Essential Reg Info Poject for LAE's

[woptb]

I've been asked to assist a former workmate in getting together essential information for the 'working' Licenced Engineer. I no longer work on the tools so thought I might throw it open to the floor.What regulatory & quality info would you like included; on just one site/in a handbook or talked about on a course?
I thought about legal responsabilities,reporting systems & what quality can let you get away with.Maybe the MEL?
What do you think,any ideas about what info you'd like included?

[GS John]

"What Quality can let you get away with". :=

They're not the ones who certify a legal document so I'd be very wary of knowing what they'll let you get away with, as, unless it's in writing, you'll be the one for the high jump if you're outside the company procedures / Part 145 / Part M etc.

Knowing you company procedures, how they affect you, what could happen if you go outside them, how to change them would be a starter, but most companies have found different ways to skin their cat as it depends on whether they have a MOE or CAME or CAMME.

[nodrama]

No matter how you are employed to work on aircraft in the UK, connie or permie, you will be working under a company's 145 approval. As stated above, knowing that company's MOE/ CAME, and being familiar with the approved MEL for the aircraft types you are working on, is all you need to know.

[Rigga]

Certainly the MOE & procedures are important - But shouldn't these be included in the company approval processes?

"What Quality can let you get away with" is written in the MOE Parts 2, L2 and 3.


For NEW Engineers and Technicians:

First and foremost - What are the priveliges of your Part 66 licence?
What can you do?
What can't you do?

...then read the MOE..."that's HOW we do it, here at (insert location)!"

[woptb]

"The what quality can let you get away with",was meant as a light hearted statement.What I want every LME to know is where the line lies.There are certain occaisions when your told by the duty QA guy that its acceptable to work outside the'box'. It's the sort of stuff you wished you'd known when you first became a certifier.
There were certainly times when as a younger man people pulled the wool over my eyes.As somebody who has been in the industry for 30 + years I've been in situations where almost 'intolerable ' pressure has been brought to bear.
I was hoping to help put something together for those who are just about to become or who are new certifiers.
So thanks for the emoticon & the pontificating,gives me a nice warm feeling inside!

[nodrama]

There are certain occaisions when your told by the duty QA guy that its acceptable to work outside the'box'.


Ah, but is the QA guy certifying it? ...and if he is supporting the decision with documentation, it is the priviledge of his position and as the NAA's 'representative' at the company.....and he will be (hopefully) working to an MOE/ CAME also.

A statement like that depends very much on circumstances, how much the engineer values (and understands) his certification priviledges, and how big his balls are.

It's not something for a book on common practice 'handy tips'.

[matkat]

Being a QA 'Guy' myself I would never dream of saying that whats the point of QA when it is hinting that the rules/regs can be bent or ignored?

[Blacksheep]

I've been in situations where almost 'intolerable ' pressure has been brought to bear.Me too, and just about everybody else. A cheerful but insistent request to have it in writing normally suffices to extricate one from such a situation. I'd suggest that methods of dealing with such awkward situations would be one of the most useful things to include in your proposed compendium of essential information.

[GS John]

What might be usefull is a "what can you ADD and what you can't" as there seems to be some engineers (and pilots) who think that if they have a pen, then anything is fair game for being deferred.

[woptb]

Just so Blacksheep. The reason I posted was to ask for people's thought's on getting together information for new or inexperienced certifiers,perhaps so they don't unknowingly transgress.
If in including a few unqualified statements about the type of information that might be included.Mea Culpa. You know & understand when your being asked to step over the bounds of your certification priveleges,but some don't.
Rather than having to attend the school of hard knocks for themselves perhaps a little assistance would'nt go amiss!

[Beeline]

I think I understand what your are trying to do woptb but people need to learn at there own pace when first becoming certified, no amount of reading and prep can prepare you for signing that first box, I was a real cocky so and so once I had passed all my exams, I knew everthing there is and was about aircraft engineering, but in hindsight Im glad I had a few knocks to bring me back down to earth, I knew nothing!

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Exams are good for underpinning knowledge but thats where it stops, working alongside good blokes and learning yourself is paramount, it takes years and im still learning, so are the best 35 yr service blokes I work with, but the kitchen is hot sometimes and if you can't hack it , get out of there. Only the fittest and nurtured will survive; and that takes time.

Procedures are there to protect that of the companies interest and not yours, intuition and experience is the only way to use them to your advantage. Cover your ass with them. A great man once said 'you're only as good as your last 'S'!
:ok:

[Gas Bags]

My experience with QA people is get in writing first. This is no matter whether you are driving or fixing.

GB

[hashman]

QA are employed by the company, first and foremost, to protect the companies interest. They are there to ensure that, God forbid, if there is an incident, the Managers and the Company are in the clear. They will very rarely put anything in writing, this is to ensure that they themselves are not drawn into the quagmire.

What would I try to teach the new generation of engineers???? How about how to become Designers, sit behind a desk and enjoy life and family. Work steady hours without the stress and hardship of continually changing shift work. People on the tools are the first to be 'sacrificed' in times of hardship, the Certifying engineer is the first to be arrested at times of incident. Designers don't work Bank Holidays, Christmas or outside in freezing temperatures.

Protected in their offices, computers as their slaves, clean and pleasant surroundings, tea and coffee within arm-reach, :{ if I was 20 years younger....