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MARK9263
7th Feb 2010, 11:13
I am researching into the following UK airways of the early 1970's.
Can anyone give me the details of the following airways, where they started and finished and also the frequencies under their control if possible....
AMBER ONE
BLUE ONE
RED THREE
AMBER 25


I think they still exist but there 'start and finish' points may now be different.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Mark

2 sheds
7th Feb 2010, 14:54
Mark

Check PMs.

2 s

Talkdownman
7th Feb 2010, 17:51
I have masses of SATCC/LATCC information from the late fifties, sixties (in particular 1964-67) and seventies including my original Mediator briefing documents (Winter 1970-1971). Subject to any Alzheimers I can probably still remember some of it (ingrained in my memory, threes, fives and eights) as a Stage-Half 'A'-Side controller, North Bank and South Bank Wing-Man and North bank Sector Controller.....far, far too much to PM. Charts, Half Mils from when A1 at DTY was 10nm wide, metal strip holders, bendy strip holders, Oceanic strip holders, all sorts of [email protected]. Course notes from No.43 Assistants Course, it's all a fire risk!

Aaah De Havilland, Lichfield NDB 125.9 Daventry NDB 124.6 Beacon Hill Fan-Burnham Fan -Chertsey Fan 127.1 Dunsfold Radio Range 127.7 Seaford VOR-Dieppe type stuff etc

1966

Amber One PWK-NGY-DCS-Burtonwood-LIC-DTY etc
Scottish Airways 128.5
Scottish Airways 124.5
Preston Airways 124.2
Preston Airways 125.9
London Airways 124.6
London Airways 127.7

Blue One Liffey WAL Oldham Ottringham Dogger Blubell etc
W of WAL 124.2
E of WAL 125.1
(This route began life as Green Two....!)

Red Three
128.5 BEL 125.1 IOM 125.1 WAL 124.2 Whitegate 125.6 etc

Amber 25
WAL 124.2 KNI 131.2 BCN BHD 125.2 50N

Loads and loads more more.

And that's all out me 'ead from memory before I go up the loft.....

PM me with what you want and I'll dig it out.........

MARK9263
7th Feb 2010, 19:08
Have PM'd you....

chiglet
8th Feb 2010, 00:21
I remember looking at an early airways map and Upper Amber1 started at STN [Stornoway] and finished at Hong Kong :ok: although not in a straight line

ZOOKER
8th Feb 2010, 16:46
Mark,
Don't forget the 2 airways established to widen AMBER ONE in the late '60s/early 70s.

AMBER ONE WEST,,,,,,,,,,,Whitegate - Stafford - Honiley.

AMBER ONE EAST............Pole Hill - Lichfield East - Daventry.

Can anyone scan any Aerad or similar charts to the web from the inception of 'airways' to the 1970s?

MARK9263
8th Feb 2010, 19:17
Thanks for that. Your suggestion is a great idea and there must be guys out there that have that info and might want to share it...?

chiglet
8th Feb 2010, 22:41
Remember, when LAP [LHR now] changed runway, the Airway System changed too, London on 28....."clockwise flow" 10, "anti-clock"....
eeeh, them were't days

Atcham Tower
9th Feb 2010, 08:03
At Preston, the cry used to go up: "London on easterlies!"

chiglet
9th Feb 2010, 21:32
And at PATCRU the cry was "Oh Beggar"

Hyperborean
10th Feb 2010, 15:26
That sounds a lot more polite than the PATCRU I knew!;)

chiglet
11th Feb 2010, 21:37
We were more "Civilised" then

captain.speaking
12th Feb 2010, 10:08
I have a copy of the above and would be happy to send a scan by e-mail to anyone who has the technical knowledge to post it here - I don't !

MARK9263
12th Feb 2010, 13:25
Thanks for replying.
Tried to see how to do it, bit puzzled myself how to attach the scanned image..!

GK430
13th Feb 2010, 11:47
Not the vintage you are looking for, but might help a little
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/z-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/z-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/z-3.jpg

Jonjo Air
18th Feb 2010, 17:17
Hello,

I have also been trying to find information on airways and frequencies from the sixties onwards. Would those who have PM'ed be willing to share this information?

Much appreciated,
Jonjo

MARK9263
20th Feb 2010, 14:20
GK430.

Great maps..!
But can you give me dates for them ?



Thanks

GK430
20th Feb 2010, 19:56
Mark,

The Jeppesen was from '88 and the EUR1 / EUR2 from June '92.
I had a much older EUR1/2......but finding it - sorry!

Hmm - I hope I am not infringeing anything by 're-producing' these here?
Will remove if that is the case, but they are well out of date!!

UG 1 from STR - though to DVR and beyond was much the same for years.

GK

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/Emirates/z-4.jpg

MARK9263
23rd Feb 2010, 06:52
Does anyone have any ATC frequencies from the 1970's ?

Am looking for Airways frequencies and Manchester frequencies in particular...

Back at NH
26th Feb 2010, 14:45
London Pole Hill sector was on 132.7, DTY sector on 133.7 and the area south of WAL (don't know which sector that was) on 133.6 if memory serves me right. Standard route from Scottish TMA to LHR was Dean Cross - Pole Hill - Stafford - Honiley - Kingswood - Bovingdon.

