Graduate Jobs

[Tommy_uk]

Hi everyone, I am a university graduate with a degree in aerospace systems engineering and I am wondering if anyone can give me assistance in finding a job or where to look etc.

Preferably I would like to work in the south east but I just cant seem to find any jobs going at all, I need to get my foot in the door asap before the new batch of graduates finish.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[400_Hertz]

Can we assume you have no EASA Part-66 modules after your gruelling degree course?

I bet you have a passion for the industry.

Can we also assume that you have an in-depth knowledge of laminar airflow across aerodynamic objects?

Do you know the difference between a single and a bi-hex socket?

[shaun.s]

^^That wasn't massively helpful, was it?

Ryanair were advertising a 'Graduate Structures Engineer' position a while back (I applied) at PIK, I gather that they'll have one of these positions for each of their maintenance bases. Might be worth an email?
PM me if you'd like a bit more detail!

[Dodo56]

First thing ignore 40Hz as he seems to think the only engineering jobs are mechanic ones.

Next thing, keep an eye on www.aviationjobsearch.com (http://www.aviationjobsearch.com) - you may not have the experience people are looking for yet but it'll give you company names. Astrium in Stevenage seem to be regularly on the lookout for graduate systems types and there are agencies advertising posts as well (these may be temp posts but they're a foot in the door). Airlines do recruit graduates but normally not straight from college, they like to see experience either in an OEM or hands-on. Keep reviewing their websites though as vacancies do come up. Do some homework to see which OEMs have engineering design facilities in the UK. RR, BAe, Honeywell, Astrium, Goodrich for a start. The full list of Part 21 companies (design/production organisations licensed by EASA) is here: http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/doc/Org_Appro/easa_doa.pdf - do some homework on the companies, what they do, which markets they serve. Don't expect a CV on the email to sell you any more than passing round a business card in a club would get you a date. Sell yourself, meaning understand what the company does, what it wants and how you can fill that need.

Approach the agencies serving the industry and get on their books. Be prepared to travel. Build a list of potential employers and keep a regular eye on their websites for vacancies.

Good luck!

[Tommy_uk]

Thanks for the great information guys!

[400_Hertz]

You can try queuing up with all the other graduates looking for the same cushy number, designing turbine blades for Rolls Royce, these jobs are just not there any more, not by judging the things that graduates tell me anyway. The trouble is that these guys are a victim of a whole skewed educational system (from 12yo school kids to uni grads) encouraging young people to attend colleges and unis at any cost, with little prospect of a career, enabling massive loans that take years to pay off, especially on the limited salaries they get stacking ASDA shelves (or for some reason, driving delivery vans as many seem to).

Some eager students drop out of these courses early due to the high maths content (they wanted to be technicians in the first place and misguidedly, they took the course thinking it would be aircraft-based but the closest you get to the aircraft is a photo of one at the top of the acronyms page in their notes). When will Unis realise that they should offer the academic with the industry-standard qualifications?

I simply fall on the side of the technician who chooses a different path, studies just as hard but has something the industry needs and wants in the form of both academic and practical experience at the end of all the hard work.

It's easier financially studying for a degree when you are living on a B1 or B2 salary, so there's nothing to stop these guys go engineering first and then academia. I'm sure you could find a better outlook with employers with your Part-66 qualifications and experienced backed up by a degree.

OK, this all helps the OP not one bit, but at least I'm not blowing smoke up his rear telling him things will be rosy in the end. Dodo's post was useful with the links, might be an idea to include the Part-145 organisations as well next time. What about this link for Part-145 orgs? (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1204&pagetype=90&pageid=9934) Or This one for Part-M? (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1204&pagetype=90&pageid=9631) But to be honest, it's going to take a serious amount of time and effort to even get a reply.

[superdimona]

Not everyone wants to spend their time maintaining aircraft - someone has to design the thing in the first place! Also, universities are NOT trade schools and are not intended to be. The apprenticeship system already exists to train people to maintain planes (and be carpenters, electricians, builders etc) - university isn't supposed to duplicate that.

