Passenger Safety Brief

[Pontius Navigator]

Are airlines checked on the quality and effectiveness of their passenger briefs?

I just flew on Easyjet and while the brief was standard it was also wholly ineffective. First there was about 5 minutes of PA in a miscellany of European languages before we got the English version with CS demonstrating the moves.

I was in row 13 and could only see the CS at the front of the aircraft by leaning out into the aisle. Those seated in centre and outside had no chance whatever. I guess less than a quarter of passengers had any chance of catching any of the brief.

Better if the CS, having done the brief and demo walked down the aisle wearing the life vest and demonstrating the oxygen mask as they went.

[agent x]

There is also a Safety Card in the seat pocket or inside the inflight magazine or on the back of the seat in front. All of the safety information covered in the Demonstration and more is detailed on these cards and can be understood by everyone regardless of language spoken. If a passenger feels they missed some or all of the demonstration the safety card should be looked at. Either way everyone should always read the safety card and in the majority of cases most demonstrations begin with the line ' Please study the saftety card in the seat pocket....' :ugh:

Ax

[ulxima]

having done the brief and demo walked down the aisle wearing the life vest and demonstrating the oxygen mask as they went


Thank you PN, at least I now got to the point why Air France CCs walk down the aisle wearing the life vest and showing the "safety instruction card in the seat pocket in front of you".

Ciao
Ulxima

[Final 3 Greens]

If a passenger feels they missed some or all of the demonstration the safety card should be looked at

Surely, if someone misses the safety brief, they need to be briefed.

If a pax arrives after the brief, the CC will brief them.

What is the difference with someone who could not hear or see?

[Rwy in Sight]

Most pax don't care about the safety briefing and (in some countries at least) pray as the aircraft is departing.

Those who missed the briefing can ask the FAs (if not covered in the safety card.

Rwy in Sight

[Final 3 Greens]

Most pax don't care about the safety briefing and (in some countries at least) pray as the aircraft is departing.


So what? The briefing is not provided because the pax like it.

If a pax arrives late, the CC give a safety briefing to them, why don't they let the pax ask the CC instead?

[Pontius Navigator]

Most pax don't care about the safety briefing

Well I do.

May be the brief should be in two parts.

"Those who have not listened to the safety brief are to remain in their seats in the event of an emergency until rescue teams tell them they may leave."

"Those who have listened to the the brief may leave by the nearest suitable exit.":}

Once we had one particular crew memeber who resolutely refused to learn the escape drills. He said it was our job to look after him. Yeah, right.

[lowcostdolly]

PN Are you partially sighted? I ask not to be funny but so far quite a lot of the "standard" EZY safety brief seems to have passed you by.

Sitting at row 13 I can appreciate it would be difficult to see the crew member demonstrating at row one......thats why we put one in the middle of the cabin as well. Quite near to where you sat in fact!

The Oxygen mask is demonstrated by dropping the mask one side and pointing to the ceiling panels opposite by both crew members......again by the one standing very near you as well. If you missed that you could have looked in the safety card in your seat pocket. You are told to study this by the SCCM reading the demo.

If you had any questions you could have asked one of the CC securing the cabin....the ones wearing the bright yellow lifejackets that you also seem to have missed :rolleyes:

Of course if you are registered blind it your responsibility to inform the CC. It then becomes our responsibility to brief you seperatly in accordance with CAA regulations. And yes airlines are checked on their safety procedures in accordance with the AOC.

FYI EZY is a UK registered company so therefore required to do the demo in english. We play a tape in the language of the country we are flying from/to as a courtesy to our multi national customers. We don't always have time to do this downroute if the taxi is short and we certainly would not be playing a "miscellany" of foreign tapes in five minutes anywhere......just one can go on for as long as this.

If you think the standard of EZY's safety briefs are "wholly ineffective" I would suggest you contact the safety group at the CAA who will investigate.

In my experience the only time a safety brief is ineffective is when pax talk/read or sleep their way through it :=

F3G Late pax and seperate briefings? On lufty maybe but on EZY if your late we don't wait :eek:

The only brief you would get is on the next flight ;)

[6chimes]

I thought the demo was done after the doors were closed. Does that not mean that there is no chance of anyone else joining the flight?

6

[lowcostdolly]

6Chimes

My point to F3G exactly :ok: If your late you won't catch it on that flight.

LCD :)

[Final 3 Greens]

I thought the demo was done after the doors were closed. Does that not mean that there is no chance of anyone else joining the flight?
6

Honestly guys, I sometimes roll my eyes :sad: when you post that we pax do not understand your operations and then you give a lecture that fails to take into account anything outside your narrow frame of reference.

I'll give you a clue, why would an airline open the door to accept a passenger?

Think about it.

According to you lot, it is one of the reasons why you should check boarding passes at the door.

A bit of joined up thinking please......

I have seen this happen several times over the years.

[Rwy in Sight]

PN,

You and most PPRuNers are the exceptions. From my experience pax's don't care for the instruction and you can see this next time you travel check how many people look at the safety brief.

Hava a look at safety cards, airline safety, illustration, evacuation, instructions, procedures, Airtoons - index (http://www.airtoons.com/) and see what people make of the safety brief. (sorry I don't know how to insert a link properly),

F3G you must travel much more than me because when I travel, the crew make the announcement as the aircraft starts to move under its own power.

In any case if you care either ask the crew or read the safety card.

Rwy in Sight

[Final 3 Greens]

F3G you must travel much more than me because when I travel, the crew make the announcement as the aircraft starts to move under its own power.

