SLS to be paid back in March

[Toe Knee Tiler]

Heard this directly from 3rd Floor.

[Echo-Charlie]

I heard it would be paid on April 1st.

[AAIGUY]

Actually, it's been heard from Lvl 2 of KA for about 3-4 weeks as well.. Big profit announcement with year end statement and return of SLS...

we'll see....

[12wheeler]

I heard it would be paid on April 1st.

With a pre-condition that you sign for RA 85 first

[Forward CofG]

If it is repaid, I bet it will be as a ex-gratia payment. Then it is not provident fundable and we get screwed for helping them out.:mad::yuk:

[broadband circuit]

What about the FOs & SOs who elected the option to take COS 08 in lieu of SLS? What will their repayment be?

NOTE: This is not meant to be a debate about whether those guys did the right thing or not, simply a question of what their reward for helping out will be.

[Forward CofG]

broadband circuit

What about the FOs & SOs who elected the option to take COS 08 in lieu of SLS? What will their repayment be?

Those who chose COS 08 elected for 65 retirement instead of paying 2-3 weeks of salary.

Why would they get anything at all?

[BlueEng]

Hey Fwd cofg, what an unbelievable statement....rumours of paying back money you agreed to give up, yet you still spin it to sound like you are getting screwed. How can someone giving you money be screwing you??
I hope your views are supported by the minority
:ugh:

[water check]

It's very simple: if CX have returned to a comfortable level of profitability, and they return the SLS, then they have acted honourably and I will acknowledge them for that. If the above mentioned economic situation is in place and they do not return the SLS, they will have not acted honourably, and any future request for such assistance will elicit the obvious response.

There has to be an accepted level of behaviour between the employer and the employed. Cathay needs to do the right thing when the circumstances warrant. We shall see....

[Humber10]

The spin will be; sign COS08 and you can have your SLS in return. :}

[Sqwak7700]

I already got my SLS back when I decided NOT TO ACCEPT IT. :ugh:

If you are so hard up for it, why did you take it? :rolleyes:

And if they do report a profit, it would be pretty lame if they don't pay out a full 13th month plus bonus by using the excuse that they "payed back" concessions that were given by the employee group.

They better start spending that money before they have to report profits. Look for really big expenses that don't make any sense... :rolleyes:

[water check]

Sqwak, good for you... You have nothing to worry about then do you? You made a choice, I made a choice...the company will make theirs. The template was made obvious after the SARS pay cut. I decided to sign onto SLS because on balance I felt it was important to be seen to join other staff in demonstrating support for the company during a difficult time. I wasn't expecting anything back....UNLESS the company returned to reasonable health. If that is the case, then the company should honour their obligations. If you didn't contribute...THEN WHAT BUSINESS IS IT OF YOURS TO EVEN COMMENT..? :mad:

ps. whats 'payed'...?

[Steve the Pirate]

Hey Sqwak

If they do pay SLS back then those that did sign up will have had up to 4 weeks leave for free. What did you get?

STP

[Flap10]

Water check,

they will have not acted honourably, and any future request for such assistance will elicit the obvious response.Cathay needs to do the right thing when the circumstances warrant
Exactly how long have you been at Cathay??????

I decided to sign onto SLS because on balance I felt it was important to be seen to join other staff in demonstrating support for the company during a difficult time.You are either naive beyond belief, or a complete Bulll Sh!tter.

Steve the Pirate,

What we got is integrity,,, you can have your four weeks! :yuk::yuk:

[fly123456]

Well, if nobody had signed for SLS, we would have worked less anyway... on some fleet anyway. 10% overcrew this year, a bit more last year probably.

The nice thing was being able to get our leave in one block. Bad thing of course was the paycut.

I always wanted the AoA to negociate a kind of "loan" to the company.
Meaning endorsing the SLS deal only if we get the assurance it would eventually be paid back.

Now if squak didn't sign for it, fair enough, he's got his reason.
I didn't want to sign for it (difficult financial year,...), but I honestly did by fear of being singled out as being one of the few not taking it.
I hope for him he got away with a lot more money due to overtime... or as much time off as we had.
But please, squak, don't complain if we get back what we didn't really enjoy giving up to the company.

Now, only after SLS has been paid back, it would be time to ask for a full 13th month, profit share, etc...

[Captain Dart]

My bet is the company will have to keep the SLS money to pay its various legal bills.

