How do we feel about the term SLF?

[Hartington]

As you might expect there is a discssuion on the Cabin Crew forum about BA Industrial Relations. Two posts caught my eye and I'd be interested to hear peoples reactions.
The first from Entaxei (post no 263 on the thread) who indicates he is a passenger reads:
Oh well done Tiramisu - a shot clear down the middle straight through the deliberate twisting of facts by BASSA - clean bowled.
In the mean time and thinking about various aspects of these discussions, it occurs to me that calling the source of your income "Self Loading Freight", is derogatary and, potentially downgrading the importance of your passengers in the minds of BA workers and the manner in which some may deal with problems or complaints.
The phrase is one that is very clever, in keeping with todays culture and brings a wry smile to the face, but is almost akin to saying 'throw your wallet in the basket as you board, we'll give you the residue when you get off'. All of which helps the union view that passengers have nothing to do with the reality of squeezing the last drop out of the orange.
I'm interested to hear your view from the action end.
Cheers Entaxei (Pax).
Post 268 is from flapsforty (a moderator) reads:
Entaxei, this forum is for professional cabin crew. People who actually work in the industry. As cabin crew.
The term Self Loading Freight has been part of PPRuNe vernacular for ever. It´s a term of endearment.
If that offends you, then I suggest that you redirect your browser to somewhere dedicated to ex-engineers or professional airline passengers.
Like our very own PPRuNe Passengers & SLF forum, set up just for you.
Do not presume to come here and lecture us on what we call you on our own forum.
I've always accepted that Cabin Crew call us Self Loading Freight on the basis that flapsforty indicates " It´s a term of endearment.". But that final comment does make me wonder.
Without actually saying it I get the impression that terms like "Trolly Dolly" are accepted by crew in the same way that we accept SLF except that crew are always careful to point out that their main raison d'etre is our safety.
Given the complaints we see on here about BA service I do wonder if flapsforty complains just a little to much and Entaxei has a point.

[Final 3 Greens]

Hartington

If you look at the BA cabin crew dispute, where a large majority of lemmings voted to empower their union to strike for 12 days at Xmas and are now voting again, against a grim economic background and few, if any cabin crew jobs going elsewhere, the impression one gets is that many may not have a lot between the ears.

(Not all by any means, some BA cabin cew, such as Jetset Lady who posts here are very bright.)

However, if the majority are not over endowed with grey matter, then this might explain this 'term of endearment', since it is not overbright to use negative metaphors IMHO.

I always refer the clients in our business as 'clients', as that is the respectful term. They also pay the fees that fund my salary, a fact I never forget. They may be pains at time, but they paid for my house, my cars, my kids education etc.

My belief is that the names you call people do unconsciously influence one's feelings and behaviours towards them.

So Entaxei may have a point.

Having said that, I haven't experienced the dire airborne service that some report, in fact it is normally okay to good with BA; The ground 'experience' is my bete noir.

[Donkey497]

So long as there are those of us who are willing from time to time to fly on Ryanair & the other Loco's, whose point to point service is a quick turnround freight service, we are exactly that.

We are Self Loading Freight- deal with it.

What the airlines really need is SLB - Self Loading Baggage.:ok:

[DERG]

A banker once said to me "If we could get rid of the customers we could run the operations without costs..it would be soo easy"

I heard a "skipper" once ask operations for another steward for his flight..."Ya want a snack bash kid?" came the reply..."er kinda yeah"

Now it seems to me that something has been lost here. I can see the day when an outfit like Ryanair sticks a barcode across your forehead at the check in...

[west lakes]

Basically, as long as it is not obscene, I'm not bothered what I get called!

This question is raised from time to time and usually means an interesting discussion (search for threads yourself)

Bear in mind, though, that SLF is a non-gender term, whereas Trolly Dollies is gender related ( though most female cc I know prefer hosties), so what term would you use for male cabin crew?

In reality I can't help but feel that there are more important things in life than arguing over the use of long established terms!!

[Final 3 Greens]

so what term would you use for male cabin crew?

I have heard pilots use the expression 'plate layers.'

Pretty disrespectful if you ask me.

What's wrong with 'cabin crew', for that's exactly what they are.

[west lakes]

As for Flapsforty's comment - she has a point about who posts on the individual forums, particularly when the majority of the post was nothing to do with the thread subject!

Don't forget that the post could have just been deleted!

[Two-Tone-Blue]

On the previous Chapter of the CC Thread, I ended up being banned for a few days for referring to a member of CC as a "Trolly Dolly". I will admit that I used the phrase in the midst of a heated discussion, but always understood that was one of many numerous similar phrases that have been in circulation for decades.

They include ...
Military Fast-Jet Navigator = Talking Ballast
Military ATC = The Flying Prevention Branch
Passengers [Mil AND Civ] = Self Loading Freight
Cabin Crew = [The T word]
........... and many, many more.

Personally I find Self-Loading Freight a bit derogatory, but I've been called that for so long I've become largely immune to it. Industry [and military] vernacular it may be, but I have never experienced it being used as a 'term of endearment'. The same broadly applies to the other terms cited above.

Clearly f40 has a more sensitive view when it comes to the equivalent 'term of endearment' for CC, and indeed seeing any non-CC posting on that thread, which is why I no longer risk trying to post in her fiefdom. No problem, her train-set, and that's a high-presure environment for a lot of CC on both sides of the argument. Perhaps we shouldn't have taken such a direct interest.

