Just Jane to Fly Again in Two Years

[soddim]

BBC Radio Lincolnshire this morning ran an interview with Just Jane's owners, Harold and Fred Panton who confirmed their intention to get Just Jane flying again in two years time.

Two Lancasters flying from Lincolnshire - wonderful for Bomber County.

[treadigraph]

Really excellent news - there was some talk a little while back about four Merlins being prepared for a multi-engined project in Britain and speculation that Just Jane might be the aeroplane in question!

[soddim]

It probably was. Harold said today that they had received one replacement engine and expected another this week.

I wish them well with this ambitious project - when it first flies there will be many witnesses with tears in their eyes.

What a tribute to their brother.

[JEM60]

'Aeroplane' did an article on Maurice Hammond a couple of months ago. Hammond, who owns two P.51s, is also an engine builder, and let slip that four Merlins were being delivered for a four engined bomber project. Just Jane was, of course, the only candidate. Great news.

[Mandator]

Sorry, I though it was a couple from Glos which won £56m on the Euromillions last weekend.

I think this is all fanciful thinking. Who is going to underwrite the design of the Lancaster so that the CAA will be prepared to consider it for the grant of a Permit to Fly? I bet BAE Systems will not be prepared to do so and we know that the Vulcan had to get Marshalls to take on that role otherwise it would never have flown again. How many millions has the Vulcan consumed and how many millions will NX611 require before it can be demonstrated to the CAA that it is airworthy?

Unless a money is no object sugar daddy has been found, reality suggests that this is a non-starter.

[Dr Jekyll]

It's a far les complex aircraft than the Vulcan so won't require the same level of support. After all the CAA are happy for Sally B to have a permit.

There is no way the owners would have got to the stage of buying Merlins without checking this.

[treadigraph]

The BBMF have operated PA474 for more than 40 years without a significant incident or problem that I can recall, although I think she was re-sparred a few years ago.

Just Jane flew back from Down Under as G-ASXX in the 1960s and did a few airshows as such; also Strathallan's Lanc flew across the pond as G-BCOH in the 1970s - she was badly damaged in the hangar roof collapse at Woodford during airworthy restoration to fly in the 1980s for Charles Church. Doug Arnold also registered G-LANC for rebuild to fly, although she is now a static exhibit at Duxford. So it's not without precedent and wouldn't the earlier operations confer some sort of Grandfather rights on the type?

Provided the Pantons can tick the CAA's engineering boxes and are happy to finance it, then why not?

JEM60, that was it! Speculation was probably on Flypast site (before I even read the article).

[Dop]

I wonder if they got a healthy donation from Peter Jackson regarding the new Dambusters movie? He is something of a historic aviation supporter and did visit a few times, apparently.

[JEM60]

DOP.
Highly likely that Peter Jackson is involved. I understand that he was wanting to buy Just Jane, for the filming, but the Panton's wanted to retain ownership for their obvious reasons, so I assume a deal has been struck whereby they keep the aircraft, and he finances the restoration. Speculation, but the money won't be from the Pantons. Contrary to a previous poster, this IS a very realistic restoration to fly in, my opinion, and many others.

[Mandator]

As Treadigraph said:

Provided the Pantons can tick the CAA's engineering boxes and are happy to finance it, then why not?


Exactly what I mean. And fundamental to ticking the CAA's boxes is the provision of type design support, which BAE Systems will not do. Perhaps Marshalls will be as keen to take on design support for the Lancaster as they were for the Vulcan.

Whilst not wanting to wish my life away, I will be most interested to see what 2012 brings.

[bean]

Mandator. Who is providing type support for Sally B or all the civillian registered Spitfires & Hurricanes? Oh & don't forget there is already the precedent of a civillian registered Lancaster flying in Canada.

The Pantons were reported as doing a feasability study a couple of years ago. My betting is that the CAA have already given tentative support.