[Steve the Pirate]

Flap 10

One can also speak of "integrity" outside of its prescriptive meaning in reference to a person or group of people of which one subjectively approves or disapproves. Thus one can describe a favored person as "having integrity" while describing an enemy as "completely lacking in integrity". Such labeling, in the absence of measures of independent testing, renders the accusation itself baseless and (ironically) others may call the integrity of the assertion into question.STP

[Flap10]

Steve the Pirate

Those who lack the courage will always find a philosophy to justify it.

Flap10

[Liam Gallagher]

"The template was made obvious after the SARS pay cut"

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't recall a "pay cut" resultant of SARS. I do recall a "voluntary" unpaid leave scheme. However, that scheme was predicated on the basis that the company would pay the lost salary back as and when they could. No such undertaking was given for SLS. I'm not sure I would call that a "template".

Fly123456...... I guess you are based then.....

[fly123456]

Liam,

Well I actually am.

Would it ease you if I phrased it that way:

Give us back two weeks of SLS money, then complete the 13th month, then the rest of SLS money, then the profit share?

But provided (almost) everybody gave up 3 or 4 weeks salary, and every HK based crew already received half a 13th month:
If the company has to choose between paying a full 13th month or repaying the SLS money, we are better off getting SLS money, aren't we?

Of course I would like to see the company paying everything, and much more!

[Forward CofG]

How can someone giving you money be screwing you??

Since when would Cathay repaying the interest free money that they took off their employees, under duress, be called free money????

The owners of this company did not paid any cash towards the shortfall of operating profit during the GFC.

It was the employees that sacrificed cash, after veiled threats and intimidation made by management!!!!!!!!!

If there is a repayment of SLS (which I doubt will happen), minus any provident fundable parts, as an gratia-payment. Then I will have given up more money than most staff did in SLS.

BlueEng, you may be happy to bend over for management, but I am not.

Unbelievable

[Steve the Pirate]

Flap10

Ahh, good old Camus. But to quote him again:

Martyrs, my friend, have to choose between being forgotten, mocked or used. As for being understood - never.and:

Every revolutionary ends up either by becoming an oppressor or a hereticPersonally, I prefer Immanuel Kant - he was a real pissant who was very rarely stable.

STP

[Liam Gallagher]

It's all perception and no doubt falls on partisan lines.

Big generalization, but most HK based crew consider that they are paid 13 months of salary for 12 months work; as is (was) the way of HK. They consider the non-payment of 13th month as an 8.3% enforced pay-cut.. pure and simple.

In the UK, Europe, US etc you are paid 52 weeks, 26 fortnights or 12 months salary for 1 years work; that is the way of such countries. At the risk of confusing you, the parallel situation would be that you "volunteered" SLS and then didn't receive your December salary because the company had an unsatisfactory year and then the HK staff suggested that everyone be repaid SLS and you will get your December salary if there is some money left in the pot.... would you be a bit erked?

As an aside, those FO's on B scale based in the UK, or on a salary expressed as percentage of B Scale UK FO, had their salary scale grossed up in 1999 to include 13th month. So if you are on such a payscale, then you effectively receive 13th month (or a large %) every year....... make you feel better?

I have no idea what the should or will do? If they feel motivated to do anything (which I doubt), I imagine they will do an ex-gratia payment of $HK30,000 or repayment of SLS, whichever is the lesser. That will keep the majority happy and provide best bang4bucks.....

[hongkongpilot]

I have no idea what the should or will do? If they feel motivated to do anything (which I doubt), I imagine they will do an ex-gratia payment of $HK30,000 or repayment of SLS, whichever is the lesser. That will keep the majority happy and provide best bang4bucks.....

I suspect that they will pay the staff according to profit sharing scheme if there is any profit so that the cockpit crew will be screwed again.:ugh:

[Exiled Aviator]

Any extra money would be gratefully received at this stage Its been a tough year, especially if you UK based and have always lived in the Euro zone!

[Humber10]

If there is any cash left over, management have proven their worth through this tough period with stellar fuel hedging etc and should pat themselves on the back and give themselves a nice big bonus! :}

[Oval3Holer]

ForwardCofG,

No deduction was made from the provident fund payment. Each month you received full provident fund contribution as if there had been no SLS deduction.

Chill...

[Sqwak7700]

Hey Sqwak

If they do pay SLS back then those that did sign up will have had up to 4 weeks leave for free. What did you get?

