Ethiopian Airlines [Archive]

GoForIt

9th Feb 2010, 01:01

Interview includes a medical that takes most of the day due to a lot of waiting around. Standard stuff, including chest xray, blood work, EKG. No EEG.

Sim ride is very straight forward, no surprises. Steep turns, stall series, 2 engine approach, 2 engine missed, Eng fail at V1, SE approach, SE missed. Normal landing.

Interview with Director of Ops and one management lady (HR?) lasted 45 minutes to an hour. Lots of questions about leadership. Some simple technical stuff. Nothing complicated. Open ended questions.

They will put you in a hotel that is clean and comfortable. Huge rooms. But it is on the edge of the city, and there isn't much around it. All meals in the hotel restaurant are paid for.

That is all I can think of. The whole thing took 1.5 days for me. There is nothing mysterious or unusual about the process. Just go in there and be yourself.

GoForIt

Bahamapilot

9th Feb 2010, 02:34

GoForIt, what requirements are they looking for

GoForIt

9th Feb 2010, 13:31

I don't recall what the requirements are, but they are on their web site, in the careers section.

angelorange

9th Feb 2010, 17:42

Thanks for the info Goforit!

Are you working for them now?

Best

AO

captplaystation

10th Feb 2010, 09:09

Anyone have a rough idea what they pay a 737 skipper, and whether it is possible to work a roster that "might" allow commuting ?
Thanks folks.

captplaystation

15th Feb 2010, 20:33

Anybody ? anything to tell, good bad or just informative, much appreciated.

pyles1

4th Mar 2010, 15:16

Are the pilots at Ethiopian represented by a union? :)

169west

27th Apr 2010, 15:03

... anybody is using FCI for sending the application to ET?thanks

Birdy767

27th Apr 2010, 20:55

Very nice network, high standard, very friendly peoples, not everything is perfect regarding organization but improving...and of course not the best T&C

Life in Addis is cool, good weather, cheap costs except cars and "housing"

yankeetango

6th May 2010, 18:08

Hi catplaystation , Don`t even think about commuting ,the 737 is very busy and the guys are flying almost everyday. The pay is not bad especially if you work overtime which you will for sure.

yankeetango

6th May 2010, 18:10

Hi pyles1, Yes there is ALPA ETHIOPIA.

hss

23rd May 2010, 04:08

yes same days off 6 weeks on 10 days off no travel days
dont count on getting paid all your owed

chapola

25th May 2010, 23:21

dont count on getting paid all your owed

first I've heard about this; care to elaborate?

Turkpilot

26th May 2010, 16:29

I was just hired here. People are great, this is for the B737NG. Take home 8300 a month which is 6500 base and 1800 perdeim/month. They give ya about 1250 USD a month for housing. Some things are not perfect, but its africa. Yes, 10 days off every 6 weeks so no prob for commuting plus biz class ticket to wherever they go. I know they are having trouble with retaining guys so there are rumors about increase pay and maybe get onto some other a/c.

captplaystation

28th May 2010, 16:06

8300, I guess we are talking $ ? and 1250$ on top , so 9550$ total ?

How much does housing cost ?

Thanks

Turkpilot

30th May 2010, 11:47

nope, 8300 including perdiem

captplaystation

30th May 2010, 20:47

Just to be clear, 8300 plus 1250 all figures in USD ? or 8300 € plus 1250$,

or just plain ol 8300$ :rolleyes: TOTAL.

Do you know yet how much it is going to cost you to find somewhere to live that you WANT to live in ?

Thinking about this for later in the year, any other info you can tell us after you have been there a little while will be much appreciated :ok:

Turkpilot

31st May 2010, 09:48

8300USD plus 1250USD perdiem. Places usually run from 700 to 1000 a month.

captplaystation

31st May 2010, 11:04

Thanks for that :ok: let us know how you feel after a few months.

Perhaps rather than offering more money/bigger types to fly, they would attract more people by offering more (or more frequent) time off.

6weeks/10 days isn't the worst, but it is a long way from the best too, particularly if you lose 2 of these days coming home & then back.

Good luck anyhow, watch your FMA !

luftwaffe

31st May 2010, 11:51

Hi fellow aviators,

"Unfortunately" (cos some of you would disagree) I am not yet a jet skipper, far from that :} but does anyone on here have an insight on the Dash8 ops with Ethiopian? Future plans, will it be the indoc fleet for cadets, T&C days off etc....Would indeed appreciate it:ok:

Have seen a single agency advertising for Q400 Captain positions....any direct hiring via the Airline itself? I suppose they are flying with Bombardier Captains/Contractors on the LHS right now.

Cheers,

luftwaffe

tracker999

4th Jun 2010, 13:28

Any Q400 drivers already been there for interview? Feedback would be much appreciated....especially what kind of sim do they use.

T999

Human Cargo

4th Jun 2010, 15:01

Consider this carefully. Though everyone you will meet at Ethiopian is very nice and coordial. Once your Training begins they will use every means to disrespect, demean you and totally Break you mentally. When you get to the check ride, they will play every dirty trick they can to fail you! And you WILL FAIL the first one! Every expat going thru the training there has! No matter how good or expeienced you are. However once the Line training is done and they let you go "Solo" they'll leave you alone!

captplaystation

4th Jun 2010, 18:55

Interesting :hmm: and for sure good to know beforehand, you paying attention there Turkpilot :eek:

piratepete

5th Jun 2010, 19:12

Human Kargo......Im not sure what you are on about.The training at ET is quite thorough and demanding, that is for certain.When you join your can go through 20 hours of SIM, but it is all standard/normal stuff.Lots of steep turns, stalls etc, and a full-on Addis training exercise.Its a Cat C airport, so it needs to be covered properly.It is 8000 feet asl after all.Lots of terrain too.So what?.....I never found them unreasonable, but they have a right to make sure you can handle their operation safely.Surely you agree.Some cant hack it.It takes up to 3 months to get the hang of all the ins and outs of the flying there.......