I do about 100-120 sectors per year, how about you?

In the past year I have seen safety briefs


Before pushback
After pushback
starting before take off and completed in the climb (suspended during take off)
Entirely during the climb
Not given at all (after an intermediate stop)


You need to get out more ;)

[Shack37]

F3G you must travel much more than me because when I travel, the crew make the announcement as the aircraft starts to move under its own power.


How dare you even hint that F3G may be wrong, you should know by now that the CC do extra briefs for him personally at any stage of the flight. It's a special service for seat 1A and those whose sector count has reached three digits.

I don't travel as much as I used to before retirement but have not had a safety brief at any time other than after push back and before take off.
:sad:

[strake]

F3G is right about the variation in briefings but he missed one:

On a puddle-jumper out of St Louis last October with 5 of us onboard. "Guy's, the card's in the pocket. I'll be round with sodas after takeoff."

[Rwy in Sight]

F3G says,

"You need to get out more "

and limit my PPRuNe time. This is not going to happen any time soon.

For the record I do about 25 sectors a year and practically all are boring with an exception of one to BEY last year where I had reasons to pay close attention to a female F/A. I stop the discussion here because we will end in the Jet Blast.

However on all flights the briefing was given after the aircraft started moving and we have never stop to collect any one on the road to the threshold.

You would agree that most PAX don't follow the brief very closely for varying reasons and the card has much more information.


Rwy in Sight

PS I like Big Airlines.

[6chimes]

F3G, apologies. I didn't mean to imply anyone's ignorance. I was referring to the question based on a UK carrier and not as the post asked; All airlines although my response was based around the observation on an EZY flight.

I suspect that you fly an awful lot with non CAA vetted carriers, where standards may vary, not necessarily less just different.

I can only comment from my own experience and my airline. We cannot take off unless the demo has been completed and all cabin checks completed. If we did we would all be sacked.

Yes I've had cause to return to stand on numerous occasions, never though have we let another pax on.

6

[Final 3 Greens]

Hey 6

Just a bit of banter, no offence taken at dolly and your coments :ok: Hope none the other way either.

The circumstance causing the arrival post briefing is of course pax who boarded the wrong flight, so the airline wants to board them and opens up. I've only seen it before leaving stand, never a return to collect them.

Some airlines do brief before pushback, especially if there is a short taxi to a quiet active.

The other examples are disgraceful and the crew should be sacked, but as you quite rightly say these are not CAA vetted (although some names might surprise you, others not.)

However, some of the other stuff I have seen would make your hair stand on end :eek:

Finally, I was on a flight last October, where we had the safety brief (via video) 3 times, once before take off, once during takeoff and during the climb and finally in the climb - it got pretty boring :}

[radeng]

I can't say that I find the safety card particularly helpful or particularly informative. I always stop reading, change glasses and watch the safety breifing, but I am fed up with that bl**dy rabbit the blasted kid drops every time on the BA briefing. And then the hostess picks it up and doesn't smack the stupid little wotsit round the lug'ole!

Slightly amusing is the instruction about turning off electronic equipment. They don't mention pacemakers and hearing aids, both of which these days may well have radio transmitters in them - as may insulin pumps, and other medical implants.

[Sark]

I am getting seriously concerned about the quality of PA announcements. The sound quality is poor on some and the command of clear spoken English by some CC is poor. I use Easyjet and Flybe as recent examples of the latter.

What would happen in a real emergency when we are being instructed by someone who we cannot understand gives me the shivers.

[Alsacienne]

IMHO Easyjet's briefings are far clearer than those of Ryanair, especially when the crew member actually making the briefing is of Spanish (previous Air Futura wetleasing) or Eastern European origin.

All EZY and FR safety briefings are after pushback, once the Captain has been given clearance for taxing.

[Final 3 Greens]

once the Captain has been given clearance for taxing.

Don't people in the UK pay enough tax already? :mad:

[IRRenewal]

Slightly amusing is the instruction about turning off electronic equipment. They don't mention pacemakers and hearing aids, both of which these days may well have radio transmitters in them - as may insulin pumps, and other medical implants.

Why do you think electronic equipment needs to be switched off for T/O and landing?

A mobile phone, ipod, laptop or walkman (do they still exist?) in use during an emergency would hinder not only that passenger but people around him/her as well.

Pacemakers and hearing aids on the other hand would greatly help said passenger to get out in case of a mishap.

The reason for nearly all these rules (not listening to your ipod, dimming cabin lights for night T/O, opening window blinds, etc) is 'because if we crash we want you to be able to get out'. Maybe those words should actually be included in the briefing, although this might be seen as a bit too confrontational.

IMHO Easyjet's briefings are far clearer than those of Ryanair, especially when the crew member actually making the briefing is of Spanish (previous Air Futura wetleasing) or Eastern European origin.

FR safety briefings are done from a tape. Don't know what other airlines do.

All EZY and FR safety briefings are after pushback, once the Captain has been given clearance for taxing.

Don't know about EZY, but at FR the CC start the briefing as soon as the doors have been closed. This might well be before or during the push back, and has nothing to do with the captain receiving clearance to taxi.

