Ryan Air pilots

[acepilotmurdock]

I would be interested to know of any recently qualified Ryan pilots. This is not a thread to beat up on Ryan or debate SSTR. I am just wanting to know how much flying the newly qualified 737 jock are getting each month. And how this reflects in monthly salary and basing?
Thanks in advance to all and happy landings
Ace
:ok:

[acepilotmurdock]

Nothing???????? :confused:

[LAX]

Expect 650 to 700hrs a year as an fo. Rostering are good at dividing up the hours between people. Fo's at smaller/quieter bases can expect to be sent to other bases on occassions to raise their yearly average.

Capts fly 850 to 900hrs a year.

[checkxp]

Hey just wondering where you got this figure from, since you're in LA. I don't want to be mean, I just want to trust the info I read.

Thanks

[LAX]

This a rumour network, however, if you did your homework on RYR properly there are many people, from many countries and many backgrounds working there.

[eagerbeaver1]

The total rostered flying you receive depends on many factors, unit cost (how much Ryanair pay brookfield for you services) base, seasonal requirements,training requirements, sickness, can you fly with a newly promoted captain, etc etc.

A new guy can expect 600 hours at this horrendous time for aviation, but that is just my opinion.

I will do at least 800 hours this year - but I am not a co-pilot.

Good luck, but be prepared to be totally alone with you worries.

Kudos to you chaps who stick it out with all that debt.

[Mikehotel152]

From the day the 2-month long type-rating begins until line checked takes upto 6 months. Expect about 3 to 3500 euros for this entire period.

Meanwhile, you pay for your own hotels, B&B, food, taxis/busses/petrol, other travel expenses, uniform, airport IDs, etc.


You'll earn a lot more in your first year at RYR than newly qualified lawyers and accountants, and they pay for their own 'uniform', food and travel too.

In addition, Ryanair contract pilots are entitled to set-off work related expenses against tax liability and generally pay little tax in the first year due to the cost of the Type Rating and associated training costs.

MH152

[timzsta]

I am thinking of doing it. I have put eight years hard working into getting a fATPL as a self improver and four years as an FI. The industry has changed massively since I started out and the only way to get that a job now seems to be to pay for it.

It sucks, I don't make the rules of the game, I am just playing it.

[hi9h_fly3r]

Unfortunately that is the name of the game. Lots of people before you have taken the bait and many more will follow, me included. Good luck with your application.

[acepilotmurdock]

It's the old saying "Don't hate the player....Hate the game!" Again, to all those people, young wannabe's who have been trying to get into the industry don't want to spend 40k to get into FR....However when other airlines want experience, so you can get a job there, the only other place to get the experience to get another job is through FR.
Nature of the beast at the moment, we would all love to have been sponsored, and have our TR payed for while receiving a wage at the same time, but those days are gone. Good luck one and all
Ace
:ok:

[MVE]

:ugh: FR is not the only way!

Flybe dashes ahead with new pilot recruitment

Leading regional airline signs on 16 new pilots fresh from leading flight schools

Flybe, one of Europe’s largest regional airlines and the UK’s number one domestic carrier, has welcomed 16 new pilots from its own sponsored pilot recruitment programme to undergo a familiarisation/induction course for its Q400 fleet, included amongst which are three recruits from the South West.

The intake flies in the face of current global aviation activity where many airlines are shedding rather than hiring pilots as a direct result of the economic climate. Flybe’s programme operates in conjunction with a number of training schools across Europe and demonstrates its commitment to high quality training as it continues to recruit from flight schools that include Flight Training Europe, Jerez, Cabair College of Air Training at Cranfield and Oxford Aviation Academy.

Flybe’s unique relationship with its partner Flight Training Schools brings hope to many potential pilots looking for the opportunity to realise their dreams.