Human Cargo

6th Jun 2010, 06:00

Hey Mr. Pet Sir.
As to my posting i would refer you to the Title..
"ETHIOPIAN A REALITY CHECK"

I have no agenda since i am neither employed there nor do i have any plans of going there. However i did have the opportunity to meet some foriegn ET crew in FRR and In ADD within the last few weeks. And they all tell the same dreadful story. ALL the expats captains on the 738 have failed the sim check on the 1st go. And then given and equally hard time on the line training buy younger and less experienced "line Trainers". Its supposed to be line training and introduction to their opperations but its more like Hazing.

Like wise on the 75/76 every Expat Captain has been "harrassed" to the point of total humiliation, buy yelling training Captains who make false accusations for minor differences in interpretations of SOP and aircraft system operations.

One Captain actually cancelled Takeoff clearence and returned to the gate and got off the aircraft! and when the Passengers saw this the wanted to get off too! Because of the Vorracity of the training captains remarks. Unsafe Cockpit...Your Think!!
Mind you these EXpat Captains are retired from other airlines who have flown these types for over 20 years.

So again I say, This is the "ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES reality check"!
If your are going to go there, Please read the find print and ask your self, Are you able to put up with this type of humiliation for Less pay! Or else stay away.

Cheers!
HC.

JTrain

7th Jun 2010, 13:04

piratepete

Ethiopian training
Human Kargo......Im not sure what you are on about.The training at ET is quite thorough and demanding, that is for certain.When you join your can go through 20 hours of SIM, but it is all standard/normal stuff.Lots of steep turns, stalls etc, and a full-on Addis training exercise.Its a Cat C airport, so it needs to be covered properly.

That paragraph says everything I need to know about you.

Yes - Addis is a reasonably busy airport by African standards and has a lot of terrain and density altitude considerations.

BUT compared to the rest of the world - ADD is small-time. If you think Addis is busy or challenging, what do you think of LHR, JNB, DXB, JFK, or HKG.....

'Enuf said.

Turkpilot

7th Jun 2010, 17:39

Thats not true at all...

piratepete

7th Jun 2010, 19:14

JTrain.
It has absolutely nothing to do with how busy it is.This tells me something about YOU.....What ET put new hires through is not overly demanding or out of the ordinary in my opinion.I have never heard the negative feedback regarding training that you refer to from my friends who are working in Ethiopia right now.Quite the opposite in fact.The pass rate is comparable to other employers.If it were my airplane, I would want to ensure my pilots can handle what they will encounter on a daily basis.Pete.

169west

7th Jun 2010, 21:02

... how long is the training and it is all done in Addis? thanks

Bolshevik

20th Jun 2010, 17:49

I second the training question. I have an interview there next weeka and would like any insight into the process.
As far as money, I have been told $6500 per month base, $1800 per diem, $1250 housing, and overtime of about $80 per hour over 80 hours.
They are hiring Dash Cpt according to my agency and are in such a dire need that they are asking them to start immediately after the interview.
I am going for 737 cpt and am hoping for the same.... Need some moolah.

Zimpilot1

22nd Jun 2010, 08:24

@Human Cargo, I totally agree with you. I am not employed by Ethiopian but have lived in Ethiopia for several years. Ethiopians have this belief that they are better than everyone else in this world and that everything that they do, no matter how silly, is better. They are the most hard headed people I have ever met

Captnhappy

23rd Jun 2010, 15:08

HA HA!
:ugh::ugh:
Funny thing though, Two International airlines from East Africa who train at the same facility, with the same Instructors, have the same Controlled Flight in to Terrain accident on the same Type in the Same Weather conditions!!
Makes you wonder sometimes about the true quality of their "instructors"! and what is being taught.

Let them continue to delude themselves about their greatness. Let Boeing continue to provide them with technology that mask's poor & marginal piloting skills and systems understanding. We''ll continue to see alot more of this nonsense!

As for them taking expats, in my opinion this just a cover for them (Ethiopian Airlines) to sidestep culpability for the most recent accident in Beirut.
All you expat going there will subject yourselves to pilot training nightmares never before seen in all your career!

Good Luck All!
Be Happy!
YD

Human Cargo great post!!!!!!!!!!

piratepete

23rd Jun 2010, 21:06

Capt Happy,
You and HC are talking absolute bollocks.Very silly and unproductive staements, just rubbish really.

Human Cargo

24th Jun 2010, 02:19

GoForIt

24th Jun 2010, 10:38

Hey There Mr. li'l pete.
Seems like you work for these big headed fellows in Addis. So your defense is understandable. However from looking at your other statements, i think you might be on CRACK!!
Be happy
YD

This thread has descended to a level of juvenile bickering unworthy of professional aviators. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it would seem like the guy who works there would be the one with reliable information. It would also appear that there are a couple people here who have some very strong negative feelings about EAL even though they don't work there.... the type of strong negative feelings people sometimes develop who have been fired by an employer.

just GoForit

YFlex

24th Jun 2010, 12:06

Well said "GoForIt".......and now back to the thread and the last question:

anyone know
"How long is the training from start to finish" For TypeRated Expat pilots

Anyone?