Regards

IRR (FR Captain)

[framer]

I am getting seriously concerned about the quality of PA announcements. The sound quality is poor on some and the command of clear spoken English by some CC is poor. I use Easyjet and Flybe as recent examples of the latter.
See what happens is, they cut costs in order to provide cheap tickets, to cut costs they cut wages, as a result they get a lower quality of employee (often not always). Cheap tickets equal reduced safety standards. It is the way with engineering and flight crew as well. If there was a minimum ticket price per Nm it would improve safety.
Growth would slow, but there would still be growth.

[lowcostdolly]

IRR you took the words right off my keyboard :ok:

We do the same as you. Demo as doors closed and slides armed. Just in case the SLF has to vacate via these whilst we are waiting to push back.

Personally I feel we should use more direct language to draw pax attention to the contents of the safety brief and it's purpose. We have a Captain who when he does his intro says " Please play close attention to the safety instructions given by the CC. It is given for your benefit not theirs and could save your life one day, hopefiully not today".

May not be strictly standard but it sure gets the pax attention!!

[JWP1938]

As pax (or SLF if you prefer) for over 30 years I always pay attention to the safety briefing. Apart from the obvious safety knowledge aspect it shows courtesy to the FA giving it. It doesn't matter if you have had the same briefing many times before and it only takes literally a couple of minutes of your time. I would think that any normal person with a normally polite demeanor would do the same. The others just don't matter (unless they get in my way should there be an emergency :E).

The comment from Final 3 Greens, I think, refers jokingly to the spelling of "taxiing." Taxing is something completely different as he implies. (I think some spell it "taxying" which is still incorrect).

[Capot]

There's a FODCOM out which is relevant to this thread.....

FODCOM about safety briefings (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/FOD201005.pdf)

posted in the interests of wide dissemination.........

[radeng]

I agree with JWP, it is only polite to pay attention to the safety briefing, although like the seatbelt sign, on many US airlines, it seems to be optional.

I'm well aware of why electronic equipment should be switched off for T/O and landing, and why no radio transmitters should be used in flight. But with modern hearing aids, pacemakers, insulin pumps and other implants, it may not be possible. Fortunately, the powers are so low that interference to A/C systems is improbable. I suspect ICAO haven't caught on yet to the fact that these devices have transmitters in them: it took them some time to classify pacemakers as hazardous cargo because of some in the early 1980s with plutonium batteries. There have been none of those manufactured for at least twenty years, but pacemakers are still classed as hazardous cargo.

[Pontius Navigator]

PN Are you partially sighted? I ask not to be funny but so far quite a lot of the "standard" EZY safety brief seems to have passed you by.

Sitting at row 13 I can appreciate it would be difficult to see the crew member demonstrating at row one......thats why we put one in the middle of the cabin as well. Quite near to where you sat in fact! ;)

LCD, your post is quite uncalled for and will not endear you to management when I follow up with a letter.

I probably have more hours than you and have certainly written more passenger briefs than you.

Certainly there was a second CS posted near me but unless I wished to crane backward I could certainly not see her as she stood by row 15.

Your remarks are equally misplaced as had the brief passed me by I would not have even made this post. I read the card assiguously and am pleased to say that it was quite comprehensive and accurate: some are not.

As well as a walk-down brief I would also ask you to consider a separate brief for those sitting by the emergency exits, especially as there is no easy access by trained CS to the overwing exits.

I will reserve any further response pending your reply.

[Pontius Navigator]

PN, You and most PPRuNers are the exceptions.

Quite. Been there, done that. Mrs PN is required to wear running shoes and not heels.

Friend of mine. A320 Captain, would have banned any passenger not properly shod or wearing trousers. Flip flops and shorts from Costa Notalotika should never have been allowed to fly out of UK in the first place.

[10DowningSt]

and will not endear you to management when I follow up with a letter.

have certainly written more passenger briefs than you.

Good for you, but when you get a bit pompous, you expose yourself to a side-swipe.

I hope that your letter and the briefs that you write are in better English than your post.

[Pontius Navigator]

Good for you, but when you get a bit pompous, you expose yourself to a side-swipe.

I hope that your letter and the briefs that you write are in better English than your post.

At my age I am entitled to be pompous. What advice would you offer?

[10DowningSt]

Here's one or two to go along with, I'll leave you to find the rest....

quite uncalled for meaningless cliche

will not endear you to management when I follow up with a letter. You'll do what? Are you seriously proposing to write to her management to point out the error of her ways in a Pprune post? (OK, not bad English, that one. Just a very strange thing to say on an anonymous forum.)

to crane backward To crane is a transitive verb. Crane what? Your head? Your left leg? Your d........ no, let's stop this. And in my book, backward is an adjective, backwards is the adverb you meant to use. But perhaps usage has changed that.

equally misplaced Equal to what? What was previously described as misplaced?

had the brief passed me by Are you talking about a lawyer wandering about in the cabin? Or a mobile piece of laminated card running up and down?

assiguously Is this something to do with assegais? It's the best I can do with that word. Do you wave one around while reading the briefing card? Some kind of look-at-me signal?

to consider a separate brief for those sitting by the emergency exits OK, the English is OK, but every single time I have bagged the overwing exit seat I have been carefully briefed on how to open it. That's on a number of airlines including the main UK ones.

I will reserve any further response As in reserve a seat? Reserve a spot in heaven? (http://www.reserveaspotinheaven.com/)How does one reserve a further response? What is a "further" response, anyway? One that's further away than the last one?


Oh God, I need to get out more. You did ask. And I'm even more entitled to be pompous, so I am.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

10 Downing St ... he's a self-proclaimed Navigator, not a MA in English.

Why is it that our generation [yes, I'm one as well] feel the need to pick at individuals' spelling and grammar and literacy? We are all, inevitably, candidates for the British Pompous Team at the next Pompouslympics.

