Indigo Aviation Tanzania

[chums4]

I was flying commander for a DC-3 operator in Tanzania. I am from the states. I seem to be the 5th or 6th captain they had in 6 months, and one day I flew to Dar Es Salaam and they told me to leave..they had no real reasons why other than they did not want to pay. And it seems they hire a guy for a month and they do not pay him, then they get another guy to fly for a month....

Then one day they called me back and begged me to come fly, so I did, and money up front, then again I did, and the second time, they had wanted to fire the co-pilot and not pay him, and they try to involve me, well the company was missing their garmin 296 and the aircraft log, so longer story shorter, these guy paid the police to arrest the co-pilot and his wife. Then I hear that they have tried this stunt with 2-3 other pilots that I was not aware of.

Beware of these guys, it is no joke.

[NorthSouth]

Yes, but you get to fly a DC3 - that must surely be worth sending your best friends to an African prison for....;)
NS

[TSR2]

There is a feature on Indigo Aviation in the February edition of Airliner World.

[flynowfl250]

Well, T.I.T. ...

[CALLE13]

This is what happen when an airline is run by an arrogant professional hunter and by a "business man" from Tanzania that doesn't know to add 2 + 2. I was the first officer that started in that airline. After the first month being paid for hanging out in a hotel room in South Africa I flew the DC-3 to Tanzania. Then, when I decided to leave bcz they wanted me to make pay for the aircracft (1500usd x hour) for the checkride, they asked me to pay back all the money that I earned the last 3 months (about 8.000usd).

STAY AWAY FROM THIS PEOPLE!!!!

When I left they owed me about 3.000 usd, so I thought a lot of things like stealing the GPS and the aircraft log or draining the fuel tanks, but as my fiend told me, my clean name is more valuable than a GPS or aircraft log so I just left! But it seems that somebody didn't think the same!

[Round Engine]

"Debt is a prolific mother of folly and of crime."

Benjamin Disraeli
1st Earl of Beaconsfield, KG, PC, FRS, (21 December 1804 – 19 April 1881)
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

[denis1960]

Rather dramatic turn around from another thread !!

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/366965-indigo-airways.html

Where:
"AFRICA IS FOR MEN OF MEANS NOT WHIMPS."

Or are you stearing "well clear of the DC-3 owner as he has impecable credentials aviating and of the Pussklopper kind too. "

Ha!

Or too much sipping Avgas through straws, may be?

[Siguarda al fine]

The first partner (with the cred ) and Pilot was crooked and thrown out of TZN by JMV hence the about turn.

[Spadhampton]

This guy fly's T's to Dar? Why would I want to book with a guy that screws fellow peealots? If he screws his employees he screws the maintenance I can almost say for certain.

[Observer2]

The story goes around that town that you did not know the difference between flap lever and u/carriage lever - no wonder they asked you to pay for training

[Observer2]

Maybe you want to make these allegations in person? The man is being slandered behind his back - shame on you

[Observer2]

The forward motion of the open palm at a substantial rate of knots, directed at your ear!

[Observer2]

Rumour has it that chums4 was claiming a captains salary without an ATP and only 120 hrs on the 3...wonder where these other guys are from that work for free?

[Spadhampton]

....but I wonder if he wants to sell that Dak before he prangs it?

[scaramuzzo]

"John Martin"....... The name and defined character rings a bell...

Isn't he The pipe smoking Professional Hunter?

[Sniper DAR]

I heard there might be a indian guy involved ? Rumor has it that he uses money from a guy in the states and pays people off, and steals fuel from BP? just a rumor.

[chums4]

Any word on how the company is doing? I was just in Zanzibar and the plane was sitting in the corner. maybe they shut down? is there any routes yet? Cheers.

[Observer2]

There are 2 planes standing at the hangar - apparantly awaiting licensing for maintenance

[disronny]

To all possible passengers, crew and employee's of other companies in Tanzania. From what I have learned is that the pilots are not properly licensed to fly in Tanzania and that the airplanes are not properly maintained. To all possible pilots wanting to fly for Indigo Aviation take note that the employer also has a bad track of dismissing his employee's and does not pay them.

[chums4]

Whats the latest with Indigo? the same? better? closed? open? I have not seen the airplanes for sale, so I guess they are still in Zanzibar? do they have pilots/ engineers? Cheers.