Flex

Bolshevik

28th Jun 2010, 14:28

Ive just been told by my recruiter that it is 6 weeks. Approx 3 weeks ground and 3 weeks sim/ftd.

169west

28th Jun 2010, 15:18

thanks Bo

may I ask you who is your recruiter? Thanks PM if you want!

YFlex

29th Jun 2010, 14:33

I've been talking directly with ET

Don't know if FCI offers anything more than what the Airline is offering

Flex

169west

29th Jun 2010, 14:44

thanks Flex
I think FCI offer you a good way of collecting information and helps you with visa etc, but I was wondering if if there's someone else out there offering something more! thanks

Bolshevik

27th Jul 2010, 21:48

Yeah, been working with FCI and they suck. Just go to Ethiopians website (google search) and apply with them. Pay will be better (read; on time!) and they will be more flexible with everything. They would much rather you be with them than with any other contracting agency out there. Nice people, but will test you on your patience in the sim.
Good luck and PM for more info.

Bolshevik.

Bolshevik

4th Aug 2010, 21:40

I wanted to post this because of the enormous response of folks to my post about Ethiopian Airlines. Everyone needs, and should have, information about any contract they are about to embark upon. Below are a grouping of questions and answers about this airline and the various contracting agencies involved.
At the risk of sounding absurd, do not use FCI.

And to the gentleman that asked me the questions, please forgive me for using them for general answers as your questions were very good. Also I have done my best to keep you anonymous.
I've been invited for an interview with Ethiopian (Captain B737).

Dare one ask if you have any inside thoughts / views on working for them?
Yes, Ethiopian is an excellent company to work for. They treat you with respect and pay you on time. You will be, however, asked to fly a great deal of time, but will be compensated for it. No one, however will demand that you fly more than you are comfortable with.

Housing info (location / rental costs / running costs / deposits / etc... )?
Generally, guys are sharing accommodations and are paying around $400US or so a month max. More if you want your own place.

Actual monthly salary? Is it taxed locally? How is it paid (direct to on-shore / offshore bank / or in cash) ? Regular payments? In which currency?
737 is paid $6500us a month whilst 767 is $7000 and the DHC8 is $6000us per month. This is paid (if direct, which is preferable) to the bank of your choice on the 11th of the month.

Which routes do the B737 fleet operate?
The B737 flies to the following destinations:
Chad, Nigeria, South Africa (Johannesburg), Egypt, Israel, Lebanon (Beirut), Saudi Arabia (Jeddah), Kenya, Tanzania, as well as a few others I can't remember right now.
What kind of flight-time limitations scheme do they follow (if any)? How many sectors per day Night flights per month? Days off per week / per month?
110 Hours per month (loosely, with your permission). Most sectors are 2-4 per day. Night flights are assigned with respect to rest or request. Days off are per work performed. Mostly, you will get 8-10 per month. Fleets are in desperate need currently and you will be asked to fly all that you can. If you fly overtime, though, you will be compensated duly for it. (Especially if you fly over the National limits)

How many night stops per month and / or do night stops attract any 'duty pay' or is that included as part of the 'per diems' ?
Night stops are non-existent on the 737, 767, and MD-11 fleets. The Q-400 is the only fleet that does any standup overnights. All of your flying is compensated with per diem while you are in country.

How does the 'ground transport' pick-up / drop-off work (and / or are you hanging about waiting for them all the time) ?
You are waiting for them all the time. They have no idea what is going on. You have the choice to wait for them (which is excused) or get a taxi (which is prompt and will charge you about $4US).

How is Internet access in Addis Ababa and / or how fast is it (assuming one can get it)?
It mostly sucks on the weekends, but is decent during the week. Don't expect too much good porn.

In general would you recommend Ethiopian Airlines, or would it be more of a case of "steer well clear" ?
I would definitely recommend them. Honestly, they are a wonderful company. They issue headsets, flight bags, uniforms, computers, heavy jackets, raincoats, and anything you need. They will, however ask you to work as much as you can. Ethiopian scheduling and pilots will treat you with much respect and admiration as long as you adhere to their SOP and requests for protocol. Pay is on time and the people are quite nice.

Thanking you in advance for whatever help & guidance you might be able to offer.
Happy to help. Just don't use FCI for contract. Go direct with the company. Believe me. PM me for more info.

GoForIt

9th Aug 2010, 06:08

How is Internet access in Addis Ababa and / or how fast is it (assuming one can get it)?

It also depends on what part of town you're in. I've got the EVDO wireless, which is the fastest, with speeds up to 700 Kbps. I'm getting close to that most of the time, but in the bole area it was much worse. I'm out in CMC area.

EVDO USB modems cost $150 here ($50 for the same one in China), and there is a $20 set up fee and then about $28 a month for up to 2 GB download. Works good for me. Most of the hotels have wifi for us, so I don't get close to the 2 GB limit.

moondriver

17th Aug 2010, 23:08

AF022

17th Aug 2010, 23:14

BKK is probably your best bet.

DHC6to8

18th Aug 2010, 08:31

Hi guys, a strange question if I may... are you guys who already work at ET wearing a suit for the business travel for the interview? Or did you just dress nice with a good set of slacks, shirt and tie? My last interview in Africa was in a full suit, colonial style and that was in 40 degrees Celcius... almost died of heat stroke and that was 20 years ago!
I know that some old school companies still exist, but I was hoping to get away with a relaxed look while travelling down and back.... what did oyu wear at the interview?
Any and all usefull info appreciated!
Cheers
6to8

G_Orwell

18th Aug 2010, 11:03

... the temperature is around 20 degrees C and less. Most of Ethiopia is on a high altimeter. Addis is approximately at 8000 feet I think. Also bear in mind that now they are in raining season (July- August).

