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Claire1234
2nd Feb 2010, 04:45
Hi, firstly a quick apology to the moderators, I did ask Air Canada directly about this but got no joy, hence me posting on here.

I'm a frequent flyer pax, I'm a joint Brit/Canadian citizen and have spent a lot of money on Air Canada over the years. Just before a recent flight, I cracked a vertebrae, and have been in a lot of pain. I couldn't put off my trip from LHR to YVR. My doc said I was safe to fly, and I contacted AC to get special assistance at the airport. They were pretty good about this (although they insisted on contacting my doctor themselves with a huge form). However, I was hoping for a free upgrade. I was made redundant last year so I couldn't afford it and didn't have enough airmiles for one. I tried for an upgrade at check-in and at the gate and on the plane but the staff were adamantly against it. This despite First Class literally having 2 people in it.

I don't expect an upgrade as a 'right' but I was honestly in a lot of pain, AC knew my back problem was genuine, and a more comfortable seat would have made a huge difference to me on that 10 hour flight. The hostess did her best with an extra pillow but when we hit turbulence... that did hurt.

My question is - if you can't get a free upgrade when there is a genuine medical reason, when CAN you get one? I am due to fly back from YVR to LHR this Friday 5th (AC854) and I'm wondering if I should just try really hard to scrape together the money for an upgrade, or if there is any other way to get one please? I have pain killers but it's going to be an unpleasant experience for me otherwise.

I've always been impressed by how hard airline staff work; I think they did their best for me and they did get me a bulkhead seat, but the problem is not legroom but it's how padded and comfortable the seat is. I'm just curious as to whether this is an Air Canada 'policy' that there are to be zero free upgrades from now on. Does anyone know please? Are other airlines more lenient in this situation? Thanks very much for your time, I really appreciate it.

Bealzebub
2nd Feb 2010, 08:38
Sorry to sound unsympathetic Claire, but it doesn't sound as if you were "fit to fly" and you obviously knew it. The doctor may have been satisfied in issuing a certificate of fitness to fly, but that is largely for the airlines coverage. The certificate is certainly no guarantee that you will not suffer discomfort or pain, and the sensible judgment must rest with you.

The airline premium classes are commercial products that retail at significant additional cost, and it is not simply in the universal gift of the cabin crew to give them away. I am afraid there is no genuine medical reason for a free upgrade. You either pay for one, or if circumstances permit your insurance company may pay for one. The airline doesn't have to, and won't unless it feels it is in it's commercial interests to do so. To that end it is irrelevant if the higher class has only 2 people in it, or indeed is completely empty.

To answer your question when can you get one? That depends on the airline. Usually for operational reasons, for example when the flight is overbooked. Premium frequent flyer cardholders might also be upgraded free if economy is looking full with the possibility of additional ticket sales.

On another flight or another carrier or another day, you might have got lucky, but in most cases I doubt it. It certainly didn't hurt (and possible that was the only thing that didn't,) to ask, but I think your expectation was unrealistic.

Hartington
2nd Feb 2010, 10:29
Following on from what Bealzebub has said I can't help asking why, if you are a frequent flyer on AC you didn't use some of the miles you have accumulated to upgrade?

AAIGUY
2nd Feb 2010, 10:34
IF you were indeed a FF F'yer of AC, you'd know you CANNOT use mile to upgrade. IF you were Elite or Super Elite (their FF tiers) you'd have certificates.If you're not flying YVR-LHR atleast 9-10 times a year you are not a AC FF flyer. I've held Super Elite status for a few years (over 100,000 miles a year - about 12 YVR-LHR returns a year). As a very frequent FF'er, I would be very upset if the company that was rewarding me , gave away the same benefits to anyone who asked at the gate.

silverelise
2nd Feb 2010, 12:13
My question is - if you can't get a free upgrade when there is a genuine medical reason, when CAN you get one?
I don't believe there is such a thing as a "genuine medical reason" for a free upgrade.
If you have an injury and are being repatriated by your insurance company then they will make appropriate arrangements. For example when I did my knee ligaments skiing and was braced up and on crutches, the insurance company flew me back and bought me three seats on the aircraft so that I could stretch my leg across them.
If it's not an emergency repatriation ie. you are initiating a flight off your own back then I think you just have to cough up or not fly if you are not up to it. I don't think you are entitled to an upgrade, harsh as it sounds.

Load Toad
2nd Feb 2010, 15:03
If you want to sit at the front - pay the money or enter the lottery.

If you are in pain and not in a fit state to fly; don't.

If you want to risk it - supt' t' you innit?

draughtsman99
2nd Feb 2010, 17:17
Great first post - a whinge!

La Pouquelaye
2nd Feb 2010, 17:36
I was hoping for a free upgrade

This is so typical these days: people thinking that the world (and airlines run as profit-making businesses) owe them something for nothing.

Get over yourself. Air Canada is not the British National Health Service.

In the real world you get exactly what you pay for, you cheap scrounger.

Bluejay
2nd Feb 2010, 19:51
La Pouquelaye

In the real world you get exactly what you pay for, you cheap scrounger.

A tad harsh don't you think - I take it that you have never asked for an upgrade when flying else you could also be accused of being a cheap scrounger

La Pouquelaye
2nd Feb 2010, 20:22
No, I have never asked for a "free upgrade". If the carrier wishes to grant me one, of course I do not refuse. Like many frequent travellers I take advantage of FF programmes, and reap the benefits therefrom.