You don't learn to be a design engineer with hand tools - that's why most design engineers don't go through the apprenticeship system and instead opt for a degree. Hands on experience certainly helps however it isn't where most learning takes place.

[Dodo56]

From personal experience I entered the engineering department of an OEM with an engineering degree, as did others at the same time. There were some 'pure science' graduates as well, and some who worked up from the draughtsman or shop floor route, but none from hands-on maintenance. Knowledge of aeroplanes was desirable but not essential, and could be learned, as the work consisted of designing and analysing the performance of components and sub-systems off the aircraft. The OEM I worked for also provided a good amount of job related training, none of which was Part-66 (or BCAR at the time).

What I'm saying is design and maintenance are two quite different sets of disciplines and the training for one does not necessarily coincide with the other. As I found myself when making the transition from industry to maintenance!

I'm not knocking your advice 400 and apologies if I was a bit harsh up there - the willingness to help entrants to the industry is not to be sniffed at either. I'm really just saying the job and knowledge requirements between design and maintenance are quite different (at least at the entry level - they tend to overlap further up the career ladder). In all honesty then, he has a degree which is the main qualification for most design/development jobs, he doesn't need Part-66, just the tenacity to research suitable employers and get selling himself. No guarantees he'll succeed, yes it's a competitive market, but you gotta start somewhere.

[lovezzin]

400HZ, from your original and irrelevent reply....you could probably assume he does in fact have an in-depth knowledge of laminar airflow over aerodynamic objects.....possibly even more so than you!!

As for direct entry/grad training jobs, Im afraid im 99% certain you're going to have to wait and join the next batch of Engineering graduates fighting for spots because the majority of employers recruit between September-Febuary for employment starting the following Summer....Im suprised you didnt know this already and are asking in here!!!

There are a few vacant grad positions available still dotted around though...just google about! Otherwise join Wynwyth or MatchTech for some Contract Graduate temp jobs (Engineering) until you get into a permanent Grad job....

Things will be rosy in the end if you are the right stuff and get your applications in on time!! you have potentially missed the boat for the best positions starting 2010 im afraid...

Disclaimer: This is my opinion based on my experience, Im not claiming it as gospel, nor as a know-it-all and I dont want to be fried alive by other posters :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

You can try queuing up with all the other graduates looking for the same cushy number, designing turbine blades for Rolls Royce, these jobs are just not there any more, not by judging the things that graduates tell me anyway. The trouble is that these guys are a victim of a whole skewed educational system (from 12yo school kids to uni grads) encouraging young people to attend colleges and unis at any cost, with little prospect of a career, enabling massive loans that take years to pay off, especially on the limited salaries they get stacking ASDA shelves (or for some reason, driving delivery vans as many seem to).

Those jobs may or may not be cushy, but they do still exist. If not at RR, at Airbus on the A400M, at BAeS on Typhoon, at WHL on Merlin variants...

But you do make a good point, the country has pushed too many people into degrees who would be happier in technician jobs, and made apprenticeship places too scarce. On the other hand, there are still a lot of jobs which need engineering graduates

Some eager students drop out of these courses early due to the high maths content (they wanted to be technicians in the first place and misguidedly, they took the course thinking it would be aircraft-based but the closest you get to the aircraft is a photo of one at the top of the acronyms page in their notes). When will Unis realise that they should offer the academic with the industry-standard qualifications?

The maths content is tough on any engineering degree, 'tis true, and the lack of content with aircraft during the course can be demoralising. When I was doing my BEng I often escaped to the local aircraft museum to recharge my moral batteries - on the other hand I've been around aeroplanes pretty much continuously since I graduated a couple of decades ago, so it was a temporary snag.

I simply fall on the side of the technician who chooses a different path, studies just as hard but has something the industry needs and wants in the form of both academic and practical experience at the end of all the hard work.

Both technicians and graduate engineers need both academic and practical experience if they're going to get anywhere: the difference is in the proportions.

It's easier financially studying for a degree when you are living on a B1 or B2 salary, so there's nothing to stop these guys go engineering first and then academia. I'm sure you could find a better outlook with employers with your Part-66 qualifications and experienced backed up by a degree.