STP

... how about my integrity and a decent amount of overtime. Good enough for you? :ugh:

Grow a sack and stop working for free, you are cheapening our profession. :yuk:

[Steve the Pirate]

Hi Sqwak

I assume you mean you kept your integrity which is good. A fair amount of overtime is also good - well done. Personally, I too love working 6 days straight followed by a day off and then another 6 days before I can spend some quality time with my family telling them how much EFP I've earned while the collaborators are on the beach...

However, how you can possibly infer from my question that I work for free is completely beyond me. In fact, how you can infer that I took SLS is also beyond me. I suppose had I phrased my question: "Hey Sqwak, blah, blah, blah. What did WE get?" you would have assumed that I was indeed a brother-in-arms and that my sack is as big as yours.

Defiance takes many forms and the one that you choose might not necessarily suit another so peace out brother (or sister, as I certainly don't want to be accused of making a sexist assumption if indeed you don't have a sack).

STP

[AAIGUY]

Took SLS happily.

Spent 3 weeks on the beach and at Disney in FL, US with my kids.

had a ball, and it was priceless.

If we get it some of it back, great. If not, I'd do it again for the time.. KA isn't CX.. there's no big blocks of leave . If I get 3 G's in a row I'm excited.

If you didn't take it, bully on you.. I'll have yours thanks.. cause my kids will always remember the time we had, and so will I.

I work to provide a life and a future for my family.. balance.

[Sqwak7700]

Well, I guess I see your points. I never really considered that someone would take SLS purely for the fact that they wanted time off. I thought about taking some for that same reason, but unlike Dragonair, Cathay made no guarantee that I could take all the weeks together.

They told me that they would make an "effort" to give it in 1 week blocks. Effort of 1 week blocks was just not good enough for me and I looked at it as an opportunity for Cathay to work-stack my roster. This, to me, made SLS look more like a pay-cut rather than unpaid leave from work.

But I'll give you that if you got the long block of time off with the family all at once, I do agree, that would be worth doing and I would not mind if they did not pay me back for it. :ok:

[old rope]

Err, excuse me for intruding in your entertaining tête à tête. Dragonair were NOT given ANY promises about blocks of SLS. It was clearly stated to us that they would make every attempt lah, but no commmitments could be made.

In my case, I was assigned two 2 week blocks (which have not yet been taken)

Back to round 4, or is it 5? :ok:

[simplex]

Why would anyone take SLS in the first place? But more to the point, for those who took it, why would the company return the money without getting the leave back?

[hongkongfooey]

Flap 10 and Sqawk...................:ok:

[Air Profit]

I think most of you miss the salient point in this issue: if those of us who chose not to co-operate with SLS are proven to have been the 'smart' ones, then any future request from the company for another SLS type scheme would be met with far fewer participants. For the company to have an effective method of attaining the help of it's employees, they must be seen to be 'fair' in recompensing the employees when the situation turns for the better. That is the reason the company will refund most if not all of the money in question.

[Flap10]

If 6 weeks of annual leave isn't enough to have a quality vacation with your family, then perhaps a change in carreer is overdue.

If the solution to poor rostering is through SLS, what hope do we have of ever improving our rosters.

If the majority of the aircrew accept SLS, and take repeated paycuts, what hope do we have of ever improving our salaries.

AAIGUY,

You bitch about salaries in previous posts and forums and yet you state here that you'll happily take SLS again. Well you've sent a clear message to management if you are willing to continually part with your money...you're simply overpaid!!

Interestingly enough when the unpaid leave scheme was started, a scheme were the terms were more favorable, only a very low percentage of aircrew opted for it. Quality time with family didn't seem to be an issue then. When the company forced SLS upon the aircrew with veiled threats, 97% signed up....you draw your own conclusions.

[Five Green]

There may be some legal issues. The 13th month is a contractual payment. SLS re-payment is not. Thirteenth month can only be withheld if profit thresholds are not met. If it turns out that those profit thresholds were met, and 13th month was witheld then it is a serious breach of our COS. One that has much more serious consequences for those of us in Hong Kong. IMHO it is more of a long term worry than whether or not we get SLS back.

SLS may not be given back and there is no contractual or legal reason to force the co. to do otherwise. Hopefully SLS was a one off and is not going to be used anytime soon. The company was very quick to deduct pay from us in a down economy and they are very slow to give profit share in years of record profit.