Ian Baston, Chief Pilot for Flybe comments; “Flybe seeks out the best pilots in the industry to help us continue deliver a first-class flight experience. To this end, we have built solid relationships with a number of leading flight schools across Europe and are always on the look-out for new talent to bolster our teams. We’re looking forward to helping our 16 new pilots embark on a long and successful career with us.”

Mike Rutter, Flybe’s Chief Commercial Officer, comments; “We are delighted to be strengthening our flight team with the recruitment of the new Pilots. It’s great to know that we have some of the best talent in the industry coming on board to help us to grow the Flybe brand. At a time when other airlines are tightening their belts and feeling the impact of tough trading conditions, Flybe continues to recruit.”

[acepilotmurdock]

Check their website... We have no immediate requirement for pilots. I know friends who are Flybe cadets that finished last October, who are waiting to join, and been told will be MAYBE this year, more likely next year. Thats 9 of them...as well as another 6 or 7 from the same school this year. Then Flybe also have the MPL people qualifying this year and other sponsored cadets.
So Flybe won't be an option really!!

[BoeingMEL]

..at least get the name right! :ugh:

[jiffajaffa]

Funny how "Crookfield" a.k.a Brookfield are still telling new joiners there gonna get 850hrs per year!! Reality is 600-650hrs, everyone is in the same boat and if your a newbie coming in be prepared for it.. some are under the impression that 850 is the norm!!!

Expect to be kept busy during the Line Training with possibly no standbys and a sporadic roster working around availability of LTC's.

After line training and when line checked hours decrease and standbys increase this is a FACT.

Expect to fly more during the summer and less during the winter with a possibility of 2 or 3 consecutive standbys a week on occasions during winter months.

Also expect your roster pattern to be shared with a cadet if you are in a training base (which most are) meaning you will be safety pilot getting the normal rate until the cadet is safety pilot released, then you will be put on standby possibly for 5 days of your week on as the cadet shares your roster.

Remember as a new joiner you will need to be trained the same as everyone else when they join, however when your training is complete understand that new cadets will be entering the system and they will also need to be trained therefore sharing your roster is the norm..



JJ

[Tampicotb9]

Could someone inform me if it is easier to get hired as cadet if I do the MCC at SAA.
If I go to the SAA website, the say that the preferred way to enter the Ryanair type qualification program is through the Ryanair MCC course.

[turbine100]

I know people who joined and did not do the Ryanair MCC.

Shame the website does not tell you what you actually get paid :)

[Piltdown Man]

...generally pay little tax in the first year due to the cost of the Type Rating and associated training costs.

Is this true? And can you carry this forward. My understanding was that the cost vocational training was not an allowable item of expenditure to offset against tax (although I think it should be) or is this allowable because of a self-employed status? I'm curious.

PM

[turbine100]

Why does Ryanair ask to transfer your license to Ireland after 6 months? If you have a EASA license, do you really need to do this?

[Callsign Kilo]

The initial poster asked about hours once on line. You can't and never will be able to put a precise figure on it so NEVER ever budget on a particular number of hours per annum. There are too many variables which invariably lead to an average of anywhere between 600 to 750 hours per year. Too many to go into I'm afraid, however a few guys on here have already touched on these.

Accept that firstly you, the SSTR, are a source of income for Ryanair. Get this around your head and then you will understand why you are flying anything between 600-750 hours per year instead of the regulated (and once the norm in FR) 900 hours.

This eats a load of people up (generally the ones who believe they will fly A). 900 hours, B). be based where they want to be and finally C) have a command in 4 years).

Unfortunately 'A' doesn't happen any more and probably never will for FOs. 'B' is down to luck if anything, however for many it will generally happen after a year or two; providing you keep your nose clean! C) with rostered hours dropping the years to the left seat are going to increase. O'Leary has already spoken about running the airline for cash and paying out the shareholders. It has to happen some time!

[McNulty]

Acepilotmurdock,

Were you not a flybe ptc cadet previously?

[stansdead]

Your statement is how it's ALWAYS WORKED mate in just about any airline.....


