Future-proofing my house

[BOAC]

I'm thinking of dropping some extra cables from the roof and through the wall behind my TV unit.

Just a little confused by the welter of options, so can someone precis for me please?

It would seem sensible to allow for a sat TV cable/s - so, how many of those 'LNB' thingies, cables and wall sockets?

Do I need to bring the telephone line into this melee?

I'm assuming that with a link from the router I can link other PCs in the house media-wise?

If I eventually go for a computerised type of 'media centre', I assume I need an RJ45 or wi-fi from the router (attic)? Will one suffice? Anything else I need to think of to cover the next 10 years? Right now at 2.2mb, serious streaming is not an option, but, hey! Who knows what my £6 telephone surcharge will bring??

[Gertrude the Wombat]

What I've got in the wall, which is what the original builder installed more than half a century ago, is a piece of pipe (looks like bog standard half inch copper pipe) from the attic to where the TV goes.

Really really low tech. But completely flexible and future proof, as I can draw any cables I like through it.

Right now it contains a TV aerial downlead, a radio aerial downlead and a set of loudspeaker cables, think that's the lot.

And it's full. So the phone wires and the CAT5 from the cable modem to the router have to go through separate holes in the ceiling :( (As we don't watch TV I suppose I could take that wire out which would make a bit of room ...)

So, my recommendation these days would be to run two lengths of central heating pipe, then you've maybe got enough space for a while.

[hellsbrink]

BOAC

If you can get cables down and through the wall, why not just pull in some draw wires so IF you need to add anything then the means to do so is there.

You see, I have problems with putting in "links" for things like Sat/cable, lan, etc. Every joint/connection is a weak spot which will cause signal degradation so if you add an extra 2 unnecessary weak spots you could have issues.

Also, will the same cables be in use in 10 years? We don't know if various things will change to optical, or the cable type for lan, etc, will change, do we.

As far as sat cables for lnb's goes, it will depend on what sort of system you would be upgrading to. You can run a 3 lnb system (ugly and always a compromise) so that would mean 3 cables OR you could run a motorised dish so only one lnb cable PLUS the thicker cable for the power and positioning wires are needed. So by just running spare lnb cables, are you really "future proofing"?

Now, to expand on Gertrude's solution, IF the wall has been pulled apart for some reason why not fit a 2"x2" cable trunking in the wall there? That will give you so much space to play with for any future wiring as well as making said wiring easy to install.

PS. As far as lan goes you can also use the powerline solution which means absolutely no extra cables are needed as you use your existing electrickery wiring as your lan cables. It's reliable now

[MG23]

Also, will the same cables be in use in 10 years? We don't know if various things will change to optical, or the cable type for lan, etc, will change, do we.

Probably be nearly ten years before the average house is using ten-gigabit Ethernet, and cat 6 cables should be able to handle that at the lengths you'd use in an average house so long as you don't have too much interference (e.g. lots of other cables carrying high-frequency signals nearby). Cat 5e will almost certainly limit you to gigabit though.

For hundred-gigabit we probably are going to have to switch to fiber. But in home use that's likely to be another ten years down the line.

[hellsbrink]

MG, the use of words like "probably" shows my point perfectly. Nobody knows what the standard will be in 10 years time. After all, it wasn't all that long ago, relatively speaking, that an ADSL connection with a 512Mb/s download was considered "fast" in home use. Nowadays you can get up to 20Mb/s on a DSL line and Virgin are offering a 50Mb/s line through cable (not available to all). So what could happen in 10 years? Quite a lot!!

[seacue]

I'd strongly recommend an empty pipe. Half-inch seems awfully small. There should be no serious bends or one can't pull a cable. Be sure to leave a pull-cord in the pipe after pulling each cable. You'll want it later.

A house should last more than 10 years, so trying to outguess technology won't be a winner.

[MG23]

MG, the use of words like "probably" shows my point perfectly.

Sure, I doubt that many people ten years ago expected so many home users to have wireless networking, for example. I hadn't actually realised that hundred-gigabit Ethernet is so far along now, last I looked it was pretty much just a research program, now there's actual preliminary hardware... but I doubt that home users will need ten gigabytes per second on their network for quite some years, and that is the point where current wiring will be obsolete (looks like they do plan a copper cable implementation, but with 20 pins rather than 8).