GoForIt

18th Aug 2010, 16:36

Can anyone tell me how easy it is to get into business class between either New York and Addis, or Beijing and Addis or Bangkok and Addis. I'm in Hawaii and exactly halfway around the world, and want to travel the interview via the city I'm most likely to get an upgrade from!
I was booked in Business class for the interview well in advance. No upgrade needed.

Also, is it absolutely necessary to show up in a business suit? We all know how hard the damn things are to carry.
I wore comfortable cloths for the flights to/from ADD

And lastly, do you have to pay Ethiopian taxes, or is the pay only subject to your own country's taxes?
NO. You are paid "off shore" so to speak. The full amount is wired to your account of choice.

GoForIt

18th Aug 2010, 16:38

I know that some old school companies still exist, but I was hoping to get away with a relaxed look while travelling down and back.... what did oyu wear at the interview?

I wore a suit to the interview, and everyone in the group I interviewed with did the same. I wore comfortable cloths for travel.

moondriver

18th Aug 2010, 17:05

So, you had to have a carry on with all your clothes, and then a suit carrier for your suit, and lug that along with you all the way to Ethiopia.

That already sounds like the worst part of the whole interview. I wish they would simply do away with that crap and tell you to show up in nice casual wear.

JoeMcGrath

18th Aug 2010, 17:50

DHC6to8

18th Aug 2010, 21:58

Thanks for the responses guys... appreciate it! I am wondering about how healthy it is to be in Ethiopia? I have heard that some crews on the Dash have to do stand up overnights in the countryside out of ADD... and that is in the menegitis and malaria belt... what are the experiences so far from the guys down there already? We almost lost our child a few years ago due to menegitis... it was really close and I don't want to go through that again given that some people can be a carrier and not affected by it.
What is it like there? How is the hygene in ADD? Are you guys buying bottled water for drinking/teeth brushing etc? Some of these questions sound silly coming from an old African like me, but after going through what we did before I am asking before commiting to anything so any insight appreciated. Thanks.
Cheers
6to8
.... I am not expecting much of reply as most people of the modern age travel first and then ask questions... but for those who are in country please share your experiences and thoughts on the subject!:)

GoForIt

20th Aug 2010, 05:43

Bolshevik or others, can you tell me of the housing and life style outside the airline is like? i.e. house vs. apartment? Housekeepers? etc... Does anyone have there wife or girlfriend with them there? Western style markets and food? Thanks!

Housing. I've been looking for a place recently, and this is what I've found. I found a 1 BR 1BA condo in Gerji that is brand new, unfurnished for 3,000 Birr a month, or about $221. It had two balconies (4th floor) and was quite bright and attractive. You can buy locally made bamboo furniture cheap, but the quality is poor. Anything imported is expensive. Some wood furniture is made locally, but it is still not cheap. I chose not to rent that condo because I didn't like the area -- there are not many of the type of restaurants expats would go to. It is close to the airport, and there is a minibus route that goes close to there, but not many taxis.

If you want to be in the Bole area, which is the area where there are lots of restaurants and coffee shops and stores, it will cost more. This area is also close to the airport. I found a furnished one bedroom guest apartment in a local family's compound for about $420 a month including laundry and maid service (by their maid).

Labor is extremely cheap here. You can hire a maid/housekeeper/cook for $50 a month. Most houses have servants quarters for maids, driver, and security guard.

Some pilots get together and rent one large house, western style and many of them are quite nice. There seems to be a lot available in those higher price ranges. One house I know has 6 guys in it (2 very large master bedrooms, 4 regular size bedrooms plus two very small bedrooms and 4 servants quarters), they have two maids, a security guard, and a driver (with his own car). They each pay about $400 a month. They furnished it themselves.

Lots of guys have local girl friends, but few have brought wives and families here. In fact, I haven't met any yet who have their family here.

No problems when it comes to western style markets and foods, but if the food is imported, it is expensive. Same goes for some toiletry items. However, those of us who do international flying buy stuff on our trips.

GoForIt

20th Aug 2010, 05:48

Thanks for the responses guys... appreciate it! I am wondering about how healthy it is to be in Ethiopia?
Probably not.

I have heard that some crews on the Dash have to do stand up overnights in the countryside out of ADD... and that is in the menegitis and malaria belt... what are the experiences so far from the guys down there already? We almost lost our child a few years ago due to menegitis... it was really close and I don't want to go through that again given that some people can be a carrier and not affected by it.
I know nothing about Dash flying.

What is it like there? How is the hygene in ADD?
The city is filthy. I eat in restaurants a lot, and you can find many with good standards. But there are many places I wouldn't eat.

Are you guys buying bottled water for drinking/teeth brushing etc?
ABSOLUTELY! Bottled water is cheap.

Some of these questions sound silly coming from an old African like me, but after going through what we did before I am asking before commiting to anything so any insight appreciated. Thanks.
Cheers
6to8
.... I am not expecting much of reply as most people of the modern age travel first and then ask questions... but for those who are in country please share your experiences and thoughts on the subject!