[disronny]

I heard they are still not flying! I can not honestly see how they would ever start up again after the increase cost of av-gas and that they could not afford to pay full price for it anyways. Not to mention the fact that the local's refuse to fly with them anymore due to being unsafe and unreliable. Their pilot licenses are not even endorsed with a local Tanzanian IFR rating which by law is required on the DC3. Plus the word has spread that most DC3 pilots and AME'S probably refuse work for Indigo because the owner cheats them out of their pay.

[disronny]

Any news on Indigo? Was told that they tried to buy petrol from BP and was refused due to an outstanding balance owed from the past. Which is not surprising because I heard they even stopped flying to Pemba Island because they have a large outstanding balance on landing fee's as well. Wonder where they are finding the cash to pay for maintenance.

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Maintenance? Is there anyone still alive this side of the Atlantic that knows how to fix those things? :E

[disronny]

Allot of good guys in South Africa are qualified and know very well on how to work on a DC3, only problem is not one wants to work for Indigo Aviation. The owner either fired most guys when it was time to pay them because he was not making a profit or either the crews have had to quit because they were ripped off on their paychecks.

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Still wondering in this day and age if there still is a suitable role for a piston DC-3.

From what I hear it takes 45 minutes to refuel the aircraft at the pumps here, delaying all other operators for the sake of one aircraft. Possible solution is planned refueling when the pumps are not so busy.

Also in the time it takes to load passengers, do one leg, offload, load up again and fly back, a grand caravan will have done almost double the legs.

The high price of Avgas in this part of the world, availability of spares, need to certify engineers and TBO time of the engines. I recall Caribou's flying for the Australian Airforce had TBO's of around 1200 hours on a good day. I'm asuming the DC-3 will be the same. This works out to roughly 100 DAR-Zanzi return trips.

Also 5H-DAK apparently has only instruments on one side, meaning it will not be approved for IFR operations here. I don't know how the setup is in 5H-LVR.

The only real work I see for a Dak out here is as a freight dog. Carrying descent loads to remote strips. Especially usefull for hunters ferrying in their high rollers since often a lot of logistics have to be moved. Not sure if any of those high rollers would set foot on a Dak though.

Add to that that most fields here are built around the idea of the largest plane being either a Van or a B200 the DC-3 would be severly limited in places to go other than the larger fields.

Also the availability of Avgas around the country and for example in Dodoma of a small cart with a hand pump, reduces the range of the aircraft and payload.

All in all, people may love to see the old bird and fly her, but when push comes to shove does a DC-3 really have a chance anymore except at airshows on joy rides?

[AviatorJack]

Cowboy!

Long time no speak, sorryI left ZNZ in a hurry and didn't get the chance to say bye. Off to the US on Friday for my ATPL and dunno what to do after I return.

I heard Coastal were looking for a van pilot, apparently Aziz was trying to get hold of me at one point. If you hear of anyone who needs help for the season, drop us a line? I aint trekking back just to sit and drink 10 coffees a day at T1.

Hows work holding out at your end?

J

[Cardinal Puff]

SBC

Pretty good chance a DC3 will outdo a B200 in the short field stakes. Operated them into 900m strips with no problems.

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Cardinal Puff,

Was thinking a little more along the lines of wing span. Some fields here have clearance of only a few feet either side of the wing tips of the Van. You'd have to cut down a lot of trees before you get a Dak in there.

[Cardinal Puff]

Gotcha. High aspect ratio and low wing loading make her a good rough field performer but she does require a bit of wiggle room.:ok:

[disronny]

Any news on Indigo Aviation? Ramadan is just around the corner so again it may look like a another very low passenger load for the 28 seat DC3. They could be still hurting from last years numbers.:yuk:

[disronny]

Does anyone know if or when these guys are going to start operating. Looks like they are just sitting in the grass while everyone is taxing by looking at these airplanes rusting away. To make matters worse for Indigo a new airlines has started up in Zanzibar which will add competition and misery.

[kunguru]

The DC3 looks fine parked at zanzi airport. Just for your EYES to see these aircraft:ooh::ooh::ooh:

[disronny]

Anyone work for Indigo Aviation anymore? Have you all been getting paid sitting around all this time while no business has been generating? Or have all of you fled?