Ah memories.

ZOOKER
26th Feb 2010, 20:00
Preston used 127.45 for southbound traffic on A1E. Aircraft were transferred to London on 135.25, just after the 'Lichfield East' position report.
Lichfield East was a compulsory reporting point, and the Preston(EGNN) / London(EGTT) FIR boundary was at 5230N.
125.9 was also a Preston Frequency.
The London frequency 133.6 is still in use for the same area today and 133.7 was still used for Daventry in the mid 1980s.
Border Radar, at RAF Boulmer, worked traffic outside outside Controlled Airspace NE of Pole Hill on 132.9.
When Manchester Sub-Centre opened in 1975, I think they used 133.05 for traffic over the Irish Sea below FL135. This frequency covers the same general area today.
In the mid 70s, 120.8 was used by the sub-centre, between Lichfield and Manchester Airport, again at FL135 and below.

MARK9263
3rd Mar 2010, 07:54
Regarding MANCHESTER airport itself...
I have the following for the mid-70's

TWR 118.7
APP 119.4
GROUND 121.7
ATIS 121.95
SOUTHBOUND DEPARTURES 124.2
WESTBOUND DEPARTURES 125.1
NORTH/EAST DEPARTURES 126.65

Unless anyone knows any better ?

raypuff
8th Sep 2012, 17:10
Maybe somebody in this forum can help! In 1984 we flew on a KLM 747 from AMS-JFK. The cabin map showed a portion of our route as Glasgow - Skipness - 57'N 10'W. ( BLUFA UB1 UB13 GOW SKP NAT D 57N10W ) Skipness VOR doesn't exist on any maps I can find now! Since this thread is about older airways in the UK, can anyone remember or help! THANK YOU!

Musket90
9th Sep 2012, 22:01
raypuff - If my memory serves me well UB13 routed Newcastle-Talla-GOW and whilst the cabin route map showed GOW-Skipness it's unlikely the aircraft routed to Skipness as all aircraft destined for 57N 10W via GOW routed direct from GOW. I believe Skipness was used prior to the introduction of GOW.

Skipness VOR was located on the north part of the Mull of Kintyre. Not sure of it's exact postion but on Google Earth measure about 30 to 33nm distance on a heading of about 300deg from Prestwick's runway 31 and it's in that vicinity.

raypuff
9th Sep 2012, 22:27
Thank you Musket 90! I kinda wondered about that since from my back seat navigation log shows:

TALLA
GLASGOW 043nm 306'
SKIPNESS 038 264' (Estimated position)
57'N 10W 165 305'



It's like you are going 40' out of the way to hit Skipness! Thank you for your expert advice! I'll adjust my logs to show GOW to 57'N 10'W


Ray

captain.speaking
10th Sep 2012, 09:48
Ray

My 1987 Aerad chart shows Skipness VOR [ SKP 113.00 ] at
N55 44.6, W005 31.8, and 35 nm from the PIK VOR.

Richard.

GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU
10th Sep 2012, 22:07
Ah, the good old days when airways had proper (memorable) names.

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/368474-atc-history-3.html#post4843555

raypuff
13th Sep 2012, 13:20
Thank you Richard

Skipness One Echo
15th Sep 2012, 01:31
....used to be a SID from PIK. Anyone have a scanned copy?
Wasn't the VOR for Prestwick PWK? I believe it was a straight name change to today's Turnberry / TRN?

raypuff
8th Nov 2012, 13:19
With all the replies about Skipness and then Glasgow VOR; I cam across a tidbit on EBAY. A 1967 chart that shows Talla VOR and Skipness VOR but no Glasgow VOR. Anybody know when Glasgow VOR was comissioned?

JW411
8th Nov 2012, 16:11
MARGO was the wife of a friend of mine back in the 1980s. She was a controller in Scottish. I seem to remember that she was very embarrassed by the whole business.

India Four Two
8th Nov 2012, 17:09
My 1987 Aerad chart shows Skipness VOR [ SKP 113.00 ] at
N55 44.6, W005 31.8, and 35 nm from the PIK VOR.


And if you look at that location on Google Earth, the VOR location is clearly still visible 100 m SW of that point, on the crest of a 170 m hill.

Musket90
9th Nov 2012, 20:03
Don't know precisely but it was introduced late 60's.

fault code
10th Nov 2012, 14:13
I seem to recall that in the late seventies Daventry northbounds worked 135.25 then 131.05 towards Polehill then Scottish 126.25 for Glasgow, 128.5 for Edinburgh and 135.85 for Aberdeen, Inverness and Oceanic. Wallasey was 128.05, Honiley 133.7, Brecon 133.6, Manchester 124.2 (south) and 126.65 (north), Berry Head 132.6, Dover 134.9, Lydd 127.1, Midhurst 127.7. I can't remember the North Sea sector frequency.

Skipness One Echo
15th Sep 2016, 12:43
All - where was the PWK VOR then?

Shackman
15th Sep 2016, 14:27
PWK VOR - 55'18.80N 04'47.00W

mcdhu
15th Sep 2016, 20:48
.......or was it Garston for LHR and NHT?
mcdhu

ZOOKER
15th Sep 2016, 21:36
Yes it was Garston. It was replaced by the Bovingdon VOR