You know you're dealing with the DGCA when...

[flyboy_nz]

You know you're dealing with DGCA when you get told, "next time you come, it won't be free."

In regards to the DGCA requirements, a Commerical Pilot wanting to conduct charter must have 500 hrs TT. If he/she wishes to become an instructor, they require 300 PIC. Then, how is a fresh CPL holder going to build up his/her hours to get a job? What is the point of issuing a CPL at 200hrs? Doesn't a Commerical Licence entitle a Pilot to conduct ops for hire or reward?

My next query would be, how is it these fresh CPL holders are getting into the Airlines? I mean, the requirements just for charter and instructing are pretty high, the jet stuff should be really up there. Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying they should put up the ante for the Airlines as well, but look at the contradictions. It is so clear that they have merely picked random numbers and put those as requirements.

I posted this on another thread. I honestly think the entire Indian Aircraft Rules and regulations need to be re-evaluated and customised more for Indian Airspace and in par with ICAO standards.

What's the scene of GA in India?

[jimmygill]

In regards to the DGCA requirements, a Commerical Pilot wanting to conduct charter must have 500 hrs TT. If he/she wishes to become an instructor, they require 300 PIC. Then, how is a fresh CPL holder going to build up his/her hours to get a job? What is the point of issuing a CPL at 200hrs? Doesn't a Commerical Licence entitle a Pilot to conduct ops for hire or reward?


1. The requirement of 500 hrs TT for charter operation is for pilots with foreign licenses under the Foreign Aircrew Temporary Authorisation.

2. The commercial pilots license in India allows a pilot to get compensated for flying. It doesn't allow a pilot to conduct ops for hire or reward, which requires a Scheduled/Non Scheduled Operator approval.


I posted this on another thread. I honestly think the entire Indian Aircraft Rules and regulations need to be re-evaluated and customised more for Indian Airspace and in par with ICAO standards.


The above is most agreeable, but any change is hard to come-by.

[shanx]

@flyboy_nz

In regards to the DGCA requirements, a Commerical Pilot wanting to conduct charter must have 500 hrs TT. If he/she wishes to become an instructor, they require 300 PIC. Then, how is a fresh CPL holder going to build up his/her hours to get a job? What is the point of issuing a CPL at 200hrs? Doesn't a Commerical Licence entitle a Pilot to conduct ops for hire or reward?
It is not just random numbers. Most of the hours requirements have been laid out keeping in mind various ICAO guidelines.

Once a student has earned his/her CPL in India, he/she would pretty much have around 140 hours + of PIC time.

Now, where can you get the remaining 60 hours of PIC time to get an AFIR ?
Well, you either can pay for those hours or get into an agreement with some flying school wherein they pay for your AFI training and the hours requirements and you in turn sign a bond to serve them for a few years as flight instructor.
This is one of the many possible ways.
Other avenues like sky diving flights, scenic tours etc are almost negligible in India. Too insignificant to be bothered about by the average aspirant without much connections.

My next query would be, how is it these fresh CPL holders are getting into the Airlines? I mean, the requirements just for charter and instructing are pretty high, the jet stuff should be really up there. Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying they should put up the ante for the Airlines as well, but look at the contradictions. It is so clear that they have merely picked random numbers and put those as requirements.


The hours requirements for an RHS position in a Jet normally in any other country like the USA, Canada etc would be huge.
However, in India where GA is very small, low time piston engine pilots with CPL only are taken in by the airlines whenever there is a need. (This need arises when the industry is in good health and market conditions are conducive to hiring fresh low time CPL holders .. which in other words means VERY VERY RARELY)

And even after getting into an airline, a low time CPL holder does not straight away jump into the RHS.

He/she has to go through ground school, pass DGCA tech-general and tech-specific papers of aircraft type, do a few hundred hours of Supernumary or Observing flights, then Simulator sessions, LOFT sessions etc.

Even after passing all of the above and being released online as a full fledged first officer, he/she still has a lot of restrictions depending on company policies .. ie. can not be PF for certain critical airports, or during monsoon etc.
Why .,. I even know some junior FOs who have done nothing other than RT and maybe Passenger Announcements in their first 100 odd flights !
Commander takes controls from some rookie pilots routinely during normal line flying due to safety reasons, during approaches and on finals.
Even in the non-critical airfields, many rookie First Officers have not been allowed to do landings by their Commanders.

In short, even after joining an airline, and after becoming a "full feldeged" First Officer, he/she is STILL almost NOTHING as far as being an Airline Pilot is concerned. He/she is still a fresh student who has a long uphill road to travel and learn new things and unlearn a lot of things, along the way.