[Jhieminga]

And fundamental to ticking the CAA's boxes is the provision of type design support, which BAE Systems will not do. Perhaps Marshalls will be as keen to take on design support for the Lancaster as they were for the Vulcan.
As I understand it the level of type design support varies depending on the complexities of the design in question. From CAP 632:
the level of design investigation will be determined by the three groupings, Simple, Intermediate and Complex:
• Simple: single piston engine types.
• Intermediate: multiple piston engine or turbine (single or multiple) engine types with simple mechanical flying controls or with power controls having an independent back-up system which ensures continued safe flight.
• Complex: all other types, in particular those types having features which require a high degree of specialised knowledge and equipment to maintain (e.g. types with no independent backup system to powered flying controls or with autostabilisation
systems or electronic engine controls).And from CAP 733:
The more complex an aircraft is, the greater the level of organisational and operational support that will be required and, unless the CAA agrees alternative provision through a suitably competent design organisation, the continued involvement of the manufacturer will be required.
Although 'continued involvement' is mentioned, the level of support is dependent on the category, and the Lanc will be an 'intermediate' design while the Vulcan is a 'complex' type.

[Mandator]

Oh dear, I do seem to have upset the apple cart!

Well, only time will tell if it as straightforward as everyone thinks to get Just Jane into the air within two years. You know my views concerning the issues affecting the CAA and certification.

Interestingly, I live close to EK and by 2012 I will have retired. The instant I hear JJ in the circuit I will scoot over there and be the first to personally congratulate Fred and Harold on achieving their dream.

[Conc]

Good on them, I wish them all the very best of luck in getting Just Jane into the air where she belongs and hope they will enjoy the terrific support that the Sally B and Vulcan do.

[T-21]

I wish them well also. Don't forget this aircraft sat in the open at Blackpool Airport from 26/6/1970 to Aug 1973 with very little care, suffering the effects of sea air and its corrosive effects. I do hope the wing spars are ok ?

[RedhillPhil]

The BoB one was re-sparred a few years ago with one(s) from a Shackleplane, perhaps there's a few others lying around in a spares box?:ok:

[RedhillPhil]

If and when JJ is flying again wouldn't it be wonderful to get the Canadian one over for a bit. Just imagine a three Lanc flypast!

[R. J. A. Taylor]

This is the official statement issued by the Pantons:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 19th February 2010, 15:09
Official Statement from The Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre-

It is fair to say that we have been considering making moves to fly Avro Lancaster NX611 for some years now; in fact it has been the ultimate ambition of Fred and Harold to complete their fabulous contribution to aviation history and the memory of Bomber Command.
In a recent interview with BBC Radio Lincolnshire Fred has confirmed what, I am sure, many people have been thinking for many years.
It has been our ultimate ambition to be able to restore NX611 to an airworthy condition but also keep her accessible for the general public to enjoy the sights, sounds, smells and atmosphere created by a Lancaster. For us to keep NX611 as a credible 'peoples memorial' to Bomber Command available to many people, no matter their background or financial situation (After all those that flew with Bomber Command came from every imaginable background) we must strike a healthy balance between keeping her in a good condition but also allowing the public to experience her.
As stated by Fred the end goal would be to be able to see NX611 take to the skies once more, but it will by no means be a short road to that end.
We are currently building up a large stores and parts stock ready for the possible 'push' for airworthiness.
The moves we are making- sourcing 4 airworthy engines, acquiring parts from all over the world, undertaking feasibility studies, sourcing AP's and the relevant paperwork - are all working towards enabling us to 'push the button' and let the Lanc feel air under her wheels once more.
There is no funding or involvement from Peter Jackson or the Dambusters film.
As with everything that has been done at the Centre and with the Lancaster the project will be self funded- but if anyone would like to feel that they have helped with keeping NX611 operational you are welcome to make donations.
If we get to the stage that NX611 is airworthy it will undoubtedly be called upon to perform in the air show circuit. There is also great interest and support from BBMF and RAF and I am sure that we will work closely together if NX611 ever goes skyward.