Now, where were we? Oh, yes, Safety Briefings. The OH always has the window seat, and I have the aisle seat. I have enough difficulty seeing the briefing; she, being shorter and somewhat obscured by the intervening seats, can see little. Oh, FRABJOUS JOY ... here in the seat back before me is a pretty laminated card, explaining everything in pictures.

So, do either of us give a sh1t? Nope. :rolleyes:

[Alsacienne]

taxing

:\:D:D

Sorry!

[Alsacienne]

Oh and just one GENUINE question, because I've had a problem understanding the safety card about evacuation by using the slides ............. are ladies supposed to remove all footwear or just high heels that might snag the slide on descent?

[lowcostdolly]

Oh dear PN we are just going to have to agree to differ on this one.

My post was totally justified. You came onto a worldwide public forum and trashed the safety brief of a well respected UK carrier as "wholly ineffective" (your words). That's a serious accusation potentially damaging to EZY's reputation and this is not the place to make it. I directed you to the CAA who oversee the AOC. If you are that concerned (rather than just having a rant) these are the people you should be talking too.

In the meantime please feel free to write to EZY management. Be sure to mention the second demonstrating CC was at Row 15 as you overlooked to mention that in your OP as indeed you forgot to mention the aircraft type as well. On the 319 the CC should be at Row 1 and Row 13. No doubt a NTC will be circulated to remind crew of this if that was the plane you travelled on.

So I should give "consideration" to doing a seperate overwing exit brief? That wouldn't be the one a fully trained member of CC does up to 4 times a day to pax sitting at these exits would it? It goes along the lines of:

"Just to make you aware you are sitting by the emergency exits. These are self help exits and in the event of an emergency occuring you would be required to operate them. Please can I draw your attention to the operating instructions (pointing to location of these) and please make sure you look at your safety card before departure. Are you still happy to sit here?"

Also consideration is given on every flight to the suitability of the pax sitting there to fulfil this function.

Just for the record my own personal opinion is that all safety briefs should be done by video as pax seem to take far more notice of these anyway and they are easier to see. However when EZY want my opinion they give it to me ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

LCD, 'wholly ineffective' simply because the majority of pax could not see the brief even had they wanted to, not because the brief itself was not comprehensive.

As i was sitting in row 13 I know that no brief was given to anyone sitting in rows 12 or 13. I also know that one of the rows was passenger blocked if you know what I mean.

The CC were most particular about stowage of stuff in the overheads rather than on the floor.

Other than the ineffective brief, and that is an airline issue, not a CC issue, the flight was well run and extremely comfortable. I shall make special note of what happens on my return flight today.

I could write to Kingsway but it may be more directed if I write to the company first.

[smala01]

IRRenewal

As we have a FR top man here.

Is there any chance you boys could turn up your announcements? I would say 30% are inaudible in the cabin. (100 sectors usually ex-Bristol)

The safety brief is always clear and loud so the system itself seems effective.

As we are on the topic of safety - if you were to announce "evacuate evacuate" i'm not sure anyone would hear it.

Smala01

[lowcostdolly]

PN I will rephrase my "feel free" to write to EZY management to "please do". No overwing brief would be taken very seriously and fully investigated

It is standard operating procedure for all pax sitting at the self help exits to be briefed before take off by a fully trained CC member.

I am an EZY SCCM and had this not happened on my flight I would have wanted to know at the time rather than read about it on here. That way I can address this at the time by briefing the pax myself and addressing the oversight of the crew member concerned directly with them.

I hope you never see this, or any other failure of SOP's again but if you do please do ask to see the operating SCCM. We can only put things right at the time if we know about it. I would welcome this from any pax at any time :ok:

[6chimes]

PN, Were the seats O/W seats occupied when you boarded? They may have been briefed earlier. It's something we do to save those precious moments and get that flight out on time when turn-arounds are tight.

If not then you're quite right to notify someone, although many airlines do dismiss crew for such a breach of SOP's.

6

[Alsacienne]

FR safety briefings are done from a tape.

Not always - only for 'foreign' languages.

And PLEASE clarify my question, when you've stopped point-scoring:

Oh and just one GENUINE question, because I've had a problem understanding the safety card about evacuation by using the slides ............. are ladies supposed to remove all footwear or just high heels that might snag the slide on descent?

........ after all YOU lot are the professionals on safety briefings.

[radeng]

One understands the 'leave everything behind'. But after th G-YMMM business, there were a lot of complaints that the pax were not well supported. So there's an evacuation, I leave everything behind including the drugs I need, - which are in my briefcase - and which one must NOT stop taking (eg steroids and insulin). I'm now down on the tarmac, in a country where at best my knowledge of the local language is minimal, if non-existent. The airline staff are up to their ears: I need my drugs as a matter of urgency, and there's no way to get the medical attention that's needed. And if my wallet is in my brief case (as is usually the case), I can't pay for the drugs if I could get them.

If there's enough notice, one moves drugs, wallet etc to pockets. There wasn't in the case of YMMM.

So what should I do? (Please don't say 'Die'!)

[Nicholas49]

Alsacienne - that is not correct. Ryanair also have and use a recorded safety briefing in English (with a strong Irish accent!).

I don't know when exactly this is used instead of the cabin crew announcing 'live'. I have experienced both modes on FR recent flights. The English recording was used on a flight from Bari, Italy, to Stansted. Maybe someone from FR can enlighten?

