HDMI Cables

[Tosh McCaber]

I always thought that digital signals either come through, or, if reception is poor, nothing comes through. So, In HDTV, why would anyone lash out on the absolute best HDMI cable, as opposed to the low priced jobs.

Peronally, I have a low priced (Lidl!) set of HDMI leads, which gives me a really great picture between my Sky HD box and the (46" Panasonic) telly. Would I really notice a huge difference with £80.00 Monster or equal cables??

[al446]

I doubt that you would notice any difference and if you did would be so slight as to make you ponder the law of diminishing returns. Most who fall for this crap manage to convince themselves as they can't get a refund and they don't to appear to be more stupid than wealthy.

[Sprogget]

I find it scandalous that Curry's would relieve you of sixty sheets, with a smile for a 2m hdmi cable with a Belkin stamp on it.

[Simonta]

It certainly can make a difference, and that difference might be quite visible.

You're right in saying it gets there or it doesn't but consider this:

1. The signals are error corrected. If all of your 0s and 1s arrive as they were sent, then the error correction software has nothing to do. If some have changed, then the error corrector has work to do. If a lot have changed, then it has a lot of work to do. HDMI is specified and designed to attempt to deliver the highest possible bandwidth and it's possible that the correction software can't keep up with high numbers of errors.

2. The quality you get is directly proportional to bandwidth. Cheap cables can put a cap on the maximum bandwidth possible. If you're viewing 720p or i with simple Dolby stereo, then you'd need a severe problem for it to become noticeable. However, it you're streaming 1020p with 7.1 channels of DTS, then you can get problems creeping in.

3. Length of the cable is a big factor and above 2 metres, then quality of the cable starts to impact the quality of the result. The average lounge setup won't see any difference but with a home theatre setup, where you may well have runs over 2m, the quality becomes very important.

4. Routing cable close to sources of interference like power supplies and so on can cause problems. I had jittering on my 1020p setup with Bluray. Routing the cable away from a power supply I have for powering a network switch fixed it. FYI, I use cables that IIRC cost £10-£15 and I don't see or hear any issues at all. I've got a couple of test discs that exercise sound and video and all passes OK - or at least, to my eye and ear ;-)

A good analogy is with trying to use a WiFi connection with a weak signal or lots of interference. The bandwidth can drop dramatically. Even though the signal is digital, it's sent over an analogue medium.

Check out this link. Includes a scenario where degredation of picture was very noticeable.

Bottom line, for the lounge with Bluray, HD TV and so on, all on a single rack with all runs less than 2m, no problem with £10 cables but for more complex setups, definitely spend what you can afford.

The Truth About Monster Cable - Cables - Gizmodo (http://gizmodo.com/266616/the-truth-about-monster-cable)

Hope this helps..

[crewmeal]

It certainly can make a difference, and that difference might be quite visible.

Agreed!!! I've got Samsung slimline 40'' LCD hooked up to a Sky HD box and a Sony Blu ray player. I've had picture and sound 'failures' because my cables were next to the 240v leads. I've re-routed them away from the HDMI cables and gone to the '1.3 cable' which is around £10 for a 2 metre length. The difference is really noticable.

This article will help illustrate:

An introduction to HDMI cables - AVReview Features (http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/uan/1107)

[call100]

Unless you have the cash to burn don't buy the top end of the price range. You won't notice any difference.
My cables cost around the £10 - £15 mark, Not the cheapest, but good solid cables. I was given a cable that cost £120 by someone who was emigrating. Anyway, I replaced my humble leads with the new one and......absolutely no difference.
I actually saw an ad for a 3D ready HDMI cable the other day. As far as I know the cable has nothing to do with the 3D effect. I suppose there will always be those out there ready to rip off the uninformed!!

[Simonta]

Most HDMI cables are not 3D ready. To carry 3D, the cable must support HDMI 1.4.

[ORAC]

I actually saw an ad for a 3D ready HDMI cable the other day. As far as I know the cable has nothing to do with the 3D effect. I suppose there will always be those out there ready to rip off the uninformed!!

HDMI 1.4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI): HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009, and Silicon Image expected their first HDMI 1.4 products to sample in the second half of 2009. HDMI 1.4 increases the maximum resolution to 4K × 2K (3840×2160p at 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz and 4096×2160p at 24Hz, which is a resolution used with digital theaters); an HDMI Ethernet Channel, which allows for a 100 Mb/s Ethernet connection between the two HDMI connected devices; and introduces an Audio Return Channel, 3D Over HDMI (HDMI 1.3 devices will only support this for 1080i), a new Micro HDMI Connector, expanded support for color spaces, and an Automotive Connection System.

HDMI 1.4 supports several stereoscopic 3D formats including field alternative (interlaced), frame alternative, frame packing (top-bottom full), line alternative, side-by-side half, side-by-side full, 2D + depth, and 2D + depth + graphics + graphics depth, with additional top/bottom formats to be added in version 1.4a . HDMI 1.4 requires that 3D displays support the frame packing 3D formats at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24.