Does that 'deprecating' or 'endearing' SLF term affect passenger service? On the surface, I doubt it. On a more profound level, given what CC have to contend with on a daily basis from some of their passengers, it may. Whether it's a disruptive oaf in WT, or an arrogant oaf in F/J, or a full aircraft on a bad day to a lousy destination, I suspect we are a corporate pain in the rear. Yes, we pay their wages, and perhaps some of us expect too much from them. But reliable delivery of the advertised product would be nice.

[PS ... I believe this subject has been done to death on PPRuNe often in the past. Or so I was told.]

[west lakes]

It's probably fair to say that the term SLF is rarely, if ever, used by CC directly to a passenger or in their earshot. I suspect that the opposite Trolly Dolly etc. is often used by some passengers directly to crew.

[Rusland 17]

Bear in mind, though, that SLF is a non-gender term, whereas Trolly Dollies is gender related ( though most female cc I know prefer hosties), so what term would you use for male cabin crew?We call them Trolly Dollies, surely? (But, of course, never to their face). :)

[TightSlot]

Weary Sigh...

This subject comes up periodically, so I'll try and resurrect the usual answer.

Long ago, back in the days... PPRuNe was a pilots only forum discussing pilot type stuff. Some pilots used the term SLF for passengers, especially those with a military background, as used to be the norm: Given that many of them have no interface whatsoever with passengers, beyond an en-route PA announcement, this is at least understandable - whether you approve or not is another matter.

As PPRuNe expanded and the number of forums increased, the SLF name stuck to this forum. For the record, in 33 years in the industry, 30 of which are as crew, I have never heard a single British cabin crew member refer to passengers as SLF - ever. The only exception is here on PPRuNe where it is occasionally used, sometimes by those claiming to be Cabin Crew, and often in an attempt to comply with perceived normal practise.

Many industries have phrases that are considered acceptable for use within a peer group, but not by outsiders - Medicine springs to mind. Another example might be the word that would be considered highly racially offensive if used by a white person, but is in common and routine usage amongst African-Americans when referring to each other - supposedly to indicate irony, although I have my doubts. The point I'm making is that language is powerful, and its' use requires care and compliance with the rules to avoid giving offence. Here on PPRuNe (originally a Pilots' Forum) the peer group viewed the term as being acceptable.

You may of course, if you wish, choose to take offence, or to read into the phrase something that in my experience simply doesn't exist: This forum is for passengers to offer their opinions, so you are most welcome to continue in this vein if you wish. I certainly won't prevent you, but I will go on the record at this point to say that in my view this is neither an issue, nor a symptom of an issue.

P.S.
The BA thread(s) in the CC forum have been by no small measure the most frustrating, irritating, depressing, tedious, thankless and time-consuming work that the CC Forum mods have had to deal with in some considerable time: I'm also a mod in there, along with my esteemed colleague Flaps (who for the record is an immensely skilled and experienced Cabin Crew member). The BA thread has experienced many hijack attempts, not only by extremists on all sides, but also by other parties, including passengers, all of whom have been anxious to display their various prejudices and agendas, or simply to demonstrate their own titanic cleverness and ego: While this may be fascinating for those who are in love with the sound of their own keyboards, it has usually contributed little or nothing to the debate, except to raise the global temperature and thereby promote further irrelevant posts.

I would be grateful if this forum would not be used as a receptacle for those opinions that were deleted by mods various (including myself) on the BA thread in CC.

Thanks

[Final 3 Greens]

Tightslot

Re part 2 of your post, you have my sympathy.

Re part 1, I think you have perhaps missed Hartington's point.

You could re-read his last sentence and then reference the article below

What's in a Name: Our Only Label Should Be Our Name: Avoiding the Stereotypes (http://www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca/generalinfo/labelname.html)

Labelling can and does create negative stereotypes, which influences the way the labeller thinks about those labelled and then deals with them.

In recent times, on here on other travel related fora, a number of people have complained about the surly attitude of some BA cabin crew.

The OP is trying to make a link between this attitude and th elabelling of passengers.

If you ask me, any such behaviour it is more probabl due to demotivation and anti management ire, but nonethless it is interesting to think about how labelling stereotypes or demonises.

After all, 'scab' is a powerful word, isn't it?

[dubh12000]

The term in our office is "Self Loathing Freight". The reduction in business class travel may have something to do with it.:}

[TightSlot]

F3G - Thanks, an interesting link.

The fact remains that this is a word that I have never heard used outside the confines of PPRuNe, and within, rarely. If the usage was widespread, then I agree that an issue might exist.

It is for the reasons covered in your link that I prefer to use the phrase 'customer' when discussing people on the aircraft: It re-enforces the view that there is a financial transaction behind each seat occupied.

It is worth noting that some people dislike being referred to as 'customers' on board the aircraft.

[L337]

Some pilots used the term SLF for passengers, especially those with a military background, as used to be the norm:

I arrived into Airline flying in 1982, and the aged RAF gentleman around me would use this phrase. A phrase I had never heard before. In the intervening years from Dan Air, Britannia, and BA I have only ever heard passengers referred to as SLF by pilots. And then only rarely by military pilots. Indeed a passenger is just that in the military. They are not paying customers. They are exactly what it says. Self Loading Freight.

I have never ever heard a Cabin Crew member in any airline that I have worked for call passengers SLF.

I think it is worth remembering that this is historically a Pilots forum. And an old one at that. Unusually for the internet it carries with it history.

[GANNET FAN]

I am Self Loading Freight.........................so what?

