S-92 to deliver UK SAR-H service

[sprucemoose]

As expected, the CHC/Thales team has been named preferred bidder for SAR-H. Contract completion expected later this year - if the Strategic Defence Review doesn't get involved presumably!

Team Soteria wins UK's SAR-H deal with proven S-92 (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/02/09/338205/team-soteria-wins-uks-sar-h-deal-with-proven-s-92.html)

[mr fish]

no no NO..., we want a unproven airframe, preferably not yet flown or even on a drawing board,
a 10+ year development overrun with a 3x cost overspend.

THEN cancel and buy S92.

have the fools learned nothing:(

[Sky Sports]

More detail on the Rotorheads forum. :ok:

[Aerouk]

I wonder why they've ditched Prestwick and went for Glasgow. I would have thought Prestwick would have offered them better operational space and lower prices.

[vecvechookattack]

Is it going to Glasgow Prestwick or Glasgow International?

Maybe because Glasgow Prestwick is owned by a New Zealand Company where as Glasgow international is owned by BAA (Which is owned by some Spanish Bloke and his Canadian Mate)

[Aerouk]

It's going to Glasgow International (BBC News - HMS Gannet to lose search and rescue operations (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8507285.stm)), they get to do pretty much whatever they want to at Prestwick so I'm slightly gob smacked that they've decided to ditch it.

[vecvechookattack]

The move places the navy base under serious threat

What Navy Base? Gannet SAR flight is a conglomerate of about 6 portakabins glued together. Hardly a Navy base.






Sikorsky S92 Helicopter. The S92A is providing reliable service internationally in the oil and gas industry and Search and Rescue with the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) on Shetland and the Isle of Lewis in Northern Scotland. The helicopter has a cruising speed of 145 knots, with a radius of operation in excess of 260 nautical miles. In comparison with the current SAR Sea King helicopters, the new aircraft is approximately 30 per cent faster and has approximately 70 nautical miles greater radius of operation. The cabin that is over 1.7 metres high,has a large door on the starboard side and a ramp at the rear which will allow easy access for casualties and hospital care equipment such as incubators. The SAR-H S92A has a fully equipped purpose built paramedic station including piped mains oxygen and an electrical power circuit within the cabin that allows immediate life-saving care to be administered day and night.


Only midgets need apply

[charliegolf]

Only midgets need apply


Won't they struggle to see over the coaming; or will they have yellow booster cushions?

CG

[barnstormer1968]

Surely the booster cushions will be orange, to match the new corporate livery:E

Lets not start having mixed equipment already.
Plus, think of the benefits.......We could also have a fleet of midget submarines to help in the rescues, with no need for extra crews!
And, maybe we could re engine the choppers with midget gems.:E

Still, that's enough small talk for now, must get back to work.

[renfrew]

I don't understand the move from Prestwick to Glasgow either.
I presume that the majority of call-outs are to the west of Prestwick.
True,the airports are only 30 miles apart but in bad weather it could seriously affect response times.

[bracketsew]

Its not about the lives of people any more, Its all about short term cost cutting! They will use the excuse that the S-92 is faster, just like their excuse for sending Boulmer and Chivenor day only! Its a faster aircraft! Or might it be because they realise that they cant possibly provide the same quality service they get now for the price of the contract. Remember Soteria has to make a profit out of this too, otherwise its a pointless exercise for them!!

[ChristopherRobin]

having tried to get from Glasgow Intnl to Prestwick in bad weather, it is not for the faint-hearted...

But wait... who's to say they need to go west from Prestwick at all? With CHC in the running for winning the Irish SAR contract, due to be announced v. soon, maybe there's been a deal....

[CirrusF]

The helicopter has a cruising speed of 145 knots,

It will be interesting to see how it performs in the mountains. Where I live in south of France, the Securité Civile were given EC-145s to replace their old Ecureils. The speed of the EC-145 is great for maritime rescue, but in the mountains the high disk-loading is a real handicap in the snow because of the snowstorm it kicks up and avalanches it sets off.

[mtoroshanga]

Ref the ramp giving access to the cabin, the last S92 I saw had a bulkhead between the baggage bay, which was what the ramp accessed,and the main cabin. Are the SAR ones different?