Expect to be kept busy during the Line Training with possibly no standbys and a sporadic roster working around availability of LTC's. Yes, well that's because there's no point in you being in standby, because you're useless until checked out...and frankly, until checked you're unimportant. That's true in BA, VS, CX, EK.... all airlines are the same. As a useless 200 Hour Cadet. Until line checked as proficient line FO.

Expect to fly more during the summer and less during the winter with a possibility of 2 or 3 consecutive standbys a week on occasions during winter months. So, just like Charter? Try 2 or 3 weeks of standby in a row....


If you want to complain, then fine, but :eek:check what life's really like as a Pilot first (for those with an enquiring mind...it's sh1t). As I've already told AcePilotMurdock.

[timzsta]

Four years an an FI and I do another job to boot to pay my bills. I just about cover everything every month. They way I see it the only way into an airline now is to SSTR. It's not going to change. It is to big a revenue stream.

Right now I feel I might as well got a loan for £30k and be skint flying a 737 instead of a 152. And if it all goes wrong you go to the magistrates court, declare bankruptcy and the banks don't get their money back. It's a dog eat dog world.

[IrishJetdriver]

Make sure you can get the money before you need it, but don't sign up for the loan until the Ryanair job is in the bag. Just having the money is not the way you get in. It's not easy. However, if you do get in then you'll be way ahead on salary over instructing before too long.

[acepilotmurdock]

Yup I was a Flybe cadet.

Ace

[go around flaps15]

What happened? I'm not having a go. Just interested.

[acepilotmurdock]

Failed to get a 90% average on the ATPL exams
:ouch:

[go around flaps15]

What an absolute load of crap. Sorry but just because you dont attain a 90 percent average in those god foresaken exams doesn't mean you should be deemed unsuitable to fly a Dash for Flybe.


Have you got fixed up since?

[acepilotmurdock]

Nope still looking....all first time passes at skills tests and atpl exams..however I am like all the other FATPL people, its tough times...hope we all get jobs ,anyone who has got there deserve a job for all the work put in.

Good luck to all
Ace
:ok:

[McNulty]

I'm sorry to hear that Ace, was that 90% pass rate part of the deal before you signed up? I totally agree that its nonsense that you should need a 90% pass rate considering that 90% of the content of the atpl exams is absolute waffle anyway.

[acepilotmurdock]

No we were told Flybe would like 85% but was not set in stone, although i was nt really bothered about that. I did my best at them to get the best result I could, and achieved that with first time passes and a very good average. I am not naturally gifted at exams so have to work very hard to gain reasonable exam results.

So could I get a 90% average if I sat the exams again... honestly probably not. I am a great believer that things happen for a reason, cliche as that is I do believe that.

I was also a victim of circumstance...excess pilots in the job market, the airlines can pick and choose the best, and if it was your own business you would do the same. As posted previously these are difficult times and I am sure most of us choose this path because we are just drawn to the skies. Again good luck to all out there chasing there dream.
Ace
:ok:

[G SXTY]

Personally I can't see the point of chopping people on that basis. I'd have thought that CPL/IR training history and instructors' reports would be far better indicators, but then again, it's not my train set.

With the determination you've already shown to get this far, I've no doubt you'll make it to the right hand seat sooner or later.

Best of luck mate.

[nick14]

To the original poster,

I have been through the TR course last year at EMA. Started line training in September in Marseille flew 27 hours in 2 weeks. I was then moved back to East mids and flew 70 odd hours in october. I was line checked in November and flew 47 hours. I was then given 2 weeks off and flew 21 hours in december. January was busy with a week out of base and totalling 91 hours. February was average with 64 hours and I now have my month off.

Its good work, busy at times but pays very well when you are.

Cheers:ok:

[ONCALL]

nick14 thanks for sharing your info. we need a bit of optimism in the midst of this doom and gloom. cheers!

