Groundschool classes or self study?

[monkeytribe]

Am about to start the modular route, question was:

For the PPL phase, would like to hear opinions if groundschool classes are necessary or is self study enough to get you through?

Are the groundschool classes an unnecessary outlay or a luxury in terms of cost, I was looking at stapleford's 6 day brush up classes and cabair's 18 week programme.

Cabair's is £411 for the 18 weeks (exams included)
Stapleford's is £35 per day (9am - 5pm) x6

Your views would be appreciated.

[ab33t]

depends how commited you are. If you need prompting then I would go the class route .

[Whirlygig]

Unless you have no discipline for self-study, PPL studies can be completed from the books at home easily. So can ATPL (with the required brush-up courses).

Cheers

Whirls

[JLMF]

For PPL self study is good enough!

Regards.
I gonna start ATPL´s at London Met, now yes!, GROUND SCHOOL POWER!

[mirogster]

Well..... is all that above means, that in UK is possible to apply for PPL exams just 'right from the street' ?
No obligatory ground school or whatever / only with self study preparation? :eek:
Much obliged for an answer.

[Whirlygig]

is possible to apply for PPL exams just 'right from the street' ? Yes.

Cheers

Whirls

[EI-CON]

whirly,

Think your wrong there. I know the IAA requires a certain number of hours of groundschool must be completed, sorry I cant think of the figure off the top of my head but there is one. The hours must be completed and an instructor must sign off to say he/she has completed the groundschool.

IAA application form:
http://www.iaa.ie/files/2009/docs/20091106101849_AFTKE_JAR-FCL_PPL.pdf

note section 3

[mirogster]

Just what I thought so:ugh:

....but after a moment of one cell brainstorm....

How about PPL theory distance learning (just like ATPL).
Is it doable in UK, if so which FTO is doing such operations;) ?

[Whirlygig]

EI-CON, the questioner specifically asked about the UK. I answered with respect to the UK of which, since 1922, Ireland has not been part.

Cheers

Whirls

[mirogster]

Whirls,

Pleaseeeee provide more details! Is that light at the end of PPL theory tunnel?
Where I can sit exams, at any FTO in UK?

[Whirlygig]

You would normally sit the PPL exams at the school with whom you are going to do the flying. However, if both schools agree, you could (and I did) sit the exams at one school and carry out the flying with another.

Cheers

Whirls

[EI-CON]

whirly, appologise for posting on the IAA however they are both part of JAA so I assumed similar requirements.

However I still find it hard to believe the CAA doesnt reqire one to do groundschool and the IAA does. But maybe so I can on post on what I've experienced i.e. the IAA.

[Jarvy]

If I remember correctly (which I usually don't) you only need ground school for PPL if you fail any subject more than 3 times. The requirement for CPL/ATPL is for 4 weeks ground school to be signed off by the school.
PPL exams can be done at any FTO.
This is in the UK.

[mirogster]

Thanks Whirls & Jarvy !!!
Good news especially i'm from Holland but not Dutch :) And prefer taking exams in english.

[Whirlygig]

But maybe so I can on post on what I've experienced i.e. the IAA.Feel free ... but you can't assume that all JAA member states have the same rules. In the UK, the aviation law is governed by the Air Navigation Order which was enacted by Parliament and therefore takes precendent over the JAA. Ireland may well have a similar act as may the other states.

Cheers

Whirls

[EI-CON]

fair enough and I stand corrected, should have done my PPL in UK would have saved a fortune on groundschool!

[hugel]

I'm not a pilot, but even for the PPL I think sharing the learning experience with a group of other students is a good thing. This schooling will obviously cost, so a study group of like-minded people could be an alternative...personally I enjoy being presented with material to consider and assess rather than self-study alone with some rather dry textbooks for comapny. I know the tests aren't "difficult", but that doesn't mean the learning has to be ALARP. If you intend to process further, then it will be money well-spent IMO.

hugel

[IrishJetdriver]

The JAA is simply an amalgamation of all the differences.

[Whirlygig]

I think sharing the learning experience with a group of other students is a good thing.Maybe if you're twelve!!!! :} Personally, I couldn't think of anything worse .... much prefer to study on my own and more productive too. :ok:

Cheers

Whirls

[hugel]

I think there is a difference between being spoonfed and learning with others. Presumably life as a pilot is one of self-reliance (any psychologists in da house?) so I imagine many of those aspiring to become a pilot prefer to be in control of the learning experience...

Anyone who has suffered from mistakes and lack of clarity in textbooks will understand the limitations of studying alone...these days of course we have ...fora !

hugel

[Northbeach]

Interesting display of “pilot personality types” here; one suggests group study another responds that is waste of time can/rather do it on my own. I flew single pilot for a decade including multi-engine IFR without an autopilot. It wasn’t until I had a year or so in the right seat of a business jet and gone through several initial/recurrent courses put on by major training centers I eventually became convinced that a crew of two does have the potential to perform better together than either one of the pilots could as individuals.

In my present flying position I wouldn’t think of flying without another pilot.

The group studies have the potential of providing you with a far superior learning environment than simply studying by yourself. Under ideal conditions you will be learning at the leadership of a motivated, enthusiastic, experienced instructor who has a commanding grasp of the material and the ability and interest to guide the students learning process.

But no, it is not mandatory to be in a classroom to gain the education necessary to pass your ppl written; you can do that on your own (unless classroom attendance is an artificial rule set by some governmental authority).

If money is a consideration, you have the time and can find a good class; then take the class. If any one of those variables are not met then study for it on your own. You can always post your questions here on PPRUNE and benefit from the resulting discussion for free…………

Respectfully,

Northbeach

[hugel]

Something else that has just occured to me is the all those judgement-calls, and what-if scenarios when presented with a set of circumstance. There are often many answers beyond the single thread presented by an author, and it is useful to see how others respond and find out why. Although the industry is drowning in a sea of regulations, exchanging real experiences is the kind of thing that no textbook can provide....

hugel

[Whirlygig]

another responds that is waste of time can/rather do it on my own.That'd be me then! :}

My point is that there are a number of people stating that studying in a classroom IS beneficial. I disagree. It MAY be beneficial for SOME. It is not a fact that it IS a better learning tool. And that's another interesting pilot-personality factor .... stating an opinion as fact!

From my point of view, I would not have found it that helpful as I believe people learn at different speeds and have differing difficulties in different subjects. Any classroom environment will be pulled down to the standard of the worst student.

Self-study requires its own skills and disciplines but having self-studied for a qualification far hard than ATPL theory, I know best to which method I am suited. Maybe not for everyone, but definitely for some!

Cheers

Whirls

[Cirrus_Clouds]

From personal experience, especially as I'm studying for the ATPL at the moment, I find a classroom environment benefitial in the sense it keeps you moving forward at a good pace and it helps with being in a "teaching environment". On the other hand, I need time to digest what I read and also a quiet room, this is not something that a classroom can provide. I've spent ages learning Bristol's material and I'm sure that the time I've spent will benefit me when it comes to the brush-up.

As the original poster has commented about flying with another pilot, I agree, this is a very usual way of working. Spreading the work load, enjoying the flight more, feeling more relaxed and potentially learn more from each other! :ok: But flying solo builds one's confidence in his/her ability.

[PeterPanGFA]

Hi all. Just to notify you that Flying Time Aviation, Shoreham, might be a good choice. They have various course structures available, including the Distance Learning ATPL.:)