Living in a country like this requires a spirit of adventure and a sort of relaxed fearlessness combined with wisdom and prudence. Personally, I'm enjoying it, but I also assume I won't be here long term. Maybe it isn't for you. If you're worried about it, don't come.

moondriver

20th Aug 2010, 21:16

I sent a CV about two weeks ago and Recruiting sent back the specs. I mulled them over, read this thread, and thought it might be better than what I've been doing, although for less money. So I sent an email four or five days ago that I was interested.
There was a visa application yesterday copied to me, and I wrote back that they had put my birthdate down as December 15, 2008, which would certainly make me the youngest pilot on staff.
Today I received my e-booking out of Washington DC on August 28.

One is that I have plans for the Labor Day weekend and two is that the fares, if you can even get a seat (I'm in Hawaii) are astronomical.

Does anyone with experience there think I'll be looked down upon if I ask them top to postpone until mid September? I have never seen any airline move that fast!

I've been working in a place that will make Addis look like London, so I have no issues with the bottled water and filth, but I simply am in the middle of things here and can't really rush off at the drop of a hat.

Or do they consider that an insult?

Advice?

RenoRock

25th Aug 2010, 18:18

When you consider the non-tax income, the housing allowance, and the per diem the pay is not that bad.
To any American expat working overseas, do you have any cpa/money manager that would be familiar with the expat situation that you would recommend?

Bolshevik

25th Aug 2010, 19:02

Housing is so varied. You can spend as much as you want to here, but you have to be careful. The "ferengi" pricing is prevalent and if you are not careful, you will spend double what a property is worth. That being said, the most popular thing to do seems to be to go in with some other guys on a large house. There are mansions here that have 6+ bedrooms as the above poster said, and you should end up paying no more than $500US per month for everything (driver, maids, security, etc). It is really not so bad and your housing allowance should cover that as well as almost all of your monthly expenses. Keep in mind that your housing allowance is paid in local currency with no conversion fees and you may find that you are making out quite well.

Bo

Bolshevik

25th Aug 2010, 19:06

Seriously, they are in such a desperate need for pilots that they will accept you whenever you are available. They will not see it as an insult even if they act so on the phone or email. It would seem that the only thing you could do to put them off would be to fly into the side of a mountain on your sim ride. Even that may be forgivable with a good attitude.

Bo

moondriver

25th Aug 2010, 19:26

Thanks, Bo. I sent an email to all three of them (I have one guy communicating about getting a letter of invitation, one guy who copied me a visa application he had made (with my birthdate December 2008) to which I had to tell him was incorrect (I'd certainly be the youngest pilot on the roster) and another that sent me, out of the blue, a reservation!

Seems grossly disorganized. I didn't hear anything on the forum for several days so went ahead and politely told them I needed several weeks lead time, since I have to buy a ticket from Hawaii to Washington DC, which is where the reservation was from, and last minute fares are equivalent to scalping.

I haven't hear anything back. I just wonder if they are all on the same page there.

timothyrock

30th Aug 2010, 18:24

be aware as there is no time limit as the locals can fly as much hours as they want,like 1500 hrs in a year, and the aviation authorities dont care that much to control,,infact they even allow u at times to avoid flt cancellations,,,,nice plce to hit overtime,,,,:cool:

GoForIt

31st Aug 2010, 18:59

piratepete

6th Sep 2010, 08:40

GOFORIT, your post is very funny.I am sure you work for ET however, what the rules say, and what actually happens are two very different things.My mate there tells me many guys work way outside these numbers.At the end of the day, its up to you, but apparently, you will be asked to work, work work.......regardless of how many hours youve done already.There is no checking of this by anyone.They are so short of crews..........

GoForIt

1st Oct 2010, 09:24

I am interested but not current in the B757. I flew it 15 years ago. I do have other heavy jet (and turboprop time). I would not mind flying the Dash or Fokker. Still wish they had the herc around! So are they only hiring CURRENT AND TYPED???
No. One guy I know was hired recently hadn't flown the B757 in about 8 years. 15 years? Hmmm.... I don't know. Never hurts to shoot them a resume.

I have emailed them on the website.
That is the right place to start.

AlvinZane

5th Oct 2010, 04:42

They are major short of drivers, 737 the worse for shortage. I know they have people watching this post for possible pilot contacts, as well as Aeropro and FCI also.

It's not a bad life, not as glamorous as life in the EU. Bit of roughing it here, but very interesting. Salary is low, so I would guess that may lead to the shortage issue. P/D and housing pay is good, but basic salary is below norm's. Most other carriers are in the e6500 to e8000 range without the extras.

Training can be very good and can be very bad. A couple of chaps here that are into the negative training mode and really are doing a very poor job of enticing candidates to stay. Couple of lads have just walked off just because of them. Also, know of several candidates that have told me they will not come here and put up with the demoralization tactics from these two locals.:ugh:

However, there are a couple of fellows here that are into doing a knock-up job and are a pleasure to work with. Most of the local FO's do a great job even though low time chaps. The ones that get stuck with the bad instructors take a week or two to get there heads focused, then they are great lads to work with.

Right now there are open slots in Indo, China, India, Eroupe, and MENA. As well several others in Africa. So compare the notes and pay...then decide.

Me...I just like the local brew.

GoForIt

5th Oct 2010, 08:09

Agree with AlvinZane. I'm on the 767 and it seems about 80% of our instructors have no idea how to teach. But once you get through the training, the flying is fun. There is a lot of variety on the 767 fleet. We get more experienced F/O's on our fleet, and they are all outstanding in my opinion. I haven't flown with a weak f/o yet. The pay is low, but I recently found out we expats are making more than 2x (close to 3x) what the locals are paid. Despite that, all local pilots are friendly and seem to harbor no hard feelings toward us. That is typical of the Ethiopians. They are just good people. When you live here, you can't help but love these people. But company management doesn't treat them well at all. This company wants to get blood out of turnip.

