£30k to spend and how to spend it!

[captain_murray]

Ok so here's how it is!

I'm a 25 year old guy from scotland with around £30k, maybe £35k, to spend on flight training. Looking to give up my current job, superyacht engineer, in the next few months and get into flying.

I currently have zero hours.

At the moment I am think about going to tayside avaiation, only 45 mins from home, and doing ppl, through to commercial. I'm esitmateing the around £26k and think tayside is a good option as I believe it has an excellent reputation. I visited them and they were very helpful showed me a round and had a go on the sim

I have budgeted living expenses for a year so that's sort of my time scale before having to earn some more money!

Any thoughts??

I have also considered the states etc and open to suggestions but a bit concerned about the costs of conversions etc

Finally after compelting up commercial what's the best next step, do and instructor course and gain some hours or go for a instrument rating or what??

Thanks for your sugggestions

[Aerouk]

I would highly recommend you don't get rid of your job until you land an airline job. Things are really tough at the moment!

Airlines aren't recruiting at the moment, and won't be for a couple of years so I would space your flying out and do it part time until things pick up a bit.

Tayside is an excellent organisation to train with, but don't jump into it right away.

[flyboy1818]

Keeping the job is essential even if its on a part time basis, have you considered distance learning? This will take longer but you can continue to keep your job and the economic situation will be much clearer in a few years.


I kept my job throughout training, hard work but worth it if you are prepared to take two years instead of one and keep your current lifestyle e.g flat, holidays, cars etc

[fly_antonov]

I spent 20 seconds on the Tayside website and I will ask you to calculate that 26K again and try to put it on a list here.

I believe that there is something missing in that cost estimate.

If I were you I wouldn' t toss the job.
You can keep working and use your time off to fly.

Why would you do it full time when the biggest part of the training is lost at reading the ATPL books?

I worked 2 jobs, one full time, one part-time while doing my PPL and studying the ATPL books. 12 hours at the jobs, 4 hours of study, 2 hours on the commutes and 6 hours of sleep. No weekends, no parties, no friends.

It was tough but not impossible. Time went by like an express train.

[mad_jock]

Persoanlly I would stay being the super yacht engineer and not jack it in.

Do your PPL where ever you like Inverness and Prestwick have the best wx in Scotland for intensive courses. And first off go to get a class one medical from Gatwick before spending any money on anything else.

After you do that get one of the distance learning packages Oxford, Bristol it makes no odds, which ever one is easy to get to from you current location.

Study them while you are working on your superyacht.

Wait a year and sit the first set of exams see what the market is like.

If it is utterly crap still sit the next lot after another year.

Then come back on here and see what WWW is saying and ask again.

It really is not worth taking things to far until we find out how things play out over the next 2-3 years. Most important thing is timing as well as money in your pocket. Work another couple of years while you start training then when you do start flying you will have a finacial buffer to get you through the first couple of years

[captain_murray]

Wow, as much as I appreciate the advice I wasn’t really asking advice about leaving my job! Been at it for 2.5 years and its getting to the time to leave for various reasons.

I am planning on doing some work when studying, but planning on taking so well deserved time off for a few months while doing my ppl etc As far is it not being a hectic job you really have to ask yourself where that comment comes from?

Ever worked in a job where you don’t get home for over a year or spend a month or two at sea!? Don’t get me wrong I love this job but people shouldn’t comment on what they don’t know, but I guess that just the problem with forums, lots of people not necessary lots of right answers! Ever had to get up in the middle of the night to fix something in a storm in the middle of the Atlantic?

Anyway thanks for the positive advice particularly concerning the current industry employment any more info on peoples experiences with Tayside would be appreciated or suggestions of schools where anyone has had particularly good experiences

thanks Murray

[driftdown]

Captain Murray,

" Ever worked in a job where you don’t get home for over a year or spend a month or two at sea!? Don’t get me wrong I love this job but people shouldn’t comment on what they don’t know, but I guess that just the problem with forums, lots of people not necessary lots of right answers! Ever had to get up in the middle of the night to fix something in a storm in the middle of the Atlantic? "

Not quite the same scenario but in principle yes I have.

There is a lot of good advice on this forum, read it and please absorb it. If your goal is commercial flying then get an initial Class 1 medical first, hopefully all will be ok and from then on get your PPL.

Maybe you have access to agency work and so can go back to sea earn a bit more, study a bit and plan your next move in aviation based on a considered training plan.