[grandfer]

I suspect that once Chivenor & Boulmer have been down-graded to 12 hour status in 2012 ,then there will be no aircraft based at either location ,instead I think that one cab will be flown in daily from another location . As in Chivenors case , the powers that be say that during night-time rescues the area can be easily reached from either Valley , Culdrose or Portland ! Tell that to the relatives of anyone who has only minutes to survive in the cold waters of the Bristol Channel .

:hmm::hmm::mad:

[bracketsew]

Isn't portland day only too? I think it is and will remain that way!

[grandfer]

On BBC Radio Devon today it said that Portland was one of the 3 bases that would cover the Chivenor area at night , that's the BEEB for you .:ugh:

[bracketsew]

Im sure that when the ministers statement cane out, the three twelve hour flights were going to be Portland, Chiv and Boulmer! I may be wrong but if it is true that leaves a massive hole in the south west! How they can justify that, i do not know but obviously the money saving is more important than a robust SAR coverage. Another question to ask is weather or not the aircraft will be available for the essential med transfers they currently spend a good amount of time performing? With the reduced night time coverage, will they be able to allow an aircraft out of the area to take a time critical patient who is in need of specialist care?

[grandfer]

I can't see that the new contractor will be available for medivac flights as I assume they will be purely SAR dedicated unless some additional agreement or contract is taken out with individual NHS Ambulance services. However , if the medivac or casevac flight involves a road traffic accident then I would assume that payment for the flight might have to be claimed from an individuals Motor Insurance Policy , this is of course my own personal view .
:hmm:

[west lakes]

As a comparason, hospital transfer flights by HEMS are chargeable by the operator to the hospital requesting the transfer

[Bob the Doc]

But HEMS response for RTCs is generally free (funded by the charity operating the aircraft)

This is one of the distinctions between HEMS and Air Ambulance

[pasptoo]

TOTALLY agree about the weather and everything else that would be wrong about a "real" international airport.

The real reason for the move is CASH !!! :oh: Prestwick want too much money from the new supplier. They have fleeced the Navy Cash Cow for too long, and are about to get sour milk!:ugh:

[west lakes]

This is one of the distinctions between HEMS and Air Ambulance

Confused now. I was always under the impression that HEMS was the generic term for the Air Ambulance services (charities)
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!

[renfrew]

If Boulmer is going to be day only,are they thinking about trying to cover some of the east coast from Glasgow?

[west lakes]

some of the east coast from Glasgow?Given that the Lake District already sees assets from Boulmer, Valley & Prestwick I would suggest anything is possible.

(during the recent floods Chivenor even attended)

[vecvechookattack]

Confused now. I was always under the impression that HEMS was the generic term for the Air Ambulance services (charities)
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!

We have been done this route some time ago but essentially its like this (And this is my opinion and my definition as I can't remember what ATP 10D says but Thats the authoritive document)

A Rescue is a transfer of a person or persons from a hostile environment to a safe environment.
A CASEVAC is the transfer of an injured person from a safe environment to a medical facility.
A MEDEVAC is the transfer of an injured person from one medical facility to another medical facility.

Does it matter ? Yes indeed because in the UK it all depends on who pays for it.

Gannet SAR flight is the busiest SAR flight in the country. However, most of their jobs are CASEVACs or MEDEVACs. Now, that doesn't demean the fact that they are busy in any shape or form, thats just the way it is. But, does this contract (when it is written) allow for the new SAR aircraft to conduct CASEVAC and MEDEVAC ? i.e. if a lady is pregnant and she lives on the isle of Arran - is the new SAR cab going to scramble from Glasgow (in $hitty Weather - and fly under the Bridge) to go and transfer her to a hospital. At the moment the answer is yes. What will be the answer in 3 years time?

[Sun Who]

Make of this what you will.
Defence Analytical Services and Advice: Annual Military Search and Rescue Statistics (http://www.dasa.mod.uk/applications/newWeb/www/index.php?page=48&pubType=1&thiscontent=400&PublishTime=09:30:00&date=2010-02-04&disText=2010&from=listing&topDate=2010-02-04)

Sun

[Scott Diamond]

The Glasgow move can be seen as fairly reasonable. Most call-outs head up that way - and quite a significant amount of them have to go pick up docs from the SECC carpark anyway!