For those on a base that took SLS, SLS re-payment first is clearly better, however if you look at it from a business point of view, you made a deal and got what was on offer, with no guarentees. 13th month is part of Hong Kong Crew's contract and if it is not paid back the Hong Kong crew have a right to challenge that in court.

In an ideal world remainder of 13th month paid in full first and then SLS repaid.

Of course profitability would have to be above the savings made through SLS !!

[Air Profit]

Actually no. The 13th month is paid solely at the company's discretion. It is also paid in December. If the company 'subsequently' (ie: after December) decide that revenues/profits are recovering to a suitable level, the company can make any decision in respect of SLS/Profit sharing they wish. The decision on 13th month has come and gone. SLS however was an 'emergency' measure that would obviously be revisited when the company's finances had recovered. SARS was a similar situation. As I mentioned earlier, the company would want to reserve the opportunity to launch similar schemes in the future if needed. If they are not seen to 'play fair' after the fact, they would have an impossible task in convincing employees to partake. Furthermore, to not refund a substantial portion of it would demonstrate that the 'dissidents' were right NOT to participate...and i'm sure that isn't the message that CX mgmt would want to be learned....:=

[Ex Cathedra]

They'll either pay SLS or profit share... I'm not counting on both.

And if they only pay profit share then they'll have managed to make eternally disgruntled employees out of the SLS crowd. But then it sounds just like something they would do...

[Hoofharted]

SLS = Paycut :confused: Work x number of weeks less and get paid for x number of weeks less. That is not a paycut.

If you actually worked for x number of weeks and did not get paid for x number of weeks then that would be a paycut.

Flap 10, your pomposity is staggering. 6 weeks with my kids is nowhere near enough. I would spend 52 weeks of the year with them if I could. I guess it's your business if you value money/work ahead of your loved ones. I'm sure that when your time comes and you are lying on your deathbed that you will be wishing "gee, I wish I spent more time at work" :ok:

The added time with my kids and outa H.K. has enriched all our lives immensely. If SLS is repaid that is a bonus, if not then c'est la vie and I have wonderful memories that will sustain me when my turn comes :)

[fly123456]

From my perspective:

550h a year (as we were 10% overcrewed) distributed between 46 weeks.
Or 550h distributed between 43 weeks.

Still equals 550h a year

Thus taking SLS is a paycut, given not taking SLS, you would have worked just the same.
You just get your G's in one or two long blocks.

[Hoofharted]

That would be true if roster stacking occurred, however lucky old me has never worked less in his life.

Anyway each to his own, I don't regret it at all and neither have my loved ones.

[AAIGUY]

Flap10
AAIGUY,

You bitch about salaries in previous posts and forums and yet you state here that you'll happily take SLS again.....

Have I? Quick review of my posts on PPRUNE and I can't seem to see where I bitch about my KA pay packet.. I think it's for the most part an excellent contract. I'm keen to see how it is cut in the coming years... but as of now, it fits the bill nicely. Sure there is room for some very common sense improvements, but that will need to be negotiated. I think any A or B scaler would have a hard time justifying they need more salary. The money is good. The healthcare, MPF, and other indirect items are what needs to be sorted equitably.

Interestingly enough when the unpaid leave scheme was started, a scheme were the terms were more favorable, only a very low percentage of aircrew opted for it. Quality time with family didn't seem to be an issue then. When the company forced SLS upon the aircrew with veiled threats, 97% signed up....you draw your own conclusions

So I guess it would surprise you to learn that I took 15 days UPL first..
then when SLS was offered I topped up my quota with another 6 days of SLS..

And it would further surprise you to learn I've taken UPL in 2010 to the tune of 3 weeks to have the time when my wife gives birth this summer.

All very nice for you to throw stones at glass houses, but I'm the guy on the DPA site advocating change. Real change.
I'm also the guy who DOES balance his life and is grateful for what he has..

[AAIGUY]

Trevfly.. you got it.. I gave them from Oct to Feb to sort it, now I have to look out for number 1 & the wife & the unborn child.

If you'd do any different, then you sir are a moron. DPA had their chance..

[Steve the Pirate]

Flap10

If 6 weeks of annual leave isn't enough to have a quality vacation with your family, then perhaps a change in carreer is overdue.I guess you mean like a school teacher who always gets allocated leave when the kids are on holiday?

If the solution to poor rostering is through SLS, what hope do we have of ever improving our rosters.Sorry, I don't see your point.