[nick14]

Maverick,

I have no delusions that I am at the hands of the rostering department but considering I am at EMA which is a big training base and have been out of training since mid november my hours have been pretty decent.

If you look at my average number of hours its about 60 which is pretty good.

I am a sensible enough to plan for my month off by saving and forward planning. As for the pension and the rest, I sort all that out myself and have a choice of everyone in the market. The out of base payment covers the extras it costs you to reposition etc.

As for the rest of the costs, they are tax deductible so it heps. I have retained 85% of my wage minimum every month.

If you work on 650/700 hrs for the year you will be on the right lines.

Im interested to hear about how your wage has dropped by 12000?

[bounce'em all]

maverick,
what you're saying truly is astonishing !

Please, let me get this straight: from now on they'll only offer you a €28000 contract irrespective of seniority ? and you can expect no "overtime" or extras on top of that ? and even people who joined before 2009 actually had their salary slashed as you say ?

thanks for your time.

[dire straits]

"Overtime" in FR, that was funny! I'm permanent FR, last yr 630 hrs , this year happy to make 600. Makes a huge difference to 900 when we are paid per hour.

[zerotohero]

Also the 1000Euro a month line training is the old deal, new one been in place for a while now where you are on the 55euro an hour line training less 4.50 sim charge then a further 15 or 20 euro an hour line training fee, i think its 35.50euro a block hour while line training (could be 40.50?) once safety pilot released, 12min - 20 sectors average.

[Callsign Kilo]

This is the complete, unequivocal Ryanair cliche fellas.

Cpt X who is based at Y and gets paid Z, yet Cpt U who is based at V gets paid W. He does the same job, flies the same aircraft etc etc.

Whilst on the other hand BRK FO Number 1 at the sunshine base which has just seen its fleet double in the last 3 months is flying his socks off and is getting paid close to what Cpt U takes home on a Ryanair contract. Yet BRK FO Number 2 at the cold, wet and windy UK training base has been doing 3 to 4 STBYs a week whilst capacity is cut over the winter and an ever increasing line of cadets and OCCs move through the crewroom.

Is anyone surprised that there isn't a seniority system, a contracted amount of hours to be flown, a clearly defined salary structure? Its all guess work and the luck of the draw. New joiners take note please. I'm not knocking it, I enjoy it, it has been good to me so far. However the cold hard fact is this - Ryanair owe you hee haw and they will be very quick to inform you this little fact. Unless we were to all stand up and say we won't accept this any longer then nothing will change. And quite frankly this will never happen as the pilot body is too big and too diverse. I believe it was dubbed 'divide and conquer!' by BALPA

[checkxp]

This saddens me. How can people let things sink so low. I guess this is the biggest problem with liberalism. Although I've got quite liberal views, I think states should regulate the pays of Pilots, to keep the quality of the job high to avoid disasterous accidents.
Nobody that has major political influences seems to see the big picture here... how do we elect them again?

[MVE]

You reap what you sow fellas.

If you come out of training now get any job to pay your way and keep current until things improve, don't sell your souls to the devil that is Ryanair or Easyjet.

[jupilair]

Maverick,

I am really interested to know where you got your info's from, you may be correct but I heard nothing about that before. Are you actually flying for Ryanair?
I know that nowadays you get a 10% cut when you request a new base. But it's base on the standard salary for FO and CPT for this specific base. Also I know that you have a 10% cut during 6 months after a CPT upgrade.
And on top of that we have a 5 year pilots agreement.
Once again, I am surprised that I heard nothing, as usually FR crews are really fast to spread news like this one.

Regards,

[D O Guerrero]

Maverick said "there is no pay for the first 3 to 4 months from start of type rating, then approx E1000/mth for the next 3 months. Then you're on 55/hr minus 4.50 taken from every hour you work which apparently pays for your 6-monthly sim checks i.e recurrency. FOs on 55/hr can expect to stay on that for 1500hrs which will take 2 years."