[vecvechookattack]

I'm almost in agreement. My issue with the move is purely social. The CO of HMS Gannet is a Lt Cdr WAFU. It is the only job in the RN where the CO is a Lt Cdr WAFU. CO Gannet SAR flight is probably one of the best jobs in the RN....certainly one of the best jobs a wafu can aspire to.

Gannet has no military accommodation and so all the boys live ashore on the Scambro scheme - Fab...a complete win.

Gannet SAR flight is unique in so much as they boys there have little if any secondary duties. They don't have Duties to do, No division (bar a small cadre). The local run ashore (Ayr) is pretty hoofing ....some good pubs.

In essence, Gannet SAR flight is one of the best jobs in the RN and sadly it is going. A shame....

But because HMS Gannet has another role.....will it be saved? How about we form a Squadron of Merlin.... Maybe we could call the new Squadron 819.... ????

[pasptoo]

"If Boulmer is going to be day only,are they thinking about trying to cover some of the east coast from Glasgow?"

Why not? Each unit cover jobs in the others "area" anyway. so why would it be any different - if the ARCC need some one they will surely task the nearest suitable asset. Prestwick have already been on the east coast and infact just off Boulmer in the past. Likewise Boulmer come over to the west coast if Prestwick are out of area.


" is the new SAR cab going to scramble from Glasgow (in $hitty Weather - and fly under the Bridge) to go and transfer her to a hospital. At the moment the answer is yes. What will be the answer in 3 years time? "

Why not (again)? why fly under the bridge when the S92 could climb out IFR then let down over the water?

[lsh]

Oi!
Lets have less of that Midget bashing!
Shame on you Charlie-Golf!!
lsh
:E

[Scott Diamond]

How sad for the local MPs. All they are concerned about with the move is the 'loss of jobs' and loss of business to the little corner shop nearby. Pull your heads out and look at the advantages of the proposed relocation - closer to 4 of the most commonly used hospitals (RAH, Southern General, Golden Jubilee & the Childrens one [forget the name of it]). Instead of Seaking boys coming out of Prestwick and gingerly navigating the A737 to get to the Southern General to pick up doctors then go on scene, the doctors can quickly drive to the new SAR base and get on with the other crews - and launch straight out. Screw your corner shop, thats just a matter of life.

[Tallsar]

The SAR-H programme is all about value for money over the 30 year contract -so where possible you don't spend money you don't need to if its not in the customer's requirements, or contract yourself into uncertainty which might lead to unexpected bills. Once the contract is signed- thats it for the 30 years! So if a base is forecast to be too expensive (particularly as compared to the other 11) - best you move down the road to no effect on SAR ops but immense improvement in cost of operation.

As for medevacs - yes they are in the requirement too...once in the publc domain people will be surprised just how detailed the requirements are and how demanding (rightly so) they are on the contractor. That said - as the air ambulance system improves further (perhaps in to night ops) than the requirement on the SAR-H service may reduce - we shall see. Remember too that the NHS/DofH pays the MoD/DfT for the Medevac service using SAR heloe (mostly at night) and has done for many years - so that will not change either.

As for Chiv and Boulmer on daylight only - the rescue stats for many years show a very limited need for night ops close to those bases compared with all the other (high risk) areas in the UK which are closer to the other 10 bases. Indeed most of the time the rescue provision is by our immensely capable RNLI (we have more lifeboats per coastal mile than any other nation on earth and they do 20 times more maritme rescues than the SAR helo service per annum)) and the coast guard cliff rescue teams, as well as ever increasing police and air ambulance assets. In a contracting game where value for money is all to the customer it is essential that "non essential" resources are not scoped into the contract which over 30 years would add considerably to the cost.....in a fixed price (inflation proofed) budget which although very large is not open ended. While I personally think HMG should have paid for a 24 hr service out of these places as a contingency but it looks as though this is not going to happen unless the incoming government is prepared to fund the SAR-H budget by the few percent more to make it so. Remember if it were to happen there would be a need for a few more aircrews, relevant spares holdings and probably at least 1 more aircraft....so it is in the multi million cost arena over 30 years).