Have to agree with those complaining about the quality of English not always being comprehensible. This must be a safety issue?

[tomkins]

Couple of points.
Has anyone actually managed to decifer a safety card yet.Next time you fly study it hard .If you are not an egyptologist it does not serve its purpose ie to adequatlely explain the saftey proceedures.
And what happens when you have half the seats occupied by non english speakers????can just immagine the bedlam when a problem occurs!!!!

[Alsacienne]

Quote:Oh and just one GENUINE question, because I've had a problem understanding the safety card about evacuation by using the slides ............. are ladies supposed to remove all footwear or just high heels that might snag the slide on descent?

PLEASE could someone in the profession answer this question. I have ongoing medical problems on the soles of my feet (ie underneath where I would be in contact with the ground running away from the aircraft ...) and this is a matter I'd like resolved.

(And no, I don't wear high heeled shoes at any time.)

[lowcostdolly]

Alsacienne I have worked for 4 UK airlines over the years. All of them called for the removal of high heeled shoes only. The rationale being that these have the potential to damage and potentially deflate the slide on descent making it unusable for anyone else.

I have never heard of any UK airline asking pax to remove all their footwear in an evacuation. Legging it out of a downed aircraft when there would be all sorts of debris on the landing site would not be easy in barefeet and would slow the flow of evacuating pax on the ground.

Hope that helps :)

[lowcostdolly]

radeng I understand your concerns here as I'm a nurse so know how important this would be for you.

My advice, and it's purely the advice of LCD not any official airline protocol, is to carry what you need including your wallet in a bum bag.

Some of the larger ones can obstruct the seatbelt so if that is the case shove it in the seatpocket in front of you where it is easily grabbed in a hurry to leave. No CC would stop you carrying this down the escape slide.

Hope that helps :)

PS on a nice normal flight don't be the one who leaves their personal belongings in the seatpocket in front of you after I've just done the PA telling you not to do this.....the paperwork would be endless ;)

[Pontius Navigator]

LCD, last night I observed the bried being given. Also, being in row 24 I had a half view of the safety briefer. More than half of the passengers around me were otherwise engaged on more urgent pursuits.

As for the missing brief the flight before, I suspect it may have been a question of distraction as Mrs PN was briefed whereas there was no brief on my side.

As for drawing attention to it at the time, the problem is "what is the SOP?"

Having flown on 6 different carriers in the last 12 months before EZY, and not always being in sight of an emergency exit, it is not easy to be aware of the right procedure. Certainly seeing an FA holding her shoulder straps was a violation.

[lowcostdolly]

PN SOP's on everything vary between carriers I'm afraid which can seem very confusing to the pax who might have some interest in these.

We even have an SOP on how and when to check the loo's:D I bet FR do it differently as so would BA etc etc. We are all doing it properly though.

With regard to the self help exits Pax have to be briefed on these on whatever UK carrier. However I have worked for a carrier that basically said this is the exit and there's the instructions. At EZY you are meant to get a bit more than this as we do try and emphasise the self help bit (without scareing the pax) to try and tell them they may have some responsibility here.

In the eyes of the CAA both would be correct. You decide which is a better brief safety wise..... :hmm:

You don't need to be aware of every single carriers SOP's to flag something up if you personally are concerned. I would hope that any SCCM would listen anyway and either reassure you there was no issue or if there was go and deal with it. I know I would :ok:

I would also hope that when you write to EZY re the briefing failures on your previous flight that EZY would view that as a training/first stage warning issue for that particular crew member but I cannot be sure.

6chimes is right, many airlines will dismiss on this and this is why I would prefer to deal with the crew member myself if what you described initially had happened on my flight. I can be realy scary (and so can my written assesments) but they would not loose their job and would be more focused in future.

The FA holding her shoulder straps.......what an idiot in respect of her own personal safety and yes I could go on with that as well...... If you have an airline background you will know what I mean on that :)

[Final 3 Greens]

SOP's on everything vary between carriers I'm afraid which can seem very confusing to the pax who might have some interest in these.


This is probably true for those who do not fly much, but frequent travellers will quickly learn the different ways that things are done on different airlines.

Most of my clients have different business procedures, often the only time they are aligned is when they refer to using a standard computer software application such as SAP, because it has standard procedures and that is the same as an airline using the Boeing checklist.

What is really confusing to pax is when what should be universal processes differ, such as security.

I note that Jetset lady cannot use a DFT approved washbag at MAN. :sad:

Now that sort of thing gets confusing.

[Alsacienne]

Thank you very much for answering my post about evacuation and shoes. I appreciate that it might have seemed trivial but my mind is at ease as I'm having a foot flare at the moment!! And it did seem to be logical to keep footwear on if you needed to run on a rough surface or broken glass at a crash site.

THANK YOU. :ok:

[Nicholas49]

Just to follow up on what lowcostdolly said, I experienced an extremely unprofessional safety briefing on FR a few years ago. The cabin crew member announcing the brief was in fits of giggles and had to pause the announcement on several occasions in order to recompose himself. The demonstrating crew members weren't much better. The passengers watched in stunned disbelief.

On disembarkation, I asked to speak to the captain to report the unprofessional behaviour of his crew to him directly. I was refused permission to speak to him. Since the aircraft's commander wasn't interested, when I got home I decided to write directly to the airline's chief executive explaining exactly what had happened. I received a letter by return within two days stating that the cabin crew on that flight would be 'disciplined'. I don't know if that means dismissed, but if they were fired they deserved it, I regret to say.