The actual facts are:
40.5E per hour until the end of the month of Line check at the end of Line Training.
Then 55.5E per hour until 500 Hours.
Then 75.5E per hour until 1500 hours.
Then 80.5E per hour, post 1500 hours. Which is 64,400E pa even if you only fly 800hours.
If you are out of base after the end of Line Training, add 20E per hour.

If you don't think about the 4.5 E/hr sim fee, then it doesn't matter does it?! You're arguments about the race to the bottom don't really hold water. You can't blame the new joiners, its as simple as that. You'd do the same if you were in the same position. But then again, this debate has been done to death already.

[jupilair]

To Maverick

The "note" to "new joiners" is that the PAY TERMS AND CONDITIONS of all Ryanair pilots is on a race to the bottom!! By new joiners NOT TAKING HEED OF THIS, THEN GOING AHEAD AND JOINING, they are hastening these pay cuts, and hurting existing pilots terms and conditions because all that is seen by management is that there is an endless queue of pilots willing to work for less and less. Thats the message!

I hear so many potential new joiners say "oh i'd almost work for free just to get a job" .....They dont listen to what you are saying!

Hahahaha, Is it the same person who back in 2006 was saying that he would do anything for a job and went for the SSTR with Ryanair.
By the way how can you be permanent FR if you have done your training in 2007 ?
Also 40 hrs is very low, I never heard of so low hours by month. Personally I have an average 80-85 hrs a month, and I will hit the 860 hrs in April.

[matkat]

When, I read threads like this how grateful I am I went into engineering instead of flying. Approx 10 years ago licensed/certifying staff earned around the same basic as a capt. now it seems a capt. is earning much less. Good luck guy's.

[Callsign Kilo]

What is the point that I am devoid of exactly? Maybe because I am not beating your drum of persecution and punishment then the points that I make are deemed invalid?

I'm a realist maverick, your head is up in the clouds with the guys who think this place should be some sort of utopia! I sit next to guys who come across like Ryanair owes them something. And while I can sympathise with anyone who has been here long term and therefore witnessed the prolonged decline in their terms, I'm not too stupid to realise that the whole kit and kaboodle that makes this place what it is were always determined to ensure that this is the way it would eventually go.

And you can talk all you like about standing up and fighting your corner. I personally know quite a few that were pulled through the mill in a war between Ryanair and IALPA. And with every one I show enormous respect, because unlike the majority who devote their time to bitching, moaning and blaming others for sitting on their arse, they actually took the risk and put their heads above the paraphit. And on the broad scheme of things did it change the nature of the beast?

You, me and any other sinner won't stop people joining this outfit. However we can present them with a picture of what to expect. You have got to be pragmatic about it and accept that while it can be kind, it can also be cruel. You also better get used to the fact that you won't change anything because it has went well beyond changing!

And to answer your question, I knew all of this before I joined. And I still did. And I'm still glad I did. Sure there have been some right thorns in the ass, but as somebody rightly suggested 'you reap what you sow.'

So Mav, I'll say two things. You too were aware of what it was like when you joined, but you still did. You also know where the door is!

[Callsign Kilo]

With all due respect, what do you think i am doing. Letting "wannabees" and other pilots know what they are getting themselves in for.

Your picture has no balance, however I see that it has gone far beyond that stage. You are being eaten up inside and to be honest for every day that goes by, you are only going to get worse. You make a very interesting comment about morale Maverick. Morale seems to vary a lot from one pilot to another in Ryanair. To possibly imply that morale is completely rock bottom within the 2000+ tin can drivers that we have is a fallacy. And the reason being is because Ryanair have created to be like that. The morale that you talk of relates to you and the others that feel like you. I have flown with one or two who could easily fall into this category. It is evident by the way that they approach the job that they have been pushed one way and pulled another and as a result it has become overwhelming. They treat the whole thing with contempt and in turn their own operation suffers. The old saying 'And you mistake me for someone who actually gives a sh1t' has been used on numerous occasions. They don't care what kind of negative attention they attract because they are happy to attract it. Unfortunately they also couldn't give a damn about the careers of those who are unfortunate to fly with them on the day when SOPs once again go out the window.