If the majority of the aircrew accept SLS, and take repeated paycuts, what hope do we have of ever improving our salaries.I agree with the question but I don't see that SLS and pay cuts are connected in the context of the point.

In my time I've only seen SLS used twice, both times in challenging situations. They paid back the cash after SARS and, if this rumour is to be believed, they'll pay it back this time as well - we'll obviously have to wait and see.

STP

[Flap10]

In my time I've only seen SLS used twice, both times in challenging situations.

You call 80-90% load factors a challenging situation???? So I guess the propaganda and scare tactics do work on some people. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Keep the employees in fear of their job, they will obey to any demand!!!

[Steve the Pirate]

Flap10

I can only assume you weren't around during SARS as the load factors were virtually non-existent for a while. This time's not been as bad, I'll grant you that, but there was no way of knowing how things were going to pan out. Not only that, load factor doesn't always equate to profit but I hope, like everyone else, it does so that those who took SLS might get something back.

Now (and I hate to pin you down) back to the rostering question. What exactly did you mean when you said:

If the solution to poor rostering is through SLS, what hope do we have of ever improving our rosters.
I'm not trying to be obtuse but I simply don't understand the point you're making.

STP

[Flap10]

STP

Personally, I too love working 6 days straight followed by a day off and then another 6 days before I can spend some quality time with my family telling them how much EFP I've earned

If I get 3 G's in a row I'm excited.

The above was made in reference to the reasons why SLS was partly justified by you and AAIGUY on this thread. There is no denying that rostering has become sh!t over the years, but by giving away part of your salary to have a one off quality time with your family is not the answer, and certainly undermines the fight for better rosters.

I can only assume you weren't around during SARS as the load factors were virtually non-existent for a while.


Actually been around for a while now, maybe too long....Yes we all saw the impact SARS had on loads and things did look pretty bleak for a while, but this time was completely different.

but there was no way of knowing how things were going to pan out.

Actually management knew exactly how things were going to pan out, hence the initial deadline to sign for SLS was a mere two weeks after it was announced. They certainly didn't want you to know how it was panning out, instead they preferred to ride on the wave of bad economical info that was streaming out from the media to keep the employees scared. Fuel prices too high....Fuel prices too low....low yields...blah blah blah. You didn't have to be a genius to see that things were okay. Yes load factors don't equate to huge profits, but at the same time it doesn't mean that we are about to go out of business.

Guess what..it is okay for one year not to surpass last year's results....so we broke even this year, or perhaps made a slight loss for once in 60 years, big deal!

Asking employees to take pay cuts should be the last resort, not a resort to try and embellish the 'year end result' on our backs so that management can get bigger bonuses.

[Tornado Ali]

Flap 10. Could not have put it better... I particularly agree with your comments in the last sentence. The company has an obligation to it's employees to not use them for 'window dressing'. Now that the numbers are on their way back up to a respectable level, the company is obligated to return the SLS. If not, then it will not take a rocket scientist to predict the acceptance rate if such a move is ever contemplated in the future.

[Ex Cathedra]

You call 80-90% load factors a challenging situation


But that's because they were giving the tickets away for free...

And don't forget the 'never-to-be-realized' fuel hedging loss they threw at our faces, or the layoff threats.

:hmm:

[Lowkoon]

Aiguy, how do you know the delay was caused by the DPA and not the companies lack of communication? The reality was that the delay was caused in part by all the 'white ants' that were talking with the company behind the unions back. Potentially you have identified yourself as one of them?

I would quite readily support a motion to expel those members that took UPL selfishly prior to the union directive for their own selfish gain at the detriment of other members who followed the directive to wait until a clear position was reached. But hey, never let the common good and a united front get in the way of self interest right? :hmm:

Ex com member or not, if your actions disadvantage other members either their lifestyle or their pay packet, then be prepared for the consequences. To those of you who negotiated around the com, and dealt directly with the company behind the unions back severely undermined the coms ability to negotiate, whichever way you look at it. If we can't present a united front on areas that directly affect our cos, then what hope do we have in a genuine dispute scenario?

Another dispute springs to mind where the excuse was... "but my wife and kids..." (obviously the chance to be home for the birth of your child is an obvious exceptional case,wish you all the luck and good fortune for that), but for those individuals who did it just to get time off is just another glaring example of self interest being used as an excuse to fu#k over your mates, but of course those that did it wont choose to see it that way. Level 2 thank you all for doing it to your mates, the DPA should expel you for it. There is no place for those individuals in a team, their actions have proven it.