Living in Addis has its own special challenges. That combined with the low pay and constant changes to my schedule has put me back in the job market. I could put up with the lifestyle here if it weren't for the pitiful pay and crisis scheduling. I predict it will improve over time. It has to, given all the expansion they have planned, but it won't happen until they start canceling more flights for lack of crews. For me, it won't improve soon enough to keep me here.

Puddle

29th Oct 2010, 15:37

Makes you wonder if they are in such a need for pilots (which I've heard from numerous people who work for them) - are they taking foreign pilots who aren't type rated?

I love the culture/food/people there and would love the opportunity to live in Ethiopia but am not currently rated on any of their planes. :ugh:

ObiWon

21st Nov 2010, 09:27

Went there for assessment late last Summer. Same old Third World stuff....paint peeling off the Walls, Water Taps in the Bathroom were partially functional and no hand tissue or towels in the men's room. The hand dryers did not function as well. But my favorite was when I was in the lunch / waiting room for my sim assessment and a local chap offers me a drink of water. I did not notice any water fountain earlier and was somewhat puzzled as to where he was getting the water he had just offered me. Out of curiosity alone I accepted and watched in amazement as he open the second floor window, leaned out and there was a water tap hanging in mid-air that had been attached to the exterior wall, some 12 meters up. Guess it was easier than re-plumbing, but who knows where it came from.

ET appears to have massive growth plans and their in-house academy can not keep up with the growth. So expats are in the plan until they get a check on their growth. Had the opportunity to stay and extra day (at my own expense) and went to the area where many of the expat pilots are. Quite a few stories to be heard, some where obviously lubed-up due to the excessive consumption of the local brew. But all the guys I spoke with were unhappy about the way they are treated and are quite keen on the expat pilot market. Quite a few expats have left, so the salary has been structured so any expat that bails out will forfeit a months pay plus two months overtime pay. More than a few had trouble with collecting the salary deposits and allowances.
All said the training was substandard compared to their previously company and the Airline SOP's are not well presented, as well as a lack of continuity in flowing together conceptually. I had the chance to peruse over them and agreed with their assessment. Appeared to me as pages were missing, but when checking, the page numbers were consecutive.
Their comments on line training were as equally appalling. General lack on communicative skills, bizarre events, and home-made procedures that the line training guy felt was his contribution.

General synopsis I came away with was run away fast, so i did. All in all, an experience to forget. There are far to many other expat gigs out there to stay in ET.

Rubis

5th Dec 2010, 08:01

Et is having a cash flow problem at the moment. Several Pilots are not being paid and/or have had to beg for their payroll. If you come direct and not through an Agency,you will most certainly experience this yourself.

The training program is very difficult, not set up like most modern air carriers. There are a lot of missing items that you will only learn about by asking many questions. The Aircraft are flown with B707 procedures because that's what the Airline started it's training with and it worked well then. More commonly called the "African Way".

If you have no transport experience, you may do well. You will not bring any misconceptions from your former carrier on how to fly in the modern World. More commonly known as the "African Way". Beirut and Comoros---the "African Way".

A rough average for accepted pilots about 15% TO 20% of assessments. For the percent that stay, another 10% will leave or fail the training. B767 has the best record, but the B737 is far behind that. Only two Capt make it through line check since August. Most highly experienced B737 pilots fail.
B 767 guys are primarily Delta guys and they seem to have a click there.

Think hard and do not listen to recruiter. Ask if your rep has ever been to Addis or seen the inside of the training center. It was appropriately described in the prior post.

A tribal mentality exists there and you are not part of the tribe, so one can easily imagine where you line up in the food chain. Addis can be fun, bring plenty of meds and money if you plan to survive. Listen to half of what the recruiter tells you and believe less than a quarter of it.

No, I did not fail the training program. Unfortunately, it was a very expensive experience. Though it does provide a lot entertainment at parties when i play the video where one line training guy is yelling and screaming so hard that he cannot control the drool running down his face. All in All, a life experience. I only hope that for the new guys sake, they have improved over the last year. But seriously doubt it. The "African Way" does not allow for admitting mistakes, only hiding them. Best of luck, lads.

seifly

5th Dec 2010, 09:08

"Et is having a cash flow problem at the moment. Several Pilots are not being paid and/or have had to beg for their payroll. If you come direct and not through an Agency,you will most certainly experience this yourself"

You are the first one to ever say anything about this so called financial problem.For a company that posted close to, if I am not mistaken, 60 million dollar profit and load factor in upwards of 80 85 percent I have a hard time believing that. On the other hand can you please post the video as I myself had gone thru the same ridiculous training mentality and would be fun to see the video.

odericko2000

6th Dec 2010, 07:29

@ Rubis
Comoros was a hijack plane ran out of fuel nothing to do with your so called 'African way' mentality, and ET isn't going through any financial rough patch, actually one of the few airlines that posted a profit.
It's so pathetic when folks like you falsify information to make their story telling juicier coz that's all it is.
By all means criticize but tell the truth and be factual about your accounts, by the way shouting isn't a preserve of ET pilots, done most of my training in the west initial sim at Alteon UK and yes there are just some crazy western pilots as well.
I guess there's no winning with you guys, 'the sand pit isn't for you, unhappy at ET, too much culture issues in Asia .... Jeez.
Please stay at Home

ObiWon

6th Dec 2010, 10:54

It happened from inside the flightdeck, not outside.....who let him in and why. This is very basic here.