I am in business. I operate that business in order to make money for myself, to be able to reward my employees, to develop the business for the future, and to generate reserves against unforeseen circumstances. In order to do so, I charge a fair price for the services I provide.

I do not hand out my company's services for nothing to any Tom, Dick or (in this case, it seems) Harriet who has the effrontery not only to ask but to think it a right to which they are somehow entitled.

Air transport carriers are in precisely the same position.

Does that explain things clearly enough?

Griff
2nd Feb 2010, 21:24
Claire

Your health and your personal comfort are both matters for you. As you say in your post the ground staff and cabin crew seem to have gone out of their way to help you and make you as comfortable as possible.

I can't think of a single reason why the airline would want to upgrade you in the circumstances you mention in your post.

In fact I can think of three reasons why they might not want to upgrade you, viz:

I tried for an upgrade at check-in,
...at the gate
... and on the plane.

You say "I don't expect an upgrade as a 'right'," but unfortunately that seems to me exactly what you seem to expect.

Sadly I think your expectations were and still are wholly unrealistic. Expect to get what you pay for and be happy with that; should an airline give you something more then that is a huge bonus and be thankful for it.

So for the return journey you will know what the likely pain level will be in economy and you will know how much money you will have to pay to buy the upgrade to get the more comfortable seat you want for a relatively pain free return journey.

The choice is yours.

Finally, as a previous poster mentioned, upgrades are for operational reasons only and are commercial decisions taken by the carrier.
Even if the airline was offering upgrades on your particular flight, just because you are in pain is not a reason for an automatic upgrade and they could just as easily upgrade someone else ahead of you.

Load Toad
2nd Feb 2010, 22:14
There seems these days to have evolved a whole class of people with the attitude that they are entitled to privileges and that asking for something means you have a right to being granted it.

Reality TV has been going on too long.

Claire1234
3rd Feb 2010, 00:05
Hello, thanks for all your replies - though I must admit I found some of them rather harsh! I'm sorry that I what I've written seems to have been taken the wrong way. I don't watch reality TV and I genuinely wasn't "expecting" an upgrade, just simply really *hoping* for one. There is a difference. I'm sure there must have been times when those reading this have wanted something or other and have asked for it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that! I have been extremely polite and courteous to airline staff at all times, and I have huge respect for them - working long hours for low pay etc. If I didn't think they were wonderful (I do), I wouldn't keep spending my hard-earned cash on their wages! Maybe I'm not a millionaire who flies First Class 10 times a year, but I'm still somebody who contributes towards keeping AC in the air! Because of me, many of my friends and relatives have flown more too. And I've always recommended AC.

It does seem clear from your replies that upgrades seem to only be given when the airline has oversubscribed the seats. I guess that's fair enough, I really just wanted to know. So thanks for clarifying. Maybe it's obvious to you guys but it wasn't obvious to me, an outsider.

I'm going to see if I can buy an orthopaedic pillow and/or delay my flight back. Yes I do take responsibility for my discomfort level and will pack more painkillers too. It's a great idea about contacting my insurance company - wish I had thought of it - probably too late now. Hopefully nothing like this will ever happen to me again but I'll bear it in mind for in the future. Good advice and I hugely appreciate it.

All the best to you all and thank you kindly for your time.

boredcounter
3rd Feb 2010, 01:07
Pay the money to upgrade.

Airlines take so much flak for the delays etc and have to pay compensation.

If the Airline presented a 'tech aircraft, with a damaged back" you would not board it. Just because you have a known defect with your back, should they board you? and upgrade you?

Pay the money for a fully refundable ticket, in case you cannot fly. Guess what, if you dont fly, they will refund you! Except you have had a go here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Final 3 Greens
3rd Feb 2010, 03:33
Claire1234

As someone who pays for and travels in business class about 100 times per year, airlines are some of the worst service providers I have to deal with, beaten only by utility companies in customer unfriendliness.

I have had my flights cancelled and been dumped without support in cities thousands of kms from home, denied boarding due to the airlines inability to sell the correct number of seats on the plane etc etc etc One airline even gave me an economy class boarding pass without having the courtesy to tell me I have beedn downgraded.

And that is paying for premium class.

Unfortunately for you, you pay for economy travel and this registers even lower on their radar, as most Y class travellers are fare sensitive and disloyal. You fly 9-10 times per year and this income to AC is probably 0.0000008% of their income (I made that up), so the company doesn't share your view that you are helping them to keep flying. I believe that airlines are wrong to take this view, but there you go.

The problem you have is that the airline regards you as a person it has transactions with, not a relationship with.

On personal level, you may find the cabin crew very nice, but the 'corporation' does not recognise you as a potential source of regular and high income, so you are processed as a number. The same happens to me with airlines where I am not recognised - you would think that paying a large sum of money for ticket would buy great service, but sadly ths is non sequitur.

For you, I am afraid that you need to be realistic and reflect on very low cost per km fares, which is what this business approach delivers.

I do hope that you have a more pleasant passage back home.

Welcome to PPrune and don't take the other comments to heart.

AAIGUY
3rd Feb 2010, 07:56
Sorry Claire, wasn't trying to be mean.

Check out www.flyertalk.com for secrets on how to fly biz and F for less money than the average person, or which airlines to choose for free upgrades. Good Luck..

TightSlot
3rd Feb 2010, 11:03
The problem you have is that the airline regards you as a person it has transactions with, not a relationship with.
I have to say that this is one of the more eloquent and accurate comments that I have read recently, accurately summing up the situation - and one that I shall plagiarise shamelessly in the future (and without giving you credit F3G - I shall pass it off as my own!)



:)