The selfish actions of a few individuals directly cost us all a chance at sharing in the possibility of the leave being fairly and equitably distributed, whichever way you look at it. Anecdotally, we missed out on 20% pay over the sls period because of these selfish clowns. They cost us a lot of money. Again, never let fairness get in the way of self interest right lads? Enjoy your UPL. :mad:

edited for glammar and sperring.

[Blown Seal]

I do not work for CX or KA, however I am curious about something, (not inferring anything about the issues being debated), if one had bought CX shares (which if my memory serves me correctly is what the company did with your money) with the money you gave back through SLS at the time the scheme was proposed and were to now sell those shares, how much money would you have made?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can work it out.

[Steve the Pirate]

Flap10

OK, I get your point about poor rostering leading to people deciding to take SLS to get time with their families and it's a fair point. Of course, there's no way of knowing what percentage of those that took SLS did so for that reason.

I wish I had your certainty with respect to how this latest financial crisis is going to turn out but if you prescribe to monster330's point of view we're not out of the woods yet. I concede that load factors have increased and that the future looks reasonably bright at the moment. If you know how things are going to pan out in the next year or so, are you buying shares? (that's a serious question by the way).

Back to the thread. If the company turns a significant profit and those who took SLS get their cash back, great. If they don't (get their cash back) then this would be the last time such a scheme could be used as all staff groups would become increasingly cynical of any "cry wolf" tactics (if they're not already).

STP

[AAIGUY]

Lowkoon,

Have you read the DPA rule book.. You're not required to follow the suggestion of the DPA as a member.. good luck with your vote..

If you honestly think ANYthing is going to be accomplished with the current comm..you're as insane as you'd be if you think your wife be 'ok' with you going to work whislt she is having a baby.

Your motives are selfish and if you really believed the Assoc. was capable of change, you would have already stood up to lead the charge instead of beak off here about how superior you are.

I'll enjoy the UPL.. I'll enjoy the sh*t out of it.

[bellcrank88]

So is the rumor about repaying SLS good or what? Or is this whole thread another wind up? Enough of the endless drivel thanks.

And by the way, how can I block out this annoying Booyah ******?

[Lowkoon]

AAIguy, I support the current com, so I am not the one who should be trying to change anything, time to vote, put your hand up. A platform of "ME FIRST, and bugger the rest of you!" should be quite a novel campaign!

Your comments on my insanity reflect more on your comprehension of what I wrote than on my state of mind. I still wish you well for the birth of your child.

If by "beaking off" you mean that I pointed out that selfish pratts undermining the negotiation position of the DPA was irresponsible, self serving and detrimental to the remaining pilot body, then I stand accused.

I did of course mention that those responsible for it wouldn't see it that way.

[Hoofharted]

Why then Trev do you belong to the DPA? Insurance, friend to hold your hand if the sh1t hits the fan? Legal representation?

If that is your attitude why don't you save yourself the money and quit the DPA all together? Not a suggestion, just that I don't understand why you would join the association and then tell them to get fvcked when the committees position doesn't suit you. :confused:

[Lowkoon]

Hoof, I think trev was using his powers for good not evil this time. He was pointing out that selfish others were ignoring DPA advice to suit themselves and circumvent and undermine the negotiation process. Subsequently, they were then being surprised at the DPA's inability to get something done after undermining them, and the position of the majority.

Defending trev. A pprune first!

[Coastrider26]

Rumor has it SLS will be paid vack in the week of April:E:E

[Ex Cathedra]

I still can't believe that for a cynic I was so benevolent and naive.


Take it as a card in your hand.

Next time they ask for a favor you have a perfectly valid reason to tell them to get stuffed.

[spannersatcx]

Makes all the cat A staff happy little noodle slurpers, and the boys n girls that fly who gave the most, get the shaft again.


really, how so? did you give back a higher percentage than I did? or was it just more money, then again you earn more to start with! :mad:

[nitpicker330]

Ahh yeah mate I gave up 4 weeks or roughly 8% of my yearly salary for absolutely nothing. A bigger percentage.

The talk on the street is that we will all be given 2 weeks SLS back.

For those here not so good at maths the cat A staff ( a very big proportion of the total number ) get back DOUBLE what they lost....

Wait for it..............I get back HALF......

If what they say in the street is true?

"more pain and less gain".