Airworthiness is the ambition and we have now confirmed that, but unfortunately there is much 'ground' work to be done before we make that jump. No move will be made until we are happy that we have built up enough parts and solved all the logistic issues.

Everyone’s support is greatly appreciated. Rest assured that we have the aircrafts best interests first and foremost in our minds. We have not striven for many years to sacrifice our achievements in one fail swoop. NX611 will always remain as a living memorial to Bomber Command; that is the most important duty we perform.

Andrew Panton
Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre



LET'S HOPE THIS WILL SERVE TO SQUASH SOME OF THE RUMOURS .

'Dick'

[gonze]

Maybe if all the people that say it would be great to see JJ fly again went to the Lincs Aviation web site and either made a donation or took out a membership it could help their cause. I did just that even though I live in Perth Western Australia - you are never too far away to help.

[dontdothatbiggles]

Having been inside a stationary Jane, I wonder if they will offer flights in her?

[Dr Jekyll]

Slightly off topic here but where do all these Merlin engines come from for restorations? Is there a cache of new unused ones siting in a Warehouse somewhere? Or are restorers manufacturing new parts and assembling them round a manufacturers data plate?

[Proplinerman]

This talk of Lancasters takes me back to an early 1970s visit to Blackpool, when I saw NX611 parked behind the Air Navigation and Trading hangar (I think). I'm sure I took a photo (on my Kodak Instamatic-all I could afford as a young teenager, as I then was), but sad to say, it didn't show up two years ago when I trawled through all my photos going back to 1971, to scan in all the aircraft ones. If I ever find it, I'll post a link here to it.

Nearly as good however, here is a link to a photo I took of the Strathallan Lancaster in September 1976-I'd graduated to a decent viewfinder camera by then (a Ricoh 500G):

JetPhotos.Net Photo » G-BCOH (CN: 277) Private Avro Lancaster by Michael Blank (http://tinyurl.com/2uaoudt)

[Old-Duffer]

I thought most of East Kirkby had been dug up. A couple of years ago I went for a taxy ride in JJ, with 'Jacko' driving, but is was 100 yards there and back.

Presumably she will be taken somewhere else (Coventry?) where she can be refurbished.

I just hope the survey has been done properly 'cause there are all sorts of gremlins that might be found and CAA are very cautious about old aircraft.

[Brianf127]

Good luck to them, I hope Jane flies again.
I believe Peter Jackson has received at least one of ten full scale replica Lancs. (made in China) for the remake of The Dam Busters.

We have NX622 on static display in Western Australia.
Last year I had the pleasure of showing Bill Kerr through it. He played Micky Martin in the original movie.

[Proplinerman]

"Full scale replica Lancs?!" Hope we can see some pictures of these shortly. Inevitable tho, that they had to be made in China.

[henry crun]

Proplinerman : Here is one photo that was released last year. I have not seen anything since.
Takeoff looms for Dambusters | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/entertainment/2383809/Takeoff-looms/)

[Proplinerman]

Ref my post of August 2010, I've now found, scanned in both photos and uploaded them to Flickr. Here's the link to the first: Lancaster G-ASXX-NX611, Blackpool, 5-5-73e | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/8723775404/)

And the second:

ScanImage 2e | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/48975048@N06/5671082968/)

[Tay Cough]

From the Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre website, Fred Panton sadly passed away on 9th June.

[Wander00]

That's very sad. RIP

[Peter-RB]

What a great shame, so sad at this late stage of activity.

Peter R-B
Lancashire

[Sir George Cayley]

I hope this tragic news actually brings fresh impetus to the project in memory of someone who we all should look up to.

Time to redouble efforts and resolve. Time to fly!

SGC

[rolling20]

I had the pleasure of meeting Fred on a couple of occasions. He was a true gent and very passionate about the Lanc and the Heritage centre. I asked him a while back if he would be going on Just Jane's first flight. 'No!' He replied. But he said with a chuckle and a twinkle in his eye, 'But I might go on the second!' I still laugh now when I think about it. Rest in peace Fred.