At this time, IMO it would seem to be a less than rational act to saddle yourself with vast training debts when the business is in a less than robust state.

Regardless you will do whatever you think is best for your circumstances so I wish you good luck

[wilky]

Capt Murray,

I'm with you, offshore worker too so know what it's like. Cant stand it when i'm at sea! All good the time off and money but hate wasting time away at sea. I also have money saved and i'm doing my PPL at Tayside at Glenrothes, although illness and weather as slowed me up i'm going to get the foot on the gas to get it completed, then hour build and assess the situation a couple of years down the line. I can't compare Tayside to anywhere else, but so far I have had no problems with them friendly, good booking system and availability and excellent instructor. Highly recommend them. Where are you staying when back in Scotland?

[JB007]

but I guess that just the problem with forums, lots of people not necessary lots of right answers!

Captain Murray,

But what you do have in this forum is the odd chaps who are doing the job and know the scoop!

I would take the advice of 'read these pages' - it does have all the answers and in my opinion, the best course of action for you at the moment! Which, to be frank, is stay as an engineer, do not commit to professional pilot training for at least 2 to 3 years...maybe more!

Regardless of how much money you have to complete the training, this industry has nothing to offer low houred/zero experienced Frozen ATPL holders...you will not reach the final step and gain employment...

[XXPLOD]

I'd echo all that's been said. PPL, then perhaps do a night and IMC rating as you build hours whilst doing ATPLs by distance learning. Spend around 18 months doing this. Then re-assess.

I've been through the dilema of a career change. Not likely to be a financially sound move, but never say never. Just started ATPL with CATS distance learning. So far so good and I'll be taking my time over them. First set of exams in July.

If ultimately I stay in my current job, I'll do a CPL which will pave the way to a semi-retirement instructing.

[SloppyJoe]

The early part of lots of flying careers are not all pretty air hostesses and nice hotels. Three months in the sahara without a break, almost every night 11pm or later go flying in a heap, no ac, 100+ in the plane as cannot even use the fan as messes up the data we were getting, near the ITCZ with no radar as also messes up data, rain starts hitting the front, nothing forecast but down we go with max power, started of at about 2000agl, dark as a cave, still going down 1000 feet now, rad atl starts going down fast, must be a dune, hard to hold best angle of climb speed as so gusty, gets to less than 500 then starts to climb again. I can tell you where I would have preferred to be if given the choice of working at night in a storm at sea but hey I dont know that profession so all I can say is where I think I would have preferred to be.

You cannot always chose the job you want in aviation and have to accept whatever it takes to get the experience. Personally at the moment I think you would end up jobless and if you don't have any other skills you will end up either back on a boat with less money or doing some unskilled work for less money than that. But if you dont try you will never know.

[captain_murray]

hi guys,


think it may be time to call this thread finished, kinda gone off on a subject which doesnt really interest me. As much as i appreciate the input, not really interested on finding out whether there's job out there etc.

I have my own plans in terms of employment etc was just keen to find out anyones views on tayside or if there's or places they'd recommmend, and perhaps how they go about spending my cash!

wilky, my parents live in glasgow to was kinda planning on basing there and seeing how it goes, whats your long term plans?

thanks

[paco]

If I had that kind of money, would probably buy an aircraft (cheap is good - it will be disposable) get a PPL, fly my tail off, do the distance learning and sell the aircraft at an appropriate time. Result - lots of P1 and you don't give that lot to a flight school before seeing any results in the shape of a piece of paper.

Good luck

phil

[Sean Dillon]

not really interested on finding out whether there's job out there etc.


Another Lamb to the slaughter...

[fly_antonov]

Whatever, just calculate that 26K over again.

I don' t know how you get to 26K when I get at least 40K from reading the same information that is available to you. Don' t forget to factor in ATPL ground school, hour building and MCC which are not mentionned.

After realising that you are being too optimistic even about cost estimates, perhaps you would listen to everyone' s advice and keep your job after all.

How can people manipulate themselves to this extent? :ok:

[Shiver me timbers!]

So far so good and I'll be taking my time over them. First set of exams in July.

:eek: Hope you're not a football fan! [insert beer and football smilie here] :}

[mad_jock]

Nah bugger it if he has been working in the super yacht world he proberly has contacts and will be sitting in the RHS of a G5 within a couple of years.