[CornishFlyer]

Having been crew for 7 years (not as long as a lot of you guys I know) I have never heard passengers been called SLF except for on PPRuNe. The problem with a public forum for people within a specific industry is that anyone can view it and see the slang terms should they actually be used anywhere. Most industries have different slang terms for their customers, rightly or wrongly however they do exist and always will, but anyone under the impression that we call all out passengers SLF, take a deep intake of breath and relax. We prefer to just call you passengers. Non-gender specific and simple. Whether or not that is superseded by another word though...... :ok:

[Octopussy2]

I certainly don't find the term offensive, I find it amusing and assume it is used with affection (or even affectionate exasperation, on occasions!) Certainly when used by someone like Flapsforty it would clearly be affectionate, as the fact that she has the utmost respect for/empathy with her passengers shines through any of her posts in which she describes her working day.

"Trolly Dolly" is potentially, in my view, far more offensive, because it demeans someone's chosen occupation (in the same way as "quack", "desk jockey" etc).

[Ancient Observer]

Industry sectors can be classified in many ways. One simple classification is "Producer" focus versus "Customer" focus.

Aviation, from its birth amongst the Civil Servants and Armed Forces in many countries, has always had a Producer focus. It is concerned about itself, rather than its customers. I moved in to Aviation from the Customer-focussed Service sector, and the changes in attitudes were a shock to me.

It was a mini-revolution in the Aviation sector when South West came along. They had a clear Customer focus. Virgin Atlantic tries to emulate them.

Like it or not, any sector that has a culture that allows phrases such as SLF to survive is a Producer focussed sector. Those that adopt fully a Consumer focus are far more likely to survive.

The mods and I do not agree about this. That's fine, as pprune has always tolerated different opinions.

[praa]

No problem with the term at all. Indeed, compared to some of the invective that pprune-posters throw at one another it's a welcome and ironically affectionate nickname.

[PAXboy]

As a pax of 44 years (man and boy :)) I first heard the term in here and thought it hilariously funny. As others have said, each business has pet names for it's customers. The ONLY thing that counts is service and that is adequately covered elsewhere.

Both TS and Flaps know of what they speak and this question gets asked about once a year, because folks don't use SEARCH before posting. As to BA CC? It's their job and they can do what they like with it. There will always be plenty of airlines.

I would vote this thread to be closed and the next time the question is asked - for it to be closed with links to all the other threads. Now, to lighten the load ..

Donkey497What the airlines really need is SLB - Self Loading Baggage.Sir Terry Pratchett already invented this. In the Discworld stories, there is a large cabin trunk with many legs on it and it is entirely self-propelled.

Rincewind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Luggage#The_Luggage)
[an extract] The Luggage is a large chest that follows Rincewind wherever he goes. It is made of sapient pearwood (a magical, intelligent plant which is nearly extinct, impervious to magic, and only grows in a few places outside the Agatean Empire, generally on sites of very old magic). It can produce hundreds of little legs protruding from its underside and can move very fast if the need arises. It has been described as "half suitcase, half homicidal maniac"

Its function is to act as both a luggage carrier and bodyguard for its owner, against whom no threatening motion should be made. The Luggage is fiercely defensive of its owner, and is generally homicidal in nature, killing or eating several people and monsters and destroying various ships, walls, doors, geographic features, and other obstacles throughout the series. Its mouth contains "lots of big square teeth, white as sycamore, and a pulsating tongue, red as mahogany." The inside area of The Luggage does not appear to be constrained by its external dimensions, and contains many conveniences: even when it has just devoured a monster, the next time it opens the owner will find his underwear, neatly pressed and smelling slightly of lavender.

Micro Art Studio - Discworld Miniatures Luggage (1) (http://www.shop.microartstudio.com/discworld-miniatures-luggage-p-214.html)

[CornishFlyer]

Ancient Observer-as iterated many times by various people-the term isn't often used if at all amongst those that have any customer contact. No need for all the "Customer focus"/"producer focus" tripe

[Basil]

I first came across an amusing freight/passenger comparison when, about 47 years ago, as a young marine engineer officer on steam turbine banana boats, I heard the Chief Engineer advise one of our passengers that the really important payload reposed below deck - in bunches - at 54deg F :)

For those few who object to the term, SLF, trust me, most of us are in no doubt that we work(ed) in a service industry and from whence comes our income :ok:

[GwynM]

I've only been flying for 28 years (first flight was Libya Arab to Tripoli) and I am perfectly happy to be called SLF. Unless flying long haul then I also have SLB as I carry it on.

Anyone who gets uptight about this is suffering from chronic sense of humour failure.

[Basil]

Just read this on the BBC website - re the B777 incident:
Indeed some of the passengers interviewed by the BBC, had not realised what had happened until they were ordered to evacuate. To them, it had just seemed like a "hard landing".
Now that's rude! :}

[Scumbag O'Riley]

If they can call us SLF, can we call them Otto? :}

[Two-Tone-Blue]

I first came across an amusing freight/passenger comparison when, about 47 years ago, as a young marine engineer officer on steam turbine banana boats, I heard the Chief Engineer advise one of our passengers that the really important payload reposed below deck - in bunches - at 54deg F
About 57 years ago I was one of 12 pax on the SS Cavina. I was exceptionally well treated by the crew :)

If Fyffes ran airlines .... :ok:


I do agree with PAXboy, though, and with Ancient Observer.

But Enough is Enough.

[call100]

Looking at how passengers are willing to allow the way they are treated generally, it amazes me how sensitive some can be about a fairly accurate description. In 30 years or more I have not heard them called SLF except on here. I have, however, heard them called far worse, depending where they are in the handling chain.....I have also heard passengers who have less than complimentary names for the various people who aid their passage.:*

[ExXB]

I've always thought it applied collectively - rather than individually. i.e. that aeroplane is full of SLF and not a SLF just got on that 'plane.