So pardon me if I'm pissed......( yet again )

Maybe I'm prematurely pissed!! They could be wrong but knowing this company and how they treat Cockpit crew I suspect they're correct.

[CXtreme]

I see Swire's top Banker at HSBC under performed but is getting his 6 000 000 bonus. To avoid to much embarrassment he will donate "some" to charity.

[spannersatcx]

I know you guys get equally miffed and equally shafted, but you still do a bloody good job. Thnx.

You're welcome, yes I too am miffed as you say.

[Waterskier]

Cathay announced they are loaning Air China Cargo RMB 1,669 Million (or roughly US $245 Million).

They also announced that construction resumed on the new cargo terminal at HKIA which is a HKD $5.5 Billion investment (~US $708 million).

Waiting to hear if there will be an SLS payback....

[club med]

The whole thing makes me sick.

[hongkongpilot]

Cathay announced they are loaning Air China Cargo RMB 1,669 Million (or roughly US $245 Million).

They also announced that construction resumed on the new cargo terminal at HKIA which is a HKD $5.5 Billion investment (~US $708 million).

Waiting to hear if there will be an SLS payback....

All the profit has gone ! No SLS payback. No profit share. Wonderful !:D

[freightdog188]

latest word is: SLS back + X

[AQIS Boigu]

Quote:

Cathay announced they are loaning Air China Cargo RMB 1,669 Million (or roughly US $245 Million).

They also announced that construction resumed on the new cargo terminal at HKIA which is a HKD $5.5 Billion investment (~US $708 million).

Waiting to hear if there will be an SLS payback....
Cathay announced they are loaning Air China Cargo RMB 1,669 Million (or roughly US $245 Million).

They also announced that construction resumed on the new cargo terminal at HKIA which is a HKD $5.5 Billion investment (~US $708 million).

Waiting to hear if there will be an SLS payback....
All the profit has gone ! No SLS payback. No profit share. Wonderful !:D
Guys,

Please don’t jump the gun - yet... just a quick crash course for people who DON'T have an accounting background...

Investments such as planes to Air China, the construction of a new terminal and a cash loan only affect our assets and cash flow - NOT our P&L (profit and loss) statement. Only this statement will determine the success of the company and a possible return of our SLS. Long term investments will be depreciated according to local tax laws and have no immediate effect on P&L (only a long term affect - buildings for example take about 15 to 25 years to depreciate - at least that was what gurus at uni taught me)

I know pilots are in general not good with money but maybe Numero Cruncho and 404 Titan can elaborate a bit more...

AB

P.s.: Another misconception is that "red" figures on our CX Intra welcome page don't necessarily mean we are losing money - they only indicate that we are behind budget (which especially in 2009 contained some very high targets after the successful years of 2007 and 2008).

[mephisto88]

FD188 latest word is: SLS back + X
I guess where staff cat = D
then X = minus10%:ouch:

[Free Flight]

They just can't help themselves!

[deepdiggings]

AQIS Boigu,
I think you are inferring that you have an accounting background. Could you then please advise us then why Cathay insist on rolling the fuel surcharge into revenue? Could you also confirm whether this would be normal accounting practice in other parts of the world, say Australia for example.
In addition could you please confirm how this may impact on the profit to revenue ratio, which in itself was a trigger mechanism for the employee profit share scheme????
Thanks mate.

[CXmonkey]

To AAIGUY

"Spent 3 weeks on the beach and at Disney in FL, US with my kids.

had a ball, and it was priceless."

You may well have enjoyed your SLS with your family and good on you. However, as a CX SO I have tons of time with my young family already. What we lack is the money to do anything other than pay our monthly bills. Spending 3 weeks on holiday (especially at Disney Florida) is a dream that we will have no chance of fulfilling for many, many years to come.

I opted not to take SLS last year not because I wanted to make a statement to the company but because we literally could not afford to make the 'sacrifice'. And no I did not get 1 cent of EFP tho I would have gladly welcomed it.

So from where I stand, I am delighted that SLS is being repaid - it seems only fair to those who took the hit. What my bank account has witnessed however, is that in over two years with the company I haven't received ANY profit share and both 13th month payouts have been halved. Add to that the time to FO upgrade will stretch towards 5 years by the time my number comes up. I am looking at hitting the ceiling of SO increments soon and have run out of answers for my wife on when things will get better.

Enjoy your holidays in the sun. Some of us simply don't get the choice.