the jet a/c show their advantage over the Dornier. I doubt there is any impact on the schedule with which JEA used to operate with the 146 and the schedule which SAY operate with the Do328.

GOin' for GOld

[KwikPhix]

[quote]Apparently an announcement was made to staff just before Christmas giving proposed details. <hr></blockquote>
Apparently not, unless I missed it.

[Mister Geezer]

Gold

I agree the Do -328 is fast for its class. I have heard of M.65 in the cruise and that is something not to be laughed at in a prop. I admit the Do -328 does take slightly longer but not by much but we all know that if you give Joe Public a choice of a jet or a turboprop, in most cases the jet will be the preferred option even though the turboprop will do the same job just as well. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[The Guvnor]

From today's Scotsman:

[quote]Inverness loses air link to London

John Ross


A NEW air service between Inverness and London, which was launched four months ago, is to be suspended indefinitely from this weekend because of poor passenger numbers and a lack of revenue.

Cambridge-based ScotAirways introduced new weekday and Sunday services from the Highland capital to London City airport on 10 September, with weekday flights between Inverness and Amsterdam Schipol.

The Amsterdam link was suspended indefinitely following the terrorist attacks in the US just 24 hours after the launch. The company announced yesterday the London service is also being mothballed, although it has not severed the link altogether.

Gerry Froggett, ScotAirways commercial manager, said: "We are suspending the Inverness-London City service from Sunday as a result of the trading conditions we are finding at the moment.

"Both the numbers we were carrying and the revenue we received per passenger was not at the levels we would have liked to have seen it at.

"It is an increasingly difficult time for airlines to launch new things and we launched the service on 10 September, so it did not have the greatest start date given what happened 24 hours later.

"Had it been normal times I am sure we would have seen Inverness-London City as being a great success. New routes are always a big drain on resources of airlines and in the current climate this is not a drain on resources which we can continue to sustain."

He said the situation will be kept under review. ScotAirways, which has the Stagecoach millionaires Brian Souter and Ann Gloag as shareholders, were using 31-seat aircraft on the flights which, it was hoped, would increase from once a day to up to four times a day.<hr></blockquote>

[Airbrake]

Whilst the Do328 may be a quick turbo prop it is not quicker than a 146. It climbs at 200knts, it will cruise at about M.53 at FL310 and has a VNo of 270knts which will lead to the speed horn sounding continuously, leading most crews to fly at 260knts. The 146 is quicker in all segments accept the last 15 miles when you can leave the Dorniers speed higher until much later, like any other turbo prop. I have flown both, the Dornier has the best flight deck but for speed and pax comfort the 146 has the edge, although the time difference is only 10 mins at best from EDI/GLA into City.

[LGW Vulture]

Also bad news for Cambridge, which is / was planning to build a new terminal to improve its image, and not before time.

Trust Cambridge, after years of talking about something, they finally seem to be serious, when the airline pulls the plug.

I know Stansted is just down the road and the Lo cost boys rule big time, but Cambridge is the UK's richest area and it cannot be too long before someone grasps the nettle and makes it a huge success. Probably the Sucklings just ran out of patience?!?!

Yes, we all know Marshalls move slowly, snail-like in fact, but it would be great to see it develop as it really should.

Chicken and egg situation with airline / airport expansion i.e. who would move first, but now it looks like we're left with only the coop.

[flypastpastfast]

This is a real shame. Scotairways are really good. A bit of stuff and nonsense about Dorniers versus 146, the scheduled difference is very small, and would only be significant on a longer flight. I think the Dorniers are more comfortable and the staff better than on Brit European.

[FI]

I have heard that the terminal at Cambridge WILL go ahead as planned. There are planty of other people in the wings who will fill that terminal.

Cambridge is a first class airport, great runway, nav aids and now a new radar, airport director and handling agent. It is just a matter of time until it gets busier, Marshalls have done OK over the last 100 years by taking things slowly.

Watch Cambridge, Stanstead is so busy (and expensive)maybe the next London airport?

Hey, what do I know, I only teach people to fly....

[snooze_ya_lose]

The 146 isn't just a bit quicker, it's a LOT quicker. Normal climb is 280kts (as opposed to 200 or so for the 328), cruise is M0.70 or thereabouts, and it is absolutely no problem to fly the 146 at 250 kts to about 8 miles or so.

Flew on a BE 146 a few months ago on the EDI-LCY sector when I was back in the UK, and wasn't surprised to see a 328 being passed so quickly it seemed to be in reverse at about 80kts!!!

The only thing better on the Dornier is the flight deck... I actually chose BE over ScotAirways as I found the BE cabin staff a lot more friendly!! :)

[VdG]

....... new Terminal at CBG??????

In ten years time the only thing there will be several thousand new houses.

[Capt Crash]

VdG

I wouldn't put money on Cambridge loosing its airport to houses. A growing High Tech city needs good communications - road,rail and air. Luton and Stanstead are getting pretty busy and Biz jets may find it easier to operate out of Cambridge especially if there is a smart new terminal.