What we also don't know yet is how many cabs will be in the total Soteria SAR-H S92 fleet -so that will indicate what flexibility there might be to generate additonal ac beyond the 12 that will be on nominal standby across the UK. I think most people will be impressed with the availabilty requirements placed on Soteria from its standby aircraft, and what penalties are in the contract to incentivise availability levels way above that previously achieved by single aircaft at each base. For years excellent military first standby aircraft availability has always relied on the use of 2 or sometimes 3 aircraft (or more in the RN's case!) at each base ....a much better ratio is achieveable with modern platforms operating under a EASA approved engineering regime. Watch this space.....

Cheers

[charliegolf]

Lets have less of that Midget bashing!


Stop griping. You had all those years of being able to stand up (on a chair, if you needed to check a mag plug) in a Puma without banging yer 'ed.

CG:ok:

[newbie55]

Quote:
'Gannet SAR flight is unique in so much as they boys there have little if any secondary duties. They don't have Duties to do, No division (bar a small cadre). The local run ashore (Ayr) is pretty hoofing ....some good pubs.

In essence, Gannet SAR flight is one of the best jobs in the RN and sadly it is going. A shame....'

Sounds a lot like the standard life for your average crab pilot!!!
Good to see that the grass will be maintained greener for the light blue!

[Bob the Doc]

This is one of the distinctions between HEMS and Air Ambulance

Confused now. I was always under the impression that HEMS was the generic term for the Air Ambulance services (charities)
Certainly in this part of the world the same airframe (G-HEMS at the moment) does both roles i.e. attends emergencies and is used for hospital transfers!

Most, if not all Air Ambulance charities do both HEMS and AA work. The distinction is in the service provided and in the exemptions granted to a/c operating in these roles. HEMS is where the a/c is providing a medical service by air (paramedics and doctors to the scene and then transport out) whereas AA is just the transport part where the a/c becomes an ambulance with a rotor, frequently used for transfers and transport from remote areas where a land crew may not be able to extract the casualty in a timely fashion.

The difference is that if you are landing on a HEMS mission (life or limb saving) the you can land in a 2D site. If you are on AA then you can't. there are other differences as well but that is how I was taught to interpret the rules.

Air Ambulances doing transfers - does the charity get any money? I think the ambulance service does but not sure whether the charity does or not

[chcoffshore]

It will be interesting to see how it performs in the mountains


It already does!


Bulkhead


There is no bulkhead between the ramp and the cabin on the SAR aircraft.

[west lakes]

Air Ambulances doing transfers - does the charity get any money? I think the ambulance service does but not sure whether the charity does or not
Yes (up here certainly) subject to negotiation between the departure & arrival hospital as to which one pays

(I've heard a figure of £3k mentioned from here to the NE)

[Bertie Thruster]

Any flight (including transfers, organ movement and carriage of medical staff) can be done as HEMS, where immediate and rapid transportation is essential. Anything else is "air ambulance" and is a normal public transport task.



Our local HEMS charity does not charge for any HEMS transfers (or 'air ambulance' transfers, if the casualty is resident in the funding area of the charity). 'Air ambulance' transfers of non residents to other parts of the country are charged by the charity.

[grandfer]

It's interesting to note that since the announcement that Chivenor is going to a 12 hour service in 2012 the Devon AA has started a big campaign (supported by BBC Radio Devon) to raise funds to try & buy a new & faster Helo to replace the Bo105 that is based in north Devon , any connection there ?
If it's going to be a 12 hour daylight service only , what happens in winter when we perhaps have only 7 or 8 hours of daylight & in the summer we may have as much as 16 hours per day ?

:suspect::hmm:

[grandfer]

Just read in the North Devon local rag the 12 hour cover will be 9am to 9pm .
:ok:

[vecvechookattack]

ust read in the North Devon local rag the 12 hour cover will be 9am to 9pm .

Is that regardless of the time of year? Seems a bit odd.

[grandfer]

Perzakly what I was thinking , perhaps what hours can't be used in the winter months can be credited to the summer :ok::ok:

[vecvechookattack]

That would make sense to me.... Doesn't make sense to be on watch at 9pm in the winter and even less sense to pitch up at 9am in the summer....