In either case it is an euphemism for (a) passenger(s), and a descriptive one.

[tinpis]

In Papua New Guinea at least 40 years ago the term was SLC
Self Loading Cargo
At least SLF don't have to endure the indignity of having a cargo net chucked over them :rolleyes:

[JEM60]

As SLF, when on a BA long haul, in conversation with some FAs, I have used the term to refer to myself. I find it endearing, and amusing, as they sometimes do. Never had a problem being called it. FAR too many more serious things going on in the world to be upset by that!!. Looking forward to travelling longhaul in March. With BA of course [who else!!!]

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Good luck, JEM60 - I'm booked LH in April, and just hoping it happens.


Oh, and don't call British ones "Flight Attendants" ... they don't like that. They're called "Cabin Crew".

[PAXboy]

Basil With regards the BA777 (we might as well make this thread serve some useful purpose) as well as reporting that some SLF did not realise it was a crash (like LAND / TAXI / PA about staying in your seat until we reach the terminal building / etc.) some proved that they WERE only SLF by trying to take their hand luggage with them ... :ugh: As far as I'm concerned, if we behave like that, the CC/FAs/Hosties can call us anything they like.

[Robin Pilot]

SLF speaking (to anyone offended by the term SLF):

For god sake. Can no one take a joke anymore? Why are there so many idiots in the world looking for offence in every damn thing?

Why does the world have to stop coming up with funny sayings or names because some idiots are born without a sense of humour?

Are you really that high up on your horse that you can't fathom the need for humour to brighten up and colour our lives a little? Yes there's a butt of the joke in this instance - as there is with every joke. We're humans, we take the p!$$ out of each other. It's not done with malice, it's actually done to cheer each other up. Get on with it.

So to anyone who is GENUINLY offended by the innocuous, silly and cheeky term "Self Loading Freight" then I say GROW UP, for god's sake.

If you can't laugh at yourself then you're probably missing the biggest joke ever told.

[TightSlot]

Thread now added to Forum FAQ

[6chimes]

In this instance maybe PPrune has become a victim of its own success. Here we have a forum where the boundaries between provider and customer are blurred.

As said many times before PPrune started as a place where pilots could talk to each other about their jobs. Due to the nature of the job, those that work in it are spread far and wide. Never are you all in the same place at the same time. So PPrune is absolutely perfectly placed to give colleagues in the industry an environment that would never happen in the 'real' world. There are very few careers where the same could be said.

The site has expanded to include those employed in other areas of aviation where the same limitations of talking amongst your colleagues apply.

Many pax who fly regularly enjoy the fact that they are more knowledgeable about flying than regular folk. (Note I don't use the term SLF, but pax which is still 3 letters and quicker to type than passenger or customer.) As such they feel an affinity to the business of flying and often have a misguided belief that they 'know' nearly as much about what goes on as those who are trained, qualified and experienced in the job. Even though they themselves are not.

In essence PPrune is like a members club where non members are welcome to enter and socialise. In the 'real' world if any of us went into a members club for a particular sport, would we as spectators even if we were life long fans, feel that we could assert our opposing views to how the game is played, with any authority? Of course our views as the spectator are vital but we are still in an environment that is not ours by right, we are guests. In the 'real' world we would see quite clearly that we were out of our depth or involved in conversations we had little technical knowledge about. Here in PPrune world the technical conversations are taking place in other areas of the clubhouse and essentially the 'guests' are huddled at the far end of the bar talking amongst themselves and the odd 'friendly' pro comes along to chat with you.

For those of you really against the term. Rather than pick on the 'in house' terminology, listen, you might learn more about the subject that you love.

SLF is not a term I've ever used or heard used outside here, but believe me we have far worse derogatory terms for each other in the industry. How would you like to be called a 'flying spanner'!!

Sorry longer than I anticipated... :O

6

[PAXboy]

6chimes... have a misguided belief that they 'know' nearly as much about what goes on as those who are trained, qualified and experienced in the job.Of COURSE we know more than anyone else on board!! The very fact that you suggest otherwise means that you have no idea of the intelligence, understanding and sheer brilliance of us wot noes wot we noes. :E

Really, these CC come into our PPRuNe cabin and fink they can boss us around ... :p
('cept for TS, of course) [Doffs cap] Thank you Guv for throwing us the chicken bones after you'd finished your dinner.

[lowcostdolly]

Paxboy :D:D. Somebody who hasn't had a sense of humour failure!!

I've been crew for a number of years and had never heard the term SLF used until I joined PPRune a few months ago. I thourght it really funny. It's not malicious in any way and can be quite apt at times for a number of reasons.....one outlined in your post yesterday :ok:

I started using it in this forum and got canned by a number of posters some of which are on this thread. For that reason, not wanting to upset ego's, I curtailed my use and now mostly only use the term if I'm reffering to myself when traveling as SLF.

TS is right. One can choose to take offence at anything or you can laugh it off. I laugh off the "trolleydolly" and "cart tart" labels as to me they are also humerous. In fact I chose my own user name to take the p!ss out of the stereotype. I'm not a "dolly" either in looks or intellect but I bet some pax may well have that perception in my use of this name.

Just to play devils advocate here please can I ask a question on feelings through the use of names.

In the pax forum there are some posters who frequently refer to security staff as "rejects" or "morons" or "animals" or even "retards" purely because of their job.

To those who are precious about the term SLF how do you think they might feel when reading that?