[BOAC]

Thanks for all of that - I did not make it clear that I have an easy 'drop' route and it would merely be 'through' a wall (all concealed, just holes through the wall to drill). Also the plan would be to run all the stuff now and I am looking for something that is likely to keep me reasonably 'up-to-date' for those 10 years of advances. NB The '10 years' refers to my 'advances' (tempus fugit, and all that) and not technology, since I doubt in 10 years time I will be up to doing quite so much 'DIY', although running new cables in this location would not be a problem. As one ages it becomes difficult sometimes to remember WHERE the remotes are, which one does which 'box' and which button does what, so I suspect I will run out of 'upgradabililty' first:)

Back to 'hell's' post - do the three sat cables need three separate sockets, and how do they then feed into a sat box?

On to the 'boxes' - where are we in the 'affordable' world in media centres? Would a dedicated media thingy (you can see I'm 'cutting edge') be better than a W7 type unit? Is the verdict that Sat is 'lifed' and that terrestrial or streamed will win? Crystal balls at the ready.

Is there another cable after Cat6 in sight? I need well less than the max length for Cat6 in this house. I suspect the 'rural' speeds here, however, over the next 10 years will not need more than Cat5:rolleyes:

[hellsbrink]

Back to 'hell's' post - do the three sat cables need three separate sockets, and how do they then feed into a sat box?

I just used 3 as an example, you can go higher (I think there was a pic online of someone with a 9-lnb setup :eek: ). Also you need an elliptical dish as a normal circular one is unable to focus things properly, and the more lnb's, the bigger the dish.

As far as the connections go, then you would need a "switch". which will then automatically select the correct LNB for the channel you select.

Personally I would go for a motorised setup instead as with a multi-lnb installation you are never quite aligned properly as you are compromising the alignment to allow the multiple lnb's to have some chance of being "focussed" properly. With a motorised system the lnb is always aligned with the focal point on the dish. Now, when you start on the motorised route things can get more complicated as you will need a positioner, a receiver for the different transmission types from different broadcasters, etc. It can get complicated but you would need most of the same equipment with a multi-lnb setup if you wanted to get the most out of it.

I used to have a 90cm Gregorian dish with a motor up it's tail and I could get around 500 channels in the NE of Scotland in the pre-Sky Digital age.

[green granite]

I used to have a 90cm Gregorian dish with a motor up it's tail and I could get around 500 channels in the NE of Scotland in the pre-Sky Digital age.

Yes but how many of them had programmes worth watching on them? :E

[hellsbrink]

Yes but how many of them had programmes worth watching on them?

Compared to the channels I see are being broadcast on Sky nowadays, quite a lot!! Of course, many were watched for comedy value. Like the news broadcast on an egyptian channel where you saw a hand come into view handing the presenter a piece of paper with breaking news on it..........

Also, once you "zapped" your way through all the different channels there was usually something worth watching


(Apologies for thread drift)

[frostbite]

I would not consider using copper pipe for this purpose.

A decent sized plastic conduit pipe would, IMO, be more suitable/adaptable.

[seacue]

frostbite
For what little it's worth, I agree on the plastic pipe / conduit.

[green granite]

Unless you wish to shield the cables to prevent EMC problems.

[BEagle]

Of course, many were watched for comedy value.

Of course. Now tell me you didn't watch the Cin Cin girls on RAI's 'Tutti Frutti'....:E

Such fun in the days before bland Murdoch-vision.

[Keef]

I remember spending some millions of quid pulling twin coax all over a large building. Future proof for computers and all sorts, it was meant to be. Within five years, Cat 5 had come along and all that coax was wasted.

A one-inch placcy pipe is perfect. A drawstring is a good idea, but my "steel tape mouse" will pull wires a long way, and can cope with gentle bends in the pipe.

I'm about to move into a 16th Century house, and the future proofing there is something else :)

[hellsbrink]

Of course. Now tell me you didn't watch the Cin Cin girls on RAI's 'Tutti Frutti'....:E

Such fun in the days before bland Murdoch-vision.