[jimmygill]

It is not just random numbers. Most of the hours requirements have been laid out keeping in mind various ICAO guidelines.

Once a student has earned his/her CPL in India, he/she would pretty much have around 140 hours + of PIC time.



Some times back DGCA CPL requirement was 250 hrs TT, at that time AFIR PIC requirements was 200 hrs too.

They revised the CPL requirements to 200 hrs TT but 'forgot' revise the AFIR PIC requirement to 150 hrs.

Care is a rare DGCA characteristics.

[itsbrokenagain]

Read the NEW application for the Indian ATPL, as a jet FO you need to sit in the seat for 2500+hrs as only 50% of your FO time counts as your TOTAL time !!! WTF. BUT got and get your FAA ATPL when you hit 1500hrs total and presto you can come back and get a conversion!

And by the way in the USA for single pilot PArt 135 isnt the total time something like 675 hrs! I know its in fact more than India. But in the USA you can be RHS in a jet at 250hrs... and this was common place when there was a shortage of pilots a year plus ago.

I love the DGCA, so explain to me how they can get rid of all the expats with these ATPL requirements???

[shanx]

Jimmygill said :

Some times back DGCA CPL requirement was 250 hrs TT, at that time AFIR PIC requirements was 200 hrs too.

They revised the CPL requirements to 200 hrs TT but 'forgot' revise the AFIR PIC requirement to 150 hrs.

Care is a rare DGCA characteristics.


and there you have it ! ... another valid and genuine demand which can be put forward to the DGCA by unemployed CPL holders wanting to pursue a career in GA as a flight instructor in India ... instead of the ridiculous demands like "please kick out the expats".

[silent_scream]

Greetings Everyone.

The 500 TT for Charter is SINGLE Engine (Read Single Pilot) Operations. You can have 200 Hours and Become a Co-pilot / P2 on any Airplane, Scheduled or Non-Scheduled.

After one has the 500TT and other Aircraft aircraft specific requirements, He/She can get a PIC rating and Start Flying that Aircraft (Below 5700 Kgs) as a Captain even if it is a Multi Pilot. And you do not need a ATPL for this one.

What Shanx says is right. But he forgot to mention that after getting everything out of the way, one could get axed by the management for no fault at all (Eg -Jet, KF, Spicejet).

@itsbrokenagain, It has always been that way, not just here, with the JAA as well.
Many Indian Nationals with Indian CPL's are flying on the FATA as Co-Pilots and Captains with Airlines.

And yes they ain't changing no darn thing. So am off to search for my Integrity.

Silent.

[jimmygill]

The 500 TT for Charter is SINGLE Engine (Read Single Pilot) Operations.

Can you please cite the source for this information?

[flyboy_nz]

And even after getting into an airline, a low time CPL holder does not straight away jump into the RHS.

He/she has to go through ground school, pass DGCA tech-general and tech-specific papers of aircraft type, do a few hundred hours of Supernumary or Observing flights, then Simulator sessions, LOFT sessions etc.

Even after passing all of the above and being released online as a full fledged first officer, he/she still has a lot of restrictions depending on company policies .. ie. can not be PF for certain critical airports, or during monsoon etc.
Why .,. I even know some junior FOs who have done nothing other than RT and maybe Passenger Announcements in their first 100 odd flights !
Commander takes controls from some rookie pilots routinely during normal line flying due to safety reasons, during approaches and on finals.
Even in the non-critical airfields, many rookie First Officers have not been allowed to do landings by their Commanders.

In short, even after joining an airline, and after becoming a "full feldeged" First Officer, he/she is STILL almost NOTHING as far as being an Airline Pilot is concerned. He/she is still a fresh student who has a long uphill road to travel and learn new things and unlearn a lot of things, along the way.


Except for the tech exam with DGCA, the rest of the stuff is DGCA or Airline training standards?

[silent_scream]

Jimmy,

Just as the DGCA need not write the fact that a Commercial Pilots License Holder need not have any further requirements to be Employed by an Indian Airline and operate a Boeing / Airbus / ATR, it is the similar case with the Non-Scheduled / Charter services. And hence nowhere in the CAR could I find a Minimum requirement for Non Scheduled Multi Engine Operations.

But there does exist one for the Single Engine Charter Operations. This is majorly because most Single engine airplanes are Single Pilot airplanes as well. And in a Charter ops you are to be carrying Passengers. And it is right in considering that One must have 500 Hours total time if He/She has to be the Sole Manipulator of the controls.

The 500 TT requirement for Single Engine Charter can be found in the Civil Aviation Requirements, Section 3, Series C, Part 6.

@flyboy_nz, the rest of the requirement is set by the Airline on minimum standards and requirements laid and governed by DGCA.


Fly Safe.