Just a thourght :hmm:

[clareprop]

Just a thourght

Darl,

You can call me anything you like. I'll just sit there safe in the knowledge....:E

[Thames virtual]

I'm another SLF - I just think it's a title that's a bit of fun. In my field, medicine, it's a bit like referring to the anaesthetist as the gasman (which we do!).

TV

[JEM60]

Thanks, Two Tone Blue. CC it is then. Spent too much time in the States, I guess.:):) Low Cost Dolly. Good post with good points.

[BRUpax]

SLF here. Love the term and would like to echo Robin Pilot's rant:

For god sake. Can no one take a joke anymore? Why are there so many idiots in the world looking for offence in every damn thing?

Why does the world have to stop coming up with funny sayings or names because some idiots are born without a sense of humour?

Are you really that high up on your horse that you can't fathom the need for humour to brighten up and colour our lives a little? Yes there's a butt of the joke in this instance - as there is with every joke. We're humans, we take the p!$$ out of each other. It's not done with malice, it's actually done to cheer each other up. Get on with it.

So to anyone who is GENUINLY offended by the innocuous, silly and cheeky term "Self Loading Freight" then I say GROW UP, for god's sake.

I have grave concerns about where this world is heading on the humour front.

[Hartington]

As the OP I've allowed the debate to continue without further comment. I wanted to learn from others here.

When I first joined Pprune I saw the term SLF, discovered what it meant, and laughed. Nice little insider joke that I was now privvy to.

And that was how I continued to treat it until last week when I started this thread.

Now, I'm sure that most people, most of the time, do use SLF as a bit of a joke with no malice intended. But, I'm sorry, I think there are occasions when the veil slips and it takes on a less acceptable connotation.

As others have said, all industries have their insider jokes and I know mine does. I also know that there are times when those jokes spill over to something less acceptable - that's life. I'd like to think that those unacceptable variants stay private but, in reality I know they don't - again, that's life, we're human.

I did appreciate the post made by F3G which I think summed up what I was (and am still trying) to say better than I can.

In the end, I think I may have overreacted.

[Chuchinchow]

It is worth noting that some people dislike being referred to as 'customers' on board the aircraft

What's wrong with that good, old-fashioned, word "passenger"?

[iwalkedaway]

There is much to recommend the term 'patron' - it is perfectly apposite, it infers that we are indeed the revenue providers of last resort, and - in current circumstances, I also confess to feeling highly inclined to 'patronise' the BASSA militant tendency in the run-up to their apparently fast approaching dismissals.

[ZarfBeam]

When flying with airline xy, I'm a Customer/Patron.
I expect to be treated like that (matching their level regarding price/value...).
This is a forum for professionals within the flying business, that means CC/FD and so on. And yes, from their point of view we are SLF part of their business. The more Self Loading, the better ;-)
As long as I'm treated as a customer (while behaving like a Patron, not like a King/Conqueror), I'm happy.

[Landroger]

I've been aware of the SLF epithet for many years and it has always brought a little smile to my lips. I suspect it is a term of endearment at times and a curse on others. I do not have to deal with the general public in my job, only healthcare professionals, so I don't get any of the grief that the public can and does hand out.

My friends in the health service are endlessly thoughtful and caring for their patients, yet I know many radiographers who have been assaulted. Beaten up in one case. So, 'the general public' - and that includes your passengers - can and do behave like oafs sometimes and at others I bet they can be charming and fun. So SLF probably covers it. :)

I love the 'Tonka Backseater' being referred to as 'Talking Ballast' and I bet many of them used it to describe themselves. :) I am an MRI and CT Scanner Field Engineer - some of our colleagues refer to us as 'Tractor Mechanics'. :ok:

Roger (Time to get back to a bit of tractor mechaniking)

[PAXboy]

Every line of work has slang for it's customers [insert name of choice] and you can ask the 'caring' professions too. A medical doctor pal of mine has the most ghastly things to say about some of his patients - but when he is with them, he takes great care of them. That's what human beings do.

I have been in service industries all my life. From aged 16 when I worked in a department store on Saturdays and school holidays, through telecommunications, then a consultant in that field to now in a highly specialised field that involves great delicacy, tact and all sorts of stuff with people that emotionally highly vulnerable. Today, a family that I worked for on Wednesday emailed an apology for their demands and behaviour. Mostly they don't. Sometimes, when I get back from helping people - I have been known to say some unkind things about them ... welcome to the world!

SLF? I think it's a VERY funny label.

[Scarbagjack]

Words are just that...words.
Dont bruise,dont hurt,dont afffect.
I have no problem at all with SLF. Humor is the most endearing human atribute, in my opion. Why shouldnt the people in aviation use humor to enhance thier working days? No reason they shouldn't.
I have read some very funny stuff since I joined this forum.
Keep smiling folks!

SLF?...MFW!

[amf1966]

Agree with many others here - every industry has it's own insider slang, acronyms etc, doesn't bother me one little bit.

I wonder sometimes, whether folk feel they should be "offended" by something rather than actually being offended at all.

Call me what you like amongst yourselves, just as long as I get treated with a degree of respect when travelling and good customer service etc.

[Scarbagjack]

Call me what you like amongst yourselves, just as long as I get treated with a degree of respect when travelling and good customer service etc.

Nicely said,amf1966.
I try to abide by " treat others how you would like yourself to be treated..unless thier actions dictate otherwise"

I dont understand why passengers would create for themselves, ( by worrying about terminology), a tense uncomfortable enviroment whilst contained in a confined space for hours on end. I think that at 35000ft, apart from different levels of legroom and stretch-ability, also the different quality of vino available, we are all pretty much in the same " boat".

Happy Landings.

