Air Passenger Duty: Airline mark up?

[Senior Pilot]

Before I get too wound up with Virgin Atlantic, has anyone had experience of airlines marking up/overcharging taxes?

LHR to Washington, the APD from the HM Revenue & Customs site should be £45 or £90, depending on class of travel. VA are charging £60 and £120 :hmm:

I haven't even started researching the USA Transportation Tax, USA Animal & Plant Helath Inspection Service Fee, UK Passenger Service Charge, etc etc. But I will, if this turns out to be a rort :=

[ExXB]

Just did a fare quote for VS LHR-JFK return and got:

Fare (A1): VS LONhttp://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/images/plain-arrow.gifNYC OLXMEG fare (rules (http://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/dispatch/bonsaiproxy/ftr;jsessionid=7445B4CD602F03FC98994A358C164761?V=M285404867 88001772078&AAC=2010-02-09-05&L=B28100678178962930145&J=63&AAD=0)) , psgr type ADT £43.00 Fare (A2): VS NYChttp://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/images/plain-arrow.gifLON OLXMEG fare (rules (http://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/dispatch/bonsaiproxy/ftr;jsessionid=7445B4CD602F03FC98994A358C164761?V=M285404867 88001772078&AAC=2010-02-09-05&L=B28100678178962930145&J=63&AAD=1)) , psgr type ADT £43.00 Tax: USDA APHIS Fee $5.00 Tax: US Immigration Fee $7.00 Tax: US Customs Fee $5.50 Tax: United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty £45.00 Tax: United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge £21.20 Tax: US International Arrival Tax $16.10 Tax: VS YQ surcharge £111.00 Tax: US International Departure Tax $16.10 Tax: US September 11th Security Fee $2.50 Tax: US Passenger Facility Charge $4.50 Total for 1 adult passenger: £298.50
The YQ (fuel) surcharge (and the fare) goes to VS, the rest to governments.

[Senior Pilot]

Just did a fare quote for VS LHR-JFK return

Thanks, but mine is a booking LHR to Washington. Fees quoted by VA are different to HM R & C :confused:

[ExXB]

Fare (A1): VS LONhttp://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/images/plain-arrow.gifWAS OLXMEG fare (rules (http://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/dispatch/bonsaiproxy/ftr;jsessionid=AE31CD0DF02948F6508E6D8F0A77F09B?V=M290956667 12793305923&AAC=2010-02-09-05&L=B26753380209909633865&J=27&AAD=0)) , psgr type ADT £48.00 Fare (A2): VS WAShttp://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/images/plain-arrow.gifLON OLXMEG fare (rules (http://matrix.itasoftware.com/cvg/dispatch/bonsaiproxy/ftr;jsessionid=AE31CD0DF02948F6508E6D8F0A77F09B?V=M290956667 12793305923&AAC=2010-02-09-05&L=B26753380209909633865&J=27&AAD=1)) , psgr type ADT £48.00 Tax: USDA APHIS Fee $5.00 Tax: US Immigration Fee $7.00 Tax: US Customs Fee $5.50 Tax: United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty £45.00 Tax: United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge £21.20 Tax: US International Arrival Tax $16.10 Tax: VS YQ surcharge £111.00 Tax: US International Departure Tax $16.10 Tax: US September 11th Security Fee $2.50 Tax: US Passenger Facility Charge $4.50 Total for 1 adult passenger: £308.50

In this example the fare and the YQ go to VS (i.e. £48 + £48 + £111 = £207) the rest go to UK (£66.20) & US ($56.70) governments / airports.

[Senior Pilot]

ExXB,

This is getting off my query. I have been charged the amount quoted, regardless of what you're finding somewhere. Here's a direct cut & paste from the VA Website, the amounts shown are what I have been charged on my booking one way LHR - Dulles:

Tax Description Tax Code Tax Amount Operating Airline Fuel & Insurance Surcharge YQ GBP 55.50 USA Animal & Plant Health Inspection Service Fee XA GBP 3.10 USA Immigration Service Fee XY GBP 4.40 USA Customs User Fee YC GBP 3.40 UK Air Passenger Duty GB GBP 60.00 UK Passenger Service Charge UB GBP 22.97 USA Transportation Tax US GBP 10.00 Total GBP 159.37and

All Passengers Tax Description Tax Code Tax Amount Operating Airline Fuel & Insurance Surcharge YQ GBP 80.50 USA Animal & Plant Health Inspection Service Fee XA GBP 3.10 USA Immigration Service Fee XY GBP 4.40 USA Customs User Fee YC GBP 3.40 UK Air Passenger Duty GB GBP 120.00 UK Passenger Service Charge UB GBP 22.97 USA Transportation Tax US GBP 10.00 Total GBP 244.37Back to the query: has anyone experience of airlines overcharging/marking up Government taxes? If so, is there a justifiable reason?

[PAXboy]

One well known agent does it: Air Miles, the British company. I caught them out by checking what BA would have charged for the self same flight and Air Miles were pumping it up.

One well known LCC has often massaged the figures and the amounts of tax to pay have been noted to vary by the day. There are numerous threads about this.

As for VS and other LH carriers - not seen it but I suppose many reckon that folks don't know what it's supposed to be anyway. You might want to check other carriers on the same routing and cabin.

The person who would probably know is Final 3 Greens. You might try a PM.

[Hartington]

Just to be absolutely clear where was the ticket purchased from and if it was the Virgin website which country version?

[ExXB]

You are aware that APD to the US goes up to GBP 60 effective 1 Nov 2010? That is for travel on/after that date, not tickets purchased on/after that date.

Edited to say - A booking on the VS web-site UK pages for outbound/return travel in October gives an APD of 45 while a similar booking for outbound/return travel in November shows the increased amount of 60.

[Senior Pilot]

My mistake for not saying that the travel date is after the increase: I hadn't found any reference to it (the increase!),so thank you for solving my question :ok: And it was from the UK website ;)

£120 x 2 is just a bit irritating :hmm:

[parabellum]

On the bright side SP just look at the exchange rate these days, pound to A$!:)

[ExXB]

What's all this stuff for:

USDA APHIS Fee $5.00 - OK they have to sniff our bags (but I don't check a bag!)

US Immigration Fee $7.00 - OK they have to stamp our passports (after checking we have the right colour forms, etc.) but why do I have to pay? Is there a charge when people drive south from Canada? (NO)

US Customs Fee $5.50 - Usually the guy just takes the customs form on the way out. Five bucks fifty for that? (Do Canadian drivers pay? (NO))

United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty £45/60/120 - Oh, that's for the environment. Right Gordon?

United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge £21.20 - this, I think goes to the airport. Now why does BAA want 21 pounds 20? This is more than a cinema ticket, and much less entertaining. And why do they get over $30 when the US airport gets only $4.50??

US International Arrival Tax $16.10 - Didn't I just pay $5 +$7 +$5.50 to arrive?

US International Departure Tax $16.10 - OK, I need to pay this because ... ??? I know they talked about the US haven't some sort of departure control (other than turning in that funny green stub) but that hasn't happened yet.

US September 11th Security Fee $2.50 - Keeps the TSA happy, I guess.

US Passenger Facility Charge $4.50 - Think this goes to the US Airport. Must pay for shiny underground trains (4 miles at IAD that cost more than the Jubilee line in London)

[Rusland 17]

And yet the total fare is much the same as it was 25 years ago, before all these taxes, charges and surcharges were even dreamt of.

No wonder the airline industry is in such a state (and its customers so disillusioned with the service).

[aerobelly]

"And yet the total fare is much the same as it was 25 years ago, before all these taxes, charges and surcharges were even dreamt of."

Really? 30 years ago I was using Freddie Laker's Skytrain for which the fares were (IIRC) $60 JFK-LGW and £50 LGW-JFK. And the timings were the best I've ever used trans-Atlantic from the jet-lag PoV.

Even better, I could take my own choice of sleep enhancer, have it opened FoC, and not be awakened for snacks, dinner (dog's) or breakfast at two hours out.

In-flight entertainment had to be pretty much self provided though, and on one flight I took Newton's Principia Mathematica. Managed one and a half pages in six hours. :confused:


'b

[PAXboy]

ExXBCan anyone explain, please What's all this stuff for:Delighted old chap, I found this on Wookeypedia ...

USDA APHIS Fee $5.00
They subsidise Aphids to migrate to new countries and get out of the USA.

US Immigration Fee $7.00
They are renting you the air of USA and, if you stay for more than a week - it's below a $ a Day so that's a bargain, stop complaining.

US Customs Fee $5.50
Do you know how much it costs to train Customs staff to collect those forms???

United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty £45/60/120 - Oh, that's for the environment. Right Gordon?
Yes indeed. The environment of the Treasury Bank Account.

United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge £21.20
This does indeed go to the airport and you can see for yourself how wisely they have spent the money.

And why do they get over $30 when the US airport gets only $4.50??
The Brits have more imaginative ways of wasting money and we really like to spread it around to other countries that own our key assets. So this money is not really going to the airport - it's going to their share holders - so that they can pay for biz jets and not use Heathrow.

US International Arrival Tax $16.10 - Didn't I just pay $5 +$7 +$5.50 to arrive?
Ever heard of protection? Think what might happen if you DON'T pay it? You do want to actually ARRIVE don't you? Know what I mean?

US International Departure Tax $16.10
This is compensate the Americans for the loss of your good company and the extra money you would have spent on hamburgers, if you had not been so inconsiderate as to leave the country.

US September 11th Security Fee $2.50
The day must be secured and every year it comes around again and they have to go and secure it one mo' time. Sending out a posse is not cheap.

US Passenger Facility Charge $4.50
You are correct that this goes to the airport - but only if the FAA approve.

In accordance with legislation adopted by the U.S. Congress, individual airports in the United States may impose a Passenger Facility Charge (PFC) on enplaning passengers. Such PFCs are to be used by the airports to fund FAA-approved airport improvement projects. Once the FAA has approved a PFC, the legislation requires airlines and travel agents to collect PFCs from their passengers.
Airports may impose a PFC of as much as $4.50 on an enplaning passengerI can see why all those charges makes you want to enplain about all those charges but I suggest that you press the bell and ask the FA/CC to bring you a good strong drink.

(Those questioning how many times I have pressed the call bell and taken drink this evening are most unkind and should enplane outta here)

[Final 3 Greens]

That's brilliant, Paxboy :ok:

[pal90]

One well known LCC has often massaged the figures and the amounts of tax to pay have been noted to vary by the day. There are numerous threads about this.

Once in a very bored moment I compared the tax charged by FR and EZ for the few routes where they then competed directly....curiously enough FR were always higher.

I would check again but I get out more these days.

[Remers]

And where is the sky train now????

[ExXB]

I think ...

Now that I know will I be shot?

[PAXboy]

RemersAnd where is the sky train now????Scuppered by the big boys of (to begin with) aviation authorities and (later) good old competition that was open, honest, fair and square. Ensuring that the best company won. :ouch:

[ptr120]

I hate to dissagree old chap, but if you hold a non US or Canadian passport and drive from Canada to the USA you WILL have to pay!