A part 66 qualification is of probably little more value in the design office or research lab than, say, a long summer of work experience in the hangar. It is the degree that really counts there. Also, since there are virtually no opportunities to study for a BEng or MEng in aeronautical or mechanical engineering whilst working full time - what you propose just isn't possible. More's the pity.

OK, this all helps the OP not one bit, but at least I'm not blowing smoke up his rear telling him things will be rosy in the end.

It wasn't, but I didn't see anybody saying that the job would be easy to find, easy to do, or achievable without a lifetime of continuous further training and education either. Much like becoming a technician.

Dodo's post was useful with the links, might be an idea to include the Part-145 organisations as well next time. What about this link for Part-145 orgs? (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1204&pagetype=90&pageid=9934) Or This one for Part-M? (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1204&pagetype=90&pageid=9631) But to be honest, it's going to take a serious amount of time and effort to even get a reply.

Completely pointless actually, since part 145 organisations are just about as likely to employ aerospace engineering graduates as the design office at BAe military is to employ a B1 technician. Both might have the odd one for their specific experience, but there's no career there.



A further, and less negative note. The various agency websites are pretty poor for aero-eng graduate jobs. The best thing is to specifically target the websites of the employers that interest you, bookmark them, then go back and check regularly. BAe, Westlands, RR, Airbus, Bombardier, Cobham, Thales, Qinetiq would be a good start - then look at the 1001 smaller companies that you read about in Flight, Aerospace International and so-on. In fact, it's often the smaller companies that have the most interesting jobs since you're likely to see much more breadth of engineering than working on wing structures at Warton.

G

[portsharbourflyer]

Morsons at Machester were recently advertising for Graduates to train as stress engineers. Advert was on the jobsite website.

[400_Hertz]

Completely pointless actually, since part 145 organisations are just about as likely to employ aerospace engineering graduates as the design office at BAe military is to employ a B1 technician.

I'll take note of that when dealing with the many Part-145 organisations who also have Part-21 J DOA within the same company or group. My text can be summed up "let's think outside the box".

Perhaps this might help EASA Part-21 J organisations. (http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/doc/Org_Appro/easa_doa.pdf)

Or even this for those thinking of a degree in aviation: Which degree for me? (http://worldwide.erau.edu/degrees-programs/which-degree/index.html)

Nicely constructed reply Ghengis. I can see we'll get on famously.

[McAero]

Hi Tommy,

I can understand that your preference is to stay in the south east, but you may have to make the move initially to get the experience before moving back. I graudated 5 years ago. Give me a PM if you'd like any info on how I went about getting a job etc and the moves I've made.

All the best,

Mc

[clearair]

Hi Tommy,
Don't let some of these negatives responses get to you. Some people work well with their hands others better using their brains. But I will say that you should respect these guys despite the comments because when you start your career most of your knowledge will come from the guys that work mechanics and know the job blindfolded. Just think of new doctors.
Employment is bad in the UK right now, but some companies are still hiring and Feb/ March is when the big companies start the recruitment process.
You still will be considered for the next intake of graduates, but justify what you have been doing these months. Companies understand that it is tough. You have a degree so well done. Your degree can get you into a lot of professions but it seems like aviation is for you.
Think of which sector you want to work in: do you want to work in an airline, a manufacturing company or any overhaul facility. What's your fav subject? Don't rule out the small companies either because they show how the company works as a whole and you will experience different areas of the business. Go to recruitment fairs and speak to your universitiy career advisor.
Good luck:ok:

[EGT Redline]

Some people work well with their hands others better using their brains.

The Licensed Aircraft Engineer works well using both :ok:

[elhadj67]

Can we assume you have no EASA Part-66 modules after your gruelling degree course?

I bet you have a passion for the industry.

Can we also assume that you have an in-depth knowledge of laminar airflow across aerodynamic objects?

Do you know the difference between a single and a bi-hex socket?

Yeah, sound, good man, thanks.

Tommy, if you're willing to ignore the likes of that grunt, check out ryanair.com/careers, taking on graduate engineers in Technical Services. Based in Dublin though, so you'd have to relocate, and surprise surprise, FR don't offer relocation! Might be better than the dole though...