The "African Way"? Coincidently, I didn't coin it, the instructors at ET did. it's there favorite excuse for why they deviate from World-Wide accepted, developed, implemented, and used procedures. So take your beef to them BUCKWHEAT.

If you are aware of the training issues and they did indeed originate from a different culture, why do you accept them? If you know they are bad training techniques and are counter productive, along with creating negative training scenarios that "untrain" a pilot and increase training expenses, then why adopt them and coin phony excuses?

The Boeing guys there are at a loss when the new planes are flown with 707 techniques. I was brought in because of my prior training experience and past work in human-factors incident recreations.

EVERY training concept that the new World has adopted, these guys throw aside. THEIR excuse "it is the African Way", as an explanation for their incredulous and non-ethical training procedures is a black eye to other developed African Airlines.

BUT, the really, really big one is the yelling and screaming. Are they trying to impress a point, cover up their lack of training experience, or have no basic concept of institutional documented, educational techniques? With the exception of a few, almost everything I saw from the training standpoint was something Training departments evolved from many years ago.

If your upset about the analogy, then creditability resolve it. Maybe your the one that needs to reallocate the concept of the "African Way"

Incidently, I am of African heritage. I just don't feel that ignorance and blatant disregard is an acceptable excuse for complacent training, obviously your able to accept it though. What a sad situation!

ObiWon

6th Dec 2010, 10:57

Cash flow.....their excuse not mine. From the admin side, not me.

odericko2000

6th Dec 2010, 16:54

Really? The pilots let them in? I guess we should lay the sept 11 disaster squarely on the pilots for letting terrorists into the cockpit mmmh:ugh:
You know as well as I do pre sept 11 attack cockpit door procedures were quite different, interesting how self righteous safety crusaders on these threads always have a biased view when it suits them.
Aviation here is far from perfect no one is denying the standard difference to the western or developed world per say is glaring, just the hypocrisy and stereotyped mentality when discussing issues pertaining to other parts of the world that ain't western is what is disturbing, most of it isn't criticism that is constructive more often than not just a bunch of Egoistic individuals trying to feed their superiority complexes.

MAKOLO

6th Dec 2010, 18:07

Comoros was not a hijack story.I was on the beach of the Galawa beach hotel,I saw the ditching, I contributed to the rescue of some of the 52 survivors.I can tell you that 9 Mossad people were on board this plane.this is a much more complicated story than a "simple" hijack...

odericko2000

6th Dec 2010, 19:36

@Makolo
The ditching was due to the fact that they had run out of fuel when the terrorists commandeered the aircraft 20min into the flight from it's intended stop which was Nairobi Jomo, and insisted they take them to Australia yet there wasn't enough fuel on board, the captains plea to at least make a refuelling stop fell on deaf ears, as they(the terrorists) had read on the inflight magazine that the 767 was able to fly 11 hours non stop and weren't convinced that there wasn't enough fuel.

GoForIt

7th Dec 2010, 05:36

Et is having a cash flow problem at the moment. Several Pilots are not being paid and/or have had to beg for their payroll. If you come direct and not through an Agency,you will most certainly experience this yourself.

There were some paycheck delays for the August through October period. Those were from 2 to 5 days delayed I think. It seemed to be some incompetence in the payroll department rather than a cash flow problem. They waited until the day it was due to send it, and then it was delayed due to a holiday or weekend. Some guys threatened to quit flying until paid and had a deposit in their account within hours. November paycheck was on time to the day. I don't think anyone every worried about whether they would get paid or not, but some guys who are in a tight corner financially were indeed hard pressed by the company's blatant violation of the contract.

MAKOLO

7th Dec 2010, 13:25

the scenario you are talking about is the official one.
even the most stupid terrorist is able to understand that a plane is just like a car : if the owner's manual indicates a 500 miles range, this is with a full tank.
a few hours after the crash,a CIA and FBI team coming from a nearby african country(may be Kenya ?) arrived and took the recorders from the tail of the plane.
as an aviation professionnal witness,I was welcomed by the Ethiopian Caa inquiry team
staying in same hotel .then after a few days ,this team was totally avoiding me.
so far ,i am not able to find any thoroughout enquiry about this event.

B. Bonga

8th Dec 2010, 04:37

Makolo, you sound like a pimple faced teenager seating behind a computer and trying to cure your hormonal imbalance by talking k@k on a public forum. Read what you just posted to yourself loudly whilst standing in front of a mirror and see if it makes sense:rolleyes: What hogwash:ugh: you want to run with that fib and expect people to fall for it. It's people like you that ruin Pprune with your conspiracy theories.

MAKOLO

11th Dec 2010, 11:18

about Comoros accident:
-both flight crew survived.
-some high quality amateur pictures are available.
-recorders are available.
and no detailed report ,including detailed cvr transcriptions is available so far,or maybe I missed something.
try to answer my question ,before being arrogant and irrespectful

VaniosLenos

14th Dec 2010, 11:01

anyone on more info about ET? Is skype working in some way? Does the 737 roster get block days off every six weeks? Info will be much appreciated since I will be applying soon to them.. PM me or share... thanks

GoForIt

3rd Jan 2011, 13:36

Pilot inexperience, exhaustion behind ET409 crash, report
JANUARY 3, 2011 ⋅ 5:26 AM ⋅ POST A COMMENT
FILED UNDER ET409 CRASH, ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES, LEBANON

On the eve of the anniversary of the crash in Lebanon of Ethiopian airlines flight ET409, LBC TV reported that the investigation of the incident continues and is being handled by the manufacturer with the participation of Ethiopia and Lebanon.