High Speed HDMI 1.3 cables can support all HDMI 1.4 features except for the HDMI Ethernet Channel.

HDMI 1.4 cables are about the same price as 1.3 (http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductID=1065159&source=froogle). I would expect all the 3D TVs just being released to use/support it. Which means the network socket may disappear from slimline TVs in the expectation that you will use the one on the AV receiver etc.

[Bushfiva]

HDMI 1.3 will do 3D at 1080i, not 1080p. But that's down to the HDMI 1.3 chipset. There's no bandwidth increase between 1.3 and 1.4 cables, just the extra channels such as ethernet. So a good 1.3 cable should work as well as a 1.4 cable (apart from no ethernet). Interestingly, the highest video bandwidth is at 2560x1600, supported by 1.3. 4Kx2K, new to 1.4, is about 20% lower.

Although 1.4 is due "real soon now", a couple of 3D options are delayed until 1.4a. (Er, or not. I can't remember.)

[call100]

Just when you think you've got your head round it!!!!!

I don't see a rush for 3D TV until they get rid of the glasses. I know they are working on this technology and it will be there for future use.
I watched Avatar, as most did, in 3D then in 2D on my TV to be honest, the effect was great in the cinema but I certainly didn't think that 2D version lost that much. I certainly don't think the premium the cinemas are charging is worth it...
And as for 30 or 40 people wearing the glasses in a pub with the beer flowing while watching the world cup...I can't see it being that popular in the long run.

Sorry to go off thread.:}

[green granite]

30 years ago 3D TV was just around the corner, using lasers to project a hologram. :(

[Tone]

This is much the same as the loudspeaker cable scam. People invest in expensive 'low-oxygen' copper wire and become convinced it makes a difference. When offered a listening test between their cables and B&Q low voltage lighting cable they are amazed at the lack of any discernable difference - and it's 1/10 the cost. Sadly, people believe that many products do 'what it says on the tin'

[frostbite]

Anyone for 'Digital Aerials' ?

[mad_jock]

I am glad some else uses 2 core lighting cable.

I have had the piss ripped out of me quite a few times by folk when I admit thats all I use.

My main excuse is I am a TP driver so with the hearing damage I won't hear the difference between 10 quid a meter and 20 quid for a drum cable.

[P.Pilcher]

I remember, way back in 1988 purchasing a set of Quad ELS 63's - the electrostatic speaker of the day. I had to pay full retail for these and their Quad 303 Amplifier, it was impossible to get them for the discounts I had obtained on all my other new Hi-Fi equipment. The retailer delivered them and I spotted in his stationwagon some huge reels of fine multi stranded oxygen free speaker cable. "???" I said. "Oh I thought you may need some help in setting them up."

"Oh no I've bought all the bits and pieces I need." He looked in dismay at my plastic bag containing appropriate lengths of 3kW mains cable.
Said mains cable still connects my ELS 63's to their Quad 303 to this day, with a thinner one actually supplying them with mains. Wife continues to moan about the room it all takes up in the lounge and, together with a Quad overhaul a few years ago, they still sound Beautiful!
At the time I got so worried that my basic electrical principals (which I learned and used to get me a degree in electronics in the mid 60's) were adrift because of this rubbish about multistrand oxygen free cabling, that I telephoned Quad's service department. "Oh no," I was assured, "You are absolutely correct. When my colleague goes out on demonstrations he connects our finest loudspeakers up to our latest amplifier by using old electric lawnmower cable!" Anyway, I was also advised that in their service workshop, they have a notice on the wall which states: "Ohm's Law Rules Here."

P.P.

[Keef]

I gave up arguing about snake-oil speaker cable years ago. Many people have told me they can hear the difference between "ordinary" O2-free cable and the same with the strands woven in various patterns.

There's a different version of Ohm's law for Hi-Fi junkies, I fear. They also think a few millihenries of inductance or a few pF of capacitance will make an audible difference at 15kHz - and can hear it.

I use 230 volt lighting flex to connect my B&W speakers to the Quad 33/303 and don't plan on changing anything.

[Loose rivets]

I'm still not sure if folk that used to pay 500 quid* for a needle, needed their brains testing. As one who has noise damaged hearing, I'm still very critical about the tuning of a piano, and indeed the quality of the instrument, and all of this with a high-end limit of c 3,000 hz.

There has to be more to it than the simple gathering of frequencies and directing them down one's lug-ole. Holographic clouds of sound? Super-simulation in the brain? Dunno, but it doesn't make sense that I can hear what I do.



(*in the days when that was two or three weeks wages.)

[Avtrician]

I love the debate over O2 cable and 2core mains flex. I once demonstrated the how it was rot by opening the back of the expensive speaker and showing that the connection from the Gold Plated connector to the speaker was about .5mm hook up wire not 8mm O2 granulatedchainlinkedmagicstuff, and that the wire on the speaker was about the same as well. Doesnt matter tho cos it still sounds better.:ugh::ugh::ugh: I guess if you spend $500 per 25cm for the stuff it must be good...:8:8