Now I'm not stereotyping you from what i said above. I accept there are many who have suffered much at the hands of Ryanair. I'm in no position to talk about terms and conditions, dignity and respect however you seemingly are and you make it your agenda. Unfortunately I think you are flogging a dead horse with this lot and in the process flogging yourself twice as hard. It isn't for you.

[SID PLATE]

Maverick lad!.... Have you run out of prozac?
The Ryanair style of management is what it is, and will not change until the the triumviate at the top, M'OL, D O'B and that awfully nice EW either retire or are replaced.
I'm afraid you'll have to work round it, and live with it.
You do get free water though .....

[Desk-pilot]

Guys,

I see mention of 28000 euro basic pay for F/O - do I take it that this is in addition to the block hour rates quoted? So for example is it true that a 1000 hour F/O flying say 600 hrs per year would earn:

600x75Euro = E45000
28000 Euro basic = E28000

Total E73000 - if so this sounds quite good or have I got this wrong?

Just curious,

Thanks,

Desk-pilot

[Callsign Kilo]

Desk-Pilot. Maverick quotes the current basic salary for an FO who is contracted by Ryanair. E28000 plus sector pay (unsure what the sector pay rate is at the moment as I am BRK)

BRK (Brookfield) contract for an FO with 1000hrs on type is E75 gross (70.50 net after E4.50 recurrent training is deducted) per block hour.

Anything between 600 (according to pprune) and 700-750 hours (typical at my base) is the average for a Ryanair FO.

[Hernando]

Aside from the usual slogging match on the Ryanair issue,

I'm interested which bases are the best and why? Which are the ones which most newbies ask for, and which ones aren't very popular. Or is it totally random?
Is there such thing as a training base? Do certain bases fly more hours than others?

Thanks - you may continue!

[Callsign Kilo]

Which bases are best and why?
Depends what you're after? Doesn't mean you'll get it.
What bases do most newbees ask for?
Generally the ones close to where they live.
What ones are popular?
Sunshine bases, bases close to where the majority of the population live, bases close to where you live, bases with a high demand for transfers in but a low demand for transfers out.
Which bases aren't popular?
Generally the base where they decide to send you, contrary to your request. With over 2000 pilots they don't, can't and won't accomodate everyone. Lady luck plays a big part. Countless Ryanair pilots (including myself) commute or 'jumpseat' for their 5 days of duty.
Is there such thing as a training base?
Larger bases like STN and DUB can be branded as training bases. However they are not officially labelled as such. In general more training may be conducted at these bases because there are more LTCs and the route network is more varied. However training can and is conducted at any base where there is a LTC. And the majority of bases have LTCs. When I was in training a few years back it was Pisa. Others I know went to Prestwick, Bergamo, Alicante and Hahn, along with the usual quota to Stansted and Dublin. It varies.
Do certain bases fly more hours than others?
Yes. There will be 41 bases by the end of June. Some will simply be busier than others. Some will have less FOs than others. Some will train more than others. The list of variables goes on and on. Again lady luck if you catch my drift.

[go around flaps15]

If you want decent hours this summer, Faro, Malaga, Alicante are prime examples. Anywhere the post card has a shiny view.

Obvious.


But true.

[thunderbird-1]

Then 80.5E per hour, post 1500 hours. Which is 64,400E pa even if you only fly 800hours

Does the 80.5€/h apply straight away if you join with more than 1500h or you need to do 1500h in FR?