So yes, the airlines do take breaches of safety regulations seriously, even if that means going further up the chain to get your complaint noticed.

[west lakes]

Though on the flip side I heard a similar safety brief on one of the legacy carriers.
It turned out that the cc member was making her very first safety announcement to a full flight, the giggles were nervousness.


Though we'll never know did you affect someones career who was only trying to learn - they all have to you know!

[PAXboy]

radeng - a very good point. Whilst not needing close medical support (yet!) I do need to keep migraine medication with me at all times and they are small. I adopted this policy some years ago:-

For Long Haul, I only loosen my shoes once established in the cruise and resecure them as soon as we start the let down. If I'm in a sleep suit, that also is for cruise only. On SH (up to 2 hours) I never loosen my shoe laces and often keep my jacket close, rather than in the locker.

Over the years, I have used various ways to keep the following items close to me during climb and descent: Passport; Wallet; Cell phone; Medication. Depending on duration of flight and class of travel these have been/are used occasionally in combination:
'Cargo trousers' with extra pockets on the legs.
Very light weight jacket with many pockets, as used by photographers. There are now a plethora of small zipped/velcro bags for pocket digital cameras. They hold a lot of stuff and often have belt loops, come in many shapes and sizes and are cheap.
Bum bags of various types. On evac this would be worn to the front.
Slim bags sold for use on the beach that have a shoulder strap. During climb/descent it has been around my neck, resting in front. Being slim I hope it would not get in the way. Don't use this now. Some are transparent.
Small grab bag, similar to a flat wash bag in size. This goes through security in my hand case and is then removed when I put the bag up/under. I have a selection of small bags bought over the years! At various times they have also held CD Walkman (now iPod) and my NC headphones. These extra items could be chucked out - IF enough warning.
The smallest and simplest I use is a child's pencil case. I have one that is of transparent plastic which helps during full security search. The thought is that I could slip the slim flat case inside my shirt before evac.I have not yet had to make an emergency evac but it is my plan to take these items with me - even if I transfer some of them to pockets at the time. Naturally, the situation will drive With the zero warning of G-YMMM I hope that I would simply grab the slim case and go. But, who knows what I will do if faced with the situation? I can only hope that planning, careful choice of seat row and counting rows will pay off.

The real problem with middle age is that - I diligently count the rows and then, can't remember how many rows I counted ...:sad:

[lowcostdolly]

Westlakes makes a good point here re CC having to learn. In training we get the gospel according to which ever airline and then we enter the real world dealing with pax.

I don't know what really happened on PN's flight re the overwing briefing but his latest post alludes to the CC being distracted.

At EZY the overwings are manned on boarding by the CC3. This is the position our newbies initially work in yet it can be one of the most stressful areas on the plane. After the initial stampede to get to these seats we often have to seperate pax from their handluggage quite assertively to comply with CAA regs. At some airports pax seem to squeeze their furniture into what passes for hand luggage and this gets past all gate channels somehow. It is then the poor newbie that gets landed with either having to find somewhere to stow this or telling the pax its going to be hold loaded which never goes down well. In between all this she has to be aware and may actually have to recall from training what passes for an able bodied pax permitted to sit there. She may even have to move someone and on top of all that she has to brief up to 12 pax all before push back.

Being able to do all this seemlessly comes with practice and experience, something like most proffesions you only achieve on the job.

I don't know if the CC in question on PN's flight was a newbie and I doubt he does either. Pax do not see the bigger picture in these cases and there is no reason why you should.

The SCCM though would know which is why it should be flagged up at the time if something does not appear right to any pax. If what was observed here was down to inexperience I would give some constructive feedback to the newbie and if it was the first of a 4 sector day go and help her at the overwings to guide her. If however the crew member was experienced I would kick their butt verbally and depending on their response to this they might even get a written assesment which would go to a CC manager.

Trouble is CC managers in any airline are renowned for not seeing the bigger picture either when they should. That can have serious consequences for any CC which may not always be deserved.

[6chimes]

LCD
:ok::D:D:D:D:D

6

[Pontius Navigator]

I have now fired off my 'complaints' or comments to Easyjet. In the process I also checked my rights and discovered that they had not complied with late-boarding rules.

At Paphos, once we got airside, we discovered that our flight had been delayed by 2 hr 35 min; in fcat it went off chocks 2 hr 50 min late.

There were no airport staff airside except for catering personnel. There was no Easyjet rep to explain our rights to free refreshments. The delay was due to crewing problems at Luton; the captain had had to be driven from Gatwick.

Clearly the delay was know for several hours but no attempt was made to inform or compensate passengers except for the delay message on the departures screen. :(

[Final 3 Greens]

PN

I thought you might find the extract below from the EU directive useful:

1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects a flight
to be delayed beyond its scheduled time of departure:

(b) for three hours or more in the case of all intra-Community
flights of more than 1 500 kilometres and of all other
flights between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres

I believe Paphos is between 1,500 and 3,500 km from London and the UK and Cyprus are both EC members.

[Pontius Navigator]

Ah F3G, quite right. The source I first looked at said 2 hours and I didn't spot the distance change to 3 hours. In this case EJ seemed to just escape censure at 2 hr 50 min but that is not good PR.

With no rep, albeit Servisair, they took it on chance that the flight would not exceed the magic 3 hours.