[3D CAM]

Portland has been 0900-2100hrs, except for the first few months 0800=2000, since Bristow took over from the Navy in 1995. All year round!! Civvy duty hours, you'd better get used to it! The finer points escape me but something to do with not being able to do 12hrs if starting before 0800, I think.:confused: Also more time to get the make up sorted for the T.V. :E
3D

[arandcee]

granfer, just for info the Devon Air Ambulance trust currently runs two EC135s, the original machine was retired some years ago after sterling service. One of them is leased however so the Radio Devon appeal is to purchase a second helicopter to replace the leased one.

As a Devonian living near Chivenor the 'yellow helicopters' will be sorely missed. They are part of North Devon and it won't be the same not seeing them overhead.

[Shackman]

Is it me or are the stats 'skewed' towards the S-92, and only compared against the Navy Sea King variants. Surely the MK 3/3a has a greater radius of action than the S-92, and does the 92's radius include at least 20 mins on task for winching etc (or even longer for searches now that top cover MPA is no longer available). There also seem to be other anomalies when looking on Sikorsky's own website.

I have nothing against the new aircraft (in fact I would quite like to fly it) but comparing it with the oldest and heaviest aircraft makes the arguments a little strange - but no doubt ideal to 'sell' it to the politicians, press and public who do not ask 'searching' questions.

[grandfer]

Thanks for putting me straight on the Devon AA current fleet "arandcee" , thought I saw a Bo105 going in to the NDDH recently - the recent cold weather must have got to my brain . I'll also miss the Big Yellows skimming over my roof heading out to the Bristol Channel area - it's reassurring to know that they are there looking after peoples safety , not always over the sea .
:ok:

[scottishbeefer]

Why is it that folks persist in saying GANNET mainly does medtxfrs? Last year the boys did 447 jobs and the majority were rescues, although they led in every other stat as well.

Tasking is mainly north (Lochaber/Glencoe) or south (Galloways/N Lakes) - mainly mountain jobs, and east/west is quite a bit less but we're also doing more work in the Cairngorms and SE Borders with snags at Lossie/Boulmer. 45% of all jobs are at night and almost always on NVG but the Sea Searcher radar is still doing us proud for those night/IMC transits. Not sure how you get across the Crinan Canal area with an S92 in IMC? That might be cutting off a major transit route when the weather's grim. Presumably the FIKI clearance is good?

I'm afraid that there's the same no of secondary duties at Gannet as any other RN sqn (such is life). It's not true to say it's the only RN unit with a Lt Cdr WAFU as CO (what about 705, 750, 771, 849, 854, 857?)

PWK is mighty expensive though, beyond what you might expect for a regional airport and I'm sure GLA is cheaper in the long-run. The RN is looking at options for FOB's for Merlin/whoever.

Agree with disc-loading comments. My MRT contacts tell me they're never keen to work with the S92's due to downwash and a few other reasons.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Is it me or are the stats 'skewed' towards the S-92


It's not you. The ROA is just the most glaring example of how the press release is economical with the truth. And to achieve the stated 260nm ROA for the S-92, the aux tanks need to be fitted, which wasn't the case when the S-92 debuted at Stornoway - resulting in the very perverse situation where, at least once, a Sea King from Lossie staged through Stornoway en route to 15 West because the S-92 couldn't go as far out!

[Cabe LeCutter]

Grandfer
Last time I visited the guys at their base at Eaglescott, they were using a Bolkow so I suspect that what you saw a relief aircraft.

Heads down, look out for the flack

[vecvechookattack]

I'm afraid that there's the same no of secondary duties at Gannet as any other RN sqn (such is life). It's not true to say it's the only RN unit with a Lt Cdr WAFU as CO (what about 705, 750, 771, 849, 854, 857?)

Do those at HMS Gannet have to do the Duty Leading Hand duties? Duty Petty Officer? How about Officer of the Day? Air Officer of the Day? DLC(F) ?

705, 750 etc, etc are all Squadrons. The Boss of GSF is unique (in the FAA) in so much as he is the Commanding Officer of HMS Gannet.

Had a chat with the boys at Lee and Portland over the past couple of days and they can't wait to get the 92... they dont like the AW aircraft they currently fly.

[scottishbeefer]

Vec

Quite right about the Boss being CO of HMS Gannet as well as the squadron - it does bring a broader range of responsibilities, even for a small outfit like Prestwick. There's an OOD requirement but the DLC(F) is incorporated into one of the all-flights authorisers being contactable.

