Redeye Flights

[The Sleeping Pax]

Maybe a very old topic but maybe there will be a few new answers.
Why is it that so many intercontinental flights are overnight flights? Surely Flight crew are not at their best to fly overnight.
No matter how much "rest" the flight crew get they will not be in a good position to fly compared to a daytime flight. As to myself who likes a good sleep on a flight, I'd much rather travel long distance to my business meetings during the daytime and have a good nights rest in a decent hotel and be able to prepare for meetings well rested. What is the criteria used by airlines to justify Redeye flights?

[GalleyWench]

Sleeping, Just a guess but could it be a combination of connecting pax and better use of aircraft. I suppose it depends on between which continents you are referring to. I work Eur/US long haul so can comment only on that. Our flights leave midday to fly to the US, sit for a few hours then fly back overnight to Europe.They sit a few hours there, then back to the states. No long extended sits except when they are pulled out of service for their heavy maintenance checks. We do have one flight that operates as you say you like to travel, leaving in the early AM and arriving that same day. The reason there is only one flight like that is because it is expensive to overnight the jet at Heathrow and no connecting pax can fly on this flight. Many of your travelers on any given flight are connecting onward so this may necessitate the overnight flights. I wholeheartedly agree that we are not at our peak on overnight flights. There is no way around this and I suppose all crew would laugh at the suggestion that the company build our timetable for what is best for the crew.

[Land After]

Q. Why do most US flights leave Europe around 10-14:00 and most US leave late PM? (Apart from the logistics of the turnaround of the return leg).

Why don't we get night flights to the US?

[???]

The reason you don't get night flights to the usa from gb is simple:

take off: 23:00 gmt (say)
arrive: 07:00 gmt / 02:00 local

arriving at 2am in the morning - are you sure you want to do that - then find your ground transportation, hotel etc. - even if the airport was open....

[Land After]

Fair point for East Coast, but I mainly fly to SFO/LAX. Flight time is ca. 11.5 hrs, time is difference is -8 Hrs, giving a +3.5hrs delta on GMT. So why can't I fly out of the UK at around 6pm, arriving US around 9pm, when people are awake?

[BRUpax]

LAND AFTER: The first flight out of LON to LAX leaves at 0930. The last (Air New Zealand) at 1625. That's not too far off 1800. In any case GalleyWench is right. It all comes down to maximum aircraft utilization and connecting pax. Why have two aircraft spending 9 to 12 hours on the ground each when you can use just the one inside a 24 hour period.

Incidentally, the first out of LON to NYC is at 0800 and the last at 2030! And finally, if you take the 1800 UA to JFK you can connect with a DL flight to LAX, arriving at 0105!!

[Lurk R]

Recently I saw in a magazine a small diagram which showed 3 horizontal timelines depicting Heathrow, Singapore and Sydney. Relevant curfew times for the airports were shaded out resulting in a very small allowable window for flights between London and Sydney (and vice versa). This of course resulted in flights arriving or departing at pretty ungodly hours!!! Just another consideration I suppose.

[The Sleeping Pax]

I was thinking of Flights to and from UK to BKK and other points to SE Asia/Far East/ Australasia. Africa to Europe/SE Asia. US to Europe/ Mid East. Mid East to anywhere a distance away. Far East to US etc. It seems to me that it's not always due to a aeroplane leaving base! All flights from the US to Europe leave and fly red eye, no matter where they are based. It also seems that West to East and South to North Flights are redeye. I realise it's the way the world turns. Airlines are constantly after more and more business passengers such as myself. We help make the profit. For example, I work 8 hours in my Abu Dhabi Branch office and then need to travel to a meeting in say London, Bangkok or Tokyo. All my flight options are Redeye. A recent visit to Accra, Lome and Lagos, a return to Europe? All options are Redeye. Jo'burg to SIN, DXB, HKG....? You guessed it. Redeye. I get to my regional office on arrival at say 6 or 7am. I am wrecked. Unable to prepare for meetings that same day having tried my best to rest and relax. A daytime flight and rest would be far better. Sigh! I wish for Concorde and a newer SST! Flying everywhere. It has to be the only answer.

[This message has been edited by The Sleeping Pax (edited 20 October 2000).]

[SLF]

As an irregular long haul pax, I prefer night flights - I sleep pretty well, lose little working time travelling and don't have to watch the Bond movie for the nth time! :)

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29A please!

[cossack]

Somebody more familiar with Oceanic ATC may be able to confirm this theory.

Most flights eastbound across the Atlantic leave the US in the evening (US time) and arrive in Europe early morning (Europe time). They then start the return journey in the late morning/afternoon.

This "consensus flying" allows most of the traffic to get their reqested route and/or level for the crossing. If it were a free for all with traffic coming and going all day and night, it would be much more difficult to accomodate the number of flights presently flying oceanic without a more restrictive use of levels and tracks.

If you're going against the flow you're more likely, IMHO, not to get the track or level you really want.