[lowcostdolly]

PN I have flown for EZY for a number of years. The only company employed reps I have ever known them have airside are the Pilots and CC. This is the reality in loco I'm afraid. It's us that do the PR :ok:

I'm assuming it was the Gatwick based Captain that gave you the explanation of why the flight was delayed once you had boarded. In fact I would lay money on that.

I doubt that servisair, even if they had been around, would have informed you of this even if they knew. Instead you would have got that old chestnut used by every airline "it's the late arrival of the inbound aircraft". I really hate that one :ugh:

It sounds to me if servisair did what they are meant to and nothing more. Unfortunately EZY only pay them to do this. They posted the delay on the boards and I assume these were updated re the ETD if necessary. They would not issue vouchers because you were not entitled to them......sorry!

You will get a response from one of our "Customer Services Champions" no doubt saying what I just have and reassuring you your comments will be passed to servisair.....

If you ever want to fly with us again I hope you have a better experience :)

[Pontius Navigator]

I once boarded a DanDare flight from Inverness at 8am en route London.

We boarded on time and no dramas except we were rather surprised to find that the aircraft was already half full as it was actually the 7am Glasgow flight as the London one had gone tech.

'We' got airborne on time but of course had to drop off our Glasgow pax so we would arrive in London about 30-40 minutes late.

However the Captain, having made the usual apology, then announced that the bar would be open and free. 8am! However there were a number of red neck oil workers on board and the whiskies were soon flowing.

[ulxima]

Honestly guys, I sometimes roll my eyes http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif when you post that we pax do not understand your operations and then you give a lecture that fails to take into account anything outside your narrow frame of reference.

I'll give you a clue, why would an airline open the door to accept a passenger?


:D:ok:
You are great F3G!
I fly roughly the same number of sectors per years as you do but I have a less variety of airlines, so safety briefing is pretty much the same.
Just last Tuesday I took a Golden Air Saab 340 from Bromma to Trollhätan (and return) and the whole safety briefing was in Swedish.
On the outbound leg the Flight Attendant come and briefed me in English (I was sitting on the emergency exit).
On the return flight I did not get any English briefing.
I then took the last Malmö Aviation flight of the day to Malmö and the briefing was in Swedish too (again no English briefing).
However before landing the Captain alerted the crew with a perfect:"Cabin Crew prepare for landing" :}

Ciao
Ulxima

[Nicholas49]

west lakes and lowcostdolly: I do take your point about cabin crew learning on the job and the need for understanding, but I assure you what I experienced was altogether different. The flight attendants on that flight were not remotely interested in delivering anything like a professional-standard briefing. My brother is a captain at FR and I spoke to him about this. I am not the complaining type, I only did it because I felt it was important that someone address the matter with the staff involved in the interests of safety.

[Alsacienne]

This weekend I flew with FR from FKB to STN on Friday 19 Feb and returned on Sunday 21 Feb.

There were five members of cabin crew on each occasion. On both flights the English recorded announcement was used. No foreign language announcement was made (even taped) for the Safety Briefing, despite the majority of passengers being French and German youngsters (half term and school trips).

Announcements were made after pushback on both occasions.

On the return leg, I was seated in row 30 and the demonstration was not clearly visible being at approx row 9 in the cabin.

The ONLY foreign language announcement was on the return leg for scratchcards!!!!

[TightSlot]

I believe (repeat, believe) that the requirement falls to the registered nationality of the airline/aircraft for the briefing i.e. a British registered airline/aircraft is only mandated to brief passengers in English, an Italian airline/aircraft in Italian etc. etc. Safety briefings in other languages are not mandated - although they might be a good idea.

Please let me know if that is incorrect - It is certainly what I remember being the case in the past, in my shorthaul days :)

Edit - P.S. - A non-English speaking pax travelling on a British airline, seated at the 737 over-wing exit (a 'self-help' exit as it is known) would have to be moved, as it would not be possible for a CC to adequately brief them before departure, or for them to understand CC instructions in an emergency.

[Businesstraveller]

Was on a BMI Baby domestic flight a few years back. Decided to quietly and unobtrusively get on with reading my book on the otherwise empty front row whilst the safety demo was given. At the end of the demo the steward at the front sat next to me and highlighted the fact that I hadn't paid close attention to the demo. As he was clearly on a role, I didn't attempt to interject and let him continue with then repeating the whole thing for my personal benefit. I started to feel liek one of the crew when he got to the end of the standard demo and started to tell me how to open the main door and how the slide operated - along with some other non-standard bits and bobs.

Anyway, since that day I've felt all safety briefings to be inadequate by comparison. In fact, I'm thinking of asking the pilot to give me a briefing on how to fly the plane next time...

[ulxima]

I believe (repeat, believe) that the requirement falls to the registered nationality of the airline/aircraft for the briefing


Given what has happened in the last three domestic flights I took in Sweden I believe you are right.

Ciao,
Ulxima

[lowcostdolly]

Tightslot you are indeed correct......as always :ok:

[Final 3 Greens]

What about Swiss aircraft, then? :}

Air Malta brief (using video) in English, which is interesting as it is not the main spoken language of the country.

[boardingpass]

A non-English speaking pax travelling on a British airline, seated at the 737 over-wing exit (a 'self-help' exit as it is known) would have to be moved, as it would not be possible for a CC to adequately brief them before departure, or for them to understand CC instructions in an emergency.

Not quite... In my British airline on some flights it would be impossible to find enough English speaking passengers. Therefore, we brief in other languages (all of my colleagues are at the very least bi-lingual) or make ourselves understood in some way. (Illustrations on the safety card / self help exit panels are useful).