As for houses, they are going to build at Oakington and improve the rail network to get people into the new business parks in the west of the city.

[The Guvnor]

More bad news for ScotAirways from today's Scotsman:

[quote]Scotairways to suspend service from Aberdeen

JANE GILLARD Northern Business Reporter


SCOTAIRWAYS is to suspend the operation of its Aberdeen to London City Airport route on Sunday, just two months after taking it over.

The Cambridge-based carrier, which is part-owned by Stagecoach founder Brian Souter and his sister Ann Gloag, has blamed a lack of customers and a downturn in the aviation industry following the 11 September attacks for the termination of the service.

Fares ranged from £99 to £310 return for the three times a day route.

Scotairways commercial manager Jerry Froggett said: "Given the current trading environment for airlines we found it was not viable for us.

"It is very disappointing and we certainly didn’t expect to have to make an announcement to come out of Aberdeen so soon."

The year-old Aberdeen to London City route had been operated by British European before it was taken over by Scotairways at the end of October.

The suspension of the service came just a day after the airline announced it was suspending flights between Inverness and London City after just four months of operation.

Both routes failed to match the success of Scotairways’ flights from Dundee and Edinburgh to London City.

"Everybody is talking about 11 September and it had a very big effect as there is less confidence in the travelling public’s mind at the moment," Froggett said.

He added he was surprised there was not a better use of the service early on.

However he declined to give figures on the number of passengers using the route.

Froggett stressed that the service was being suspended rather than axed at this stage. The suspension of the Scotairways route leaves Aberdeen serviced by easyJet and British Airways.

Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce chief executive Amanda Harvie said the loss of the service should not be blown out of proportion.

Harvie said: "There are 26 flights from Aberdeen to and from London every weekday and a total of 164 per week so I don’t think the business community will see an adverse reaction. There is still frequency and there is still choice."<hr></blockquote>

[topofthemornin]

ABZ, INV, CBG ... and now GLA !

ScotAirways seems to be really pruning back services to keep going at the moment... Glasgow is now rumoured to be next on the list of bases to be made past-tense!

Wish them all the best, and here's hoping that this will suffice!

[LGW Vulture]

Capt Crash

Biz Aviation is exactly one of the markets that could develop @ Cambridge, but until it becomes 24 hrs then the market would not look at it.

What would local residents think of 24 hour ops @ CBG. A long way off unfortunately, I think...

[timsan]

Very sad news for all concerned at Scotairways. I was given my big break into aviation by Roy Suckling. I enjoyed every minute in the Do 328.

As a young first officer, tackling London city's steep approach at night with max crosswind, gave me the sort of grounding that money can not buy. I know I am a better pilot for the time I spent at SAY.

Good luck to all at Scotairways, especially all GLA based crews.

P.S. Dear Norman Stanley Fletcher, give me a call. I do miss the time we spent together in our cell at Barlinny.

[ 06 January 2002: Message edited by: Lenny Godber ]</p>

[WaterMeths]

These are definately uncertain times. Some of us think (hope?) that we are on the climb again from the doom and gloom after Sept 11. However, we then hear about yet another airline with problems. I feel for the guys at Scotair (I know two that left my company for pastures new at Scotair....and mainly due better suited locality). Ironic if crews are now forced to move around to support other bases. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Sad times indeed - notice has been given that GLA closes on 13th Jan as a ScotAirways base (in addition to CBG, INV and ABZ). Remaining bases are SOU, LCY, EDI, DND. GLA aircraft to go to EDI. Bottom 10 of the seniority list to be given notice - this includes the 2 who had already been made redundant. Good luck to all at the company and I hope you see it through.

[Seaton Approach]

Hey, VdG!

Been watching you from further afield that you've been watching your old mob!

Your talents were wasted at SAY and GoldAir! You thrived on the cut-and-thrust of Big-Boy operation at CX; you need to get your hide out here to EK - it's never too late to party!

All the best,

SA.

Like Father, like Son.......

[flite idol]

I thought you chaps were banged up in HMP SLADE.!

[information_alpha]

The lovely D328 was still flying at GLA yesterday.

[Mister Geezer]

With reference to, the ABZ route being chopped. I can understand why the average businessman decided on an alterative carrier. In the local ABZ paper, a local reader wrote in and said that he could fly to LGW with BA for half the price and get a train into the center of London and still arrive into the center on London before he would on the first Scot Airways flight of the day!

Need I say any more?

MG

[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Mister Geezer ]

[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Mister Geezer ]</p>

[PinPusher]

Seaton Approach? Hmmmmm. Would you be somebody who enjoys a green coloured, Red Bull based drink bought in a bar underneath a downtown DXB hotel who has a friend from SA who chundered out the back window of a taxi and over his T-shirt on the way to another bar having scoffed several of the said green coloured drinks??