[Keepthembodiesmoving]

Like it says in the OP´s quote of the moderator, it´s pprune vernacular.
Must be because I have never heard it used anywhere else.

Hartington, taking exception to innocent matters like these can cause premature greying, acid reflux and a sour loking face.
Beware! ;)

[Mr Optimistic]

SLF? Better than being called 'payload'. No issues here.

[chrissw]

In many jobs where the staff have to interface directly with the public, it - they, the public that is - can be very trying sometimes. There are some areas of work where maintaing a sense of humour and a sense of detachment are perhaps the only way of maintaining your sanity.

Hence the medical profession has a particularly grim form of gallows humour (or so I'm told, since I'm not in that profession myself); in my area of work we sometimes call the end users of the IT systems which we design and maintain "lusers." You get the idea. It's more of a coping mechanism, and is very, very rarely meant maliciously. Indeed if malice is intended, then I could certainly come up with something a bit richer than "luser."

So if those who help to keep us firstly safe, and secondly fed and watered while we're on board, want to call us SLF when we're out of earshot, then that's fine with me. I don't see any point in making heavy weather out of this very natural and very human bit of behaviour.

[Rhayader]

As a frequent SLF all I do is load myself on time and in a correct manner, comply with instructions and generally be a good boy. All I ask is an occasional refreshment and maybe a bite to eat if it is over a couple of hours flight and if it is not too much trouble can I get a seat away from the bassinet? Been there....

:}

[kenhughes]

Keepthembodiesmoving
Like it says in the OP´s quote of the moderator, it´s PPRuNe vernacular.
Must be because I have never heard it used anywhere else.

A late friend of mine, who was an airline captain, used the term self-loading cargo. This was long before the advent of PPRuNe.

Personally, I like Self-Moving Ballast. Being slightly overweight, it seems more appropriate.

In my line of work, anyone who uses our software (mainly pilots, but some office bods too), are known as Lusers, (a combination of Losers and Users). Some of my colleagues even have LARTs - Luser Attitude Readjustment Tools, such as baseball bats, hammers, large wrenches etc. I suspect some CC/FAs could make good use of a LART every now and then. :8

[Entaxei]

I am very bemused to find that a post I wrote and got rapped over the knuckles for, is still alive'ish and causing waves. Whilst not wishing to start the whole barrel rolling again, I would like to just pick out the thought that was behind the post and which was not clearly defined within it.

If you downgrade the importance of your market and source of income in your thinking and potentially your operation, it will have an effect on your operation.

Given, in this case, that the union drive is to take over/maintain control and command of the operation in place of the management, the more that can be done to downgrade the management and operation is viewed as being to the benefit of the union.

They have already attacked the pilots to some effect in creating dissent with various elements of CC, witness some of the more vitrolic posts and stylised name calling. To turn the CC against the source of business and cause more dissent by starting to address/discuss the passengers in a derogatary manner could be easily achieved when you start from a baseline of SLF coupled with spin and lies - so this post was meant to highlight those possibilities (not very well!). - it was never intended to be a lecture to CC!! - there are too many of you!! ;)

Just for the record, I am not a CC not do I currently work in the aviation industry, but, I did work for both BOAC and BEA for 15 years (1957 - 1972), including 11 years on the hangars. I have spent the last 38 years in the computer industry, in various roles and have obviously done a reasonable amount of travelling during that time whilst remaining an aviation enthusiast despite the odds!! - and while the term SLF has apparently been around for ever, during the 1950's;1960;s and early 1970's, in BOAC and BEA we used the term passengers - but there goes the neighbourhood!! :ok:

Cheers

(p.s. this post is NOT intended to upset anyone - despite rumours)

[Pohutu]

Like many others, I find the term SLF amusing. I'm more bothered by the fact that most SLF aren't very good at it - nicely demonstrated in the 'Overhead baggage anyone?' thread in the CC forum.

[Donkey497]

Should've added to my earlier post.

Seriously looking for a "Professional SLF" World Tour T-shirt. PPRuNe ID on it is optional, but would be appreciated.

Anybody know where I could get one (or two)?

Got to have "Are We There Yet?" on the back, Naturally......

Donkey:ok:

[rowan11]

Personally I do not particularly like the term SLF, quite happy to be just a 'passenger'.

Not sure if name calling sits well in the 21st century commercial/business world.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks

[Pegpilot]

It is my understanding, too, that the term SLF was initially coined by the military. But no-one in the armed forces is immune from such nick-names. One such monicker for pilot in the RAF was "Growbag". Why ? Well apparently they come in green and are full of sh*t !

[LandIT]

Apparently, Virgin Blue are encouraged to refer to passengers as Guests. Personally, when I fly on Virgin as one of their Guests I feel as if I should be a little under some obligation to behave nicely as a guest should. Perhaps this is part of the strategy, to avoid the "customer is always right" issues.
I think SLF is fine in industry circles and most would take it in good humour in public circles.
Having recently flown Qantas and being warmly welcomed and farewelled by the customer service manager, actually referred to as the CSM by other crew, I would be happy to be a passenger or a customer. As I paid for the flight, I am not perfectly comfortable with being referred to as a guest!

[Der absolute Hammer]

I do not know what happened to the FPP - the fare paying passanger.
I thought the SLF was FOB and referred to staff travellers.

[fernytickles]

4 pages of debate on "the term SLF"...... :D

Only on pprune.....

[Ancient Observer]

Disliking the term "SLF" has nothing whatsoever to do with a sense of humour failure.
I dislike the term for reasons about what it says about Aviation's culture.

Industry sectors can be classified in many ways. One simple classification is "Producer" focus versus "Customer" focus.