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Paid? Has anyone ever been paid by them, be it pilots or even Air BP? :E

[disronny]

My thought's exactly! How can you possibly make a profit when the grass you are parked on is growing taller than the airplane itself? Not to mention that it probably burns 80USG/hr and about 4usg/hr of oil. What about parking charges, maintenance charges, parts, crew, fee's, navigational charges, landing fee's and what about money for new engines after they expire? The Caravan has been tried, tested and proven to make a profit. What was this guy thinking? That if you bring in a DC3 everybody would just line up to fly in it. Maybe he should just charge a small fee for people to walk in it and have a look around. This is not WWII.

[Round Engine]

Now boys, thats some silly talk there - which some,like me, will consider inflammatory! Indigo's problems actually have little to do with their choice of aircraft.

"What about parking charges, maintenance charges, parts, crew, fee's, navigational charges, landing fee's and what about money for new engines after they expire? " Disronny, I do believe that the DC-3 is not the only type of aircraft in the world to incur these expenses? Even a Caravan needs all of those?

Truth is if you don't pay your staff - especially when they have to be pretty clued-up fellas to operate a DC-3 - you WILL see your arse. Because all they'll do, is pack their bags and leave. Eventually, when word gets around enough, as has happened here, nobody will work for you.

That will happen no matter what type of aircraft you operate.

The most important thing in any airline is the quality of its managment, you don't need fancy facilities, new aircraft or anything like that. With strong managment you'll always get the job done - and thats all the client asks for. If you don't believe me, ask "Buffalo Joe" Mcbryan.

And yes....I am talking from experience....

[disronny]

Thank you Round Engine, I do agree with what you have said, excellent points.:ok: Every airplane has it's cost's however how can a DC3 which is I believe is the wrong airplane for the Tanzanian market. The intense competition alone with the other companies of which they all mostly operate Caravans that have a much lower operating cost and better performance? I guess my whole point was how can Indigo Aviation make a profit with it very poor reputation, wrong airplane, poor service and probably poor safety and maintenance of which I have heard from it's pilots because of Indigo's extremely low or nil profit's margins plus not paying it's expenses and debts and it's disregard for paying it's pilots wages, really how can it make it out here? Any suggestion's?

[Round Engine]

Disronny, thanks for the compliment; Firstly, we cannot compare the Caravan and the DC-3, they are not the same type of aircraft at all. Let me answer your questions like this;

" Caravans that have a much lower operating cost and better performance?"

The operating costs are relative. The turbines are affected by cycles (which on short cycles can become prohibitive). The 1830 Pratt's 1600 hr TBO remains just that regardless of the amount of cycles. On this type of operation it is seldomly necessary to climb above 3000 ft, so the DC-3 enjoys the benefit of low fuel and oil consumption, as the need for long climbs are not there. The big place the DC-3 scores is its low purchase price - no repayments to dent the budget. Its maintenance costs per hr are signifigantly higher than a Caravan, but then so is it range, payload (7500 lbs/28 pax) volume (33m2) etc... There is no question of the DC-3's performance, it is/was operating essentially a sea level operation, so no need to be flying over mountains at 15 000ft, plus it has something the Caravan can never have - engine "out" performance, very good single engine performance at that.

Do the maths - the DC-3 is still the best at what it does, dollar for dollar.



"I guess my whole point was how can Indigo Aviation make a profit with it very poor reputation,"

I agree with you wholeheartedly, in aviation your reputation is everything! With a bad reputation, pax won't fly with you, much less will you find crew to fly or fix them.

"wrong airplane,"
Disagree, it is the right aircraft for the job. When operated and maintained CORRECTLY, it is cheap to operate, extremely reliable and VERY profitable. That's where the aircraft get its reputation from, and why its still in commercial service in many parts of the world despite being a 75 year old design. It is a very capable single engine performer (despite commonly spread witchcraft and superstition), and its performance much less blunted by WAT limitations than many other aircraft. This is a big consideration in flying over water - remember the implications of being in a single engined aircraft over water.

"poor service"

Agree 1000% Return business is a big thing on that route, as the money is in the locals not the tourists.

"and probably poor safety and maintenance of which I have heard from it's pilots"

Although they never had an incident to my knowledge, yes. That said, it shows you what a great, safe aircraft the DC-3 is, it keeps going despite the worst maintenance and poor flying practices.


The trick is this, and let me emphasise again that there is no comparison between a Caravan and a DC-3 - any monkey can operate a Caravan (and thats good - it is a good aircraft and extremely effective). A successful DC-3 operation requires very skilled, experienced and correct maintenance and pilots - which are in short supply the world over. In the case of Indigo, once they weren't paid, and the owner felt no obligation to maintain the aircraft correctly - they left. Without the type skilled persons in place those DC-3's are just ornaments. Running a DC-3 operation, is hard work, make no mistake - success does not come easily.

[Siguarda al fine]

Advantage Miss Thompson!

[disronny]

Indigo Aviation! What is your latest status? Are you still in business? Have you found any pilots who are risking or willing to work for you? Any scheduled routes planned? What about the cost of fuel and oil? I do not think BP will take your credit anymore. Have you won the hearts and minds of the locals who refuse to fly with you do to your poor service or any service at all? Have all your dept's been paid? Not hearing good things at all about you. What a shame.:confused:

[disronny]

I guess no answer thus far from anybody probably means Indigo is out of business? It's coming up to 10 months since operations has stopped. Big reasons from what is being said around old staff and other pilots around Zanzibar is that they did not care about there passengers by refunding there money when many of the flights were canceled due to big maintenance problems and that Indigo Aviation did not care about paying there staff in full or at all because they lacked the funds. One pilot even told me that most of there crew which were South African refuse now to even fly for them because of safety constantly being compromised and wages not being paid in full or at time's delayed or even not at all.

[chums4]

Sorry I have not checked my PM's to answer some questions. I would not recommend for anybody to go to work for this company.

It is not a matter of how wise one might be, These people WILL screw any pilot or mechanic that goes there. He will not pay, you WILL fly in level 3 & 4 thunderstorms, between 10-15,000 foot mountains while you are getting drenched from rain coming from behind the attitude indicator among other places.

I was very very lucky, in that I had a very smart Co-Pilot that could fly us between 2 13,000 foot mountains in a heavy thunderstorm and do our own makeshift stepdowns by looking at a navigation map and land in a remote strip.

This is no joke, you are in their world, and in their world they will pay the police to put you in jail if you want to leave the company, so you must not say a word, just get on a airplane and GO, when the time comes.

If your hungry to fly a DC-3 there are other places to do it, but do not go to Indigo. they do not hire black pilots, and if you are white no matter if your from the USA, SA, EA, or any other country, they will :mad: you.

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Thought they just flew between Dar and Zanzi :E

Where on earth where you going when you were anywhere near 13000 foot mountains?

[chums4]

I believe when I arrived they had pretty much lost that route, since they did not have reliability that the others offered. We flew alot to Mbeya, Iringa, there were also charters. If I remember correctly when we would fly from (ZNZ-DAR-Iringa-Mbeya-Iringa-DAR-ZNZ) it was 9 hours and change of flight time in one day, and it ended up being 11-14 hours of duty time.

[richardprice1962]

Indigo is now under new ownership,is well financed and debt free.The new owners would appreciate if past pilots,whose own records are appalling ensure that they differentiate between new and old Indigo when they post.

[disronny]

Richardprice1962

You say that the new owners would appreciate that the past pilots differentiate between the new and old Indigo because there records are appalling! This just say's to me that you are associated with Indigo's old owners and are even ready to begin your own lies and deceitfulness. What would you know about their past pilot's? The fact is I know of Indigo's past pilots and they were honest, hard working and really cared about Indigo's success. Indigo Aviation screwed them out of there pay and blamed them for there own poor management. The pilots had every right to post their opinion and facts about this terrible and unsafe company. So I really doubt that it has changed or even has any good intentions to begin a new start.

Your comment is also insulting, if the new owners are "well financed and dept free" which is also probably another lie. Why does Indigo not go back and also pay the remaining salaries of their local underpaid staff. Also why did the new owners not get in touch with all the other pilots they once had and pay salary that is owned with an apology, maybe then you will have nice comments.

Good luck finding anybody to work or even fly with Indigo Aviation the No Go Aviation Company of Tanzania.

[chums4]

"well financed and debt free"
I really doubt this because I have not seen a envelope with cash in it, so your still in debt to me. And you maybe well financed by a person from the USA but they will soon find out that your a crook and will take their money too.

As far as I know Indigo is under the same ownership, I don't know any of the old crew that had appalling records, other than the owner and his right hand man, I guess if your speaking of those two, then I agree.

I know this may be a last ditch effort to clear the dirty indigo name, but don't come on here and lie and try to con people into doing things that are not true, your not debt free, you will always steal investors money, customers money, and crews money.

[richardprice1962]

Have you guys had a look at the balance sheet?I guess you must have as you seem pretty well informed.Where did you see the balance sheet?

[Siguarda al fine]

The term "debt free" makes me laugh.You will be "debt free" when you have paid in full;
Bruce,Adam. Ferdi, Jayson and Mike (and probably others unknown to me) what they were promised when you conned them into following you to DAR.
We know its you JMV you were looking for a mechanic only a few weeks ago to be another victim. Luckily your reputation preceeds you and I doubt if there are there is anyone fool enough to work for free for you.

[Siguarda al fine]

BTW the aircraft formerly ZS-LVR Is way over time on a check 4 and the only mechanic with a current DC-3 license in RSA has refused to work on the aircraft because of JMV's unique business ethics or lack of them.

[disronny]

Richardprice1962 what does the balance sheet have to do with all the FACT'S that is being posted on this site? Indigo's extremely poor reputation towards it's ex-pilots and poor service towards it's ex-passengers has been proven over and over again. You are talking about a "balance sheet" what "balance sheet"? You show us the FACT'S on this so called bogus "balance sheet". Oh yeah and don't forget about all those passengers that were refused a refund when Indigo canceled many of it's flights due to poor maintenance practices because of inadequate support of it's engineers. These customers as well should be refunded, after all Indigo is now "debt free" and well financed as you so proudly stated.

[disronny]

I also heard that one of the engines is way past it's expiry date.

[disronny]

If this so called new owner had any sense at all they would have at least tried to contact all of Indigo's ex-pilots and maintenance staff and asked for some of their opinion on what actually went wrong with Indigo and why the bad reputation; instead this so called "new management" starts off by criticizing Indigo's ex-pilots on their "appalling" post's. I highly doubt this company is committed to change and to making amends with it's horrible business practices.

[disronny]

I think I just saw one of the DC3 with a flat tire sitting in the grass. When was the last time these airplanes were even started? Looks like they are moving nicely ahead a predicted.

[Siguarda al fine]

I hear JMV has recruited yet another unlicensed spanner turner for his DAR ops. Any one know more?

[justaname]

Poor guy walked into my hangar (in Dar) the other day, was looking for a fitting for an oil pipe. Didn't greet me! I had to find out from my staff who he was and what he was doing here.

Now for all those pilots out there (and engineers that don't know what they are doing) when you walk into someones hangar, it's very insulting if you don't let the Chief Engineer know that you are there. If he's not around talk with his 2IC.

Anyway, i was quite encouraged to see something might be happening. It's horrible to see those aircraft parked off in ZNZ.

[launchpad74]

I think "disronny" should take back his statement. All expat pilots in Tanzania are properly trained, and fly properly maintained aircraft. Minor snags are noted and planes are flown according to the MEL's. Some of the Tanzanian pilots may have some bad habits and expose their cowboy flying skill daily. Specifics !! get it right! Indigo has a bad rep, and I knew a few of the crew there. They did not pay the crew, they are behind on TCAA fees etc etc.

[Jetlink_Len]

T.I.A! organised crime seems to be confusing many.

[Siguarda al fine]

Seems the new owner has the machinery for sale and persons in RSA have been contacted to standby to go recover them. I guess the attach angles have become corroded whilst standing in the long grass, the birds are are as good as dead. Shame on JVM.

[Judge Mental]

Attach angles "have got corroded" first, where did you learn English and second what are attach angles on a DC-3? If anything "got corroded" it's your brain.

[Siguarda al fine]

JM you ignorance is astoundingly familiar, the attach angles are the devices that hold the wings on my dear skelum. Infact the DC-3 is one of the few aircraft that uses this system, another is the Navion, if I remember correctly. They are far more important than English grammar when discussing DC-3's. Please continue to correct my English grammar, and I will continue to push back the barriers of your ignorance regarding the DC-3, it's correct operation, construction and maintenance. Oh!! and while I am at it maybe I can give you some pointers on how to treat fellow human beings.