Although there's no DPO etc, those duties are provided for by a much bigger pool of manpower at say Culdrose or Yeovs than Gannet has, so I think it's a simlar workload ratio. I'm referring to the usual stuff like DO, Visits, Ops, DOps, blah blah.

[calli]

Typical RoA of Stornoway S92 is 250nm with 30 mins on scene and fuel to carry out instrument approach on return - at least equivalent to Mk3 Sea King.

The S92 has many good points and a few things that need to be worked around. Despite comments on high disc loading, all tasked mountain jobs have been successfully completed and there are benefits to being able to lift more MRT troops in one go. Initial scepticism (sp?) from the MRT has largely been removed by training and liaison, though perhaps Glencoe/Lochaber teams have not had as much exposure to the 92 as the more northern teams.

Increased speed (140kts) is of course a great improvement, as is the ability to hop over the top of the mountains in airframe icing conditions (still making 135kts TAS). NVG will increase capability massively, and that will come (the sooner, the better).

Everyone seems very suspicious of the 92, but I would not swap back to the Sea King in a million years. It would probably be tedious of me to go into all the increased safety features of the 92, so I won't.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

The S92 has many good points


Absolutely - what a shame, then, that the press release has chosen to 'sex up' its abilities, which is totally counterproductive when trying to win over the SARasauruses (who, no doubt, were equally truculent when someone suggested replacing the Wessex with the Sea King...).

[[email protected]]

Calli - for 'at least the equivalent of the Sea King' read 'exactly the same capability as a 50 year old helicopter' - very impressive for a new generation helo :rolleyes: except that in order to get that RoA, you have to have the aux tanks fitted which reduces the cabin capacity. Can you get 17 pax seated in an S-92 with the aux tank fitted?

The safety features of the 92 were extensively lauded when the aircraft was pushed as a SAR machine and they traded heavily on its heritage, being based on the Blackhawk drive train etc. Unfortunatley the 'meeting new airworthiness and certification standards' sales pitch didn't mention that the 30 min run dry capability required under FAA pt 29 had been dodged by Sikorsky rather than complied with as highlighted by the Newfoundland crash.

Now to be fair, most are expecting the Soteria aircraft to be a B model with a better designed aux tank, new oil filter housing with 6 fixing points and possibly even a whole new MRGB to cope with the MRGB foot cracking issue but there is no guarantee this will be the case, especially since they will need to be in service next year for the transition to start in 2012.

It is about time Soteria did start to put their plan into the public domain if they want to avoid speculation and scuttlebutt.

[TwoStep]

No S-92B in the pipeline from what I understand but there will be some changes to the aircraft such as a new extended range fuel tank in the cabin, and a higher MTOW from 26,500 pounds to above 27,000 pounds.

[Hilife]

Crab

Unfortunately the 'meeting new airworthiness and certification standards' sales pitch didn't mention that the 30 min run dry capability required under FAA pt 29 had been dodged by Sikorsky rather than complied with as highlighted by the Newfoundland crash.

To comply with FAA/JAR 29.927, the OEM doesn’t require a 30-minute run-dry gearbox.

29.927 amendment 26, 10/3/1988:

c) Lubrication system failure. For lubrication systems required for proper operation of rotor drive systems, the following apply:

(1) Category A. Unless such failures are extremely remote (with no moving parts i.e. static seals just like any other helicopter oil filter housings and an oil cooler bypass provision, why should the OEM or FAA/JAA not accept that such failures would be extremely remote?), it must be shown by tests that any failure which results in loss of lubricant in any normal use lubrication system will not prevent continued safe operation, although not necessarily without damage, at a torque and rotational speed prescribed by the applicant for continued flight, for at least 30 minutes after perception by the flightcrew of the lubrication system failure or loss of lubricant

I stand to be corrected, but I do not believe either the AS332 Series (like the S-92, has a cooler bypass option) or EC225 has a Normal Use 30-Minute Run-Dry certification/capability. I accept the 225 does have an emergency glycol lubrication system, but this is not a Normal Use system.

The only helicopter I know of with a true 30-minute Run-Dry gearbox is the Sikorsky UH-60M, but I stand to be educated if others exist.