Of course I didn't!! :E

I agree with you though, the old days were so much fun. Especially the Polish TV where everything was dubbed with the same monotonous voice of one man no matter how many different characters were speaking

[hellsbrink]

A drawstring is a good idea, but my "steel tape mouse" will pull wires a long way, and can cope with gentle bends in the pipe.

The problem with said "mouse" is that it will shred any other cables that are in the pipe should you be adding things after other cables are installed. Best to use drawstrings/wires

[seacue]

Keef,
I was once contacted by a fellow who had the job of wiring the Old Executive Office building for a local area network back in the early days of networking. While not built in the 16th century, it was built in the latter half of the 19th century as the State, War and Navy Building*. That's "Old" by Washington standards. Very solid with 12"-thick masonry interior walls. And it was a National Historical Landmark so the Preservationist had to approve everything.

* Yes, it originally housed the entire State Dept (Foreign Office), War Dept (Army) and Navy. Now, it doesn't even hold the President's Executive Office and a much larger building has been constructed up the street. The building was referred to by Mark Twain as "the ugliest building in America." Harry Truman called it "the greatest monstrosity in America."
Old Executive Office Building - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Executive_Office_Building)

[mixture]

Probably be nearly ten years before the average house is using ten-gigabit Ethernet

The "average house" doesn't need one-gigabit now ..... so I think your "nearly ten years" for 10g is a little optimistic. :cool:

More like "nearly ten years" for 1g is more like it.... :ok:

(That's not to say I would not recommend CAT6 over CAT5e in terms of future proofing though)

[Bushfiva]

I picked up 4 Cat7 cables earlier this evening for a switch that was installed a few days ago. You're right that nobody needs this stuff right now, nor is it cost-effective, but it's the same price in real terms as the Artisoft Lantastic stuff I pushed a couple of decades ago.

[MG23]

The "average house" doesn't need one-gigabit now ..... so I think your "nearly ten years" for 10g is a little optimistic.

I don't know: if you copy big files between computers on a regular basis, 100Mbit is nowhere near fast enough these days. I've been buying games online recently and then downloading the installers to my MythTV box which I use as my home server; installing a 2GB game from there onto my games PC over a 100Mbit ethernet is painfully slow.

Also, the price difference between 100Mb and gigabit is small these days so there's little reason to not buy the faster hardware even if you don't think you'll use it yet.

[mixture]

MG23,

Fair point. My stance was largely from the point of view that your average Joe is really only interested in "the internet" ..... for those sort of people, having a 1Gb connection to their broadband router is not really of much use.

But yes, if you regularly push large files around your local network, then by all means, get the fastest kit you can justifiably afford.

[Frelon]

In France and Spain all electrical wiring is done by using flexible plastic tubing (called Gaine in France) through which the wires are pulled with a 'tire-fils'. It is very simple to add extra cables when you want.

Have a look here (http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.axibat.com/images/gaine_icta.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.axibat.com/index.php%3FcPath%3D21_29%26osCsid%3D1f0e870e2b6b742ba7d1a53 b65245dff&h=380&w=425&sz=43&tbnid=HuE9Vls1RUQ8xM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGaine&usg=__EY_yHKJ5VPGICYB1Yc_AgBocFUs=&ei=Ey19S8L5LJz20wTGpMXQBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=11&ct=image&ved=0CDUQ9QEwCg) at the type of stuff. Really excellent.

[ORAC]

if you want to make sure you are future proofed for bandwidth put in a fibre-optic FDDI network. :cool:

[Saab Dastard]

ORAC,

That might have been true 15+ years ago, but it's been obsolete for ten years.

The Fiber Distributed Data Interface (FDDI) specified a 100-Mbps token-passing, dual-ring LAN architecture using fiber-optic cable. It scored well for range, reliability and throughput, but has been superseded by gigabit (and above) ethernet.

SD

[hellsbrink]

In France and Spain all electrical wiring is done by using flexible plastic tubing (called Gaine in France) through which the wires are pulled with a 'tire-fils'. It is very simple to add extra cables when you want.