The Boeing 737 crashed on January 25, 2010 just after taking off from Beirut international airport . All 90 people on board died as a result of the crash.

According to LBC sources the investigation so far revealed that the crash occurred because of poor judgment by the Ethiopian Airlines management in choosing the crew, especially since the the captain and his copilot ,were exhausted as a result of working more than a hundred flight hours during that month, while according to international regulations they should not be working more than sixty flight hours.

Furthermore the captain and his copilot did not have enough experience in flying such a plane . According to the investigation 1500 flying hours are required to fly the 737 while neither the captain nor the copilot had more than 200 hours of experience.

The investigation so far confirms the preliminary report of May 2010 which revealed that “both the pilot’s and co-pilot’s inexperience with the jet was “certainly behind the accident”.

According to LBC sources the committee in charge of the investigation is planning to meet in the Ethiopian capital Addis Ababa on January 24 to start drafting the reported which is expected to take about 3 month to be completed
Pilot inexperience, exhaustion behind ET409 crash, report | Ya Libnan | World News Live from Lebanon (http://www.yalibnan.com/2011/01/03/pilot-inexperience-exhaustion-behind-et409-crash-report/)

moondriver

4th Jan 2011, 23:45

I've been looking for a job as a 737NG captain and just got this information from an agency about Ethiopian:
__________________________________
Contracted schedule is for 80 hours however all crews are required to fly to a maximum of 110 hours monthly. Equipment Rates for Captains listed below: (overtime to 110 hours must be added at 1/80th of the base pay for 80 hours to calculate the normal monthly total pay. PAY IS IN USD.
All pay rates under continuing review
MD-11 7000 USD for 80hrs plus 30 hours OT = 9625 USD total
B757/ 767 7000 USD for 80hrs plus 30 hours OT = 9625 USD total
B737-800 6500 USD 80hrs plus 30 hours overtime = 8937.50 USD total
Q400 6000 USD for 80hrs plus 30 hours overtime = 8250 USD total
_____________________________________

So I'm just asking if anyone has been working there and can confirm this about flying 110 hours per month. I'm not posting this to criticize in any way, but I've personally never flown 110 hours in a month, or even 100, or even 90 hours in a month. I've been a commercial airline pilot for 26 years and the most I've ever flown in any given month was 89 hours. I found it to be a pretty exhausting experience. So unless this schedule is somehow set up so that you can fly all five hour legs and do minimum turns that's going to be a very heavy schedule. The typical 737-800 flight is a one hour to four hour segment. We used to fly it on 5 hour legs but that was all we did in one day, then it was followed by a day off, and then another 5 hour return leg. Probably why the company went bankrupt :ok:, but seriously I would think in the world of long haul it would be imaginable to fly 100 hours, but in the 737 world it sounds like it could be pretty miserable.
Can anyone comment or share their 737 experiences at Ethiopian?

vagabond 47

5th Jan 2011, 08:54

Be under 45 and with fitness matching.............falling off perches is normal

Rubis

12th Feb 2011, 08:30

If you have never evolved in a tribal environment, it will be very difficult for you. The locals payscale is very low compared to expat. So consequently the expat failure is high and surprisingly...the locals get a pay raise.

Many expats just get fed up and leave, many being owed salary. Since AUG 2010, the retention rate for expat 73 drivers has been very low. The training is very different and you need to dig up much of the procedural info yourself. At times it seems as if they are culling out trainees by seeing if the can figure it out without assistance. Very often your sim partner will not have previous jet experience and you will have to fly him as well as the aircraft. Sometimes you are not told of this and have to figure it out yourself.

You are never "one of the guys", as you have not gone through their academy and thhis makes you inferior. It's a temp or time building job. Don't think you'll last it out for a year or two unless you go on the 67 or MD.

Very, very sad because it can be an enjoyable locale. You're just not wanted there.

bartbaxter

29th Jul 2011, 12:19

I worked for Jet Airways for a while, so I have a little knowledge of the overseas industry. As a retired Alaska pilot, India and Ethiopia are two fairly well established companies that pay industry standard. I joined Ethiopian in April. A sim assessment and thorough physical, combined with a very relaxed interview are followed by a very well organized administrative process. Two nights in a one star hotel, hired, and then taken to Harmony Hotel in Addis, a three star hotel in Europe, if you know what I mean, with a very friendly and helpful staff. Other guys move out after the first month to share houses. I like hotels within walking distance of shopping.
Training was almost exactly like India, primary emphasis on 'the briefing.' It's assumed young, inexperienced F/Os are better off with a fifteen minute briefing than a five minute briefing. Training Captains treat a 61 year old pilot with 38 years flying as if he's never been in an airplane before. Again, just like India. But a smile and a nod and an effort still go a long way to get through the program. Fill out all the pages in the training folder and you'll be done. Proviso: Three 737 guys started with me, and those three have all been sent home. I suspect they fudged their credentials, but have no way of knowing.
New program for Ethiopian is now twenty days on, ten days off. A lot of Atlanta guys are not happy, but maybe it works for you if you just want to see the world on your days off. If you must go home to see the kids and mama, this might not be the right job. Also just heard new policy might be changing to NO pay for training. I'm told they have plenty of applicants and they're tired of guys coming over, getting a PC, and going home. Could be lots of reasons.
All in all, not the most pleasant experience I've had, but I've certainly seen a lot of Africa that I've never seen before. Any other questions, you can write me directly at [email protected].