[Pontius Navigator]

English is an official language of Malta and is also widely spoken.

[Final 3 Greens]

PN

English is an official language of Malta and is also widely spoken.

However, it is not classed as the national language of the Maltese islands, which has been Malti since the middle 1930s and before that Italian.

So an interesting anomaly in that an airline chooses a language which is not the main spoken tongue of it's country.

At a practical level, I agree most Maltese are at least fluent in English and some groups, such as the 'Tal Pepe' speak English as a preference.

[Dairyground]

I was interested to observe, on a BA A321 flight from MAN to LHR a few weeks ago, the person sitting next to me, a BA B767 captain in uniform, pay full attention to the briefing and afterwards study the safety card. And I didn't get the impression that he was just trying to set an example for the rest of us!

One thing that often puzzles me, is that we are told to check where our nearest exits are, but never told the row numbers for the overwing exits. Most of us can remember the row we are sitting in, and many could do the sums necessary to work out how many rows to count on our way to the exit.

[PAXboy]

It's a fair point Dairyground but my assumption is that - once you reach an exit row - you will KNOW it is the exit!!! The focus of everybody will be to that point, whether you are standing, crawling or have arrived via seat surfing, the exit will be obvious. I think ...!

[Pontius Navigator]

Dairyground, your Boeing captain was not intimitely knowledgeable of the Airbus, of course he would read the safety brief the same was as I would.

As for seat numbers, you give the great travelling public far too much credence for mathematical ability in this age of calculators and automatic tills.

How many times have you boarded an aircraft at the tail but had to disembark at the front? On several occasions I have had passengers barge their way past me to get to the tail despite being told it is closed.

In an emergency these passengers will not act rationally but head for where THEY think the nearest exit is and you can be pretty sure that th eone in the row in front of the overwing will head forward and one a couple of row back may go either way. :confused:

[lowcostdolly]

PN I agree. When I'm paxing I always count the rows but whether I would remember or could use this info in a smoke filled cabin where all the SLF who had failed to count them or even listen to the demo were panicking I don't know. There but for the grace of god I have never been in this situation.

I think on this forum the vast majority of pax do think about their own and others safety. Most pay attention to the safety brief. Unfortunately the vast majority of the travelling public do not. Even if we told them the exit row numbers many would not even register this info because they are too busy reading books, listening to Ipods etc in fact anything but the safety brief :=

On the Airbus (i've no idea re the Boeing) the emergency exits are illuminated on take off/landing so even if there was an incident at this time you would be able to find them. Have a look next time you fly on one......they are activated when the landing gear is deployed. In addition the floor lighting/photoluminescent strip would activate showing the exits.

That little sentence which passes most pax by about the nearest usable exit being behind you is good advice but very few ever look especially those sitting near the front because they think they will be able to leg it out the front door. That may not be the case if there is a fire or the slide fails to deploy......

[Final 3 Greens]

whether I would remember or could use this info in a smoke filled cabin where all the SLF who had failed to count them or even listen to the demo were panicking I don't know. There but for the grace of god I have never been in this situation.

You don't know how anyone is going to react, when faced with life threatening events.

I know, I've been there.

[MathFox]

With apologies to lowcostdolly and her colleagues, it's been some flights since I paid full attention to the safety briefing. It is a "show" I have seen before and on the third leg of the day I am less capable to bring up the concentration to watch attentively. However, I keep one ear open for airplane specific instructions (lifevest or seatcushion) and review the safety card.

Frequent flyers do know most of the drill and unless airlines start using a completely new model of belt-buckle, they'll know how to strap in and out. I think politeness to crew and new fliers requires that one shuts up to allow others to pay attention.

[speke2me]

From a PAX:

Yes that is my recent experience. Flew Swissair MAN-FCO via Zurich.

On the way out, briefings were in English and German. In fact on the 2nd leg from Zurich, a 3rd briefing was played in Japanese (off-tape of course). Looking round the cabin, there were indeed upwards of 30 Japanese tourists on board. I think the fact that an airline can figure this from the bookings and add an extra briefing language as appropriate is pretty cool.

On the way back, however, the leg from Zurich-MAN was a sub-contracted aircraft. A Scandinavian aircraft I think (not SAS). The briefing there was to hit the button (with crew demo of course) and was only delivered in English. How that fits in with a Scandinavian plane contracted by a Swiss operator I'm not sure?

Suffice to say as a PAX I think the safety briefing is important. I know many ignore it. On the better flights I have seen CC ask people to put their paper down and actually listen - good on you. Usually I make sure I get eye contact with a CC during the briefing to at least show that someone is listening. Despite the fact that us PAX have all flown a million times and apparently 'know better', I think survivability if it 'hits the fan' might be improved if people were to take it a little more seriously. In a plane with 200 on board, even a 1% improvement would mean 2 more would get through.

:)

[ulxima]

Yes that is my recent experience. Flew Swissair MAN-FCO via Zurich


BTW, did you pass through security scan at FCO arrivals?

Ciao
Ulxima

[speke2me]

Ulxima: no security scan arriving at FCO, just walked through baggage reclaim and straight out

[ulxima]

Ulxima: no security scan arriving at FCO, just walked through baggage reclaim and straight out


Thank you Speke.
Sorry for the silly question. I missed the point you made your way to FCO via Zurich and not directly from MAN.

Ciao
Ulxima