Once you have a base, is it not too difficult to be transfert to an other (ex: I have been in STN for 2 years, I would like to go to Pisa) or you will be at the bottom of the list after all new joiner?

thanks

[Callsign Kilo]

I can't see you joining as an FO with 1500hrs on type, however if you did you would start on E80.50. Unfortunately Ryanair are only interested in non-rated cadets (for obvious $£$£$ reasons). This is a bit of a let down because there is a gap in experience levels which in the end will put greater reliance on DECs joining. All fine and well when Ryanair exist in an employers market. That won't last forever, however neither will the expansion. With average hours per year dropping, years to command for a year one cadet are increasing. This will only increase further when the shareholders get their pay day. Interesting times for those joining now who expect to be in the LHS in 4 to 5 years!

As for 800hrs per year on 80.50 per block hour - can't see it. Sorry.

As for base transfers, there is no list. Not for transfers, not for training positions, not even car parking passes. They happen, however the only process in place seems to be good fortune and subtle persistence. That, alongside not creating a name for yourself, seems to work. Typical waiting around periods seem to go anything between 6 to 18 months depending on the base. Some longer - much longer. Can often depend on your position ie Cpt or FO

[thunderbird-1]

Not 1500h on type but more than 1500h total, I am just curious, lets say someone coming from TP operator or light jet, would he be on the 80.5€/h?

Even at the minimum yearly hours (600 as per this topic) it is 48 300€ (4025€/month) net before tax wich is not great for flying that much but not bad.
I understood that there is no pension or insurance taken from this salary, you have to make your own. Only the sim, uniform etc..are already removed from your salary.

I guess there is no pay rise for FO once you get this 80.5 even if your're stuck 5 years on the right seat? Only solution is to upgrate cpt. And once you are captain,what €/hours rate you get? Is there any increment or do you stay on the same salary till the end of your career??

Thank you.

[Hernando]

Thanks for the info CSK.

T Bird..

The 500 and 1500 hour thresholds, and their payrises are for hours gained on Ryan aircraft during 'employment' with Ryanair..

At least that was what I read in the contract!

[zerotohero]

Correct

the new contract clearly says pay increase with hours on Ryanair aircraft.

you could have 20,000 hr on 737 - 777- 747 and anything else, if you have never been a captain you start as an F/O on the lower rate,,, you may make captain quicker I guess and skip straight from 60.5euro to the 130?euro an hour captain

but as stated on FR website,, no hiring of experienced F/O's anyway

[BALLSOUT]

Another thing to consider these days is that any cadets joining now will have little chance of a command for a long time. The fleet expansion will be complete within 18 months when 300 aircraft is reached. the fleet will then start to reduce in size, and promotion will only be into "dead mans shoes" I think long term (15 years) in the right seat could soon become the norm. Many may never even see the prospect of a command, with so many F/O's all of similar age and experience, and so many young captains.

[zumzum]

It depends on how many guys will leave. As soon the market will pick up again people will start looking for better contracts somewhere else giving the new joiners fas commands. I left after 3 months...

Anyway, the more i read about this contracts ( 64000 an year) the more I want to cry. It's almost half the money I make in ezy. And I consider it not good enough still.

zz

[BALLSOUT]

zumzum, I wish I had your optimism. I think the days of fast, or even commands at all for many are at an end. I agree, if things pick up, some will leave making way for a few commands. Ryanair already have over 1000 first officers, it will be a long time before the company can offer anything like that many promotions, if ever. the situation is no better at easy or anywhere else. As I said, people starting out now have little or no chance of a command at any time in the foreseeable future, if ever!

[zerotohero]

I think to say never for a command is a little harsh,, people have to retire at some point, the problem facing guys like me at 32 is I guess I fly with captains younger than me and there are a lot of F/O's with more hours younger than me, so the waiting game is not on my side!

but I am close to hours for Command now so maybe ill get a shot at it here, then reevaluate where to go in aviation, if stay in the game at all?