Well personally if in Glasgow I would go for the Prestwick Flying Club option. The instructors there are all mostly current commercial Captains and you can't get much higher in the examining world than the resident examiner down there. They have a couple of slab wing PA28's which were pleasant to fly last time I flew them 10 years ago. There are also several sindicates with other more interesting aircraft. the wx down there is way better than for any of the other schools barring Inverness. If you go for PIK make sure you order a new cheque book because from memory it was a cheque for the plane, a cheque for the instructor and a cheque for the airport every time you went flying.

For the CPL/IR the Cadets at Highland turned out pretty good from Tayside. Tayflight you hear really good things about from some people and others have a bit of a personality clash with the instructors. I have flown with the "product" from both schools and they both produce a quality product.

But with all these recomendations you really need to go and visit yourself. It might sound daft but just one instructor leaving can turn a good school into a pants one overnight.

[captain_murray]

hi,

paco/phil, I have considered your option and think i'm going to be looking into that further! boys and toys and all that!

Sean Dillion should really think before speaks!

And finally, mad jock thanks very much for your input! maybe drop you a message sometime if you dont mind!

[cal368]

Capt Murray. I have just recently completed my CPL with Tayflite at Perth and can't recommend them highly enough. My instructor Syd Utting has been fantastic throughout and has a really fantastic attitude towards flying. As for PPL training it can also be done at Perth with ACS flight training in the same building (both organisations are linked). Accommodation is available on the airfield about one minutes walk from the school at the skylodge if you are looking to do a compressed course. I believe it's £16.50 a night B&B if you are staying for 4 consecutive nights. £20 if one night at a time but by all accounts good honest clean digs with en-suite and tv. Swing by and have a chat sometime, friendly bunch of good instructors up there.

Weather at Perth is fairly good normally, comparing it to Cumbernauld anyway. Certainly over the last few weeks we seem to be regularly sitting in a nice hole of fair weather when the rest of the country have been stuffed.

PM me if you have any questions. And good luck with your future ventures.

Cheers, Paul.

[mad_jock]

Nae bother about a PM but I have been out of the training scene for years now apart from a bit of PPL instructing recently.

But just to confirm Syd is a well known gentleman and instructor up North. You won't go far wrong having him as an instructor.

Another keen good instructor for PPL is in Carlisle, Graham Dawson if you want to do an intensive course but don't believe him if he tells you 85kgs for the mass and balance.

Danny and Dave at Highland Aviation up in Inverness of course I would say are excellent as well, but a bit out of they way for you. (please note I have an interest in this school when I am in Britain I instruct for them)

With intensive courses you need to be very switched on to the weather where you choose. PIK and INV are the only ones in Scotland I would look at

But you really do need to go down to Gatwick and get the class 1 out of the way before you spend any money.

[Callsign Kilo]

I echo what is being said here captain murray. If near Glasgow, head down the A77 to Prestwick and find the flying club. Phone before your visit and ask to speak with Stuart (there are two; one is a CAA examiner/inspector, the other is an Aeronautical Engineer - both are experienced GA men) or Steve (again very experienced both Commercially and in GA).

These guys have been around aviation for years and know all the stories! I wouldn't jump in with the 'I want to be an airline pilot' line right away. By all means say that one day you may look towards being paid to fly, however at the moment you were interested in developing some real skills and knowledge that will set on the road to a CPL. At the moment some solid basic training is your priority. Believe me, if you do this at Prestwick, everything else will be a doddle. It is definitely a club worthy of its reputation.

[Aerouk]

I can't fault PIK flying club, they are a great organisation with a lot of fantastic members BUT they're a bit pricey at the moment. I would head to the flight centre get your training done and then move over to the flying club.

The flight centre has a lot of experience also, not the same level but a good amount and a good reputation also.

[yossarian78]

Nothing to compare it with but I did my PPL and Night at tayside and found the instructors and staff to be very helpful. Currently studing ATPL's with CATS and doing some hour building still with TA and intending to go right through with them to CPL. Aircraft are nearly always available and the 2 main training types are the Grob 115D's (2 seat) or PA28-161 Warriors (4 seat) with the Arrow or 2 engine Seneca for the more advanced. There are also no landing fee's with TA at Dundee or Glenrothes and it's a good base once passed for going out to other fields.

As stated before the very 1st thing to do is to get yourself down to Gatwick for the initial Class 1 medical. No point in spending any money to fly professionally if you can't pass this.

Other than that good luck along with the rest off us. :)