Have a look here (http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.axibat.com/images/gaine_icta.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.axibat.com/index.php%3FcPath%3D21_29%26osCsid%3D1f0e870e2b6b742ba7d1a53 b65245dff&h=380&w=425&sz=43&tbnid=HuE9Vls1RUQ8xM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3DGaine&usg=__EY_yHKJ5VPGICYB1Yc_AgBocFUs=&ei=Ey19S8L5LJz20wTGpMXQBQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=11&ct=image&ved=0CDUQ9QEwCg) at the type of stuff. Really excellent.

It's the same here, except it's called preflex, and it ain't always so easy to pull another wire in. I should know, I work with the bloody stuff every day

[green granite]

Yer cant beat the old metal trunking with screw on lids. :E

[HuntandFish]

Wireless is the way to go

[Loose rivets]

There's a Youtube or sumsuch showing a bloke wiring his - not all that big - house. He put in ~47km of wire.


My Essex home was rather rambling for a modern-ish home. It had suspended floors downstairs as well, and I sent my nipper along the crawl-space to take the then wired T/V remote to the furthest point. Wouldn't get me in there:}

I put in a vast harness of wires that I got from a second-hand military type place. Phones all round the house - in the days that we were only supposed to have one. Everything worked...until data speeds had to be considered.

Early modem use, fine - with the connection direct to BT. Totally useless when the harness was reintroduced. Very disappointing. Hours of dropping wires down cavities and the like, all wasted.

[hellsbrink]

I remember these days, LR, my dad used me as the "nipper".


But that was a LONG time ago

[BOAC]

What is the panel's opinion of the internet con speed required for streaming HD TV?

[green granite]

About 20 Megs which at the moment means a cable connection :(

[BOAC]

Hmm - 10 years definitely too early for this rurality.:)

[mixture]

What is the panel's opinion of the internet con speed required for streaming HD TV?

According to BBC iPlayer diagnostics (BBC iPlayer - Diagnostics (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/diagnostics)) 3.5Mbps is their minimum HD speed.

[BOAC]

Sorry for late acknowledgment, mixture - 3.5 puts it off for a few years here!

Moving on - any comments on going into the media centre world? I gather it is possible to avoid WWoW (Wonderful world of Windows) and that Linux has a few options. My thoughts would be to put a simple media 'box' in with the tele/hi-fi with a feed from the router. I really am quite in the dark on this topic, so any simple pointers would bve nice. Where is AppleMac on this? I have a friend with some Apple plug-in thingy that apparently runs it all via an Iphone anywhere in the house he can plug the module into a wall mains socket.

[mixture]

Hi BOAC,

Are you asking about sending ("streaming") normal TV around the house via your computing setup ?

If so, this is something I looked into not so long ago, but never actually put into practice because it all seemed a bit fiddly. It is possible, but probably "easer said than done" for your average home computing user (probably could be done via a Mac if you don't mind the command line).

Or have I misunderstood ?

[BOAC]

Yes, plus the whole idea (as I understand it) of having access to music etc plus general internet access everywhere for streaming all sorts of media around the house like my 'example' friend with his Iphone controlled thingy.

Without creating a riot, should I be 'going Mac'?:confused:

[Mike-Bracknell]

As regards the internet link, in the next 3 years you're likely to see VDSL and/or FTTH and/or Virgin's HFC network hit your doorstep, so i'd personally run a couple of CAT5e cables, a couple of fibre tails, and a couple of RG58 F-type terminated coax strands between the outside BT spur/cable manhole and your designated interior edge device.
:ok:

[green granite]

As regards the internet link, in the next 3 years you're likely to see VDSL and/or FTTH and/or Virgin's HFC network hit your doorstep,

Not living in the country we're not I'm afraid. :(

[BOAC]

Noted, thanks, Mike - and excellent guidance, but gg obviously lives in't country like me:)

Not sure that Virgin networking has any idea where I live - I have friends who are still on dial-up due to no broadband. Shock/horror and even Gordon's £6 a year will not bring any high-speed ducting our way.