[BALLSOUT]

zertohero, you are right. You probably have a fair chance if you are near to hours now. I expect there will probably be about 200 more f/o's promoted before the end of the deliveries, but after that they will become a rare event. In the old days, it was common to fly the right seat for a long time before you got a chance at command, and it seems these days are back.
Even if and when the industry picks up, it is full of young captains who aren't retiring anytime soon. Mind you, in 30 years or so when all these guys reach retirement age, there will be a big shortage then.

[Myster Mask]

Hello gents,
I have a question for BRK pilots holding a non-irish JAR licence.
I received an email from BRK stating I will have to pay if I don't convert my licence.
That doesn't seem legal, as I fully comply with my contract.

Anybody in this case? What are your plans regarding this?

[tocamak]

Anyway, the more i read about this contracts ( 64000 an year) the more I want to cry. It's almost half the money I make in ezy. And I consider it not good enough still

I may be reading that incorrectly but it comes across as 64000 x nearly 2 is still not good enough for an F/O.

[captjns]

Myster Mask asks...

Hello gents,
I have a question for BRK pilots holding a non-irish JAR licence.
I received an email from BRK stating I will have to pay if I don't convert my licence.
That doesn't seem legal, as I fully comply with my contract.

Anybody in this case? What are your plans regarding this?

Is the IAA charging Brookfield the non-Irish license penalty?

If not then you need to enquire with Brookfield as to the purpose of the fine.

[Myster Mask]

They say Ryr wants all its pilots to hold an irish licence for administrative reasons (easier to manage expiry dates, Ryr TRE can sign off a TR renewal, etc...).
I'm quite sure the IAA doesn't charge anything if you don't hold a JAR licence, work in contract with a broker for an irish company.

[D O Guerrero]

Its just an administration penalty to discourage people from holding non-IAA licences. To be fair the the airline, the multitude of different nationalities working at Ryanair means signing off entries in licences from 30 or 40 different nations becomes an administrative nightmare.

[ei-flyer]

So how old is the youngest 'known' Captain in FR?

Before people start saying "Technically they could be 21!" That is just hearsay, so please just those who know somebody... I'm imagining it's probably around the 21-23 mark, but can anyone back this up?

[captjns]

DOG says...

Its just an administration penalty to discourage people from holding non-IAA licences. To be fair the the airline, the multitude of different nationalities working at Ryanair means signing off entries in licences from 30 or 40 different nations becomes an administrative nightmare.

Why??? Pilots divided by the number of TRE equals the number of endorsements. Copies have to be sent to the training department and filed away. After all, we are talking about one piece of paper per pilot. Perhaps the penalty should be redirected to planting trees instead... don't you think?

If the IAA has no heart burn over the issue then why should FR?

[BALLSOUT]

You pay the fine of £500 or E500 per year,even if you hold a JAR licence issued from another state than the IAA. just another way of making money.

[captplaystation]

I always thought it was a bit unjustified, but after the recent Turkish/Swedish "whoops no licence" :( incident in Corendon, I have a bit more sympathy for their cause.

[Callsign Kilo]

Ryanair will ensure one way or another that their pilots (whether they be contracted or BRK) will be registered with the IAA. Financial penalties are to be applied to both sets if they refuse to abide. I suppose it depends in how much you value your licence with your issuing authority in the end? I also see that any CUs or training positions are stalled if the IAA licence isn't in possession.

I agree that with over 2000 pilots with over 25 nationalities, licensing could become a real headache. The Turkish airline with the Swedish crew member flying around for 13 years without any valid qualification indeed highlights this.
Yet I also agree it is a bit hard to take, especially if you hold a blue or green CAA issued book which any IAA TRE can endorse. However there won't be a rule for one and another for the rest! It's either IAA or salary deduction it appears.

Still, have to wonder. The IAA make a nice little earner out of...well..doing very little. I wonder what Ryanair achieve from the IAA in return??

[Myster Mask]

I've just been told that each time a Ryr TRE signs off a licence, he does it on behalf of the IAA, and the company has to pay for that....

Now the question is: what does the company get in return?
More TRE authorizations for its TRTO?