Aviation, from its birth amongst the Civil Servants and Armed Forces in many countries, has always had a Producer focus. It is concerned about itself, rather than its customers. I moved in to Aviation from the Customer-focussed Service sector, and the changes in attitudes were a shock to me.

It was a mini-revolution in the Aviation sector when South West came along. They had a clear Customer focus. Virgin Atlantic tries to emulate them.

Like it or not, any sector that has a culture that allows phrases such as SLF to survive is a Producer focussed sector. Those that adopt fully a Consumer focus are far more likely to survive.

Legacy carriers with a "Producer" culture will not survive in an increasingly competitive world.

The mods and I do not agree about this. That's fine, as PPRuNe has always tolerated different opinions.

[SLFguy]

Once lowcostdolly replies to my post the circle will have been closed.

:}

[Basil]

Passengers are also customers. On Ships, aircraft, busses, taxis and trains they are traditionally and correctly referred to as passengers. Let's cut the PC nonsense.

I would not refer to a passenger to their face as SLF but have no objection to the use of the term in jest amongst staff. Those of you who take offence at the use of such a term should perhaps ask medical operating theatre staff what references to the anaesthetised patient they have heard :)

[The SSK]

I first came across SLF decades ago in Roger Bacon's Straight and Level column in Flight International.

I always assumed he'd invented it, along with Reginald S. Potter (Reggie Spotter), Rollo Freelunch the aviation PR man and Monty Orangeball the sensationalist aviation journalist.

Ahhh De Havilland !

[Entaxei]

Given some of the responses in above posts, could I just try and adjust the thrust of my original post.

There was no failure of humour, I too found the phrase SLF funny, as others have said its an 'industry in-joke' - my thought/question however was two fold -

Firstly was it good for an industry to have no clear/respected? target/market for its wares and services apart from this acronym -

Secondly with the current rampaging union problem with its lies/spin machine and the rifts they have tried/succeeded in creating between CC's internally, management and apparently in some cases with flight crews, SLF could also become a target for vitrol to the detriment of the operation.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Last weekend we took my father in law to Walter Sisulu park for the day.
As he painfully hauled himself out of the jeep and we helped him in to his old and battered wheel chair, I made some comment or other about self loading freight bloody well hurrying up - in native dialect you understand. I do not seem to remember being quite so unpopular since the day I actually married his daughter.

[Final 3 Greens]

Let's cut the PC nonsense.

All for that.

From now on, all Airbus pilots will be known as 'Sysops.'

[Duffus]

As has been stated earlier the term SLF probably originated in the military where people are nothing more than freight that needs to be delivered from A to B. Its use in the civilian sector by CC and others is simply a way to make themselves feel superior and belittle the passengers. Personally I do not care, if it keeps them amused so what.

[Der absolute Hammer]

Much more likely, I would suggest, that it had something to do with that terrible abomination which is forever hung as an albatross around the necks of the European descendant of man with an occasional dash of the Oriental thrown in by the original inhabitants of that great and totally abused theatre of culture Africa.
I refer, of course, to the slave trade.

[Argus]

As has been stated earlier the term SLF probably originated in the military where people are nothing more than freight that needs to be delivered from A to B. Its use in the civilian sector by CC and others is simply a way to make themselves feel superior and belittle the passengers. Personally I do not care, if it keeps them amused so what.

You start well but fade in the straight. Unless you're into self flagellation, why would you spend hard earned money to be belittled? Seems to be de rigueur with former state owned carriers - see Choice airline consumer survey | Australians name worst airline (http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/worst-airline-australians-make-their-choice-20100331-rehy.html)

[Duffus]

Thanks for the reply, but you can be sure that I am not into any form of self harm or have any masochistic tendancies. I am simply saying (in my own way) that SLF is not a phrase I can get worked up about.
Having been SLF on many a C130 Its use in the private sector is misleading and untrue and therefore in my eyes can be ignored.

[SLFguy]

lowcostdolly..

er..it was my *cough* attempt at humour:sad:

[jetset lady]

..Its use in the civilian sector by CC...


But thats the point, Duffus. As others have tried to say, it's not generally used in the civilian sector by CC. If you were to say SLF or even the full term of Self Loading Freight to most, they would look at you blankly without having a clue what you are talking about. Outside of the forums, it's not a well known or indeed well used expression. The majority of cabin crew know the people that board the aircraft collectively as passengers, or pax when in the written form.

[Basil]

all Airbus pilots will be known as 'Sysops.'
Very important question:
Do Sysops get paid more than pilots? :)

[lowcostdolly]

SLFguy

Apologies for my complete sense of humour failure :O

Guess I was having one of those "terrier with their tail cuaght in the door days".

They can happen after a run of 4 sector days/long duty's as JSL will confirm I'm sure ;)

I've deleted my post in contrition!

[rgbrock1]

SLF? You can call me anything you want. Just don't get me to my destination too late!!!!! :E:ok:

[Eboy]

You can call me anything you want. Just don't get me to my destination too late!!!!!

With ash delays, the word "patient" came to mind.

And, with low-cost the fashion, I thought of "shoppers."

Enough of that.

I don't find the term SLF objectionable and indeed find it rather humorous. As we have seen in these comments, the industry does not seek to offend passengers. It has a sense of humor.

More importantly, it is part of the culture of the airline industry. I think one respects other cultures. Part of respecting other cultures is to partake in aspects of other cultures that you normally would not, such as language. It is one way of making connections. No pun intended.