[Judge Mental]

First, this is not "JM"...... On a DC-3 the outter wing panels are attached to the Center Wing Section Attachment Flanges. I have read your posts and you seem to be a self proclaimed expert on just about everything and I seriously doubt you do anything more than sit in front of a computer and wouldn't know how to run a hot dog stand.

[Siguarda al fine]

Well you got that right, I would not know how to run a hot dog stand. As for DC-3 Knowledge, experience, and skill I will put you in my pocket any day, a proclaimation I guess. You would like to challenge me?

[Siguarda al fine]

262
15/03/1963
Structure – Centre and outer wings – Inspection and replacement of upper and lower attach angles and doublers
Initially embodied at 10252.05 on 17/11/1988, re-inspected and X-rayed at Check V (12 000 hr inspection)
10252.05
18252.05
262 (Reissue no 1)
14/06/1963
Structure – Centre and outer wings – Inspection and replacement of upper and lower attach angles and doublers
Initially embodied at 10252.05 on 17/11/1988, re-inspected and X-rayed at Check V (12 000 hr inspection)
10252.05
18252.05
262 (Rev 3)
09/02/1970
Structure – Centre and outer wings – Inspection and replacement of upper and lower attach angles and doublers
Initially embodied at 10252.05 on 17/11/1988, re-inspected and X-rayed at Check V (12 000 hr inspection)
10252.05
18252.05

[Siguarda al fine]

I just found out who is new mechanic at Indigo :D I hope he knows his flanges from his angles.

[LJP]

Holy crap!!!! dont tell me its Giuseppi the Jordanian:ooh::ooh::ooh::ooh::ooh:

[Siguarda al fine]

Yessir one and the same. I heard he had enough of KIN, or they had enough of him and he is seeking new horizons as a new Wit Gevar.
He will climb into that machine with gusto and then wont get paid. Surely he checked up before he went there?

[Sniper DAR]

Well, it is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when indigo will bite the dust. With the people that they have it seems amazing that anything works. According to the "mental judge" or "judge mental" the DC-3 does not have attach angles, (which it does). Maybe you need to take some lessons before challenging some of the greatest round engine engineers in the world.

[Siguarda al fine]

The Jordanian mechanic would do well to check what the former employees have to say about the goings on at Indigo, he knows most of them personally.

[Judge Mental]

As a matter of fact I do know some of the best round engine mechanics, but unlike you clowns they actually have meaningful jobs and are too busy working to have time to write posts trying to convince others that they are "great".... Get a life! If you have all the answers and know some other company is doomed for failure go start your own airline and show us all how it is done! then we all can learn from you. In the mean time no one wants to hear your constant moaning and wailing and how you were so mistreated. If you feel someone is about to make a poor career choice you can hire them for your airline and life will be so good for everyone.

[Siguarda al fine]

Okay so you know some good mechanics I challenge you to name one of them. You can PM me okay.

[Judge Mental]

I'll decline any more posts thank you......a wise man once told me " Don't wrestle with pigs, you both get dirty but the pigs love it.

[Siguarda al fine]

My grandfather told me, "dont claim to be something you are not, you will be caught out."

[LJP]

I have only been A and C rated on the DC-3/C47 since 1988, so therefor do not consider myself an expert, but can confirm that the aircraft does have attachment angles, and you sir, should take your head out of your ass!!!!!

[napoleon]

LJP well said bro!

[chums4]

So you say you are not 'JM' which is the initials to your name 'Judge Mental', I mean, you did refer to 'Siguarda al fine' as 'SAF' so shirley you know about abbreviations. So tell us, who are you? your post leads me to believe your real initials are also 'JM'.

At any rate it is irrelevant, because you should not stick up for a company like this unless you have something to lose that is associated with the company closing, so either way you are a member of the opposing team. Since you are declining to post anymore, it will create less clutter on this thread, and let more of the truth to present itself.

[disronny]

I saw a picture of 5H-DAK, looks really bad, the blue paint has faded away just like the company has. Signs also show that rust has taken it over. Indigo is finished! the company has lost all respect by the ex-pilots and staff and of the customer. My final word is that JM is a despicable man a crook and a bully of which are all indisputable. Stay away people do not be fools.

[digitalsoul]

....Judge...I think u are toasted..... seems ur mental judgment finally gave way to some wisdom too.....else u wud still be cluttering this thread...well done.....wish companies like yours also stop cluttering our skies....Toasted!!!