As for the Cougar incident, you might do well to await the final report before blame is apportioned for this incident.

[seniortrooper]

Hilife, you have to excuse CrabSAAvn for his inaccuracies. He has no working knowledge of anything civilian especially when it comes to regs.

Crab: How do you expect the 'preferred bidder' to share its secrets to all when the contract isn't signed? :ugh:

[MarkD]

Sikorsky's CH-148 (H-92) contract with Canadian Forces delayed (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/sikorsky-faces-more-setbacks-in-delivery-of-new-helicopters/article1470533/) - again.

[grandfer]

So what happens now with the "Team Soteria" (or whatever it's called) bid for the SAR-H contract now that "Equity Partner" (whatever that means thesedays) RBS has posted losses of £3.6 billion ?
I expect this will get conveniently brushed aside by the Broon one , surely this has to have some effect on the 2012 start of the transition to privatising the UK SAR business ?

:mad::mad:

[vecvechookattack]

Soteria reveals new look for rescue helicopters | Shephard Group (http://www.shephard.co.uk/news/rotorhub-com/soteria-reveals-new-look-for-rescue-helicopters/5847/?)


Very smart

[Double Zero]

May I make a point as an aerial photographer with some time over the coasts, and also a qualified yachtie...

For a start, I was horrified by the steps taking out lighthouse lookouts, and coastguard huts - separate issues.

As a yachtie on the south coast, Portland Bill / Race is our personal Cape Horn, fine on a good day, but a killer if the forecast and one's judgement is slightly out.

Yes, talking from experience a long time ago, took years off my life but no fatalities & no SAR involved, but people have often called out for less, and to be honest if my crew ( novice but unphased girlfriend ) or boat had an injury or something nasty, which we were offered the opportunity of more than once, we would have been in deep s****.

As I understand it, there's a helo / SAR base at Portland or nearby ( brainfade, I forget the name, HMS Osprey ? ); believe me it's essential for SAR, for anything venturing on the seas around.

I may add, I'm sure most will have seen the film ' The Cruel Sea ' - the shots of the corvettes & other warships pitching half out of the water were filmed in Portland Race, and the Ships Pilot instructions say even big ships should avoid it; then on a calm day when one has calculated the tides right, one might say ' what's the fuss ' !

Lookout coastguards, a true 1st line and lifesavers, has passed on to amateurs who do it when they can, a move which I and other seagoing types consider nothing short of criminal; surely this country can afford a few people to keep a manual 24/7 lookout...

For both life saving and anti-smuggling purposes, I despair that we can't deploy a few proper forces people ( NVG's etc ) to man these places - relative luxury to most service people though as the lookout positions - even if now mainly defunct - are well known a roving patrol is called for.

Back to SAR, we need & appreciate what you do, as present things stand, though I'm very pro-defence and am ex-Harrier worker, I have only wondered why the hell ALL hospitals don't have helicopters, not funded by charity, let alone the forces needs which are obviously great.

At my sailing club we're currently being hassled by a ' little empire ' connected to the local council who want to build a cyle path among our beloved & hard paid for boats, while literally a few feet away is a wide footpath; gits are making well paying lifestyles out of such daft things ( on OUR money ) meanwhile hospitals and schools are closing down...

If SAR goes private, I and a lot of others - fishermen, yachties, oil rig types etc, are presuming - and hoping desparately in more ways than one - that ex-services people will be at the controls.

[viking25]

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[blimp22]

If SAR goes private, I and a lot of others - fishermen, yachties, oil rig types etc, are presuming - and hoping desparately in more ways than one - that ex-services people will be at the controls.


Double zero....With respect I think your a bit behind the loop. SAR is going private in 2012 using civil and military crews. HMS Osprey closed some years ago and the flight you see there now is a civilian outfit operated by CHC Ltd. on behalf of the Maritme and Coastguard Agency. The civilian crews along with their ex-service colleagues are equally capable SAR operators and operate out of bases in Stornoway, Shetland and Lee-on-Solent as well as Portland.

As ex-military aircrew I can assure you that the Civilian folks I work with now are top notch and you wouldnt know the difference between a civil or military crew as you were dragged from the sea (though there is a clue in the colur of the helicopter at the moment).

Anyway, back to the thread

Regards and safe sailing