[johnoWhiskyX]

Self loading freight..Doesn't bother me really as long as they dont try to treat you like freight.
If i heard it from the mouth of a Cabin Crew i would feel justified in using my pet names for them, which of course i would not normally do to their face.
Professionalism and courtesy works both ways.

[Torchwood]

The term is quite funny. No objection at all.

Except in a Ryanair context, where the irony gets a bit lost.

[J4CKO99]

I quite like it but its a bit old, need some new ones, how about,

"Lift Thief"

"1st floor Baggage"

Any more ?

[PAXboy]

In some countries I understand that we are referred to as:

"The cargo that talks back"

[77]

What a lot of fuss. I don't know where the phrase SLF came from, but in over 30+ years on the flight deck with a mixture from military and civilian background I have never heard the term SLF, until I read PPrune.
I don't think it is in common use, maybe this thread has made it appear more common than it actally is.
If it is a term used by cabin crew they have never used it in my earshot.
Pax, passengers is always used, in my experience.

[Lonewolf_50]

Pax, passengers is always used, in my experience.

Pax/PAX is easier to say.

SLF: so much for brevity being the soul of "endearing" wit. :bored:

[BEagle]

I think that the term 'Self Loading Freight' originated in RAF Transport Command?

I don't mind it at all - and neither should the 'Trolley Tarts' mind that cheeky nickname either. And I do know where the term came from - as explained to me by a delightful ba TriStar #1 with whom I once enjoyed a memorable errm, 'encounter' in Bermuda many years ago. Such a delightful young lady.....:E

[muduckace]

As an aviation professional I am disturbed by the use of the term. You are our customers, we would not have a job with out you and furthermore it represents weakness on our part to de-humanize the people we cater to just in order to justify our poor attitude and bitter outlook on our jobs.

Most of this seems to come from what some call "stewardesses" or "stewards". They hate the reference. Most of them have just about 0 further education so this does not surprise me. I have met many hard working wonderful flight attendants in my day who take their jobs seriously. I suppose flying cargo over PAX simplifies a pilots job (other than the hours).

Bottom line is publically disrespecting your customer base because the rapidly declining quality of an industry makes your job harder is no excuse to blow it off as a "term of endearment" within public view.

[TightSlot]

You simply haven't read the previous posts on this thread, have you?

[Avman]

More like no sense of humour. :rolleyes:

[Sir Niall Dementia]

We refer to our passengers as customers, until we get to the load sheet where they appear as PAX.

On board the aircraft we have a very irreverant attitude to each others' jobs/titles with the Suspension/Brake Test Dept being up the front and the Galley Slaves down the back. I've seen meal trays arrive in the front labelled "front left pop/front right pop" on them (POP being poncy, overpaid pilot) but all done with good grace and mutual respect. But the passengers are always Sir or Madam unless instructed otherwise by the person concerned (VVIP corporate/charter provider so very few customers on board and often the same ones week in week out)

Before training as a pilot I served a short service comission as an infantry officer and the RAF always referred to us as SLF, that was the military and we didn't care so long as they didn't get lost or crash. The regiment I was very proud to serve in had two types of officers according to the other ranks: there were Wodneys, officers thwoo and thwoo, and Wuperts, officers who had come up thwoo the w**ks!

[SassyPilotsWife]

As the daughter of a UAL retiree ( 50 years seniority now) and wife of a pilot, I had never heard the term SLF until joining Pprune. When i first saw it I thought hmm is that all we are? Then I wondered when this name was applied to PAX. I compared flying years ago to now and the name surely fits. PAX are trying to fit everything but the kitchen sink into carry on bags for convenience. This has been going on long before airlines started charging for 1st or 2nd bags. Now you see PAX bringing on 3 carry ons if they can get away with it and often do. Now we also bring on our own food, entertainment ( dvd players). Yep, we're definitely carrying on our own freight LOL. As for me though, i prefer the term PP. Paycheck Provider. Ohhh the old days of filet mignon dinners, real silverware and salt and pepper shakers. As my Dad says.. DAMN DE- REGULATION

[PAXboy]

I like your postings SassyPilotsWife, so it is with good humour that I point out that, one man's "DAMN DE- REGULATION" is another man's "Yee-ha! I get to travel by aeroplane"

Simplistic, I know as many, many things were changed by the deregulation and not all good. But that's good ol' humans for you. As soon as one bunch have made things the way they like them - the next generation will change them! Right now? Another generation is changing the game once more and, this time, many of the folks doing the changing are SLF. Now - that is a change!

[ACL1011]

"SLF" cracks me up. Sometimes I ask when steerage class will be loading.

Every field has it's own terms that could cause umbrage to outsiders. Those who think that 'SLF' is insulting should stay well away from the inside conversations of cops (my brother has a lot of cop friends) and those of us in the medical field! Sometimes in medicine and law enforcement, if you don't laugh, you'll cry.

[PAXboy]

I agree, ACL1011, for the most part the members of the funeral trades are respectful - but they have jargon and stories and jokes. Just like everyone else.

[Mr Optimistic]

I've heard the term from ex-RAF guys, was told it was coined for paratroopers. But 'lift thief' ?

[Winch-control]

In the Mil world....Tea Coffee or Me? a phrase coined frquently in (my time) the mil, usually by pylits that have forgotten they are just taxi drivers... and it is ALL just banter!
As is SLF, along with self loading baggage and a waist of oxygen/oxygen thief and a myriad of other phrases.

Wearing white gloves on SAR? Usual question, Ice creams? (doesn't apply to SH (that's support helis not short haul) they wear green gloves...

Favourite phrase's? deadweights, or un-useable fuel, (not in the commercial context though)!:=:ok: